Landlord raising rent 45%

Keona12 · 06-10-2019 2:54pm #1

Hi. New to boards. We live in a RPZ, and are living in same place 6 years. Rent hasn't gone up since then. We fix all problem, and never call landlord, no problems. Monday landlord calls and says rent will go up 45 % or else we will get notice saying there will be major refurbishment and we must leave. This is apartment btw. I agree as we are worried about where we can go.

ted1 · 06-10-2019 2:55pm

Keona12 wrote: »

Hi. New to boards. We live in a RPZ, and are living in same place 6 years. Rent hasn't gone up since then. We fix all problem, and never call landlord, no problems. Monday landlord calls and says rent will go up 45 % or else we will get notice saying there will be major refurbishment and we must leave. This is apartment btw. I agree as we are worried about where we can go.

Contact the RTB..

Keona12 · 06-10-2019 2:59pm

ted1 wrote: »

Contact the RTB..

But what can they do? He will jut issue us with the notice of refurbishment and we will have to go

Caranica · 06-10-2019 3:09pm

It's very difficult to achieve the level of major refurbishment needed to fulfil the requirements to allow a rent increase for an apartment

Keona12 · 06-10-2019 3:14pm

Caranica wrote: »

It's very difficult to achieve the level of major refurbishment needed to fulfil the requirements to allow a rent increase for an apartment

So what would happen here then? He just used as threat to get us to pay, but if we don't pay he will get us out somehow I think. That means we have constant worry if we dont pay. We have kids in school near by etc. Really we probably just have to pay?

Portsalon · 06-10-2019 3:30pm

Keona12 wrote: »

Hi. New to boards. We live in a RPZ, and are living in same place 6 years. Rent hasn't gone up since then. We fix all problem, and never call landlord, no problems. Monday landlord calls and says rent will go up 45 % or else we will get notice saying there will be major refurbishment and we must leave. This is apartment btw. I agree as we are worried about where we can go.

Ask the landlord to give you that demand in writing so you can show it to your legal advisers.

Ronin247 · 06-10-2019 3:34pm

If I was in this situation and the Landlord hasn't put his demand in writing, I would pay the increase in rent for a while and then take action against the landlord for overcharging when I have written proof. I would get my money back and have grounds to fight him if he was then trying to use the "renovations" excuse.

It is a little underhanded? but landlords who pull bullsh1t like this are the reason good Landlords get a bad name.

K.Flyer · 06-10-2019 3:44pm

Send your landlord a text or an e-mail asking him to clarify what exactly is he looking for and by what date.
If he replies with the same nonsense again by email or text make sure to save and copy it, then contact threshold and RTB.

Bigmac1euro · 06-10-2019 4:00pm

Pay the 45% now,
Then take him to the cleaners in a few years before you move out and you have some funds towards your new house. Remember your bank statements will show the illegal increase in years to come. If it’s 500 extra a month in 2 years that’s 12,000 you’ve saved this is a nice sum of money to have for the future. Hell you might even get damages as well, think of the money just like he is

ted1 · 06-10-2019 4:13pm

K.Flyer wrote: »

Send your landlord a text or an e-mail asking him to clarify what exactly is he looking for and by what date.
If he replies with the same nonsense again by email or text make sure to save and copy it, then contact threshold and RTB.
Whichever way this swings, your part 4 tenancy is up in approx two years (end of your 2nd 4 year tenancy cycle) and he can legitimately terminate your tenancy by not renewing your lease, so prepare for that if you get into a conflict with him.

It’s a 6 year period now

Fol20 · 06-10-2019 4:23pm

Caranica wrote: »

It's very difficult to achieve the level of major refurbishment needed to fulfil the requirements to allow a rent increase for an apartment

If rent is being increased by circa 50pc. Then it was well below market rate. It may make sense for the ll to renovate the place when it’s that far below market rate.lets say rent is 900 and is now being increased to 1800. ll gets rid of everything in the property incl boiler. Fair enough it will take over a year to recoup everything but the house will also be worth more.

K.Flyer · 06-10-2019 4:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

It’s a 6 year period now

Sorry, you are right, years going by too fast, forgot the change was almost 3 years ago. Post amended, cheers.

FishOnABike · 06-10-2019 5:09pm

Use https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/calculator/rpz to calculate the maximum rent increase permitted. Your LL is looking for far more than the law allows.

