5 years for unprovoked assault causing death

AllForIt · 23-01-2019 9:02pm

tayto lover wrote: »

This rubbish regarding “remorse” is really making me angry.
He was only remorseful because he was caught and in court.
He is a serial offender so where was his remorse all along for his other victims?

Exactly. How could you feel remorse for something that you did for the enjoyment of doing it in the first place - which he obviously did, and I would say that I do think ppl do get enjoyment out of venting anger if that what it was.

jeff bingham · 23-01-2019 9:14pm

If the victim was a member of my own family I would take revenge into my own hands. And if I was unalbe to do it I would pay someone who could.
Some of the countries judges sicken me.

Giveaway · 23-01-2019 9:18pm

I hope the DPP brings new charges. Punching somebody in the head, unprovoked, is an attempt to cause serious harm, that any reasonable person could see, may result in death. intoxication is no defence. I would expect a murder charge, with the defendent attempting to plead not guilty in a hope of getting a manslaughter conviction. One can get a life sentence for manslaughter, particularly if a convicted rapist

Giveaway · 23-01-2019 9:22pm

Also I wonder how a Lithunian court would have dealt with this, ie what charge and what sentence, if any boardsies have links to these court cases please link

sligojoek · 23-01-2019 9:24pm

Another worrying thing, is the next time this happens the judge will use this case as precedent.

Giveaway · 23-01-2019 9:30pm

Both houses of the oireachtas can impeach judges and order their removal. High time this process is used, they nearly used it on Brian Curtin before he resigned

lordlame · 23-01-2019 9:31pm

Giveaway wrote: »

Both houses of the oireachtas can impeach judges and order their removal. High time this process is used, they nearly used it on Brian Curtin before he resigned

“Brian Curtin (b. 1951/52[1]) is a former barrister and Irish circuit court judge, who was tried for possessing images of child pornography. After the case collapsed, the question of whether Curtin could continue as a judge became the focus of political and legal dispute. An impeachment motion was launched in the D in 2004 by Minister for Justice Michael McDowell. Curtin resigned in 2006 on grounds of ill health, and the motion lapsed.”

Christ

erudec · 23-01-2019 9:33pm

El_Bee wrote: »

Worst part of this is I'm not even a little shocked or surprised, we need a serious debate in this country about our judiciary.

Can't the DPP appeal it? They've lengthened sentences before that were found too lenient.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 23-01-2019 9:35pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Cant get my head around it at all. This sentence is nothing short of a slap in the face to the family. No justice here. Hope this is appealed.

Hopefully the DPP will appeal the leniency of the sentence.

turdball · 23-01-2019 9:43pm

Everything about this country at the moment is a ****ing disgrace.

Welfare, Health System, Housing, justice system been the top ones!

Giveaway · 23-01-2019 9:44pm

appeal the leniency please, but also look at bringing new charges that will result in heavier sentencing

biko · 23-01-2019 9:44pm

The fella Vytautas should have been deported for the rape.
Would have saved Seamus' life.

Rezident · 23-01-2019 9:48pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/we-are-extremely-disappointed-family-of-seamus-bell-criticise-killers-sentence-37740816.html

a man out celebrating the christening of his twin baby girls was followed and punched in the head, all totally unprovoked, causing him to hit his head and later die.

Cant get my head around it at all. This sentence is nothing short of a slap in the face to the family. No justice here. Hope this is appealed.

Totally agree. I have to say I am losing all respect for 'The Legal System' here, it seems to be a money-making scam for lawyers and scroungers all paid for by our insurance premiums.

It only adds insult to injury that when they do actually catch and convict someone, especially of something so shockingly bad as in this tragic case, that he gets off so lightly! And every criminal with 73 previous convictions will also get off lightly, because they have had a hard time apparently. No wonder so many in my area take the law into their own hands, at that way there is some justice.

The legal system here is such a joke it is in danger of being bypassed and ignored by whole sections of society. It's authority is undermined every time one of these travesties occurs, which seems to be every week now.

heldel00 · 23-01-2019 9:50pm

seamus wrote: »

frash wrote: »

It's Monaghan

For some reason I always though Carrickmacross was in Antrim.

Edit: I was thinking of Crossmaglen (in Armagh!). Rural village geography is not a strong point.

You're having a bad run of luck - Carrickmacross is one of the principal TOWNS in county Monaghan.

