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A young women's suicide

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  • 10-11-2019 10:38am
    #1
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭


    so sad and show the utter lack of passion and training gardai have in mental health.

    ffs, taken to Dochas prison because she was unable to post €100 bail.

    The gardai should hang their heads in shame - will any member of the gardai be brought to justice over this? - Not an effin chance

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/funeral-of-woman-who-died-after-prison-suicide-attempt-told-of-love-and-beauty-1.4076683


    About 30 people attended a funeral service in Dublin on Friday for a young mother who died last month, one week after attempting to take her own life in prison.

    Monika Nawrat (30), originally from Poland but living in Ireland for over ten years, died in the Mater hospital on October 14th. She had been on life-support since October 5th after she had attempted suicide in her cell in Dóchas women’s prison.

    Ms Nawrat had been remanded into prison custody on October 3rd and was found seriously injured in her cell on the night of October 4th/5th. Six separate investigations are under way into the circumstances of her death including into whether Dóchas officers were appraised by gardaí of her vulnerability.

    She had been unable to pay €100 bail at Trim district court on October 3rd where she appeared on foot of a bench warrant issued in September for a public order offence.


«1345

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    #2
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    I’m not being callous here, but how in the name of Jesus were the Gardaí to know she would commit suicide? They are there to uphold the law and the sentencing of the judge.

    You didn’t think this through, man.


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    #3
    MarkR
    Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,063 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    So OP, tell us what really happened? From the article the investigation is ongoing, but you seem to have all the facts.


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    #4
    Squall Leonhart
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,794 ✭✭✭Squall Leonhart


    It's sad that a young mother felt the need to end her life in such circumstances, but the guards were just doing their job, a public service. The woman was breaking the law and was pulled on it. Very unfair to blame the gardai here.


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    #5
    PirateShampoo
    Registered Users Posts: 4,406 ✭✭✭PirateShampoo


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    I’m not being callous here, but how in the name of Jesus were the Gardaí to know she would commit suicide? They are there to uphold the law and the sentencing of the judge.

    You didn’t think this through, man.

    She was locked up for 2 nights at that stage on a poxy Public Order Offence. Putting aside the ridiculousness of that, they have a duty of care of all prisoners.


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    #6
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,876 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Shows a failing health and judicial system, particularly health


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    #7
    Felix Jones is God.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 93 ✭✭Felix Jones is God.


    Not sure how the Gardai can be even remotely held culpable for this woman's death....her actions led to her arrest and incarceration...do we now start blaming the Gardai for all prison deaths? It's the judicial system here in Ireland you should perhaps direct your indignation towards


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    #8
    Lewis_Benson
    Registered Users Posts: 1,911 ✭✭✭Lewis_Benson


    Rabble rabble rabble it's always someone else's fault.


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    #9
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    That has to be the most misleading title of a thread so far this year. The Guards had no choice as to whether to put her in prison or not, they had to do so on the order of the Court. They even got her medical attention, so a medical professional deemed her fit to be returned into custody. She wasn't even in their custody when she died ffs. I don't know what more you expected them to do, but by what you've said so far I don't expect a reasonable response.


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    #10
    corner of hells
    Registered Users Posts: 8,362 ✭✭✭corner of hells


    silver2020 wrote: »
    so sad and show the utter lack of passion and training gardai have in mental health.

    ffs, taken to Dochas prison because she was unable to post €100 bail.

    The gardai should hang their heads in shame - will any member of the gardai be brought to justice over this? - Not an effin chance

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/funeral-of-woman-who-died-after-prison-suicide-attempt-told-of-love-and-beauty-1.4076683


    About 30 people attended a funeral service in Dublin on Friday for a young mother who died last month, one week after attempting to take her own life in prison.

    Monika Nawrat (30), originally from Poland but living in Ireland for over ten years, died in the Mater hospital on October 14th. She had been on life-support since October 5th after she had attempted suicide in her cell in Dóchas women’s prison.

    Ms Nawrat had been remanded into prison custody on October 3rd and was found seriously injured in her cell on the night of October 4th/5th. Six separate investigations are under way into the circumstances of her death including into whether Dóchas officers were appraised by gardaí of her vulnerability.

