The Irishman (Scorsese, De Niro, Pesci and Pacino)

Agent Coulson · 31-07-2019 1:50pm

The deaging looks good they don't over do it.

Great to see Pesci on the screen again after one film and one cameo in 20 years.

pixelburp · 31-07-2019 1:53pm

Looks like a mashup of many classic Scorcese films, but as the last moment was an example of the de-ageing, that's my first reaction. The CGI looks bloody awful; I hope it's a WIP, but how often does it ever get better?

Technocentral · 31-07-2019 3:08pm

De-ageing and aging was never and will never be convincing, you look at the "younger" person but your mind knows they are 75 or whatever and vice versa.

pixelburp · 31-07-2019 3:12pm

Technocentral wrote: »

De-ageing and aging was never and will never be convincing, you look at the "younger" person but your mind knows they are 75 or whatever and vice versa.

Naw, Captain Marvel showed it could be done; maybe the big cinema screen wasn't a 1080p laptop monitor, but the work done with Jackson was uncanny (the same done to Clark Gregg wasn't as great, ditto Michael Douglas in EndGame). That same film had a fully CGI cat in it & I didn't notice, so the bar has been raised IMO.

Autecher · 31-07-2019 3:14pm

pixelburp wrote: »

That same film had a fully CGI cat in it.

Seriously? Wow! What was the reason for doing it that way do you know?

Mickeroo · 31-07-2019 3:14pm

pixelburp wrote: »

Naw, Captain Marvel showed it could be done; maybe the big cinema screen wasn't a 1080p laptop monitor, but the work done with Jackson was uncanny (the same done to Clark Gregg wasn't as great, ditto Michael Douglas in EndGame). That same film had a fully CGI cat in it & I didn't notice, so the bar has been raised IMO.

The cat was entirely CG? I knew there some parts where it had to be but I thought surely when they were picking it up and that it was a real one.

pixelburp · 31-07-2019 3:24pm

Autecher wrote: »

Seriously? Wow! What was the reason for doing it that way do you know?

Mickeroo wrote: »

The cat was entirely CG? I knew there some parts where it had to be but I thought surely when they were picking it up and that it was a real one.

Well the classic line in Hollywood is "never work with children or animals". I guess if you can recreate a realistic looking feline you don't have to struggle with the vagaries of a real one.

I don't know the precise percentage so 'entirely' is probably untrue, but there was a showreel of FX that showed a few scenes - not action ones either - where Goose was a CGI character (only recall Nick Fury cooing over a 'cat' in his lap)

pixelburp · 31-07-2019 3:27pm

Ah here we are: 8 minute puffery video from Marvel, but if you go to about 7 minutes in they talk about the cat. Apparently there were approx. 100 shots featuring 'the cat', with about 70 of them being CG. 7:30 you can see Sam Jackson stroking a CGI Goose (looks a bit freaky given they show the modelled skeleton n' all)

sky88 · 31-07-2019 3:37pm

ill wait to see film before going to strong on de ageing but i thought film looks very good

on the cgi cat i think brie larson is allergic to cats so couldnt be around them

pixelburp · 31-07-2019 3:43pm

Oh yeah, I think the rest of the film looks strong: Scorsese going back to waters very familiar to him (which is ironically, considering the distribution being used & technology on display), and the film otherwise looks to have a bold, forceful & colourful palette. Just at first blush the de-ageing looks very rough - and is worrying given it'll likely be in a lot of the final film.

Beechwoodspark · 31-07-2019 3:49pm

Folks I’m old school I want to see this in the cinema preferably biggest screen they have

So will this be getting a cinema release in Ireland do you think ?

Shred · 31-07-2019 4:54pm

It looks great other than the de-aging, particularly the last shots of De Niro speaking on the phone.

Skerries · 31-07-2019 7:17pm

Ould Fellas

Goodshape · 31-07-2019 7:46pm

The deaging effects were fine in Captain Marvel but Jackson still moved like an old man. I didn't really buy it.

Looking forward to a new Scorsese film though. Whatever age they seem to be.

El Duda · 01-08-2019 8:37am

Is it just me that thinks the de-aging looks almost immaculate?!