Has the increase been requested in writing? Legally it needs to be, acvompanied by three recent examples showing rent for similar properties in the area. The requirements for notice if a rent increase are quite specific and the LL needs to follow those requirements exactly or the notice is not valid.

As another poster has said it would be quite difficult to renovate an apartment to the extent to permit such an increase in rent. Redecorating and refreshing fittings would probably not be enough, there needs to be a change in the nature of the accommodation. Details of the work to be carried out and the, the start date and duration need to be included in the notice as does either a copy of the planning permission or contractor details. The requirements for valid notice are exacting and must be filollowed if the notice is to be valid.

If renovation is used as an excuse to issue notice the LL has to give you first refusal to rent once the renovation us complete. RPZ rent increase limits still apply unless he lets it unoccupied for more than two years. The renovation would have to be a substantial change in the nature of the accommodation to allow for a higher increase and even if this was possible it can still only be to market rates.

If your LL is trying to side step the legislation he is setting himself up for a world of woe. Ensure he is being honest and sticking to his legal obligations. If he is chancing his arm dispute the notice and make a formal complaint to the RTB if necessary.

FishOnABike · 06-10-2019 5:25pm

Portsalon wrote: »

Ask the landlord to give you that demand in writing so you can show it to your legal advisers.

Ronin247 wrote: »

If I was in this situation and the Landlord hasn't put his demand in writing, I would pay the increase in rent for a while and then take action against the landlord for overcharging when I have written proof. I would get my money back and have grounds to fight him if he was then trying to use the "renovations" excuse.

It is a little underhanded? but landlords who pull bullsh1t like this are the reason good Landlords get a bad name.

K.Flyer wrote: »

Send your landlord a text or an e-mail asking him to clarify what exactly is he looking for and by what date.
If he replies with the same nonsense again by email or text make sure to save and copy it, then contact threshold and RTB.

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Pay the 45% now,
Then take him to the cleaners in a few years before you move out and you have some funds towards your new house. Remember your bank statements will show the illegal increase in years to come. If it’s 500 extra a month in 2 years that’s 12,000 you’ve saved this is a nice sum of money to have for the future. Hell you might even get damages as well, think of the money just like he is

Any notice needs to be in writing and comply with all the requirements of the legislation including any accompanying supporting documentation or declarations needed. A verbal notice is no notice. If the LL wants a rent increase it needs to be in writing.

06-10-2019 5:30pm

ted1 wrote: »

It’s a 6 year period now

If the tenancy commenced before December 16, does the 4 yr cycle not apply, or does it change to 6 yr cycle at the end of a 4 yr cycle if it falls after that date?

K.Flyer · 06-10-2019 5:35pm

Dav010 wrote: »

If the tenancy commenced before December 16, does the 4 yr cycle not apply?

It would, but the o.p. said that they have been tenants for 6 years. Their first part 4 would have ended approx 2 years ago, possibly putting them on the post Dec 16 change. Depends really on the exact dates of the o.p.'s contract.
Although, all of that may be a moot point given the current issues.

sk8board · 06-10-2019 11:03pm

LL here.
I haven’t read the whole thread, but I suggest ignoring the OOT reactionary posts.

1. Check on the RTB to ensure your property is registered
2. ask your LL for clarification by email of what the new rent will be.
3. If he sends you the 45% increase, respond that you’ve punched the numbers into the RTB calculator and it says the rent increase should be €x

If he concedes, then all is well (but you’ll still have about 20-25% increase).
If he doesn’t, you need to involve the RTB.

My advice is that whatever you do, follow the steps as set out by the RTB. It’s the same for us LLs - if we don’t follow the correct steps in the correct order, we haven’t a leg to stand on.

Bigmac1euro · 06-10-2019 11:41pm

sk8board wrote: »

If he concedes, then all is well (but you’ll still have about 20-25% increase).
If he doesn’t, you need to involve the RTB.

It’s in an rpz so max increase is 4% no ?

pwurple · 06-10-2019 11:43pm

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

It’s in an rpz so max increase is 4% no ?

Not if last increase was 6 years ago...

Baby01032012 · 07-10-2019 8:08am

Best to do the rtb calculator and see what the new rent would be 6 years and no increase should give a roughly 24% increase.

You are in a second part Iv which I believe is 4 years as original part Iv would have rolled over prior to the increase to 6 years.

Substantial refurbishment is unlikely to be met where it is an apartment under the new rules issued during the summer.