    She had been unable to pay €100 bail at Trim district court on October 3rd where she appeared on foot of a bench warrant issued in September for a public order offence.

    Interesting how your automatic response is to blame the Gardai.


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    #11
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,848 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    this OP is bull cr@p

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #12
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,277 ✭✭✭Your Face


    No, this doesn't do it for me.

    Try harder OP, maybe throw in a bit of racism next time.


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    #13
    Dayo93
    Registered Users Posts: 201 ✭✭Dayo93


    The gaurds sought medical help for her, The hospital released her to be sent to prision , Should the medics not have to answer questions ?


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    #14
    BDI
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,005 ✭✭✭BDI


    The opening post says more about the poster than the Gardaí Id say.


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    #15
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    PirateShampoo wrote: »
    She was locked up for 2 nights at that stage on a poxy Public Order Offence. Putting aside the ridiculousness of that, they have a duty of care of all prisoners.

    She wasn't in the custody of the guards, she was in the custody of the Irish prison service, but you go ahead and rant away there anyway.


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    looking for another person to hold responsible for a case of suicide seems to be a strange impulse, and one that fundamentally misunderstands a lot of linked issues.

    the poor woman had very serious mental health issues and her troubles didnt begin with the gardaí, who hadnt discretion to do any more than they did in this instance


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    #17
    AlphabetCards
    Registered Users Posts: 410 ✭✭AlphabetCards


    Incorrect use of the word appraised.


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    #18
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,079 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I've read all that article and I can't see any reference to garda malpractice or fault.

    So why does the OP refer to garda shame and that this poor woman's suicide was garda fault? Very strange opinion to draw from that story


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    #19
    anewme
    Registered Users Posts: 11,875 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    Given the title of the thread, I expected it to be about 16 year old Mia O'Neill from Tipperary.

    I heard her Mum on Joe Duffy.

    Heartbreaking.


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    #20
    Graces7
    Registered Users Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Requiescat in pace, child of God. Safe,


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    #21
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    I’m not being callous here, but how in the name of Jesus were the Gardaí to know she would commit suicide? They are there to uphold the law and the sentencing of the judge.

    You didn’t think this through, man.
    MarkR wrote: »
    So OP, tell us what really happened? From the article the investigation is ongoing, but you seem to have all the facts.
    Squall Leonhart wrote: »
    It's sad that a young mother felt the need to end her life in such circumstances, but the guards were just doing their job, a public service. The woman was breaking the law and was pulled on it. Very unfair to blame the gardai here.
    Felix Jones is God. wrote: »
    Not sure how the Gardai can be even remotely held culpable for this woman's death....her actions led to her arrest and incarceration...do we now start blaming the Gardai for all prison deaths? It's the judicial system here in Ireland you should perhaps direct your indignation towards
    Lewis_Benson wrote: »
    Rabble rabble rabble it's always someone else's fault.
    corner of hells wrote: »
    Interesting how your automatic response is to blame the Gardai.

    I'm purely going on what is written by the Irish time - my original post only gives an excerpt.
    This was a relatively minor offence. Bail was set at €100 which she did not have. She became agitated and was brought to hospital. She was released into garda custody. gardai brought her to dochas and according to the article, they did not inform dochas that she had required hospital care that day.

    That is a phenomenal failure on the part of gardai.


    and its not the only case where some gardai have such little understanding of mental health issues, that their actions cause serious harm.

    I will say that the vast vast majority of gardai are decent, but there are still far too many that have an inability to display empathy when there is an obvious mental health issue involved


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    #22
    SeaFields
    Registered Users Posts: 6,551 ✭✭✭SeaFields


    "silver2020 wrote: »
    they did not inform dochas that she had required hospital care that day.

    That is a phenomenal failure on the part of gardai.

    The article does not say that. Not next or near saying that actually....

    "Six separate investigations are under way into the circumstances of her death including into whether Dóchas officers were appraised by gardaí of her vulnerability."

    Examining the communication between the respective services is part of the investigation. That has not been determined yet.


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    #23
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Ah, the backpedalling move.


