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The future of the Bray-Greystones line

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    #122
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Indeed. I can't see anything major being done on this line for decades, and the volume of people using it will start to pale in comparison to the bus service soon enough.

    Once the Dart expansion goes through, there may be some capacity freed up, so that more trains can be moved onto the line, but I'd say the NTA are hesitant to put more trains through Connolly and the loop line. The signalling upgrades may change things, so between that and the Dart Expansion, things may improve at that stage.

    I'd still like them to look into turning trains south of Bray/Greystones into a shuttle service, as it could be done relatively quickly, and without much expense.


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    #123
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    Is there a direct bus to Wexford town from Dublin? I took a Wexford bus the other day, and it stopped in every town once it crossed into Wexford. It took 2hrs 30 mins, making the train at least 6,000% more preferable.

    Go Bus/Citylink offer direct buses to Galway, for example, making them faster (or as fast as) the train; is there a Wexford equivalent?


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    #124
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    The other potential big change is that the Luas B2 extension to Bray is still something that crops up from time to time, I imagine being able to interconnect with that would completely change the landscape of rail commuting in the Wicklow/Wexford region. The ability to get to Sandyford relatively easily would be a massive change, but again, the existing commuter rail is not up to snuff for that either.


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    #125
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    AAAAAAAAA wrote: »
    The other potential big change is that the Luas B2 extension to Bray is still something that crops up from time to time, I imagine being able to interconnect with that would completely change the landscape of rail commuting in the Wicklow/Wexford region. The ability to get to Sandyford relatively easily would be a massive change, but again, the existing commuter rail is not up to snuff for that either.

    Can't see that going ahead now that the southside portion of the Metro was cancelled. I know that not all commutes are into the city centre from there, but it'd still be enough to cause problems on some sections of the line.


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    #126
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Indeed. I can't see anything major being done on this line for decades, and the volume of people using it will start to pale in comparison to the bus service soon enough.

    Once the Dart expansion goes through, there may be some capacity freed up, so that more trains can be moved onto the line, but I'd say the NTA are hesitant to put more trains through Connolly and the loop line. The signalling upgrades may change things, so between that and the Dart Expansion, things may improve at that stage.

    I'd still like them to look into turning trains south of Bray/Greystones into a shuttle service, as it could be done relatively quickly, and without much expense.


    This has been discussed ad nauseum and is a non-starter for most of us. Dare I ask do you have the misfortune to use the existing Rosslare Harbour - Connolly rail service?

    ****



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    #127
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    This has been discussed ad nauseum and is a non-starter for most of us. Dare I ask do you have the misfortune to use the existing Rosslare Harbour - Connolly rail service?

    Haha, yes, I know that we've gone around this roundabout before, and I know all the positions on it. I don't use the line at all to be honest, can't remember the last time I've been on it.

    However, I don't need to use it to know that it's failing. All the transport census figures show this. One look at the number of complaints about the service would tell you this. Any changes that'll improve the service are significantly more expensive than comparable works on other lines, which is why this line gets nothing in the Dart Expansion programme.

    No one has suggested any other cost neutral option for this line to increase service or frequency.


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    #128
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    This has been discussed ad nauseum and is a non-starter for most of us. Dare I ask do you have the misfortune to use the existing Rosslare Harbour - Connolly rail service?

    I use it! Would the use of a Rosslare/Wexford Town to Bray, and then transfer to DART mean the potential for an earlier service to Wexford Town in the AM, and the same in the evening?

    It's not going to suddenly get crazy busy. Everyone would still get their seat.


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    #129
    CatInABox
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,233 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatInABox


    Oasis_Dublin wrote: »
    I use it! Would the use of a Rosslare/Wexford Town to Bray, and then transfer to DART mean the potential for an earlier service to Wexford Town in the AM, and the same in the evening?

    It's not going to suddenly get crazy busy. Everyone would still get their seat.

    Yes, that's the general idea. By stopping the train at Bray/Greystones, it could do a return journey from there, increasing the frequency. I'd assume that they could run it later, but I'm not 100% sure, to be honest. Not sure if they'd do earlier either, but by running it solely on the tracks south of Bray, I'd assume that the frequency could be boosted by a fair amount, plus it could run throughout the day.

    As Del.Monte has said, we've gone over this a good few times on here, and both sides of the argument are pretty entrenched.


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    #130
    Oasis_Dublin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Oasis_Dublin


    CatInABox wrote: »
    Yes, that's the general idea. By stopping the train at Bray/Greystones, it could do a return journey from there, increasing the frequency. I'd assume that they could run it later, but I'm not 100% sure, to be honest. Not sure if they'd do earlier either, but by running it solely on the tracks south of Bray, I'd assume that the frequency could be boosted by a fair amount, plus it could run throughout the day.

    As Del.Monte has said, we've gone over this a good few times on here, and both sides of the argument are pretty entrenched.

    Reading back, this certainly seems to be the case!


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    #131
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    There is no reason that turning back the Wexford trains at Bray could not be trialled on at least one train per day. If it is successful, then try two.

    I cannot see why this would be objected to, as it would allow arrivals into Wexford in the am which currently do not occur.


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    #132
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Bray - Wicklow shuttle seems more likely as that's where the greatest demand is.

    South of Wicklow, off-peak its difficult for the train to compete with the bus.


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    #133
    AAAAAAAAA
    Registered Users Posts: 251 ✭✭AAAAAAAAA


    loyatemu wrote: »
    Bray - Wicklow shuttle seems more likely as that's where the greatest demand is.

    South of Wicklow, off-peak its difficult for the train to compete with the bus.

