Google is messing with your search algorithms

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 2:56pm #1

As pointed out by James O Keefe and Project Veritas google was already manipulating it's search algorithms because the algorithms themselves were sexist/racist apparently. Google quickly changed many of the ones pointed out though.

For example; most CEO's are male. When you do a search for CEOs it used to bring up mostly men. Google and others argue this is sexist because it does not give women an idea that they can also be CEOs.

I was just watching an interview with Douglas Murray where he points out new ones(I'm sure to be fixed soon by google).

Just do a search on google images for:

"Gay Couples"
"Straight Couples"
"Black Couples"
"White Couples"

Why is it black people and Asian people are 'allowed' to see couples of themselves but white people are not?

At least with the CEOs it made some sense... This seems to be the silicon valley elite deciding what is hate and what is not and applying it arbitrarily and dangerously.

Boggles · 10-10-2019 2:59pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Just do a search on google images for:

"Gay Couples"
"Straight Couples"
"Black Couples"
"White Couples"

You are grand thanks.

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:06pm

Boggles wrote: »

You are grand thanks.

Black couples brings up black coupless.
Asian couples brings up Asian coupless.
White couples brings up mixed couples.

This is the interview I was listening to. starts 23mins11seconds

"It doesn't occur to most people that when you type something into a search engine, what your getting back isn't true, or isn't real, or isn't representative of what you wanted to get" -Douglas Murray

Boggles · 10-10-2019 3:10pm

Where should this go on the list of things I give an actual fúck about?

You need to get a hobby lad.

riffmongous · 10-10-2019 3:10pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Black couples brings up black coupless.
Asian couples brings up Asian coupless.
White couples brings up mixed couples.

Eh the top results show mixed couples because they're all linking back to your conspiracy theory

Still getting mostly men when I google ceo by the way

sk8erboii · 10-10-2019 3:12pm

Retarded thread. Search algorithms work based on key words. If you type in ‘couple’ youll see theyre all white because this is the default. Adding in ‘white’ inserts tags based on race and shows people from different races.

This thread highlights the stupidity of anyone who buys into the google conspiracy sh*te Gemma O’Doherty rambles on about

riffmongous · 10-10-2019 3:15pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

Retarded thread. Search algorithms work based on key words. If you type in ‘couple’ youll see theyre all white because this is the default. Adding in ‘white’ inserts tags based on race and shows people from different races.

This thread highlights the stupidity of anyone who buys into the google conspiracy sh*te Gemma O’Doherty rambles on about

Yeah it's super white if you just do that

Harvey Weinstein · 10-10-2019 3:16pm

This is what I get when I type in 'White Couples'

Maybe Gemma was on to something

Ballso · 10-10-2019 3:16pm

Boggles wrote: »

You are grand thanks.

You don't need to come into threads you aren't interested in to tell us, thanks

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:18pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Eh the top results show mixed couples because they're all linking back to your conspiracy theory

Still getting mostly men when I google ceo by the way

My conspiracy theory? Did you do a google search for 'white couples'?

hetuzozaho · 10-10-2019 3:20pm

Ballso wrote: »

You don't need to come into threads you aren't interested in to tell us, thanks

I enjoyed his contribution

But Google "manipulating it's search algorithms" is surely Google's job.

I manipulate my algorithms all the time

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:20pm

This is easy to point out with race/gender etc.. but imagine when we can't as easily point to how the algorithm is corrupting what we want to search for?

Is no one upset that this is being done?

By the way I'm mixed race and not white if that helps anyone's morale compasses.

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:21pm

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I enjoyed his contribution

But Google "manipulating it's search algorithms" is surely Google's job.

I manipulate my algorithms all the time

What do you mean when you say manipulate? You don't seem to be using it correctly.

Boggles · 10-10-2019 3:21pm

Ballso wrote: »

You don't need to come into threads you aren't interested in to tell us, thanks

Sterling contribution yourself.

But still, no I'm not googling "Gay Couples" because some re-reg has too much time on their hands and has CT'd themselves retarded.

Harvey Weinstein · 10-10-2019 3:25pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

This is easy to point out with race/gender etc.. but imagine when we can't as easily point to how the algorithm is corrupting what we want to search for?

Is no one upset that this is being done?

By the way I'm mixed race and not white if that helps anyone's morale compasses.

Google has in general, gone to the dogs as a search engine. Its quite often now when I cannot find what I'm looking for.
Topics such as film criticism/theory for example, I often search for this and almost always get results from vacuous mainstream magazine articles rather than serious articles (which I used to always get)

hetuzozaho · 10-10-2019 3:26pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

What do you mean when you say manipulate? You don't seem to be using it correctly.

