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Andy farrell - overseas players

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    #32
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    beggars_bush wrote: »
    We should be letting more players aged 22/23 go abroad for a few years to develop and then if they are good enough bring them home.

    Too many good players in Ireland not able to get a contract and they are lost to the top level game

    And many of them could have a very good career abroad

    If they are good enough then they'll have a good career abroad if they want to. It's not a case of letting players go, nobody is forcing them to sign contracts with a province! For the players at academy level it would difficult to loan them out for a year as most are engaged in academic studies at the same time.

    The Tadhg Beirnes and Chris Farrells of the Irish rugby world are very rare and in those cases their lack of opportunities in Ireland were mostly due to injury.


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    #33
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    In regards to overseas, it was mentioned a number of times on podcast that Irish player will get offered more wages overseas because they will not play for ireland ....so Zebo is getting extra because Racing know he won’t be missing during 6 nations/WC etc....

    So even if Ireland did turn around and ask Zebo to come would he? It would mean a huge hit in his wages....the money was the reason he left.....

    I don't think we can discount the marketing opportunities here for the top players.

    Jonny Sexton is a household name in Ireland. While at Paris he's virtually a nobody. The same applies to Zebo.


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    #34
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    razorblunt wrote: »
    If Zebo is brought in, was shown to be miles off the pace, would people shut up about it then?

    Kilcoyne is in better condition than him.

    Not a chance, the argument would shift to it being Joe's game plan not suiting him or something.


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    #35
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    Zebo had another horror show in defence at the weekend. I don't know if it's his conditioning, if he's unhappy in Paris, or what, but he's become an absolute liability.


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    #36
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I don't think we can discount the marketing opportunities here for the top players.

    Jonny Sexton is a household name in Ireland. While at Paris he's virtually a nobody. The same applies to Zebo.


    You not see the Paddy Power video? :p


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    #37
    diusmr8a504cvk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭diusmr8a504cvk


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    SOB is still on Dublin....he is still contracted to irfu....he could play if IRFU wanted but he is recovering from injury.....
    Can't think of any other reason why SOB mightn't be involved with the Irish team.
    Nope, nothing at all, nope.


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    #38
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Coraline Ancient U-turn wrote: »
    Can't think of any other reason why SOB mightn't be involved with the Irish team.
    Nope, nothing at all, nope.

    It's because of injury.


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    #39
    diusmr8a504cvk
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,959 ✭✭✭diusmr8a504cvk


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's because of injury.
    And if he wasn't injured he'd be on the plane because he hasn't done anything absolutely inexcusable that would've seen him be the subject of a witch-hunt in any other sport.


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    #40
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Coraline Ancient U-turn wrote: »
    And if he wasn't injured he'd be on the plane because he hasn't done anything absolutely inexcusable that would've seen him be the subject of a witch-hunt in any other sport.

    but he IS injured.... so ...... everything else is hypothetical


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    #41
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    SOB would 100% be in Japan if not injured


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    #42
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    JJJackal wrote: »
    SOB would 100% be in Japan if not injured


    Of course he would......


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    #43
    JJJackal
    Registered Users Posts: 1,016 ✭✭✭JJJackal


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Of course he would......

    You think if SOB was injury free he wouldnt be playing for Ireland at this WC?

    If he wasnt so injury prone he would still be at Leinster


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    #44
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    JJJackal wrote: »
    You think if SOB was injury free he wouldnt be playing for Ireland at this WC?

    If he wasnt so injury prone he would still be at Leinster


    I knw he would be and one of the first names on the plane.....


    And yes he would still be at Leinster but unfortunealty for him and rugby he has had a bad run


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    #45
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    He would have certainly solved the backrow conundrum we now have and provided some extra leadership in high pressure situations but sure injuries are cruel like that


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    #46
    Snickers Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭Snickers Man


    joseywhales wrote: »
    He would have certainly solved the backrow conundrum we now have and provided some extra leadership in high pressure situations but sure injuries are cruel like that

    Back row is certainly our biggest problem in this world cup. No specialist No 8. Only five flankers in the squad and one of them (Murphy) is crocked at the time of writing. So we only have Van der Flier, O'Mahony, CJ and Ruddock as our real back row options with Beirne and Henderson on standby to fill in.

    So yeah, even a fit if still "shadow of his former self" Sean O/Brien would be in the squad but he's crocked. As is Leavey, which is by far the bigger loss at this stage.

    Who's next for call up if Murphy is out? Tommy O'Donnell? Max Deegan?


