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M28 - Cork to Ringaskiddy [advance works pending; 2024 start]

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    #632
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    marno21 wrote: »
    I have posted quite a lot on this thread in the past, however recently I have been commuting on the N28 (or actively avoiding doing that) and I’ve observed a few things. Perhaps a few other Carrigaline area commuters may want to weigh in

    1. Whilst the climbing lane north of Maxol is useful for overtaking trucks outside of peak times, it actively contributes to congestion at peak times. It’s far too short and cars shoot out into the overtaking lane before having to brake and merge back in 400m up the road. Especially in wet conditions it causes massive accordion type braking and creates a needless phantom jam. Perhaps designating it as a bus lane at peak times may resolve the issue

    2. The segregated M28N -> N40W will be a huge help around Bloomfield, there’s far too much happening in such a short distance at present between the Maryborough slip, Rochestown on ramp and Bloomfield diverge. Having an exclusive M28N -> N40E lane will also help as traffic often queues back onto the single lane N28 caused by congestion on the N40 East lane due to Jack Lynch Tunnel congestion. The increased use of the Maryborough on ramp by Douglas traffic at present due to the road closure from the fire isn’t helping either

    3. Unless it’s properly addressed, the Douglas flyover is going to become the most constrained stretch of road in Ireland. It is a massive bottleneck and will have to be widened to 3 lanes at some stage. The lack of alternative east west crossing points in the area is a massive contributor here also

    All of what you’re saying is valid. The pinch point with the Douglas flyover though would take slot of work to sort out. Some will propose reducing the number of vehicles on our roads as a way of reducing this problem but I don’t agree with that plus it’s a separate discussion.


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    #633
    hans aus dtschl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,069 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    Some will propose reducing the number of vehicles on our roads as a way of reducing this problem but I don’t agree with that plus it’s a separate discussion.

    It's a totally separate discussion. It's an important discussion but it's a totally separate one.

    I'd like to see some/all of the sustainable transport parts of CMATS implemented before Douglas gets three lanes.
    I'd also prefer to see N40 Northern Section and the Northern and Southern Distributors implemented before Douglas gets three lanes. I accept fully that this could be the biggest bottleneck in the country, but I don't accept that it should "jump the queue" because of that: it just feels like a plaster on a gaping wound: it's a single point-of-failure.


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    #634
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    danny004 wrote: »
    but whats the intended purpose of the date ie is it to have all parties in a courtroom to deliver a judgement or is it just an estimated date that a judgement will be delivered by in some form of written communication

    You won't know until the day. If the court is ready to give its decision on the day it will do so, if not a further date will be set.

    I can't link to the page on the High Court site, so instead I am attaching the Listing Tab for the case.

    Note that the "HIGH COURT ADVANCE WARNING LIST" issued on 7th October 2019 showed the case listed for 17th October, so the change to the 28th November is a recent one.


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    #635
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,546 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    I hope the M28 delay had nothing to do with the job losses at Novartis.


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    #636
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    I hope the M28 delay had nothing to do with the job losses at Novartis.

    I hope thst isn’t used as leverage to justify stopping it


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    #637
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    500 new jobs announcement the previous week in janssen, so it somewhat levels out, traffic-wise anyway.


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    #638
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    pwurple wrote: »
    500 new jobs announcement the previous week in janssen, so it somewhat levels out, traffic-wise anyway.

    Forgot about that


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    #639
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    I don't think its feasible for any more traffic growth on the route. Every new car is displaced by one taking an alternative route or driving elsewhere.


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    #640
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    I hope the M28 delay had nothing to do with the job losses at Novartis.
    More to do with globally massive over capacity in traditional processes of small molecule compound drugs and the lack of R&D investment in finding new drugs via this method of production across all pharma and the continuing focus on both bio and stem cell R&D which requires a different type of manufacturing facility like Jansen and Bio Marin.
    outside of this thread ,mount oval and n28 daily commuters and I know some will find this appallingly hard to believe the M28 or lack of is not that big a deal especially to the Novartis CET in Basil Switzerland


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    #641
    mikeym
    Registered Users Posts: 3,984 ✭✭✭mikeym


    Carrs Hill has gotten so bad during rush hour that people are resorting to using the smaller roads which increases traffic for the Rochestown/Maryborough Hill residents.

    If the motorway is built its less cars passing by these residential areas.


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    #642
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,348 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    mikeym wrote: »
    Carrs Hill has gotten so bad during rush hour that people are resorting to using the smaller roads which increases traffic for the Rochestown/Maryborough Hill residents.

    If the motorway is built its less cars passing by these residential areas.

    Me being one of them. Either Ballinrea Road onto Douglas west or turn left at the top of Carrs Hill, onto the N28 for a few hundred metres, Douglas exit and down through Rochestown onto the N40 Westbound


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    #643
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    From "the objectors" Facebook page. I'm curious as to the bit in bold.
    UPDATE
    The Courts Services has informed our legal team that the above matter is listed 'For Mention' only on Thursday, 28th November 2019 at 11 am. Despite speculation locally and in the media that a decision is imminent we have absolutely no confirmation from the courts services that Mr Justice McGrath is in a position to deliver his judgement on the 28th November next. In fact our current understanding is that Court may (and I use this word advisably) be seeking answers to certain points raised during the hearing proper.....this is pure speculation as the case has been listed for mention only and nothing else.


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    #644
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    From "the objectors" Facebook page. I'm curious as to the bit in bold.

    this would be my guess and only a guess. The court must be interacting with TII on some level looking for clarifications and if that was the case that would be bad for the objectors


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    #645
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Steering group saying no decision on M28 by Thursday but expecting one before Christmas


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    #646
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    The date on the High Court list has changed again.