To manipulate an algorithm I presume you mean alter/edit?

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:28pm

What is the harm people searching for pictures of straight couples?

Harvey Weinstein · 10-10-2019 3:31pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

What is the harm people searching for pictures of straight couples?

Strangely, searching for 'straight couples' brings up quite a lot of Gay couples.

suicide_circus · 10-10-2019 3:31pm

yeah when you just type "couples" its mostly white people

Ballso · 10-10-2019 3:32pm

Boggles wrote: »

Sterling contribution yourself.

But still, no I'm not googling "Gay Couples" because some re-reg has too much time on their hands and has CT'd themselves retarded.

Youre a great lad altogether aren't you? Great for you to have boards.ie to prove to yourself and everyone else how wonderful and right-on you are every day.

Anyway, as technology becomes more and more prevalent in our lives it's important to understand the lenses we view the world through. I don't particularly buy into this example and frankly think deliberate manipulation of algorithms by the far right is a much more pressing issue at the moment.

Ballso · 10-10-2019 3:33pm

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

Strangely, searching for 'straight couples' brings up quite a lot of Gay couples.

Everyone gets different results. Which is kind of the point.

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:34pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

Retarded thread. Search algorithms work based on key words. If you type in ‘couple’ youll see theyre all white because this is the default. Adding in ‘white’ inserts tags based on race and shows people from different races.
This thread highlights the stupidity of anyone who buys into the google conspiracy sh*te Gemma O’Doherty rambles on about

Obviously you are oblivious to "machine learning fairness" probably willfully so.

Your opinion is ignorant.

Harvey Weinstein · 10-10-2019 3:34pm

Ballso wrote: »

Youre a great lad altogether aren't you? Great for you to have boards.ie to prove to yourself and everyone else how wonderful and right-on you are every day.

Anyway, as technology becomes more and more prevalent in our lives it's important to understand the lenses we view the world through. I don't particularly buy into this example and frankly think deliberate manipulation of algorithms by the far right is a much more pressing issue at the moment.

What do you mean by this, as in how do they deliberately manipulate algorithms?

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:34pm

Ballso wrote: »

Everyone gets different results. Which is kind of the point.

I bet everyone has this same thing.

jimgoose · 10-10-2019 3:35pm

This thread haz the Dumb.

Veritas Libertas · 10-10-2019 3:39pm

jimgoose wrote: »

This thread haz the Dumb.

Oh so you must know what ML fairness is, how it is implemented and maybe you can explain the results we are seeing?

Please do tell.

jimgoose · 10-10-2019 3:41pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

Oh so you must know what ML fairness is, how it is implemented and maybe you can explain the results we are seeing?

Please do tell.

It's already been explained to you. The word "white" is generally only mentioned in data/metadata associated with articles and pictures on/of mixed-race couples. And ML "fairness" is generally implemented by bearded dorks beavering away making stupid machines even stupider. And I'd know!

Why, what do you actually think is going on - Google et al going out of it's way to try to make us gay/black/piebald/whatever? Why on Earth would they do such a thing?? :pac:

Skylinehead · 10-10-2019 3:42pm

"Google is messing with your search algorithms"

Google is messing with their search algorithms, which they own. And I'm sure they update them daily, as you would.

What's supposed to be the issue here

BorneTobyWilde · 10-10-2019 3:50pm

Even on youtube it happens, it's like there are only 20 videos on youtube, as they are suggested to me over and over. Would be great to see actual youtube, not my version.

Ballso · 10-10-2019 3:52pm

Harvey Weinstein wrote: »

What do you mean by this, as in how do they deliberately manipulate algorithms?

Plenty of ways. There are bot farms using machine learning to generate social media content, analysing the responses and constantly refining based on the level of engagement etc.

Technology can be used for nefarious purposes, dismissing corporate and political manipulation just because it happens to align with a particular belief system would be a mistake.

This stuff should be thought in schools I think. You can see how hard the older generation fall for it, coming from a place where they don't understand the tech.

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-10-2019 3:52pm

Actually thought the OP was having a laugh, so just now put 'straight couples' in the googlebot box, and whola this is top of the 1st results:

It's no longer great (or acceptable via Google) to be straight.
Down with the straights!

sk8erboii · 10-10-2019 3:54pm

Liliana Tasty Cuttlefish wrote: »

Actually thought the OP was having a laugh, so just now put 'straight couples' in the googlebot box, and whola this is top of the 1st results:

It's no longer great (or acceptable via Google) to be straight.
Down with the straights!

