Thinking of moving to the motor trade

jordanfaf · 02-04-2020 12:32pm #1

I have a decent job in an architecture office. But I hate every day of it. My real passion is cars, and I have a good track record trading them on my own time every now and then. As well as privately selling my own vehicles usually for more than I paid when I come time to change (usually once a year)

I’m not expecting to fall head over heels for a career in car sales, after all it is just another job but it is at least closer to my passion than I will ever get sitting at screen mindlessly drawing lines. I will at least be talking to customers, working with a product I am passionate for and know inside out already, as well as gaining experience to potentially go out on my own.

If there are any motor traders / salesmen on here I have a few questions. (Even a PM of the answers would be great if you don’t want to answer on here)

- what would a junior sales in a main dealer (Bmw Audi Mercedes) be earning before commission

- how many sales per month and how much commission would one expect to be taking in a Dublin main dealer.

- what does your daily routine in the dealership consist of, a day in the life if you will.

Any insight appreciated

Many thanks

bazz26 · 02-04-2020 12:36pm

I don't work in it but I honestly couldn't think of a worse time to be looking at trying to get into the motor trade. The motor industry in general and motor trade here are going to be one of the hardest hit as a result of this health crisis.

jordanfaf · 02-04-2020 12:39pm

bazz26 wrote: »

I don't work in it but I honestly couldn't think of a worse time to be looking at trying to get into the motor trade. The motor industry in general and motor trade here are going to be one of the hardest hit as a result of this health crisis.

I appreciate that. I’m not talking about jumping ship right this second. Architecture is hardly a recession proof profession either ðŸ˜…

Hellrazer · 02-04-2020 1:33pm

bazz26 wrote: »

I don't work in it but I honestly couldn't think of a worse time to be looking at trying to get into the motor trade. The motor industry in general and motor trade here are going to be one of the hardest hit as a result of this health crisis.

Have to agree 100%
The industry is going to be absolutely fecked after this one.

OP stick with your architecture job...the motor trade is and if Im being completely honest one of the worst professions to work in at a junior level ie junior salesman,apprentice etc.

You have to be wary of what you are getting into--the pay will be **** as a junior sales person . A junior saleman is one step up from a shelf stacker in a supermarket....actually more like the trolley person.

You will do the ****tiest jobs in the dealership..cleaning cars,delivering and collecting vehicles,emptying bins. Basically a slave for the senior sales people.You`ll end up doing a lot of the donkey work for them while they get the commission at the end of the month.

As well as that a junior salesman doesn't really have a training path. You could be a "junior" salesman for years before you earn a cent in commission.

If you do decide to enter the industry just go in knowing what you are getting into.

Blueshoe · 02-04-2020 1:36pm

You have a passion for cars right?
Do you have a passion for sales though?

The motor trade is horrible. Keep away is my advice.
It will also destroy your passion for cars in the long term.
Don't do it

Voodoomelon · 02-04-2020 1:55pm

My advice in general to anyone is not to move into a career in what you like doing in your spare time, as the reason you likely enjoy it is because you do it at your own pace, as a switch off from work and enjoy the nicer aspects of it from a distance.

As soon as it becomes your job or your business, everything changes, targets need to be met, deadlines constantly looming, the cars/items you once loved just become the product and it gets to a stage where you don't even see it any more. Constant problem solving, dealing with complaints, fixing f-ups, same as any business.

My cousin works in sales for Audi in a major UK city and its a demanding job, I get the impression he's far from in love with it.

kirving · 02-04-2020 1:59pm

bazz26 wrote: »

I don't work in it but I honestly couldn't think of a worse time to be looking at trying to get into the motor trade. The motor industry in general and motor trade here are going to be one of the hardest hit as a result of this health crisis.

Agreed, I work in automotive manufacturing for multinational, so quite well insulated really from the day to day struggles that this has caused the motor trade here, and even we are already taking a hammering due to this.

Give yourself a few months at least, now is absolutely not the time to be jumping from what you say is a decent career to bottom of the latter again.

