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What car do you hate that everyone else loves?

124

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Normal One


    Tell us you own a Renault without telling us you own a Renault :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,837 ✭✭✭✭freshpopcorn


    Normal One wrote: »
    Tell us you own a Renault without telling us you own a Renault :p

    Mrk II Megane owner.

    ''I regularly replace window regulators.''


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,315 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    Normal One wrote: »
    Tell us you own a Renault without telling us you own a Renault :p

    Ain't nothing wrong with owning a good car like a Renault.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    Porsche is a car I think fits the bill for being popular and seemingly liked but I don't get it and never have. To me it is goofy looking with the lights, looks like a newt and also like something that can't make its mind up about what it wants to be. What is more, given its cost, I am even more baffled at how it is liked so much.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Toyota's, all Toyota's, they are dead behind the eyes.

    Cars for people who have given up

    As someone who's owned lots of different cars over the years Toyota have always served me well, despise the Prius though,VW would have been the most unreliable
    Nissan Leaf is without doubt the most soulless car ever and the owners seem to be the oddest of the odd


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Porsche is a car I think fits the bill for being popular and seemingly liked but I don't get it and never have. To me it is goofy looking with the lights, looks like a newt and also like something that can't make its mind up about what it wants to be. What is more, given its cost, I am even more baffled at how it is liked so much.

    Old 911 is a thing of beauty but the newer stuff and that Panamera saloon are hideous


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,315 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    As someone who's owned lots of different cars over the years Toyota have always served me well, despise the Prius though,VW would have been the most unreliable
    Nissan Leaf is without doubt the most soulless car ever and the owners seem to be the oddest of the odd
    One of my neighbours have a Nissan Leaf as well as two Mercedes cars and I can say here that there is nothing odd about them at all. They have 3 children as well. A perfectly normal happy family. I am far more odd than them.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,130 ✭✭✭gussieg


    i hate the tesla. to me it has all the charm of a tub of margarine.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,467 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    gussieg wrote: »
    i hate the tesla. to me it has all the charm of a tub of margarine.

    Yeah they're horrible.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Nissan Leaf is without doubt the most soulless car ever and the owners seem to be the oddest of the odd
    Dunno about odd owners, maybe at the very start of the uptake of EV's when it tended to be the more nerdy types into them and I have bumped into a couple of them. A neighbour is one such, nice chap, an aspie so can come across as odd to some. But otherwise the owners seem like any other I have a car that goes A-B types. A sector that is generally "soulless" anyway. That's the white good, a car as a fridge on finance end of things. It's a good car in that sector of the market. Much cheaper to run for a start and feels much quicker than a similar type of ICE car. The newer series ones look much better than the original too.
    Old 911 is a thing of beauty but the newer stuff and that Panamera saloon are hideous
    The old 911's are nice enough alright, but "interesting" to drive. Of the newer I far prefer the look of the Cayman over the bloat the 911 has become.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Dunno about odd owners, maybe at the very start of the uptake of EV's when it tended to be the more nerdy types into them and I have bumped into a couple of them. A neighbour is one such, nice chap, an aspie so can come across as odd to some. But otherwise the owners seem like any other I have a car that goes A-B types. A sector that is generally "soulless" anyway. That's the white good, a car as a fridge on finance end of things. It's a good car in that sector of the market. Much cheaper to run for a start and feels much quicker than a similar type of ICE car. The newer series ones look much better than the original too.

    The old 911's are nice enough alright, but "interesting" to drive. Of the newer I far prefer the look of the Cayman over the bloat the 911 has become.

    Just saw a parade of classic cars go past, must be some motor club, but all 70s and 80s, Escorts, Mantas, Mk1 Golf, few E30 BMW, they were all distinct, didnt need to look for a badge to see what it was, everything lately seems to have been designed by committee


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    gussieg wrote: »
    i hate the tesla. to me it has all the charm of a tub of margarine.

    They remind me of a Mazda 626, and the smaller one the 323


  • Registered Users Posts: 125 ✭✭Back Home


    The g30 is way ahead in what way? I'm in the market for on and have not owned a 5 series before.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,930 ✭✭✭✭challengemaster


    Gonna eat a load of flak on here for saying this - but Alfas in general. Outside of the Giulia and the 8C, i think they look like utter dog****.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Gonna eat a load of flak on here for saying this - but Alfas in general. Outside of the Giulia and the 8C, i think they look like utter dog****.