Type in ‘couples’

4068ac1elhodqr · 10-10-2019 3:56pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

Type in ‘couples’

If you search for 'red cars', would you not expect to see cars (bear with me now, for some way far out thinking), that are red?

sk8erboii · 10-10-2019 4:07pm

Liliana Tasty Cuttlefish wrote: »

If you search for 'red cars', would you not expect to see cars (bear with me now, for some way far out thinking), that are red?

Search engine algorithm works on the filenames, tags and surrounding words. It doesnt have a way of knowing what the actual image is. If you type in ‘red car’ you dont get red cars, you get cartoons that have been tagged around ‘red’ and ‘car’

Likewise, if you type in straight couple youre getting images with the word ‘straight couple’ around it. Look at the first image of straight couple it links to an article (for me) titled ‘ What Straight Couples Can Learn From Gay Couples About Relationships’

Theres much more to it, but theres no conspiracy here. Thats how search engines work and you could do it with bing, yahoo, duckduckgo and itll show the same results. (Same as in typing in ‘white couple’ will bring up tags of race and show people from different races).

Ballso · 10-10-2019 4:07pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

"Google is messing with your search algorithms"

Google is messing with their search algorithms, which they own. And I'm sure they update them daily, as you would.

What's supposed to be the issue here

The issue is we've become over reliant on these companies for formulating our world view and are open to manipulation. They are openly censoring things in China for example (not that the Chinese know, they think everything is rosy because there is very little bad news in the internet). Whereas the internet in the West seems to be only bad news.

moonage · 10-10-2019 4:18pm

Apparently, Google thinks that anyone looking for images of "white couples" or "straight couples" are bigots and terrible human beings in general. To teach them a lesson they give them images of black and gay couples instead.

Harry Palmr · 10-10-2019 4:26pm

https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2019/01/google-image-search-results-black-white-couples.html

If you were to type in “black couple” on Google’s image search, you would end up seeing a wide variety of couples who are, in fact, black. However, if you search for “white couple” on Google, what’s going to end up happening is that you are going to end up seeing couples that are interracial, which means that only one of the partners will be white. Many users have been very offended by this, saying that this shows Google’s true agenda, which according to them is race mixing.

Apart from the obvious racist undertones of the backlash around these search results, the reason that this happens is actually quite understandable. Google’s very own Danny Sullivan, who was tagged in a tweet related to the matter, decided to put rumors to rest by explaining why this happens. Apparently when someone uploads a picture of a white couple they don’t use any racial keywords. Basically, white couples are just described as “couples” whereas images of black couples are usually captioned as such. The only time the word “white” tends to get used when describing the couple is when it is an interracial couple, and since Google’s image search looks for keywords it ends up showing you images of interracial couples when you might be looking for a white one. Searching for a couple shows you mostly white couples, which in and of itself shows a racial bias among the users of the internet rather than Google.

If you just type "couple/s" the great majority are white

osarusan · 10-10-2019 4:28pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

https://www.digitalinformationworld.com/2019/01/google-image-search-results-black-white-couples.html

If you just type "couple/s" the great majority are white

No use explaining it to people who simply don't want to know because then they'd have one less thing to bleat about.

Harry Palmr · 10-10-2019 4:34pm

Sure but it's an interesting topic and shows how the perfectly unconscious bias of picture uploaders creates something which some think is a conspiracy. No one types caucasian or European instead of white but that helps to return more white faces. Quite why anyone would be googling couples on a race basis is another matter.

kenmm · 10-10-2019 4:40pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

Google is messing with their search algorithms, which they own. And I'm sure they update them daily, as you would.

You are partially correct here, but google don't update "daily" (or not in the way that I suspect you think).

Google try to find results tailored to YOU. This ins't a conspiracy to change results based on how politically correct they may appear, its simply to make sure they can maximize the profits from their core business.

These results are easily tailored based on the huge amounts of information Google holds on you (or the average user at least). The changing results on more innocent terms like "Gay couple" etc are a by prodcut of this sales customisation and the whole process of Google thinking they know what you want before you even know it.

mcmoustache · 10-10-2019 4:51pm

It's quite amazing how various youtube talking heads have figured out how to maximise outrage enough to get their audience to head off to other forums with the same outrage. That's not to say that the outrage takes hold but it's still impressive.