    Having originally been listed for 17th October, it was changed to 28th November and has now changed again and is up “for mention” on 12th December.


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    #647
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Hibernicis wrote: »
    The date on the High Court list has changed again.

    Having originally been listed for 17th October, it was changed to 28th November and has now changed again and is up “for mention” on 12th December.

    It’ll be the new year at this stage. The courts will be winding down around mid December


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    #648
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    It’ll be the new year at this stage. The courts will be winding down around mid December

    Seemingly not , the steering group facebook page now saying "Judgement provisionally
    Set for Thursday 12th December 2019." and this is the first time they have ever mentioned a specific date for a judgement


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    #649
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    danny004 wrote: »
    Seemingly not , the steering group facebook page now saying "Judgement provisionally
    Set for Thursday 12th December 2019." and this is the first time they have ever mentioned a specific date for a judgement

    That crowd don’t know if they are coming or going. Is what they are saying accurate? I have no access to the legal lists.


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    #650
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    That crowd don’t know if they are coming or going. Is what they are saying accurate? I have no access to the legal lists.

    Would you not just take it in good faith and see how it goes I mean they have said it wouldn’t be last Thursday but before Christmas they have now narrowed that down to the 12th , you’d imagine they are feeding this information from their legal team because god knows they are costing someone or some entity enough.
    We know you don’t agree with their opinion and that’s understandable from your point but I’m sure they are not making up or posting different information to annoy people or for the sake ie the 12th is probably based on some legal discussion


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    #651
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    It’ll be the new year at this stage. The courts will be winding down around mid December

    You don't need to take my word for the above. You can see the list for yourself by following this:

    Go to http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/cslogin
    Click on “\bI Accept"
    Enter the following:
    Year: 2018
    Plaintiff Surname: M28
    And press Search
    Click on “View” on the Right hand side alongside the case name
    Then click on “Listing" on the menu on the left

    You will see all court dates relating to the case
    “FM” in the notes field covers a multitude of possibilities. It stands for “For Mention”


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    #652
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Hibernicis wrote: »
    You don't need to take my word for the above. You can see the list for yourself by following this:

    Go to http://highcourtsearch.courts.ie/hcslive/cslogin
    Click on “\bI Accept"
    Enter the following:
    Year: 2018
    Plaintiff Surname: M28
    And press Search
    Click on “View” on the Right hand side alongside the case name
    Then click on “Listing" on the menu on the left

    You will see all court dates relating to the case
    “FM” in the notes field covers a multitude of possibilities. It stands for “For Mention”

    In all likelihood what are the chances of a decision next week?


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    #653
    Hibernicis
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭Hibernicis


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    In all likelihood what are the chances of a decision next week?

    I am not in the business of reading the minds of High Court justices nor am I able to second guess their decisions so I have absolutely no idea. The case is up for mention. It could be anything from a 30 second rollover to a date in the new year, to a full decision. We should know by this time next week.


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    #654
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Hibernicis wrote: »
    I am not in the business of reading the minds of High Court justices nor am I able to second guess their decisions so I have absolutely no idea. The case is up for mention. It could be anything from a 30 second rollover to a date in the new year, to a full decision. We should know by this time next week.

    So the term “mention” means the case could still go ahead on the day and a decision given?


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    #655
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    again Trucker refer to my previous post


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    #656
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    So the term “mention” means the case could still go ahead on the day and a decision given?

    It means it is being mentioned to agree a new date for either hearing or for mention again on another day.
    It will not go ahead on the 12th.


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    #657
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    danny004 wrote: »
    this would be my guess and only a guess. The court must be interacting with TII on some level looking for clarifications and if that was the case that would be bad for the objectors
    danny004 wrote: »
    again Trucker refer to my previous post

    This one?


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    #658
    Cork Trucker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,553 ✭✭✭Cork Trucker


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    It means it is being mentioned to agree a new date for either hearing or for mention again on another day.
    It will not go ahead on the 12th.

    Cheers Rog. Was never 100% sure on that side of court meanings.


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    #659
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Cork Trucker wrote: »
    This one?

    This one



    Would you not just take it in good faith and see how it goes I mean they have said it wouldn’t be last Thursday but before Christmas they have now narrowed that down to the 12th , you’d imagine they are feeding this information from their legal team because god knows they are costing someone or some entity enough.
    We know you don’t agree with their opinion and that’s understandable from your point but I’m sure they are not making up or posting different information to annoy people or for the sake ie the 12th is probably based on some legal discussion


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    #660
    Reputable Rog
    Registered Users Posts: 2,082 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog


    danny004 wrote: »
    This one



    Would you not just take it in good faith and see how it goes I mean they have said it wouldn’t be last Thursday but before Christmas they have now narrowed that down to the 12th , you’d imagine they are feeding this information from their legal team because god knows they are costing someone or some entity enough.
    We know you don’t agree with their opinion and that’s understandable from your point but I’m sure they are not making up or posting different information to annoy people or for the sake ie the 12th is probably based on some legal discussion

    It is not going to happen on the 12th, take this in good faith.


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    #661
    danny004
    Registered Users Posts: 267 ✭✭danny004


    Reputable Rog wrote: »
    It is not going to happen on the 12th, take this in good faith.

    "Based on" and I ask not out of confronting your post but out of Id like a decision soon because I am front line affected one way or the other in a no win situation hence I am neither for the steering group against the road or massively pro the development ,my good faith of the 12th though is based on the steering group post so id like to know if people are informed via other channels and know better


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