    Never got the Alfa love affair,


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,604 ✭✭✭Amadan Dubh


    Old 911 is a thing of beauty but the newer stuff and that Panamera saloon are hideous

    I just don't see it I'm afraid.

    But I am a big admirer of Volvos so that should tell you what I like!


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    AMKC wrote: »
    I disagree. It was a very classy , very comfortable lovely to drive car.
    Which bore a striking resemblance to a giant metallic turd.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,423 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Porsche Cayenne. If I was given one I'd have it sold the next day.

    90's Civics / Glanza's / Renault 5's

    All Renaults

    Had a lone of a Ford Mondeo early 2000's model. Despised them since.
    Ford Focus first generation. They were everywhere for a while in every shape size and colour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭Pat_bottom


    Back Home wrote: »
    The g30 is way ahead in what way? I'm in the market for on and have not owned a 5 series before.
    I've an f10 and the g30 is just a more comfertable place to be. I love my f10 don't get me wrong it's a super car but the only car I'd realistically be trading it for would be a g30.

    I just wouldn't be going spending over 25k on a 4 year old car I'll wait another year or so and the 181 model will be at a better price point.


  • Posts: 14,344 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Suckler wrote: »
    Ford Focus first generation. They were everywhere for a while in every shape size and colour.


    I'd disagree with that. Always thought the mk1 Focus was a lovely car (and still do think that).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    AMKC wrote: »
    I disagree. It was a very classy , very comfortable lovely to drive car.

    The C-Max is/was a beautiful car to drive. I'm about to retire mine as it's costing too much to keep on the road (2004) but even after test-driving newer candidates for its replacement, I don't hate driving it when I get back in, which surprised me.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,581 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I've never driven a Toyota I didn't find to be awful in countless ways. Sales-wise the Irish love affair with them is clearly waning at least but the obsessive love for really bland, not as reliable as people pretended they were cars is something I never bought in to.


  • Registered Users Posts: 252 ✭✭purplefields


    Most Audis.

    To me, they look like boring cars. If you took the logo off of them, they could be any car. They always appear to be an unimaginative black too.

    What I do not like about them, is that if someone is willing to pay that amount for a car, why not get something that's also flashy?


    Hate, would be too strong a word. Maybe 'disinterested nonchalance'. However, I've never actually driven one! I guess there must be some attraction there...


  • Registered Users Posts: 227 ✭✭Water2626262


    Actually speaking of audis the current A5 coupe is just so boring compared to the previous model. The facelift orig model is so much nicer looking and still holds up from certain angles.

    The current model was such a boring redesign and 99% of them are very basic spec. Also the fact they sell a 150 bhp petrol and diesel version is a disgrace for a “sports coupe”. While the older one was 177 bhp minimum, at least it was the highest power version of the engine at the time (granted the 4 door came in lower 120 and 140 bhp versions like the A4 of that era).

    Not sure how the current one holds its value so much and the fact that the latest ones are touch screens only makes them an even worse prospect (like why do away with the mmi controller?).

    The new a7 is completely unremarkable too. The new A6 is the only good looking one left but finger prints on those touch screens would break my heart.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,244 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Pat_bottom wrote: »
    Do you drive a megane? That's the only reason I could think of you been so defensive of them.

    Look inside the dashboard looks like a big ball of plastic, the seats are nice but it's a Renault you expect the seats to be Nice it's what they do best.

    The outside its a generic design with a few shapes and grills thrown in to make it look sporty but it has arch gaps over the wheels that you could sleep in.

    Nah that Megane is one ugly peace of machine.

    There's nothing generic about the design of the current Megane, not quite sure which car you're thinking of, unless a base model of some sort as the wheels aren't particularly small either.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,190 ✭✭✭Stallingrad


    Another vote for the Range Rover/Q7/X5/X7 class. Under acceleration all you can hear is those poor engines straining to overcome the cars excessive mass, and all for what, to bring the kids to school?

    Having had German cars for most of my life, Toyota interiors kind of freak me out too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,525 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Just saw a parade of classic cars go past, must be some motor club, but all 70s and 80s, Escorts, Mantas, Mk1 Golf, few E30 BMW, they were all distinct, didnt need to look for a badge to see what it was, everything lately seems to have been designed by committee

    Sensible names too. No Seeds, Jokes, Toerags, Cashcows.
    When I hear of a Duster I think of the thing used on a blackboard in the olden days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,181 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Actually speaking of audis the current A5 coupe is just so boring compared to the previous model. The facelift orig model is so much nicer looking and still holds up from certain angles.