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    #24
    Bobblehats
    Registered Users Posts: 4,707 ✭✭✭Bobblehats


    silver2020 wrote: »
    II will say that the vast vast majority of gardai are decent, but there are still far too many that have an inability to display empathy when there is an obvious mental health issue involved

    Im not sure she had some people just react badly to being taken into custody. In which case regardless every precaution should be taken


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    #25
    RobbieMD
    Registered Users Posts: 449 ✭✭RobbieMD


    silver2020 wrote: »

    I will say that the vast vast majority of gardai are decent, but there are still far too many that have an inability to display empathy when there is an obvious mental health issue involved

    What are you basing this on?

    The Gardai obviously saw behaviour that they believed required hospital treatment for. They organised this. Medical staff, who are the ones trained for health service provision, saw to her and discharged her.

    I don’t expect the health services to prosecute offenders and I don’t expect the Gardai to provide health care. I would expect that each service delivers the service they’re supposed to provide. In this case, the Gardai are complying with the judge’s warrant that commits her to prison. There is no discretion that can circumvent this.

    Let the various investigations do their work before pointing the finger.


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    #26
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,176 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Good lord ..dead over a public order offense. Sad.


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    #27
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    silver2020 wrote: »
    I'm purely going on what is written by the Irish time - my original post only gives an excerpt.
    This was a relatively minor offence. Bail was set at €100 which she did not have. She became agitated and was brought to hospital. She was released into garda custody. gardai brought her to dochas and according to the article, they did not inform dochas that she had required hospital care that day.

    That is a phenomenal failure on the part of gardai.


    and its not the only case where some gardai have such little understanding of mental health issues, that their actions cause serious harm.

    I will say that the vast vast majority of gardai are decent, but there are still far too many that have an inability to display empathy when there is an obvious mental health issue involved


    The gardai just decided to send here to mount joy on their own judgement did they?

    Or are you saying the gardai should decide on punishments laid down by the courts and whether they should be enforced?

    Maybe we should cut out the middle man altogether and just let the gardai decide guilt and punishment. Cos you seem to have decided that's what happened.


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    #28
    GRACKEA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 129 ✭✭GRACKEA


    anewme wrote: »
    Given the title of the thread, I expected it to be about 16 year old Mia O'Neill from Tipperary.

    I heard her Mum on Joe Duffy.

    Heartbreaking.

    I thought it was going to be about Dara Quigley. One of the worst cases I've heard of.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-who-filmed-tragic-journalist-dara-quigley-to-avoid-prosecution-37184945.html


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    #29
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    silver2020 wrote: »
    so sad and show the utter lack of passion and training gardai have in mental health.

    ffs, taken to Dochas prison because she was unable to post €100 bail.

    The gardai should hang their heads in shame - will any member of the gardai be brought to justice over this? - Not an effin chance

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/funeral-of-woman-who-died-after-prison-suicide-attempt-told-of-love-and-beauty-1.4076683


    About 30 people attended a funeral service in Dublin on Friday for a young mother who died last month, one week after attempting to take her own life in prison.

    OP you clearly are of very low or limited intelligence so I'll try and make it easy for you to understand.

    The gardai are bound by law to carry out the wishes of the judge/court. They have no choice in the matter and would have been found in contempt of court if they decided to let her go.

    Her mental health is not the gardai or courts fault. She is responsible for her own actions.

    You're obviously anti-Garda and you saw this as a chance to direct some of your misguided anger at them. Nice try but utter fail on your part but however there is a bright side as I believe you are now in contention for an award for the most stupid post of the week. Well done.


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    #30
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    anewme wrote: »
    Given the title of the thread, I expected it to be about 16 year old Mia O'Neill from Tipperary.

    I heard her Mum on Joe Duffy.

    Heartbreaking.


    What's the garda angle on that? I'm only seeing stories of bullying when I search it.

    I see a but in a couple of them where the family d9nt want to go after the people that bullied her because they are nit interested in a witch hunt. She named the people in a note. Hiw would that be a witch hunt? People should be punished for wrong doing. You need to show other that there are consequences to this crap.


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    #31
    cannotlogin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,172 ✭✭✭cannotlogin


    OP, you are completely misguided. It's terrible that lady felt the need to take her own life but there's no way the cards I are responsible. There had to have been underlying issues.

    I could gave the same experience as car lady and can assure you it wouldn't end the same way.

    The gardai are not to blame for everything in this countryman deserve a lot more respect.


This discussion has been closed.
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