R.O.R · 02-04-2020 2:34pm

If there is a job that needs doing, but no one can be bothered doing it, that's what a junior does.

No milk, send a junior to Tesco. Car stuck down the back of the yard so you need to move 7 motors to get it, in pissing rain? That's a job for a junior. Car needs delivering to Donegal and there's nothing to come back in? Send a junior, they can get the bus or train back.

At least 6 months of being a total dogsbody who isn't allowed to sell in our places. Can only talk to customers on Saturdays and can't complete a sale.

colm_mcm · 02-04-2020 3:54pm

It’s a sales job primarily. Don’t do it for the love of cars.
Your timing is particularly bad too.
Passion for cars or knowledge of them will only get you so far. You have to be able to sell things to succeed.

MetzgerMeister · 02-04-2020 4:10pm

To lose your job, do it without passion.
To lose your passion, do it as a job.

- MetzgerMeister 2020

Fabio · 02-04-2020 4:46pm

MetzgerMeister wrote: »

To lose your job, do it without passion.
To lose your passion, do it as a job.

- MetzgerMeister 2020

That's actually a great quote. And so so true.

Bigus · 02-04-2020 10:29pm

Just ramp up your wheeling and dealing on the side and keep the day job . If you’re as good as you think you are, a natural progression would be for the wheeling and dealing to take over eventually .
Also Don’t be afraid to declare a bit to the revenue , before they come to you , there’s no law against making a few quid unlike some eejits would have you believe. However a trade policy might be the showstopper for you.

ShadowHearth · 03-04-2020 9:33am

colm_mcm wrote: »

It’s a sales job primarily. Don’t do it for the love of cars.
Your timing is particularly bad too.
Passion for cars or knowledge of them will only get you so far. You have to be able to sell things to succeed.

From my experience dealing with dealers from customer prospective - very fecking accurate.
I encountered salesperson, who doesn't even know it's own car line up they sell and appearantly he worked there for 15 years. He was a great bull****ter thought.

Op might have passion for cars, but reality of being cars sales guy is selling boring eco boxes, to families or old ladies. You will be lucky to work for a brand that has a few tasty motors, that you might have knowledge and homework done on, but having such customer walk in to dealership will be like seeing a unicorn.

On the other hand, my buddy got very friendly with independent dealer. At the stage where he was helping him and working for him selling cars on weekends, before this plague hit. He really loved it. Thing is, a lot of it, was due to it being independent garage, only two of them actually doing sales, the owner would not just bring bog standard cookie cutter stock. He would bring high spec cars and my buddy could test drive them. That experience would not be same as junior sales minion in corporate brand dealer.

L-M · 03-04-2020 10:20pm

Voodoomelon wrote: »

My advice in general to anyone is not to move into a career in what you like doing in your spare time, as the reason you likely enjoy it is because you do it at your own pace, as a switch off from work and enjoy the nicer aspects of it from a distance.

As someone who had a huge interest in cars from a young age, I can't stress this enough. If you enjoy cars, DO NOT enter the Motortrade. You will soon lose all interest.

I used to attend every car show in the country with my father etc and i've made some great life long friends through cars as a hobby.

My old boss said to me about 5 years ago "You really need to get a different hobby, you can't have a passion for cars and work with them, you'll soon hate them".

He was right.

Haven't been to a show in years and I just generally have completely lost interest in them as a hobby.

I can PM you some of the financials if you like, but if financials are a concern for you, i don't think the "Junior" motortrade role is for you!

maddness · 04-04-2020 12:27pm

I’ve loved cars all my life and sold cars for two different dealerships for a few years when I was in my 20’s. I hated it. Long hours and very few car sales people get to see the kind of cars that you really would like to own or drive. In one place I worked there were ten sales people and none of the others were remotely interested in cars at all, all they were interested in was money. They would sell their granny for a tenner too.

aaakev · 04-04-2020 12:47pm

Am I the only one that loves it???

Wages wise I'd say a junior you are looking at 17/18k basic and making high 20s to early 30s in your first year. Iv no personal experience of this it's just from chatting with lads you would meet over the years on different courses or training events.