    The current model was such a boring redesign and 99% of them are very basic spec. Also the fact they sell a 150 bhp petrol and diesel version is a disgrace for a “sports coupe”. While the older one was 177 bhp minimum, at least it was the highest power version of the engine at the time (granted the 4 door came in lower 120 and 140 bhp versions like the A4 of that era).

    Not sure how the current one holds its value so much and the fact that the latest ones are touch screens only makes them an even worse prospect (like why do away with the mmi controller?).

    The new a7 is completely unremarkable too. The new A6 is the only good looking one left but finger prints on those touch screens would break my heart.
    i like the 2 door a5


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 512 ✭✭✭dvdman1


    All people carriers, practical maybe but such an ugly design. Especially the Ford one with the sort of pointed bonnet.
    They are being phased out for the 4wd thank God.

    The Ford people carriers are a great drive.....way ahead of suv's...the road handling and steering are better than most rivals..love the Bmax.. its small but a big car inside.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭stoneill


    Suckler wrote: »
    Porsche Cayenne. If I was given one I'd have it sold the next day.

    90's Civics / Glanza's / Renault 5's

    All Renaults

    Had a lone of a Ford Mondeo early 2000's model. Despised them since.
    Ford Focus first generation. They were everywhere for a while in every shape size and colour.

    Can nothing be said for the old Renault 4? I'd agree with the rest of your opinion, except I like the 4.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,442 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Another vote for the Range Rover/Q7/X5/X7 class. Under acceleration all you can hear is those poor engines straining to overcome the cars excessive mass, and all for what, to bring the kids to school?

    Having had German cars for most of my life, Toyota interiors kind of freak me out too.

    It all depends on which engine you have. With Ireland being so expensive, the engines are mostly underpowered.

    Try the Range Rover SVU, the q8 RS see if they are underpowered..:)

    Personally, the Toyota Prius is my car of hate, driven by eco warriors who have personality issues ..:)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,994 ✭✭✭ambro25


    Anything Subaru after 2006-2007 (when the Impreza went hatchback).

    They’ve always been marmite cars (…so maybe not ‘everyone’ ever loved them anyway, then or now).

    But the designers managed the feat of shifting me from one side of that particular marmite debate to the other, clean out, after a good 7 years of brand loyalty.

    They turned a sports saloon with containers-load of presence, into a blandest-of-bland Hyundaiyota. Unforgivable.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    stoneill wrote: »
    Can nothing be said for the old Renault 4? I'd agree with the rest of your opinion, except I like the 4.

    The Renault 4 is a brilliant car, reliable,comfortable,economical , good in snow, the back seats fold flat so you can sleep,every panel screws off, hard to believe it and the Zoe are related


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    L1011 wrote: »
    I've never driven a Toyota I didn't find to be awful in countless ways. Sales-wise the Irish love affair with them is clearly waning at least but the obsessive love for really bland, not as reliable as people pretended they were cars is something I never bought in to.

    Late 80s Corrolla and Carina were pretty much bulletproof, 90s Starlet would go forever, the old flat fronted Hiace was something else and the first and second generation Landcruiser and Hilux made warfare affordable for the third world(last one probably not a good point)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Sensible names too. No Seeds, Jokes, Toerags, Cashcows.
    When I hear of a Duster I think of the thing used on a blackboard in the olden days.

    The Duster was here in its former guise in 1990, they were unbelievably poor in every way imaginable, a 1.6 diesel from a Renault 11 coupled to a 1960s Renault 12 gearbox with a transfer case added, the chassis was buttered together with possibly the first arc welder ever invented using various sizes of box section, I suspect no two were the same, the white 3 stud rims and painted rust orange shell finished this Romanian monument to mediocrity


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,525 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Hilux made warfare affordable for the third world(last one probably not a good point)

    Decent gun platform and reliable troop carrier.

    Thousands of satisfied terrorist group users can't be wrong.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭Pat_bottom


    Hurrache wrote: »
    There's nothing generic about the design of the current Megane, not quite sure which car you're thinking of, unless a base model of some sort as the wheels aren't particularly small either.

    17inch wheels that have huge arch gaps above them and the car sitting up high. I personally wouldn't drive one. Just because a car has a few nice lights stuck on doesn't make it a nice car it just doesn't flow right reminds me of the ugly fluence.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Another vote for the Range Rover/Q7/X5/X7 class. Under acceleration all you can hear is those poor engines straining to overcome the cars excessive mass, and all for what, to bring the kids to school?
    .