Sit tight. You need to receive a valid notice in writing first and only then have you something to bring to the rtb. I’d have no worries as he has no grounds to ask you to leave or increase rent beyond what the rtb calc says.

terrydel · 07-10-2019 10:28am

Ronin247 wrote: »

If I was in this situation and the Landlord hasn't put his demand in writing, I would pay the increase in rent for a while and then take action against the landlord for overcharging when I have written proof. I would get my money back and have grounds to fight him if he was then trying to use the "renovations" excuse.

It is a little underhanded? but landlords who pull bullsh1t like this are the reason good Landlords get a bad name.

You'd pay 45% increase for a while (how long exactly?) as a means to teach him/her a lesson? How easy and time consuming do you think it would be to get that back, if you ever did get it all back?
You must be made of money, otherwise this is an absurd solution.

terrydel · 07-10-2019 10:30am

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

Pay the 45% now,
Then take him to the cleaners in a few years before you move out and you have some funds towards your new house. Remember your bank statements will show the illegal increase in years to come. If it’s 500 extra a month in 2 years that’s 12,000 you’ve saved this is a nice sum of money to have for the future. Hell you might even get damages as well, think of the money just like he is

How many people can afford to just pay 500euro extra every month just like that? What planet are you living on?

Bigmac1euro · 07-10-2019 9:52pm

terrydel wrote: »

How many people can afford to just pay 500euro extra every month just like that? What planet are you living on?

The OP is already considering it, can you read ?

terrydel · 08-10-2019 8:41am

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

The OP is already considering it, can you read ?

Yes I can, thanks for asking.
Plenty of people consider paying something they feel pressured into, whether they truly can afford to or not.
And the question stands, how many people can just nonchalantly decide to pay an extra 500euro a month in the mere hope they might get it back at some indeterminable point in the future?
Why not address the question, rather than attack the person asking it? Isnt that the boards mantra?

Bigmac1euro · 08-10-2019 10:40am

terrydel wrote: »

Yes I can, thanks for asking.
Plenty of people consider paying something they feel pressured into, whether they truly can afford to or not.
And the question stands, how many people can just nonchalantly decide to pay an extra 500euro a month in the mere hope they might get it back at some indeterminable point in the future?
Why not address the question, rather than attack the person asking it? Isnt that the boards mantra?

The people who are paying below market rates. Like the poster in this case which they’ve already considered.

Del2005 · 09-10-2019 4:11am

pwurple wrote: »

Not if last increase was 6 years ago...

The OP is there 6 years. The rent may not have been raised before they moved in. We've no idea when the last rent review was. So the 45% increase could be legit, provided the LL dots all the i's and crosses all the t's

Tow · 09-10-2019 5:25am

terrydel wrote: »

Bigmac1euro wrote: »

How many people can afford to just pay 500euro extra every month just like that? What planet are you living on?

The real world. A 3% interest rate increase would add ~ €500 a month to a 350k mortgage. Historically 6% interest is nothing unusual.

09-10-2019 8:41am

terrydel wrote: »

And the question stands, how many people can just nonchalantly decide to pay an extra 500euro a month in the mere hope they might get it back at some

If their rent has no increased in the last 6 years, the money they saved during that period will help the with the extra 500euro a month.

CoffeeBean2 · 11-10-2019 10:25pm

OP said the rent was not increased since first moved in. Who is to say that the rent was not at the same level for the ten years before that?

Is it not the case that a LL is allowed to charge 4% per year for each year since the last increase? I'm not aware if the number of years is restricted by the date the current tenant moved in, or if it goes back to the last increase.

L1011 · 11-10-2019 10:40pm

CoffeeBean2 wrote: »

OP said the rent was not increased since first moved in. Who is to say that the rent was not at the same level for the ten years before that?

Is it not the case that a LL is allowed to charge 4% per year for each year since the last increase? I'm not aware if the number of years is restricted by the date the current tenant moved in, or if it goes back to the last increase.

The new tenancy was in effect a rent review under the legislation at that time and resets the date to calculate from.

ted1 · 11-10-2019 10:49pm

CoffeeBean2 wrote: »

OP said the rent was not increased since first moved in. Who is to say that the rent was not at the same level for the ten years before that?

Is it not the case that a LL is allowed to charge 4% per year for each year since the last increase? I'm not aware if the number of years is restricted by the date the current tenant moved in, or if it goes back to the last increase.