The job itself can be the best and worst all in the space of a week but I cant remember a day in the last 10 years where i got the fear or didnt want to go to work and I still get the buz I got at the start.

Financially it can be a very rewarding career, my last 4 years have been amazing financially, I won't put figures up here but feel free to drop me a pm if you want.

CIP4 · 04-04-2020 11:24pm

I don't work in car sales or in the motor industry. But OP the way I see it you don't like your current job at all. So what would be the harm in looking to move into the industry as a Junior salesman to really try it you would want to give it a year. If after the year you don't like it simply move back. In your case its really just a matter of interviewing and getting a role not like you need to go to college for 4 years and invest massive money so I can't see the harm in trying it or what's actually to lose. Chances are you will kind of either love it or hate it. If you love it great if you hate it sure you don't like your current job so not really a whole lot worse off and can just move back.

Obviously you will have to ride it out for 6 months to a year at least to see what way things go first before trying to move.

Toyotafanboi · 05-04-2020 10:33am

aaakev wrote: »

Am I the only one that loves it???

Wages wise I'd say a junior you are looking at 17/18k basic and making high 20s to early 30s in your first year. Iv no personal experience of this it's just from chatting with lads you would meet over the years on different courses or training events.

The job itself can be the best and worst all in the space of a week but I cant remember a day in the last 10 years where i got the fear or didnt want to go to work and I still get the buz I got at the start.

Financially it can be a very rewarding career, my last 4 years have been amazing financially, I won't put figures up here but feel free to drop me a pm if you want.

I agree.

I'm in aftersales not sales but I couldn't be happier. Still enjoy cars as a hobby and as you say, never go to work with the fear, never have Glenroe syndrome on a Sunday night.

I think a good route to avoiding the cars as a hobby/ burnout thing is not being a brand fanboy :rolleyes:

If you like BMW's, dont go working for BMW etc. You'll have notions it'll be all advising guys with performance models the best tyre choices and that type of thing and in reality you'll spend most of your time having OAP's whinge at you that their Doro Easyphone wont connect to the latest MMI and that €45 is too expensive for a set of wipers for a 12 month old 5 series.

I think it's also worth considering aftersales as an option, the entry level basic would be better (top end OTE probably not as good), work spread is good in that it's not as dog eat dog, progression is usually quicker for good individuals, hours and days are more regulated and every day is a different challenge too, as cliche as that sounds.

Even with aftersales you have to have a keen interest in selling and making money, "if the dealer is making money, you're making money", but you're role is also creating and maintaining relationships with previous and prospective purchasers and trying to find the balance between taking care of people and avoiding being exploited too. There's a lot in it but if you're good at it it's rewarding.

Starting as a service advisor you'd probably come in on a mid 20's basic and low 30's OTE, good experienced service advisors would get a mid 30's basic and could be doing up to 50k OTE in a well set up busy dealer. Then you can progress through to service manager, aftersales manager depending on the dealer, area, brand etc if you are willing to put in a year or two.

This side of the industry is a revolving door of staff as a lot of people dont take to it for a variety of different reasons but that does mean that if you stick it out and you are any use at it, opportunitys to move upwards do crop up reasonably often.

corks finest · 05-04-2020 4:40pm

bazz26 wrote: »

I don't work in it but I honestly couldn't think of a worse time to be looking at trying to get into the motor trade. The motor industry in general and motor trade here are going to be one of the hardest hit as a result of this health crisis.

My neighbours son has 2 garages in Cork,one v established,they reckon they could be out of business soon

07-04-2020 9:07am

corks finest wrote: »

My neighbours son has 2 garages in Cork,one v established,they reckon they could be out of business soon

What kind of garages? Main dealer?

TheBoyConor · 07-04-2020 3:13pm

You'd be off of your head to go into the motor trade if you are in architecture already. I assume you are a technician or something? Would you not consider progressing to be an architect or something? That way you'll have much more varied work and meeting people rather than just reviting and cadding.

