Random Running Questions

The Black Oil wrote: »

What's a good way* of tackling hills training so you get the benefit from it i.e. it'll pay off in a race (or generally) and you won't have too worry too much?

*As in, is it sufficient to do what Youtube says?

Run tall for your glutes and hammys and lift your knees. Don't lean into it.

Random question incoming….

I have the 16 week Asics training plan that I am looking to start in a couple weeks on the run up to Barcelona.

I am trying to work it around my commitments work / family etc and plan it out in the calendar.

I am moving the Long run which seems to be on Sundays (understandable) to midweek on a Tuesday or Wednesday (I want to run home from work on these days), should I be moving everything around to suit this or is it just important I have the next day as a rest day?

I fully understand I may be overthinking this.

Enduro wrote: »

Reading this question reminded me of this article. Ignore the ultra runnning bit... the key point is to get beyond over-dependence on the micro-specifics of a training plan.

Your plan is generic and not specifically made for you by one on one coaching... vary away to you hearts content. Just aim to broadly hit the underlying objectives of the plan. Understand the "whys" rather than the "whats" of the plan.

The article is what I needed to read! Thank you

Had similar thoughts around resting heart rate. The morning test thing won't work for me, you're supposed to test after waking naturally. Can't remember the last time I woke naturally. Will probably be another 15 years before I do.

Is it your best/lowest that you're looking for? Would it be possible to get that info by wearing the strap constantly for a couple of days?

The Black Oil wrote: »

Yeah, pretty much. Taking it three days in a row and an average from that is apparently another way of determining RHR.

Is it average or lowest though?

The Black Oil wrote: »

Trying to get a handle on heart rate stuff. I use a Garmin 235. It seems one way to go is to measure your resting rate after waking up in the morning. Well, I was woke up at 3am last night and didn't get much sleep after that, so I thought it would be inaccurate try and gauge it on that basis. Broken sleep is fairly typical for me. Is the basic approach - get your RHR, then do something solid to get your max, like a flat out 5k? Another rule of thumb seems to be to use 220 and subtract your age, leaving 183 as max for me (on paper). My details in Garmin Connect are correct - DOB, etc. I think I'm spending too much time in zone 3 at times, but dunno how accurate this either as my HR settings may be off, but as from the stuff above I'm not sure how to fix it. Got the strap right now so it won't fall down any more, hopefully.

1st off the 220 minus age is complete BS.
Why would you think that taking RHR at 3am etc after broken sleep would not be an accurate reflection of RHR ?.
RHR can fluctuate based on a few thing's but not limited to, doing a hard session and not recovered fully to coming down with some type "bug" or illness.
My advice is to take your HR 5 or 6 morning a week any try establish a "BASELINE" RHR. This can be done manually by taking your pluse for 1 minute. Once you have a base established you can better monitor and plan sessions around your recovery. Example of which would be, You had planned a hard run/session on Tuesday but your RHR is 15% above baseline, then i would advise NOT doing the session that day. It's important to remember that the body doesn't really acknowledge the days of the week !.

Ceepo wrote: »

What time would you run a 5k or 10k in approx?

I note it says based upon a 5k time of 24 mins. My pb from Park run is about 21 /22 mins from years ago

A few weeks back I ran a 10k just under 50 mins. Think my pb from 2017 is 48 mins

BKWDR wrote: »

I note it says based upon a 5k time of 24 mins. My pb from Park run is about 21 /22 mins from years ago

A few weeks back I ran a 10k just under 50 mins. Think my pb from 2017 is 48 mins

You have to leave aside what happened years ago:P
Your recent 10k time is 50 mins, your run today was 30 seconds per k slower than your 10k race pace, this for me is way to fast if you were trying to do an easy run today and would seem about right that it was in Z4. Z4 is somewhere around Lactate threshold.

Ceepo wrote: »

While accuracy is important for sure, its also important to remember that HR is not black and white, it can fluctuate daily and a for a variety of different reasons, even having a cup of coffee can elevate HR.
That is why there are zones, but even then this not absolute, it even can get more complicated depending on what zones you are following, Coggan, Friel, Garmin etc

Is that not the point of HR training over using pace ranges though, the fluidity of it?

You know that x bpm is marathon effort so you run at that heart rate/effort, if that's what the workout requires. Whether you've had too much coffee or too little sleep, or too much work stress, your HR gives you a constant that pace ranges can't.

That's what my reading is of it so far, but I'm just beginning to study it.