    This is bollix from someone who never drove a RR. I have a 2ltr PHEV (highest selling RR) that has 404bhp and goes 0 to 100kph in just under 7 seconds. Is that underpowered?


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Always been a fan of a small hatch tbh so I really don’t get the new “jeep” craze. Most of them are a case of people wanting a jeep, but couldn’t afford a jeep so bought a fake one. A jeep is a Land Rover.

    After that, brand wise Toyota makes me absolutely wretch, I hate all that old school Jap stuff too, Evo’s, Silvia’s etc.

    The worst though has to be the Sportage. I’ve never seen an uglier yoke in my life and they are everywhere.

    Funnily enough, I have a soft spot for the Dacias though. My nan has one and it’s a little rocket. Basic as hell but like a go kart!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,244 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Pat_bottom wrote: »
    17inch wheels that have huge arch gaps above them and the car sitting up high. I personally wouldn't drive one. Just because a car has a few nice lights stuck on doesn't make it a nice car it just doesn't flow right reminds me of the ugly fluence.

    I never mentioned lights, but they're a good looking car. Nothing generic about them these days, marques like BMW and one or two others tend to make all their cars look alike with little variance, that's a generic approach.

    I don't understand why you think they sit up high (I actually think this is the previous facelift)
    Renault%20Megane%20Sports%20Tourer%20E-Tech-4.jpg


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,525 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    A jeep is a Land Rover.

    Is a Jeep not a jeep?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 808 ✭✭✭FrankC21


    Pat_bottom wrote: »
    17inch wheels that have huge arch gaps above them and the car sitting up high. I personally wouldn't drive one. Just because a car has a few nice lights stuck on doesn't make it a nice car it just doesn't flow right reminds me of the ugly fluence.

    I owned a 2014 Fluence R-Link - 1.5 Dci 110 - i really don't like the way it looks but one thing I love about it is how economical the damn thing is, I used it last week travelling from

    Louth -> Mayo -> Galway -> Kerry then back to Louth.

    Did half of the ring of kerry and overall 5 of us including a baby fits inside. manage to squeeze in a buggy, and about 4 luggages in the boot. Total kilometres I travelled according to google map is almost 900 km that's exactly full tank around €80 I spent and that's with Circle K diesel plus. Not a single trouble tyres or engine. And it got on well driving through Killarney, lady's view and Molly's gap also drives smooth on the motorway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭Pat_bottom


    Hurrache wrote: »
    I never mentioned lights, but they're a good looking car. Nothing generic about them these days, marques like BMW and one or two others tend to make all their cars look alike with little variance, that's a generic approach.

    I don't understand why you think they sit up high
    Renault%20Megane%20Sports%20Tourer%20E-Tech-4.jpg

    Because that's not the car that the op linked when comparing a 14k Renault Megane to a Mercedes A Class.

    The colour of that car is nice and the wheels are nice for an oem option. You sit in that and it's full of cheap plastic. As I said earlier the seats would be fantastic.


  • Registered Users Posts: 355 ✭✭Pat_bottom


    FrankC21 wrote: »
    I owned a 2014 Fluence R-Link - 1.5 Dci 110 - i really don't like the way it looks but one thing I love about it is how economical the damn thing is, I used it last week travelling from

    Louth -> Mayo -> Galway -> Kerry then back to Louth.

    Did half of the ring of kerry and overall 5 of us including a baby fits inside. manage to squeeze in a buggy, and about 4 luggages in the boot. Total kilometres I travelled according to google map is almost 900 km that's exactly full tank around €80 I spent and that's with Circle K diesel plus. Not a single trouble tyres or engine. And it got on well driving through Killarney, lady's view and Molly's gap also drives smooth on the motorway.

    That's fine if economy is what your after mate the 1.5 is decent for economy. There is different types of cars for different needs that Fluence serves its purpose same as a Dacia serves its purpose for cheap and cheerful with a warranty.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,174 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    Lexis IS200, or even better the Altezza

    Slow, crazy thirsty, styling nothing to write home about. I'm sure I've heard in it reference to another car that slips my mind right now but performance of a1 litre, tax as a 2 litre, drinks fuel like a 3 litre. Really don't get the love for them much like smoky Boras. More often than not slammed on cheap coilovers with an aftermarket exhaust, the noise of which would drill through your brain, and half the windscreen obstructed by ridiculous stickers. I mean really, besides being rear wheel drive,I just don't get the attraction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 357 ✭✭Normal One