Toyotafanboi · 07-04-2020 5:45pm

To be fair, I done a PLC in autocad and bachelors in arch tech, was very handy with Revit but there wasn't much industry demand for it, think it was still a bit new at the time. What's a good arch tech making in Dublin with a few years experience? Would you earn €40-45k gross?

Going from arch tech to architect wouldn't be for a lot of lads IMO. Similar titles but worlds apart in a lot of ways.

aaakev · 07-04-2020 8:22pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

To be fair, I done a PLC in autocad and bachelors in arch tech, was very handy with Revit but there wasn't much industry demand for it, think it was still a bit new at the time. What's a good arch tech making in Dublin with a few years experience? Would you earn €40-45k gross?

Going from arch tech to architect wouldn't be for a lot of lads IMO. Similar titles but worlds apart in a lot of ways.

A **** salesman should earn more than that!

Toyotafanboi · 07-04-2020 8:26pm

Someone could tell me I'm miles out with those figures now, I could be wrong.

TheBoyConor · 08-04-2020 12:56am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Would you earn €40-45k gross?

Going from arch tech to architect wouldn't be for a lot of lads IMO. Similar titles but worlds apart in a lot of ways.

Id say salary would be in or around that with a few years experience.

Perhaps not but he should certainly consider it or perhaps some other field of architecture and construction related profession as with the technician experience he will have a head start and a good appreciation for what the work will involve.

An architect would be a much more varied and interesting job, meeting more people than a technician who is likely spending all their time behind a desk doing Revit with limited outside interaction.

I'm just saying he could consider it. Tbh, it would be hard to pick a worse industry to go into than the motor trade.

I am sometimes baffled that fellas still become mechanics. It doesn't even pay a living wage ffs. Only the navy would be on worse pay. If I ever had a child that suggesting that they'd become a mechanic I'd slap the idea out of them.

08-04-2020 1:00am

TheBoyConor wrote: »

Id say salary would be in or around that with a few years experience.

Perhaps not but he should certainly consider it or perhaps some other field of architecture and construction related profession as with the technician experience he will have a head start and a good appreciation for what the work will involve.

An architect would be a much more varied and interesting job, meeting more people than a technician who is likely spending all their time behind a desk doing Revit with limited outside interaction.

I'm just saying he could consider it. Tbh, it would be hard to pick a worse industry to go into than the motor trade.

I am sometimes baffled that fellas still become mechanics. It doesn't even pay a living wage ffs. Only the navy would be on worse pay. If I ever had a child that suggesting that they'd become a mechanic I'd slap the idea out of them.

The wages are rising for mechanics (well heavy diesel ones) i turned down e19 ph plus diesel card/van few months ago

What it will be like after all this shutdown,or if il still have a job is another qs altogether

TheBoyConor · 08-04-2020 1:02am

That's bad money for a job that'll have you half crippled by the age of 40 and at risk of god knows what diseases from all the dust and shíte and chemicals you'll breath in and soak through your skin.

08-04-2020 8:42am

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Someone could tell me I'm miles out with those figures now, I could be wrong.

Don't you reckon an experienced main dealer sales man would make €40k in a good year?

aaakev wrote: »

A **** salesman should earn more than that!

Would they?

Deleted User wrote: »

The wages are rising for mechanics (well heavy diesel ones) i turned down e19 ph plus diesel card/van few months ago.............

Most mechanics would be on half way between that and the minimum wage. Many rely on overtime or jobs on the side to enhance the take home. There's little doubt it's a poor return for a 4 year trade and ongoing training. On the positive side I reckon if you are in that game you should be grand post Covid, buses, HGVs etc should all be rocking away again quite soon.

TheBoyConor wrote: »

That's bad money for a job that'll have you half crippled by the age of 40 and at risk of god knows what diseases from all the dust and shíte and chemicals you'll breath in and soak through your skin.

There are indeed health risks, dirty job. Ergonomically a disaster.

Toyotafanboi · 08-04-2020 11:20am

Augeo wrote: »

Don't you reckon an experienced main dealer sales man would make €40k in a good year?

I shouldn't act like I've huge insight into saleman salaries, there's a few salesmen and ex salesmen on here might be able to give an insight.