TheIrishGrover · 01-08-2019 11:13am

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh yeah, I think the rest of the film looks strong: Scorsese going back to waters very familiar to him (which is ironically, considering the distribution being used & technology on display), and the film otherwise looks to have a bold, forceful & colourful palette. Just at first blush the de-ageing looks very rough - and is worrying given it'll likely be in a lot of the final film.

My big takewway from this was that I never saw DeNiro actually SPEAK on the phone. There may have been half a word that you saw but that was it.

I mean it's obviously got a good pedigree, they have obviously put the money and effort into it but I'm very wary. Sam Jackson's de-aging looked very good in Captain Marvel but then Coulson (Clark Gregg) looked terrible.

I believe this is supposed to span a long time (Was that Anna Paquin and I'm assuming the girl was her younger) so we will see different stages. The trailer was obviously going: Look it's 80's Scorsese DeNiro. But I believe,even if it's 100% perfect, we will be distracted by the effects and it will limit our ability to fully engage with the movie. Will you be looking at CG-Niro or DeNiro or (Hopefully) DeNiro's character? I believe we will be seeing CG-Niro and not his character

Goodshape · 01-08-2019 11:26am

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

Will you be looking at CG-Niro or DeNiro or (Hopefully) DeNiro's character? I believe we will be seeing CG-Niro and not his character

That's definitely the worry at the moment. It is Scorsese, though! The guy knows a thing or two about making movies, so here's hoping the occasional glassy eye or waxy looking face is less of an issue when it's all put together.

In contrast to a Marvel film where "look at the FX!" is often a big part of the draw.

pixelburp · 01-08-2019 11:39am

Scorsese knows a bit about making movies, but it's fair to speculate he might be a little behind the curve on the movie magic of de-ageing; heck it's debatable how much of a hand he has in it. Quite possibly, he might have shot all the 'yesteryear' material under the promise from his FX Wizards they'd make DeNiro look 30 years younger in post-production. Wouldn't be the first time the FX couldn't deliver what was promised, and a lot of modern production passes the buck sideways to FX studios...

I go so far as to say the fact we're even talking about the de-ageing means it has already failed (assuming it isn't going to be further massaged between now and 'release'). The best FX are the ones you just don't notice.

TheIrishGrover · 01-08-2019 11:54am

pixelburp wrote: »

I go so far as to say the fact we're even talking about the de-ageing means it has already failed (assuming it isn't going to be further massaged between now and 'release'). The best FX are the ones you just don't notice.

With regards to the de-aging, yeah, I'm sure he was just told: Look, just film it as you want. We'll take care of the rest.

Regarding the fact that we are talking about it, yeah, I agree. the best FX are the ones you don't even notice or notice and just.... accept.

I remember seeing Golum in the cinema (An effect that still holds up 95% of the time today). I remember seeing Golum and, after the initial shock of how well done he was, you saw him as a character not an effect.

The problem is when the face is one you know. From the laughable (even at the time) Rock in The Scorpion King to Mark Ruffalo's Hulk in Avengers Endgame.

The Hulk was startlingly well done. Every facial movement perfect. It was actually distractingly well done. Admitadly that may have been down to the fact that the CHARACTER of The Hulk suddenly became more expressive (As pointed out by Valkyrie: "I think I liked you better either of the other ways").

So, while I think we are there with 100% convincing non-human CGI characters, generating faces we know still has that Uncanny Valley issue when presented front and centre under close observation. They are 99% there but that 1% is the killer. They'll get there but......

cdgalwegian · 01-08-2019 2:09pm

There's a lot of talk about the de-aging involved in this. What worries me more is the term 'passion project' used by many to describe it. That tends to trigger warning lights for me.

El Duda · 01-08-2019 3:31pm

Silence was his passion project.

People applying it to this are just being lazy/using a cliche buzzword.

Shred · 01-08-2019 3:43pm

TheIrishGrover wrote: »

My big takewway from this was that I never saw DeNiro actually SPEAK on the phone. There may have been half a word that you saw but that was it.

There's about 1-2 seconds in the trailer, from 1:39-1:43, that looks very dodgy/robotic where he says "Yes I would. Whatever you need me to do, I'm available". His hand is obscuring his mouth for the first part of the dialog but the last part doesn't look great at all.