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    #47
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    In Premiership

    For the Bristol/L.Irish game we had this week

    1) Sheedy on the bench
    2) Macken starting
    3) Piers O'conor starting
    4) Gilsenan starting
    5) Joyce starting

    In the 5 other games I've spotted

    1) Charlie Mulchrone on the bench for Quins
    2) Michael Heaney starting for Worcester
    3) Jordan Coghlan starting for Leicester (plays 7 or 8)

    (I didn't forget Whitten/Steenson/Muldowney, but they are too old to come now)


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    #48
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Former Former wrote: »
    Zebo had another horror show in defence at the weekend. I don't know if it's his conditioning, if he's unhappy in Paris, or what, but he's become an absolute liability.

    he scored 16 tries last season. How many horror shows has Kearney had at this stage in his career? Quite a few despite his tactical nous.

    People just have it in for Zebo for no reason

    we're crying out for that back 3 type player who could give us something different.

    Joe superfans are just refusing to see it at this stage they are that blinkered.

    Larmour badly in need of a coach that backs his talent. I think its being slowly coached out of him.

    Can only hope Farrell ditches the gameplan.


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    #49
    DelBoy Trotter
    Registered Users Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭DelBoy Trotter


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    People just have it in for Zebo for no reason

    People have it in for Zebo as he's sh!t! He's had some great moments over the last few years, but his defense is very poor, and he's not reliable. I haven't seen him play yet this season, but last season he had also gained a good few pounds and looked unfit


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    #50
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    DelBoy Trotter wrote: »
    People have it in for Zebo as he's sh!t! He's had some great moments over the last few years, but his defense is very poor, and he's not reliable. I haven't seen him play yet this season, but last season he had also gained a good few pounds and looked unfit

    Joe doesn't like him and vice versa. he's gone. And yeah his body shape isn't great. But people applying standards to certain players and not others is a bloody joke at this stage. Kearney, POM springs to mind.


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    #51
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    People just have it in for Zebo for no reason

    I don’t like Zebo because he clearly has a planet sized ego and very much over rates himself. Not to mention his constant whingeing in the media about not getting picked when he knew well what the rules were upon his departure - obviously can’t stand not being the centre of attention and he just comes off bitter.

    Finally I really didn’t like seeing him going on about how he felt shackled by Schmidt and the he couldn’t play freely, when Schmidt is literally the only coach he’s ever won anything under. The cheek of him, average player.


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    #52
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    he scored 16 tries last season. How many horror shows has Kearney had at this stage in his career? Quite a few despite his tactical nous.

    People just have it in for Zebo for no reason

    we're crying out for that back 3 type player who could give us something different.

    Joe superfans are just refusing to see it at this stage they are that blinkered.

    Larmour badly in need of a coach that backs his talent. I think its being slowly coached out of him.

    Can only hope Farrell ditches the gameplan.


    Horror show from Kearney? now my memory aint good but please remind me?


    Zebo was huegly overrated by one province. Yes he was talented but he was never in the World Class bracket, he could have been but he wasn't bothered. His move to France was nothing to do with Joe, he was radio years ago when Joe was manager of Leinster saying he would move to France. He always wanted to play in France.

    Larmour plays for Leinster with one of the best coaching set up in Europe????

    We will see what Farrell does, I doubt he will comepletly ditch a game plan which won a Grand slam.....

    Also are we trying to say any player that doesn't get picked that Joe doesn't "like" them?


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    #53
    Niallof9
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭Niallof9


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Horror show from Kearney? now my memory aint good but please remind me?

    defensive horror shows. Oh i don't know there's a few. Argentina 2015 wasn't great. Yeah we know he's a world class fielder and goalkeeping fullback. He's poor in tackle technique at times and he's woeful in attack unless its set up on a plate for him.

    Zebo was huegly overrated by one province. Yes he was talented but he was never in the World Class bracket, he could have been but he wasn't bothered. His move to France was nothing to do with Joe, he was radio years ago when Joe was manager of Leinster saying he would move to France. He always wanted to play in France.

    Larmour plays for Leinster with one of the best coaching set up in Europe????

    We will see what Farrell does, I doubt he will comepletly ditch a game plan which won a Grand slam.....

    Also are we trying to say any player that doesn't get picked that Joe doesn't "like" them?

    Oh i don't know lets say 2015 against Argentina?

    no as i said before i know people involved in Leinster, Munster and Ireland. Co-incidental that he dropped the z? no Schmidt hates players celebrating etc. Its clear in interviews with zebo as well. Uses Penney to stick the knife in.

    Zebo isn't overrated in fact he's underrated. And you have to think about it at this stage is there a little bit of cause he's different. He's best mates with Murray and POM so the lads like him. He'd be a second playmaker bit of zip i nthe backline. He's not fast again i've been told by the people in set ups that his 40 metre times are actually poor.