SCOOP 64 · 23-01-2019 9:54pm

jeff bingham wrote: »

If the victim was a member of my own family I would take revenge into my own hands. And if I was unalbe to do it I would pay someone who could.
Some of the countries judges sicken me.

Were justice will not be served we do need a Equalizer for a person like this, the world would be better place without him.

no.8 · 23-01-2019 9:57pm

That is a farcical sentence. His poor family. That judge is not fit for his post. There has to be some forum brought in place where the people of the nation can voice their anger and discord at sentences felt to overly lenient / severe (unlikely).

I hope Racys is dealt with properly the day he leaves prison.

Samuel T. Cogley · 23-01-2019 9:58pm

Is it possible that this was prosecuted by the DPP under Section 3, NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON ACT, 1997 and they could not impose more than 5 years? If so DPP dropped the ball on this one.

Edit: No according to the Mirror it was manslaughter and there was a row before hand - not that, that justifies such a short sentence.

Mrsmum · 23-01-2019 9:59pm

I think it's the sheer innocence of the dead man here that makes the sentence so unjust. If there were words said or a bit of pushing and shoving between him and the thug or anything but absolutely nothing, just minding his own business, happy out one minute and dead the next. It's just the worst. Unprovoked attacks should carry extra severe sentences simply because they are unprovoked.

hmmm · 23-01-2019 10:01pm

We need to put pressure on our politicians. Every one of them should be asked whether they support these sort of punishments, and if they don't what they intend to do about it.

Wheres Me Jumper? · 23-01-2019 10:09pm

seamus wrote: »

For some reason I always though Carrickmacross was in Antrim.

Edit: I was thinking of Crossmaglen (in Armagh!). Rural village geography is not a strong point.

it's ok shamus. it's an easy mistake to make. i keep thinking Belfast is in Munster. them Corkonians and their funny accents, eh?

Pythagorean · 23-01-2019 11:15pm

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

under the Accession treaty 2003 (i think) Bertie did have the opportunity to allow restrictions on Eastern European labour, but like Blair he choose not to.

some people would argue the UK's decision in this regard may have feulled the desire for Brexit.

Brit bashing seems to be popular here as far as Brexit is concerned "Upper class Tory twits", etc. But when you hear of cases such as this, you have to admit they have a point.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-01-2019 11:48pm

We don’t have a functioning legal system in this country.

Sir Oxman · 23-01-2019 11:50pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/we-are-extremely-disappointed-family-of-seamus-bell-criticise-killers-sentence-37740816.html

a man out celebrating the christening of his twin baby girls was followed and punched in the head, all totally unprovoked, causing him to hit his head and later die.

Cant get my head around it at all. This sentence is nothing short of a slap in the face to the family. No justice here. Hope this is appealed.

Wow.
Just wow.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 23-01-2019 11:52pm

hmmm wrote: »

We need to put pressure on our politicians. Every one of them should be asked whether they support these sort of punishments, and if they don't what they intend to do about it.

The law has to have minimum sentences because sometimes a fight might break out, between friends say, and someone of them hits his head, or has a prior condition which causes mortality. It’s up to the judges to apply proper sentencing when that isn’t the case.

Sir Oxman · 23-01-2019 11:58pm

biko wrote: »

The fella Vytautas should have been deported for the rape.
Would have saved Seamus' life.

I think he raped in Lithuania along with another 11 convictions there

Which begs the question, should EU Freedom of Movement have some type of bar on cúnts like this?

Varik · 24-01-2019 12:02am

It's never going to change, politicians here never have anything to do with justice as none of the others will ever do so either.

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Is it possible that this was prosecuted by the DPP under Section 3, NON-FATAL OFFENCES AGAINST THE PERSON ACT, 1997 and they could not impose more than 5 years? If so DPP dropped the ball on this one.

Edit: No according to the Mirror it was manslaughter and there was a row before hand - not that, that justifies such a short sentence.

The guy's a waste of life in any case but would have assumed that that would have made it premeditated and demand a harsher sentence.

UrbanFret · 24-01-2019 12:06am

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I think he raped in Lithuania along with another 11 convictions there

Which begs the question, should EU Freedom of Movement have some type of bar on cúnts like this?

Yes. criminal records should be shown on passport and entry refused to Ireland. Also crininals should be deported upon conviction and not be a burden on Irelands tax payers,

Franz Von Peppercorn · 24-01-2019 12:07am

Sir Oxman wrote: »

I think he raped in Lithuania along with another 11 convictions there

Which begs the question, should EU Freedom of Movement have some type of bar on cúnts like this?