It's funny, when I heard they were doing this I thought it might work but now I've seen a little bit of it I can't help but think they should have cast younger actors for the, er, older scenes a la Goodfellas. It'll be such a shame if it doesn't work as I think the rest of it looks great.

pixelburp · 01-08-2019 3:47pm

There's another de-ageing film making the rounds as well, it's clearly "in"; Will Smith fights a younger version of himself in Ang Lee's "The Gemini Man". The de-ageing is pretty good in most places, bar a few moments (hilariously, the CGI is more obvious in the floaty action set-pieces

) so I don't think it's simply a case of "knowing" what the younger version of an actor is meant to look like.

Like most things in life, the quality of the FX probably comes down to the classic conundrum: you can have it quick, cheap, or good; but you can only choose two.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6orc_lHvJKY

cdgalwegian · 01-08-2019 5:09pm

El Duda wrote: »

Silence was his passion project.

People applying it to this are just being lazy/using a cliche buzzword.

I had Silence in mind; I actually turned it off after about 1/2 hour. Just couldn't get into it. In this regard, I hope then you're right, and it isn't a passion project of his, as being in this frame of mind tends to de-focus from 'the vision thing'; there's too much emotional attachment, especially when they get dragged out over time. Not in every director's passion projects, but for most.

El Duda · 01-08-2019 5:10pm

Was the terrible looking make-up in Back to the Future met with such derision when that came out?

The effects look fine. You're over analyzing it.

TheIrishGrover · 02-08-2019 1:32pm

El Duda wrote: »

Was the terrible looking make-up in Back to the Future met with such derision when that came out?

The effects look fine. You're over analyzing it.

For me it's not a case of "over analyzing it", it's a case of it sticking out like a sore thumb for me and pulling me out of the experience. I'm not sitting there stroking my pointy beard going "Hmmmmmm.... That tiny little fleck of skin there should have been here". It's a case of "Agggghhhhh. What the hell? There is something wrong. I don't know exactly what it is but it's making my eyeball twitch". I get distracted when I see that actors eyelines are not matching up with a digital character or if a character doesn't have "weight". It's probably a slight form of OCD specific to animation

- Even though I'm not that neat and tidy and I couldn't draw a straight line with a ruler, a laser and a pencil with the world's best eraser. It's not a deliberate thing.

I was distracted initially by the start of Spiderman - Into the Spiderverse because the Miles Morales character wasn't animated as fluidly as others until I noticed that it was better when he was in his spiderman outfit and got smoother as it went on. I put this down to an intentional thing and then this was confirmed by the animators afterwards. He started at 18 Frames Per Second and progressed to 24 FPS as he got more confident. Amazing attention to detail on their part.

Anyway. For many it won't be an issue but I'm just concerned that it'll drive me crazy.

Hangdogroad · 08-08-2019 12:32am

The chap Frank Sheeran whom this film is inspired by seems to have been something of a fantasist by all accounts. The trailer, if I'm reading it right seems to imply that he had something to do with JFK's assassination, I hope Scorsese isn't going down the Oliver Stone route of wild conspiracy theories.

Agent Coulson · 27-08-2019 7:06pm

Netflix Sets November 1 Theatrical Bow For Martin Scorsese-Directed ‘The Irishman:’ 27-Day U.S. & UK Rollout Comes Before Pic Streams For Thanksgiving Holiday

In its most ambitious ever theatrical rollout plan for one of its original productions, Netflix will give The Irishman a 27-day theatrical window before the film makes its streaming service bow November 27. Netflix will launch on November 1 in Los Angeles and New York the epic crime drama that reunites director Martin Scorsese and Robert De Niro for the first time in 24 years, in the Steven Zaillian-scripted adaptation of the Charles Brandt novel about the disappearance of former Teamsters leader Jimmy Hoffa. The film will add screens in the U.S. and expand to UK theaters on November 8.

While the screen counts aren’t set yet, the film will be in theaters in most major U.S. cities by the time it begins streaming on Netflix the day before Thanksgiving. Netflix will promote The Irishman with heavy P&A and endeavor to hold and even expand its movie screen presence after the film expands to the streaming service.

https://deadline.com/2019/08/the-irishman-netflix-november-1-theatrical-bow-martin-scorsese-robert-deniro-27-day-us-uk-rollout-stream-thanksgiving-holiday-1202704994/

JP Liz V1 · 28-08-2019 4:00pm

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/netflix-forgoes-wide-release-martin-scorseses-irishman-1234382

It will debut Nov. 27 on Netflix

LGadd14 · 25-09-2019 6:58pm

The Lighthouse cinema is screening this on Sunday October 13th at 7pm, just under a month ahead of its theatrical bow. Tickets are available now.
https://lighthousecinema.ie//showing/showing-51843

pixelburp · 26-09-2019 2:43pm

New trailer has dropped, with even more CGI: definitely beginning to think the reach exceeded the grasp here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHXxVmeGQUc

Arghus · 26-09-2019 4:07pm

I know, I watched the trailer earlier and at times De Niro's digitally altered face was just too distracting to think about anything else.