    The original IS200 was a great looking car and it still looks good 20+ years later. I had a 2003 IS200 Sport automatic for a few months around 10 years ago, it was slow and thirsty but very comfortable and reliable (still see it around the odd time). The popularity of Altezzas and the associated boy racers ruined its reputation imo. I stand by my comment that it’s fresher looking than its rivals from 20 years ago.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,170 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Just saw a parade of classic cars go past, must be some motor club, but all 70s and 80s, Escorts, Mantas, Mk1 Golf, few E30 BMW, they were all distinct, didnt need to look for a badge to see what it was, everything lately seems to have been designed by committee
    More designed by the market far more than in the "old days". Though like in music we tend to only think of the hits of the old days when looking back. LIke in music there were a lot of misses too. For the most part 70's cars were often badly put together and could be reduced to a pile of iron oxide after a heavy shower, unsafe, woefully underpowered, with brakes that seemed to have only functioned as rear red light switches. But yes there was more variablity in design.

    Why? Costs. Margins are very tight and car companies can rarely afford to take risks except at the very low volume high end stuff. Most modern cars share one or two platforms within the brand so there's only so much you can do design wise. Cars need to have all sorts of gadgets that people have come to expect so they share those among the ranges on offer. The more you can share interiors et al from the communal parts bin the less cost and more profit.

    Safety is another huge factor. So overhangs are longer to allow for that crumple zone in front and rear, A, and B pillars have to be much thicker to protect in case of impact and rollover and they have to contain airbags too. Doors are much thicker with higher window lines for the same reasons, even the angle of the bonnet is more raked to protect pedestrians. Look at old cars and notice how the bottom of the windscreen lines up with the bottom of the rest of the glass, side windows and the rest. These days there's usually a step up to the windscreen. Then there's more emphasis on practicality, so four doors are in, two door low to the ground racing snake coupes are out. Price another factor. Look at car door handles. Most are a variation on this theme:

    2008-ford-focus-2-door-coupe-ses-door-handle_100288572_l.jpg

    It's cheap, is used across the ranges and the industry standard and covers all the safety and reliability bases, so they pretty much all use the same design. Go back to the 1970's and there were as many door handle designs as their were cars.

    Plus in the past cars were designed on pen and paper, often enough by one bloke, or a small gang of blokes so individuality was more in play. It still is in the very high end expensive "supercar segment", though even here regulations have changed the shape of them. Take the reissued Ford GT40(first series). Their last year of production was the last year because upcoming new regulations meant they couldn't be produced anymore. They couldn't be produced today. These days cars are designed on and by computers with the safety points and interior features as hard points that can't really be moved, or moved much.

    There's also the concept of the world car which really didn't exist much in say the 70's. Cars were far more local market specific and the average car in Italy was very different to the average car in Japan, or America, or the UK. The world car again is cheaper and less risky for the brands and can be sold worldwide so has to have broad, even bland appeal across so many markets, with lots of focus groups trying to insure mass appeal.

    Brands themselves have become less and less independent and tend to be one big company with a suite of brands under their control, with shared platforms and parts. Bigger company structures means more hands in the pot so again fewer single visions get to market.

    Perspectives change too. To 70's or 80's even 90's eyes most cars on the road today are very large even bloated and heavy, but that's where the market is.

    If you look at the Renault Hurrache posted it illustrates pretty much all of these features. Change the grill(which is where designs tend to be most different) and it could be a Ford, Opel, Toyota etc.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,668 ✭✭✭maidhc


    Dav010 wrote: »
    This is bollix from someone who never drove a RR. I have a 2ltr PHEV (highest selling RR) that has 404bhp and goes 0 to 100kph in just under 7 seconds. Is that underpowered?

    It’s actually reasonably accurate. The RR phev can’t tow much more than a Passat, so it’s entire raison detre must be called into question. A 200hp ‘Cruiser will devour it in most real world situations.

    I hate all these tall cars people love. Completely pointless things that are just too tall and have silly wheels. If people need to get from a to b on tarmac get a normal 2wd car that handles well.

    If you Live up a mountain or need to tow stuff get a hilux or landcruiser and nothing else, everything else that claims to be a 4wd is a waste of time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,943 ✭✭✭✭the purple tin


    The new Ford Focus looks sort of squashed, like Godzilla stamped on it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,174 ✭✭✭Top Dog


    The new Ford Focus looks sort of squashed, like Godzilla stamped on it.
    Similar to how the current Scirocco looks like someone stood on a Golf :D


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