Chris_Heilong · 10-10-2019 4:57pm

I think google know they are a company of influence and due to this somehow feel it is their responsibility to shape peoples opinions. They will use their product how they see fit with whatever politically ideology they personally hold will be the basis of its implementation regardless of if they realise it themselves or not. Nothing is going to change how they operate and your only choice is to accept the world is full of agendas you do not agree with being pushed and just choose to use the product anyway or find an alternative product that can do something similar.

Of coarse you will get the usual suspects coming out of the wood work denying anything is a foot and calling all those who highlight an issue as being an idiot, conspiracy theorist or one of the many "-isms/-ists" in an attempt to shame instead of actually forming an argument as to why they disagree with the original point.

kenmm · 10-10-2019 5:03pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

I think google know they are a company of influence and due to this somehow feel it is their responsibility to shape peoples opinions.

They don't give a sh!te about "being a company of influence" unless the influence is to increase sales.

They sometimes tweak things that would appear sexist/ offensive etc but only so they don't themselves get bad press.

They are not pushing some happy clappy utopian world, they are the epitome of capitalism.

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Nothing is going to change how they operate and your only choice is to accept the world is full of agendas you do not agree with being pushed and just choose to use the product anyway or find an alternative product that can do something similar.

pretty much..

Wibbs · 10-10-2019 5:14pm

sk8erboii wrote: »

Type in ‘couples’

Yup. I don't use google as I think they're dicks, but the same thing happens in Duckduckgo. Type in couples you get all palefaces, type in "white couple" and you get more dark and mixed couples.

dan1895 · 10-10-2019 5:15pm

Searched for "couples". First five or six are straight and white. The next few are mainly white with a couple of mixed race. A gay couple appears further down. The op's point is ridiculous.

Wibbs · 10-10-2019 5:17pm

kenmm wrote: »

They don't give a sh!te about "being a company of influence" unless the influence is to increase sales.

They sometimes tweak things that would appear sexist/ offensive etc but only so they don't themselves get bad press.

They are not pushing some happy clappy utopian world, they are the epitome of capitalism.

This. For all their right on public pronouncements and beanbags and fancy coffee machines for their drones workers, it's all about the cash. If nazis actually took over them and facebook would have wee swastikas you could like.

Will I Am Not · 10-10-2019 5:26pm

It would be funny to watch it play out if Facebook, Twitter, Google etc. were all bought up by a conservative consortium.
Would we see the “it’s their company, they can do what they like” posts? Doubt it.

10-10-2019 5:37pm

They're not my algorithms, by the way, they're Google's to do with as they see fit.

10-10-2019 5:39pm

Will I Am Not wrote: »

It would be funny to watch it play out if Facebook, Twitter, Google etc. were all bought up by a conservative consortium.
Would we see the “it’s their company, they can do what they like” posts? Doubt it.

I'd wager good money that if they were bought up by a bunch of alt-right, homophobic, misogynists who started tailoring their platform to exclude minorities etc. then people would leave in their droves. I'd almost guarantee it.

It's not just the SJWs who believe that black people or lesbians should be treated with respect and dignity, you know.

kenmm · 10-10-2019 5:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'd wager good money that if they were bought up by a bunch of alt-right, homophobic, misogynists who started tailoring their platform to exclude minorities etc. then people would leave in their droves. I'd almost guarantee it.

It's not just the SJWs who believe that black people or lesbians should be treated with respect and dignity, you know.

It doesnt matter who owns them - if you are the type of person who likes to buy <Insert homophobic products> here, then Google will do their best within the parameters of the law to match you up with those paying to advertise the sort of <Inserted homophobic product> that you want to buy.

If you like making signs and shouting at black and asian people at the the weekend Google don't give a flying fu(k - unless there is an angle to see more marker pens to you.

I'm sure as an employer they promote equality etc - and at the moment the majority believe in equality, therefore the laws of the land promote same so they would prefer to be seen that way - but that has nothing to do with their core business.

mcmoustache · 10-10-2019 5:50pm

Will I Am Not wrote: »

It would be funny to watch it play out if Facebook, Twitter, Google etc. were all bought up by a conservative consortium.
Would we see the “it’s their company, they can do what they like” posts? Doubt it.

The web traffic comparison between wikipedia and conservapedia would give you some idea. Or twitter versus gab. Companies like money. It's kind of their thing and Adam and Steve tend to have more disposable income than Bob and Betty who pray to god every night that their adult children don't come home one day with a black spouse.

Google is messing with your search algorithms

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