    A fairly high frequency service from Gorey to Bray would actually be pretty worthwhile for a lot of commuters, there are a good number of people who commute between the towns on that corridor who simply don't bother with the train because of the lack of services


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    #134
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    would it be worth considering P&R around here with shuttles running all day to Bray or Greystones and access from N11 J17. Would get traffic off the road before it hits the busy sections further north (would also reduce pressure on the Greystones P&R which is filling up earlier and earlier).

    image.png


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    #135
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    loyatemu wrote: »
    would it be worth considering P&R around here with shuttles running all day to Bray or Greystones and access from N11 J17. Would get traffic off the road before it hits the busy sections further north (would also reduce pressure on the Greystones P&R which is filling up earlier and earlier).

    The interchange penalty would kill that idea.
    Why would someone drive to a park and ride to get a bus to then get a train?
    Running direct buses from that location to the city centre would make sense maybe


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    #136
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    there is just so much dicking around here with changing though, if they did that, would have to be very reliable and a proper sheltered area for users during the winter...

    the previous post summed it up...


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    #137
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Where does the get a bus to get a train come from? Didn't he pick a location on the train line and off a motorway junction so people drive there and get directly onto the train? Perhaps express buses could run from such a location as well.


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    #138
    Last Stop
    Registered Users Posts: 920 ✭✭✭Last Stop


    Pete_Cavan wrote: »
    Where does the get a bus to get a train come from? Didn't he pick a location on the train line and off a motorway junction so people drive there and get directly onto the train? Perhaps express buses could run from such a location as well.

    Because he suggested shuttles to Bray and Greystones.
    If you’re proposing a new station then in theory that would work but given the frequency issues between Greystones and Bray that is not a runner


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    #139
    MrAbyss
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 426 ✭✭MrAbyss


    In many ways it is a blessing that affluent Greystones is on the far side of that tunnel. Had it been on the Bray side the line would have been shut down. Ironically this is perhaps the only time in Irish railway history that the upper middle class NIMBYs-inclined will probably save a doomed line and eventually get a second tunnel built.


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    #140
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    Application just gone in for 426 homes in greystones ...

    https://www.greystonesguide.ie/planning-application-for-426-farrankelly-houses/


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    #141
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,040 ✭✭✭prunudo


    loyatemu wrote: »
    would it be worth considering P&R around here with shuttles running all day to Bray or Greystones and access from N11 J17. Would get traffic off the road before it hits the busy sections further north (would also reduce pressure on the Greystones P&R which is filling up earlier and earlier).

    image.png

    I think thats a great location, create a link direct from n11, also catches traffic coming from the likes of Rathdrum and further inland.
    Link it up with buses and it could become a great transport hub.


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    #142
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Last Stop wrote: »
    The interchange penalty would kill that idea.
    Why would someone drive to a park and ride to get a bus to then get a train?
    Running direct buses from that location to the city centre would make sense maybe

    I meant for transfer directly onto the train - it's the point at which the N11 and the rail line cross; Wicklow Town also needs more services so a shuttle terminating that point would provide capacity for both cases. There's space to build a couple of platforms and a large carpark.


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    #143
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,040 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Application just gone in for 426 homes in greystones ...

    https://www.greystonesguide.ie/planning-application-for-426-farrankelly-houses/

    I don't know where or how they expect these new residents to slot into the existing roads/rail network. I know there's a demand for housing but we can't keep building units without a thought for how people will commute to work. There's no major employer's in Greystones (unless you count the coffee industry) so the reality is these new residents will be be commuting to Dublin every day.


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    #144
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,362 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    I was driving south along the N11 near Greystones last week (twice at 7 am) and was amazed to see the traffic going north was stationary both times. I never realised just how bad the traffic was at that early hour.

    Something needs to be done and soon.


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    #145
    prunudo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,040 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Sam Russell wrote: »
    I was driving south along the N11 near Greystones last week (twice at 7 am) and was amazed to see the traffic going north was stationary both times. I never realised just how bad the traffic was at that early hour.

    Something needs to be done and soon.

    Its shocking Sam, its not until you see it like you did heading southbound you realise how bad it is. Can be like that till 9.30 a lot of mornings too.


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    #146
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    we all realise that more roads mean more cars, but with the morons in charge and anything public transport related going to be a decade plus away, in the short to medium term, there might not be another choice!

    Will this new scheme proposed for the around kilmacanogue have a designated bus lane or lane designated for buses at peak times?


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    #147
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    we all realise that more roads mean more cars, but with the morons in charge and anything public transport related going to be a decade plus away, in the short to medium term, there might not be another choice!

    Will this new scheme proposed for the around kilmacanogue have a designated bus lane or lane designated for buses at peak times?

    it's still being designed.


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    #148
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    loyatemu wrote: »
    it's still being designed.

    I am assuming a much loved public consultation will take place after the design is released?


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    #149
    loyatemu
    Registered Users Posts: 14,743 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    I am assuming a much loved public consultation will take place after the design is released?

    there has already been a consultation (I requested bus priority measures, as did some of the local councillors). This is phase 1.

    Phase 2 will see the release of a preferred design and I guess more consulations:
    https://n11m11.ie


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    #150
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    there needs to be 4 lanes each direction (with one for for public transport use at peak times) by the time this is built and to future proof it, that is what is required in my opinion...


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    #151
    donvito99
    Registered Users Posts: 5,818 ✭✭✭donvito99


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    there needs to be 4 lanes each direction (with one for for public transport use at peak times) by the time this is built and to future proof it, that is what is required in my opinion...

    Yeah that third lane on the M50 solved it alright


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