Ceepo wrote: »

Yes that's true. your HR is the physiological cost of the effort you are making regardless of pace.
But you have to work within range's within zone's, and sometimes you also have to "ALLOW" for the fact you had the cup of coffee etc,

'Allow' as in excuse?

e.g, your marathon effort is 165 bpm. On Sunday you ran 10 miles at 165bpm and it was 3:30 pace, but on Wednesday you ran 6 miles at 165bpm and it was 3:45 pace, but you'd had a stressful day at work.

So on Wed you're 'allowing' for the stressful day at work.

Is that what you mean?

Lazare wrote: »

'Allow' as in excuse?

e.g, your marathon effort is 165 bpm. On Sunday you ran 10 miles at 165bpm and it was 3:30 pace, but on Wednesday you ran 6 miles at 165bpm and it was 3:45 pace, but you'd had a stressful day at work.

So on Wed you're 'allowing' for the stressful day at work.

Is that what you mean?

Allow as in a reason,
So to use your example, on Wed you have a cup of coffee 20 mins before you run, your hr is 165 and pace is 3,45 then you know that the coffee may have been the reason for the slower pace at the same HR...

I have been using HR for nearly 20 years, I have also coached athletes for approx 10 years, most of them I recommend to get or use HR.
One thing I have learned in that time is, there are times you have to use common sense when reviewing training session, there will be times when the HR drifts a bit more than it should, this is normal and indeed acceptable. But I wouldn't get concerned if it was only one session. I would be looking for patterns. Eg you're out for an easy 60 min run, 6min per k pace at approx 140 hr and your hr drifts upwards +10 beats in the last 15 mins at the same pace, . Similar your RHR is Mon 45, Wed 46, Fri 45, Sun 47, Tue 55, this would be a flag for me. My rule of thumb on RHR is 10/12% over base is a very easy recover day, >15% = rest day.
HR is a great tool, but it's only a tool. You need to marry it with common sense

Your RHR is the single lowest reliable HR you have recorded.
It doesn't matter how much you have slept or didn't sleep.

Similarly your Max HR is the highest reliable HR you have ever recorded.

normanoffside wrote: »

Your RHR is the single lowest reliable HR you have recorded.
It doesn't matter how much you have slept or didn't sleep.

Similarly your Max HR is the highest reliable HR you have ever recorded.

Agreed. There's a bit of common sense needed here folks. Resting means resting. You don't have to be asleep for hours. You just need to be chilled. Sitting on the couch reading for a while.

FFVII wrote: »

I'm looking for a fitness watch to record heartrate/steps/gps/route track on a map/etc, is a fitbit the way to go?

Which model?

For a Man if that matters?

If it's a fitbit you are looking at the fitbit Ionic is the only one that has gps.

If you look up their price and then look up the equivilant on the garmin site to see what is available for that price.

FFVII wrote: »

Doesn't have to be fitbit.

Surprising about the absence of gps!

They will pair with the phone and can access GPS through that but if you want to be free of the phone, the Ionic is the only fitbit that has GPS

I had a garmin but moved to fitbit. Depends on what's important, running without phone or steps etc

The Black Oil wrote: »

RHR last few mornings. 57, 65 and 68. Stress is high and am a little under the weather too.

That type of variation is similar enough to mine TBO, my numbers are lower but the difference between normal and when i'm sick can be 25+%.

I have 3 ranges

42-44: Normal (for me!)
46-49: Expect this the day after a big session or long run. Or an illness may be looming.
50-54: I'm sick or over-training!

I didn't look too closely at my RHR this time last year but i wish i had, i had 5 consecutive months from Oct '18-Feb '19 where it was 50+ every day. In hindsight it started with over-reaching in my DCM training around Sept and then i never had the cop on foresight to let myself recover after DCM and i rolled from one virus after another until late Feb/early March of this year :rolleyes:

I think it's worth knowing the pattern of your RHR. Needless to say it's not the only way of tapping into how you are feeling and there are anomalies that may effect it like sleep quality, alcohol consumption and hydration levels so for this reason i wouldn't get bogged down on a single reading but it's handy to know the general pattern and the warning signs when it's up a few days in a row. That's my take on it all anyhow :P

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks very much, ariana`:)

I noticed mine was under 50 a few times earlier this year, the odd time I bothered to look when not running. I wear an old Casio most of the time.