Thought the trailer was fairly underwhelming. Is this movie going to be a turkey?

correction · 26-09-2019 4:10pm

I was sensing a dud early on with this and the trailers certainly aren't doing anything to change my mind.

Arghus · 26-09-2019 4:15pm

What is the story with a cinema release over here for this? I'd rather watch it in the cinema than on my TV.

johnny_ultimate · 26-09-2019 4:17pm

Arghus wrote: »

What is the story with a cinema release over here for this? I'd rather watch it in the cinema than on my TV.

Should be getting one in early November. Lighthouse is showing it on October 13th to coincide with the European premiere in London.

26-09-2019 5:22pm

I am just happy I get to see all these great actors together, directed by a master. Trailer looks intriguing to me.

The CGI hasn't even made me blink. Couldnt care less about it unless Al and De Niro suddenly launch 100 feet into the air and starting fighting in the sky. Then I will likely mentally check out...

Pinkman · 26-09-2019 8:36pm

Sold out already. What are the odds of them adding a second screening?

Agent Coulson · 26-09-2019 10:33pm

I liked the trailer and just seeing Pesci on screen again was great.

Tipsy McSwagger · 27-09-2019 7:46am

Their heads look weird but I’m still really looking forward to this.

Mr Regal · 27-09-2019 9:49pm

I wasn't too hot for this movie but the trailers in my opinion look good. The book itself wasn't amazing, a lot of information there but gives a good account of Sheeran and Hoffas relationship.
Even with the de-aging, DeNiro looks too old to play Frank Sheeran IMO.
But as a Mob movie fan I look forward to its release.

Arghus · 28-09-2019 6:11am

Okay, first reviews are in and people seem pleased.

Shred · 29-09-2019 11:25am

Yeah, there’s a bit of Oscar buzz already. I just saw the runtime too - 3 hours and 29 minutes! :eek: I’m going to have to catch it at the cinema all the same.

correction · 29-09-2019 11:30am

correction wrote: »

I was sensing a dud early on with this and the trailers certainly aren't doing anything to change my mind.

It thankfully looks like I called it wrong.

Agent Coulson · 10-10-2019 12:28pm

The film is going to get a month long run on Broadway after major theaters chains refuse to screen it.

I'm sure Scorsese will love the grandness of having the film in an old theater on Broadway.

Beechwoodspark · 10-10-2019 12:28pm

So will it get a release over here ?

Agent Coulson · 10-10-2019 12:29pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So will it get a release over here ?

The Lighthouse is showing it not sure if others are but I would guess it will get a limited time general release around the Country in a few of the chains.

johnny_ultimate · 10-10-2019 12:38pm

Yeah Netflix has abandoned its complete aversion to theatrical releases and is now giving most of their major films some sort of limited release. If cinemas accept the month long window before streaming, they can screen it. Lighthouse has no qualms with it - they’ve shown The Laundromat and The King also on the way. Curious to see who else picks this up.

BaZmO* · 10-10-2019 2:37pm

johnny_ultimate wrote: »

Yeah Netflix has abandoned its complete aversion to theatrical releases and is now giving most of their films some sort of limited release.

That's so it can be considered for an Oscar

johnny_ultimate · 10-10-2019 2:53pm

BaZmO* wrote: »

That's so it can be considered for an Oscar

No doubt an influence, but they’re giving ten films a theatrical release in the latter half of this year (in the US anyway, and at least a couple of them over here too). Compared to last year - when they basically gave Roma a reluctant release, kicking and screaming, and bare minimum releases for a handful of others - it’s a shift in strategy. Potential Oscar glory certainly a key motivator, but a notable and welcome shift regardless

Ipso · 10-10-2019 4:42pm

There's already sequel talk.

The Irishman (Scorsese, De Niro, Pesci and Pacino)

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