Personally I'd say an experienced salesman with a good brand in a city dealership is probably making well in excess 40k OTE but a middling salesman with a mediocre brand in a "down the country" dealer wouldn't seem much more than that I wouldnt think.

jordanfaf · 14-04-2020 6:09pm

Thanks all for the insights.

I am an arch technologist. No way I want to spend the money or time to become an architect. From what I’ve seen in my short time the career is fraught with stress, long hours lawsuits and comparatively low pay. It’s a labour of love for most, a love which I don’t have.

I’m in the fortunate position where I can afford to take an initial pay cut, or even lose a salary all together for a little while. I have a good bit of savings and living rent free at home with food on the table and supportive parents.

Ill have to have a good think of what I want to move on to before I waste any more time in this industry. I feel it’s just not for me.

L-M · 14-04-2020 9:37pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I shouldn't act like I've huge insight into saleman salaries, there's a few salesmen and ex salesmen on here might be able to give an insight.

Personally I'd say an experienced salesman with a good brand in a city dealership is probably making well in excess 40k OTE but a middling salesman with a mediocre brand in a "down the country" dealer wouldn't seem much more than that I wouldnt think.

I would say any salesman worth their salt in any garage, be in “down the country” or not, is doing far in excess of 40k.

What also needs to be taken into account is the fact most will have a phone, nice car, insurance tax and a fuel allowance included also. If you added up what a Regular Joe Soap would have to earn gross to cover that kind of stuff you wouldn’t feel adding another nice few bob to the numbers.

khaldrogo · 14-04-2020 10:11pm

The biggest question you need to ask yourself is whether you are happy to work at least 6 days a week for the rest of your career??

It's a tough job.

L-M · 14-04-2020 10:22pm

khaldrogo wrote: »

The biggest question you need to ask yourself is whether you are happy to work at least 6 days a week for the rest of your career??

It's a tough job.

I don’t know any salesman across the country that works 6 days permanently. The worst of it could be 6 days end of December/Jan/Feb. After that it’s 5 days in pretty much every garage with one weekday off, some garages “groups” do 5 days then 6 days.

Oops! · 14-04-2020 10:24pm

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L-M wrote: »

I don’t know any salesman across the country that works 6 days permanently. The worst of it could be 6 days end of December/Jan/Feb. After that it’s 5 days in pretty much every garage with one weekday off, some garages “groups” do 5 days then 6 days.

You must not know that many salesman/woman so...

L-M · 14-04-2020 10:32pm

Oops! wrote: »

[PHP][/PHP]

You must not know that many salesman/woman so...

I know many actually. Many many.

Toyotafanboi · 14-04-2020 10:38pm

Most of the lads I know say you need to be putting in the 6 days too, but maybe that's an organisation or time/ customer management type issue.

L-M · 14-04-2020 10:52pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

Most of the lads I know say you need to be putting in the 6 days too, but maybe that's an organisation or time/ customer management type issue.

Definitely the latter. All work and no play makes Joe a poor salesman.

NSAman · 14-04-2020 10:59pm

What the hell are you thinking?

You have an architectural background, why the hell would you want to go into car sales? You are mad!

If you love cars so much, why not try something like car design? With your background I would have thought this was the obvious next step?

Think Pininfarina now building and designing in Miami and world wide.....

Toyotafanboi · 14-04-2020 11:00pm

I think people think arch tech work is more glamourous/ high paid than it is too.

NSAman · 14-04-2020 11:04pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I think people think arch tech work is more glamourous/ high paid than it is too.

I work with Architects daily, there is nothing glamorous about them... most of them are pompous..)

Arch Tech is a boring job alright, but necessary. Why not spice it up? There are many other avenues open to the OP.

PrettyBoy · 14-04-2020 11:48pm

I was in this exact position a good few years ago. Had a decent job but I didn't love going into it every day. Decided I wanted to work with cars as I had a genuine interest in them - I spent a considerable amount of my free time reading forums, browsing classifieds and, like you, buying and selling cars myself and usually making a decent profit, so it seemed like an obvious career choice. What an idiot I was.