We have that right under existing EU law. No idea why he is here.

The EU laws on this state:

“The Treaty provisions on free movement of workers provide that, subject to limitations justified on grounds of public policy, public security or public health, workers have the right to accept offers of employment and to move freely within the territory of the member states in order to take up such offers.”

Lots of room to stop people there, almost never legislated for.

24-01-2019 12:41am

erudec wrote: »

Can't the DPP appeal it? They've lengthened sentences before that were found too lenient.

At this stage with all the precedent cases, this is probably too harsh a sentence, alas.

It should be a cause of concern to each of us that our lives are valued so cheaply by Irish legislators and judges that somebody knows they could kill an innocent person and plead all sorts of "poor me" insults in front of the victim's family and get a mere slap-on-the-wrist sentence like this one. For taking a life. A 35-year-old man with three little children who are now fatherless.

Judges should be using sentencing as a deterrent, not as more legal precedent that will encourage violence against innocent people. Be afraid because the penalty for murder does little to deter it, and much to actually encourage it.

Stovepipe · 24-01-2019 2:15am

if he had done this in Lithuania, he'd be thrown into a ****hole prison and left there.

suicide_circus · 24-01-2019 5:57am

email the Director of Public Prosecutions office dpp@dppireland.ie

Ask them to review the leniency of the sentence of Vytautas Racys in the matter of the death of Seamus Bell.

Also make it clear to your local TD that inadequate sentencing for offences against the person is a serious election issue for you.

BeerWolf · 24-01-2019 6:00am

The Justice system in this country disgusts me to no end to the point I would have no qualms with vigilantes meting out their justice on these violent multi-convicts...

Irish Guitarist · 24-01-2019 6:22am

Of course he's going to say he's sorry in court. He's hardly going to say he doesn't regret it in the least.

Markcheese · 24-01-2019 8:16am

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We don’t have a functioning legal system in this country.

Our legal system works just fine, a little convoluted,a bit slow, but as legal systems go its fine..
We don't have a justice system though we have a legal system...

ohnonotgmail · 24-01-2019 10:58am

Stovepipe wrote: »

if he had done this in Lithuania, he'd be thrown into a ****hole prison and left there.

He was found guilty of rape and other offences in lithuania and he still ended up here so this is nonsense.

Pauliedragon · 24-01-2019 10:59am

Why are people surprised at this? This has been going on forever. It's not just us either, go through media reports from Aus, UK for example you'll see similar sentences and outrage. The only way to reign in these judges is for governments to take sentencing out of judges hands and introduce mandatory minumum sentences which they don't seem keen on doing for whatever reason.

Ulysses Gaze · 24-01-2019 12:10pm

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Why are people surprised at this? This has been going on forever. It's not just us either, go through media reports from Aus, UK for example you'll see similar sentences and outrage. The only way to reign in these judges is for governments to take sentencing out of judges hands and introduce mandatory minumum sentences which they don't seem keen on doing for whatever reason.

As you said, we need to get rid of judicial discretion in certain cases.

We also need to be able to make it easier to remove judges as well.

ohnonotgmail · 24-01-2019 3:26pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

As you said, we need to get rid of judicial discretion in certain cases.

We also need to be able to make it easier to remove judges as well.

Removed by who?

El_Bee · 24-01-2019 4:01pm

I mean, the idea of politicians having more power over the judiciary is a bit banana republic-y but on the other hand I'd say we're 3/4 of one anyway we may as well go all in.

Samuel T. Cogley · 24-01-2019 10:17pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

As you said, we need to get rid of judicial discretion in certain cases.

We really, really, don't.

The amount of injustice this causes in the US is unreal. People with guns to their heads storing drugs getting 10+ years.

What we need is proper sentencing from the capable Judges we have already.

Ulysses Gaze · 24-01-2019 10:19pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

We really, really, don't.

The amount of injustice this causes in the US is unreal. People with guns to their heads storing drugs getting 10+ years.

What we need is proper sentencing from the capable Judges we have already.

You mean capable judges like Martin Nolan?

Samuel T. Cogley · 24-01-2019 11:26pm

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

You mean capable judges like Martin Nolan?

I mean like the vast majority of our Judges that make decisions everyday that pass without comment as they are correct. Removing sentencing discretion from Judges means it becomes a political football and we end up with far more issues with the misapplication of justice.

We have an appeal process in this country that is designed to deal with issues like this.

5 years for unprovoked assault causing death

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