Doesn’t work like that , it’s 4% over two years. So max 20% if no increase in 10 years

Claw Hammer · 12-10-2019 5:34pm

ted1 wrote: »

Doesn’t work like that , it’s 4% over two years. So max 20% if no increase in 10 years

That's disgraceful.

gordongekko · 12-10-2019 7:05pm

Love the way decent landlords who only put up the rent once in 6 years are the bad guy

Sarn · 13-10-2019 3:17pm

ted1 wrote: »

Doesn’t work like that , it’s 4% over two years. So max 20% if no increase in 10 years

I hadn’t realised it worked that way. Strange that it’s 4% each year when done annually, but only 4% every two years when backdated.

Edgware · 13-10-2019 6:10pm

gordongekko wrote: »

Love the way decent landlords who only put up the rent once in 6 years are the bad guy

Its a business. Decency doesnt come in to it. The landlord didn't run his business properly and now is breaking the law in an attempt to catch up with the average rents for such properties. This is what happens when you have amateurs running businesses. ( Not that I agree with the savage rental increases of the last few years)

Mic 1972 · 13-10-2019 7:13pm

what is the current rent you are paying if i may ask?
a 45% increase sounds unreasonable unless you are on a very low rent, in which case you need to consider your landlord's concern about bench-marking. I know people who are still paying 850 euro per month for a 1 bed apt in D7, they know a major increase is going to arrive anytime soon and are ready to negotiate but probably will accept a 20% increase which will still keep rent below average

fibix · 13-10-2019 10:54pm

Keona12 wrote: »

Hi. New to boards. We live in a RPZ, and are living in same place 6 years. Rent hasn't gone up since then. We fix all problem, and never call landlord, no problems. Monday landlord calls and says rent will go up 45 % or else we will get notice saying there will be major refurbishment and we must leave. This is apartment btw. I agree as we are worried about where we can go.

Speaking from my own experience, as we are moving back to the refurbished property in RPZ very shortly, after dealing and settling through RTB.

The rent review was not carried out in over 3 years. We received a notice letter asking us to vacate the property due to substantial refurbishment planned. It was written as per requirements in the Residential Tenancies Act (if refurbishment is quoted as the reason, the extent of the works and the contractors must be provided in the letter). The letter was giving 6 months for the works. Also, you will get the first refuse when the property becomes available. We knew our rent was very favourable for the area we live in and the apartment was lovely, even before the works. They could only increase the rent by 4%, so obviously having us moved out was the way to obtain higher rent from a new tenant, because who would be arsed moving out for 6 months and coming back, right? We brought it to RTB as I only moved in 2 months before we got the notice (my housemate was there for over 3 yrs) and the apartment was in really nice repair, so we questioned the validity of the notice: the extension of works and the duration of the refurbishment (you can build a new place in 6 months).
The dispute was opened with RTB and the date of mediation given. The mediation failed so we decided to proceed with tribunal hearing, where we settled on 12 weeks for refurb works and the landlord admitted themselves that the rent can be raised only 4% (in the meantime, June I think, the legislation changed so even with the new tenant, the rent could be raised only 4% in RPZ). So long story short, shortly after the hearing, we got our new contract with rent review. For the very first review, the calculation takes into consideration number of months since the last review, so it's not exactly 4%, can be a bit more. The formula used to calculate the review is in the legislation. The following annual reviews then are 4% increase only.
So we are back to newly refurbished apartment for just over 4% increase, having waited 12 wks to have the work completed. The date of return was agreed before the tribunal and legally binding.

From your story, OP, your landlord is trying to pull a quick one. Don't let them walk over you, ask for having everything in writing and consult RTB, they are helpful in fairness (at least in our case they were).

P.S. There is a clause in legislation, for when more than 4% raise is applicable. For that, the landlord would have to add extra bedrooms, bathrooms etc. and a few other bits. Details here: https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/rent-pressure-zones/?gclid=CjwKCAjwlovtBRBrEiwAG3XJ-9Kn7enT7yAN_grdoVc6Hbf9m1QmjRj9FS3YHOqlsMNiDi_z5jY1KxoC7_MQAvD_BwE

themoone · 15-10-2019 6:23pm

L1011 wrote: »

The new tenancy was in effect a rent review under the legislation at that time and resets the date to calculate from.

Can you please direct me the basis of that in law as I have a similar case and I need clarification.

Landlord raising rent 45%

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