I got a junior sales job with a big main dealer in Dublin relatively easily but quickly realised I made an awful decision. I was working 6 days, 50+ hours every week and coming out with around €375 (roughly €1500 p/m). I didn't get any commission for the first 6-7 months because I was a junior. There was a massive turnover of lads like myself in the group, coming in hungry and eager to sell and leaving within a few months when they realise how shit it all is in reality.

Daily tasks involved moving cars around in the pissing rain to have them ready to be PDI'd, taking pictures and awkward walk-around videos for online ads, dropping service customers to their home/workplace and plenty more menial drivel I've purposely forgotten over the years.

I stuck it out for a year and hated every minute of it to be honest. I came extremely close to walking out a few times which is very unlike me. Haven't been in a job before or after where it even crossed my mind. I would never consider working in the motor trade again nor would I ever recommend it to any young guy such as yourself that thinks it might be for them because they have an interest in cars. I wouldn't normally write a long post like this but you sound exactly like I did a few years ago before I knew any better so I felt compelled to reply. Take my advice and the advice offered by many other posters here and consider a different path.

PsychoPete · 15-04-2020 12:12am

I worked with 6 different junior salesmen in the space of about 6 years. They all hated it mainly because of the sh!te jobs they had to do like dropping customers placing,going to the shop,bringing around a car for someone. Weren't allowed actually sell anything, most left after a few months. I'm happy out since I left the trade, used to work 47 hours a week with a job in the evenings a few times a week. Slowly started to stop working on my own cars but since I've left it all, I actually look forward to working away on my own cars. You don't know till you try it. If you can, I'd try it out and see how it goes

Cuir_Cosc_Orm · 15-04-2020 6:09am

It's also vital to point out that you need to be proficient in Car financing, given that car dealers can earn more in finance commission than actually selling the car.

R.O.R · 15-04-2020 8:44am

Cuir_Cosc_Orm wrote: »

It's also vital to point out that you need to be proficient in Car financing, given that car dealers can earn more in finance commission than actually selling the car.

Or not, because that's what the business manager is there for.

Oops! · 15-04-2020 8:54am

R.O.R wrote: »

Or not, because that's what the business manager is there for.

Eh?? Some of the best sales people i know or have worked with are the cutest hoors that ever walked this earth, that and top class liars! And none of that was down to the business managers...

Cuir_Cosc_Orm · 15-04-2020 8:56am

R.O.R wrote: »

Or not, because that's what the business manager is there for.

The majority of sales staff will need to know the basic calculations of monthly payments/settlement figures etc. Many dealerships are having sales staff undergo finance courses in order to process finance deals as it's more lucrative.

A business manager can only deal with one customer at a time, and customers won't wait !

15-04-2020 9:12am

Cuir_Cosc_Orm wrote: »

........... Many dealerships are having sales staff undergo finance courses in order to process finance deals as it's more lucrative...........

Two multiple choice exams and one can be an Accredited Product Adviser. As you say quite a few car sales professionals are going that route.

khaldrogo · 15-04-2020 2:06pm

L-M wrote: »

I don’t know any salesman across the country that works 6 days permanently. The worst of it could be 6 days end of December/Jan/Feb. After that it’s 5 days in pretty much every garage with one weekday off, some garages “groups” do 5 days then 6 days.

Every salesman I worked with in my 22 years in the motor trade worked 6 days.

khaldrogo · 15-04-2020 2:08pm

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

I think people think arch tech work is more glamourous/ high paid than it is too.

It's better than selling fecking cars.....

TheBoyConor · 15-04-2020 2:20pm

I particularly like the suggestion that OP could leverage his design and architectural background to try to get into the automotive design side of things. Motor industry in Ireland is small but there might be opportunities, for example with JLR in limerick, and the various component manufacturers such as Autolaunch and Kostal and so on.

L-M · 15-04-2020 4:32pm

khaldrogo wrote: »

Every salesman I worked with in my 22 years in the motor trade worked 6 days.

I am going to assume worked* is the Operative word in that sentence so.

Thinking of moving to the motor trade

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