    So you think Andy should stick with our non attacking game?

    Leinster are the one of the best set ups yes. But Joe has calls over the little details. I think its quite obvious he's had Larmour hold back

    Look we'll never agree and while i hope we win the world cup i would also be happy to say i told you so.

    Its been done to death.

    Some people will never dare criticise Kearney, POM true liginds, but have free reign on people like Zebo, and munster had it in for Heaslp etc.

    we'll stop it there though as it's been done to death and i'm sure bans could be dished out for a zebo v kearney debate.


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    #54
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Niallof9 wrote: »
    He'd be a second playmaker bit of zip i nthe backline. .

    at this stage he needs velcro rather than zips :p


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    #55
    connachta
    Registered Users Posts: 7,965 ✭✭✭connachta


    Still very promising former Munster/Connacht/Leinster players are playing for Nottingham tomorrow : Betts/J.Connolly/O.Heffernan


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    #56
    tototoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭tototoe


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    We will see what Farrell does, I doubt he will comepletly ditch a game plan which won a Grand slam.....

    I hope he does. If were still trying to play a game from a few years ago its all the one tbh. We definitely need to change our game plan.
    If he doesnt bring a new approach he shouldnt be there. We are not exactly setting the world alight with our current efforts and havent since 2018.


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    #57
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    tototoe wrote: »
    I hope he does. If were still trying to play a game from a few years ago its all the one tbh. We definitely need to change our game plan.
    If he doesnt bring a new approach he shouldnt be there. We are not exactly setting the world alight with our current efforts and havent since 2018.

    It’s the same post just another username.....

    Tell you what? Tell me the game plan we currently play?

    The game plan from a few years ago?

    And the game plan you should like to see going forward?


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    #58
    tototoe
    Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭tototoe


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    It’s the same post just another username.....

    Tell you what? Tell me the game plan we currently play?

    The game plan from a few years ago?

    And the game plan you should like to see going forward?

    Jesus you're like a 15 year old Conor McGregor fan. Can't see anything wrong

    I don't see a discernible game plan in 2019 tbh.. I think we look rudderless and have done throughout the 6 nations and into the wc..

    To briefly answer your question...

    Id like to see a game plan where we are not asking a 37 yo hooker to captain the team and play at wc level at that age when he is clearly not up to it on a consistent basis

    or we're not wrapping our 'best' player in bubble wrap every 2nd game in case he might break....and considering his back ups are either as injury prone, not fully fit or not anywhere near the same level

    Or not bring Henshaw who hasn't even been on the field yet for the first 3 games of a wc, because you know ..he's great

    or we play players in a bit of form, not hoping they might get some by playing badly...considering we have our ' best squad ever'.

    If our 'star' players aren't up to it, and some are clearly not at the.moment then use someone else and not say a few rosaries and put out the Child of Prague in the hope they come good which is what seems to be happening here.


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    #59
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    tototoe wrote: »
    or we're not wrapping our 'best' player in bubble wrap every 2nd game in case he might break....and considering his back ups are either as injury prone, not fully fit or not anywhere near the same level

    Lets assume this is all true, whats your solution? This isnt club rugby, we cant just go buy a world class 10.

    Maybe not flogging sexton for 80 minutes in every game is the best approach. Could be the reason you're on the internet complaining about it and Schmidt is in Japan making the decisions.


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    #60
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    JJJackal wrote: »
    SOB would 100% be in Japan if not injured
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Of course he would......

    I'm sure he would be over there but he's nowhere near the player he used to be. Leavy is a better player these days and a bigger loss.


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    #61
    PhlegmyMoses
    Registered Users Posts: 11,906 ✭✭✭✭PhlegmyMoses


    tototoe wrote: »
    Jesus you're like a 15 year old Conor McGregor fan. Can't see anything wrong

    I don't see a discernible game plan in 2019 tbh.. I think we look rudderless and have done throughout the 6 nations and into the wc..

    To briefly answer your question...

    Id like to see a game plan where we are not asking a 37 yo hooker to captain the team and play at wc level at that age when he is clearly not up to it on a consistent basis

    or we're not wrapping our 'best' player in bubble wrap every 2nd game in case he might break....and considering his back ups are either as injury prone, not fully fit or not anywhere near the same level

    Or not bring Henshaw who hasn't even been on the field yet for the first 3 games of a wc, because you know ..he's great

    or we play players in a bit of form, not hoping they might get some by playing badly...considering we have our ' best squad ever'.

    If our 'star' players aren't up to it, and some are clearly not at the.moment then use someone else and not say a few rosaries and put out the Child of Prague in the hope they come good which is what seems to be happening here.

    That's not a gameplan. Your issue is with personnel, not the gameplan itself


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