I can barely speak at the moment. No pain so I can't really complain, but the sensible thing is not to be out there in polyester for 25-30 miles this week, even if they're easy. Think something was posted on the forum about immune systems post-marathons (quick search says that may be a myth?). I rarely drink alcohol, and my sleep is usually all over the place, including recently.

I can’t help thinking you’re over-egging this. Just wear the watch 24/7 for a few days, if you can stand it (I don’t like wearing watch in bed myself). Your watch will tell you your RHR. Assuming it was a fairly normal few days, just go with it. If you’re a little off the zones won’t change by any significant amount anyway.

Good to be looking at this, but probably not TOO vital for the average marathon improver, trying to get down to a performance where further improvement may well depend on this kind of nuance. Important, but not right now.

Murph_D wrote: »

I can’t help thinking you’re over-egging this. Just wear the watch 24/7 for a few days, if you can stand it (I don’t like wearing watch in bed myself). Your watch will tell you your RHR. Assuming it was a fairly normal few days, just go with it. If you’re a little off the zones won’t change by any significant amount anyway.

Good to be looking at this, but probably not TOO vital for the average marathon improver, trying to get down to a performance where further improvement may well depend on this kind of nuance. Important, but not right now.

On the contrary, I would say that its good for all athletes regardless of ability to monitor their RHR.

As I point out before it IS an indication that some that something is not quite right. While there many be many reasons (as point out alcohol, stress, overtraining etc) it is easy rule out some of these as you know if you were consuming alcohol or if you're stressed.
RHR will only go up it theres a reason for it.

Going from mid 50's to high 60's us a significant jump.
Taking a day or 2 off is going to benefit them a lot more than any type of training...
I dont see any physiologically benefit to go training when RHR is elevated to such an extent

Hi folks, I do a bit of coaching and running and thinking of getting a watch. What's the Garmin forerunner like.?. Its second hand. I'd just like it for measuring the distance ran as we're cross country, and train in different fields. I'm not always sure of the kms on the night. TIA for any info

I've a Forerunner 35 and it's great..

Forerunner 15 captures essential stats from your run like time, distance and pace

should be fine so

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Hi guys, not sure if this is the right thread but I'll give it a shot. What I'd like to know is if it's feasible to run my first ever full marathon 11 weeks after running a half? Running a full has always been an ambition but wanted to run at least 2-3 halfs first. I'd like to run the Tralee half on March 14th 2020, and then possibly run the Cork full marathon on May 31st. In Tralee I'd be aiming for sub 1.30, but in Cork I'd be more aiming just to finish the race, although ideally in sub 3.20.

Not sure how relevant it is, but I've just set a new half pb of 1:30.41 (hence wanting to go sub 1.30 in Tralee), which was my second ever half and over nine minutes faster than my first a year previously. Most full marathon training plans that I've seen online tend to be 16-20 weeks in length, but having trained for the half (and probably taking a week off to recover after) I imagine I'd be able to start a few weeks into any such plan as I obviously wouldn't be starting from scratch. So is it doable, or too much of a stretch?

Go for it.

I'm assuming if you're running ~90 mins for the half that you're doing a decent bit of mileage anyway (?).

If you're targeting/prioritizing the marathon then maybe going balls out for the half isn't the best idea but it'll be a good chance to run at pace leading up to the big day.

The marathon is a big step up no doubt but you'll be well able.

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

Hi guys, not sure if this is the right thread but I'll give it a shot. What I'd like to know is if it's feasible to run my first ever full marathon 11 weeks after running a half? Running a full has always been an ambition but wanted to run at least 2-3 halfs first. I'd like to run the Tralee half on March 14th 2020, and then possibly run the Cork full marathon on May 31st. In Tralee I'd be aiming for sub 1.30, but in Cork I'd be more aiming just to finish the race, although ideally in sub 3.20.

Not sure how relevant it is, but I've just set a new half pb of 1:30.41 (hence wanting to go sub 1.30 in Tralee), which was my second ever half and over nine minutes faster than my first a year previously. Most full marathon training plans that I've seen online tend to be 16-20 weeks in length, but having trained for the half (and probably taking a week off to recover after) I imagine I'd be able to start a few weeks into any such plan as I obviously wouldn't be starting from scratch. So is it doable, or too much of a stretch?

Why don't you train for the full, follow a 16-20 week plan, and do the half during the full marathon training? Some plans will have races penciled in as tune-up races anyhow. If it doesn't i'm sure you'll get advice here on how to work it into the plan.