French Open 2021

12-06-2021 4:05pm

K really blew those match point break points there in a weak fashion.

how will the nerves hold up serving for the match?

12-06-2021 4:08pm

coach is giving her signals which side to serve to

low-key finish!

SlickRic · 12-06-2021 4:21pm

walshb wrote: »

Come on

There’s plenty stats and criteria and intangibles to argue for any the big three

Personally I think Fed greatest tennis player ever. Nobody does it better…

On clay all at peak, Nadal wins!

Hard court all at best, probably Nole. Fed right behind. Should have put Nole away twice in U.S. semis.

On grass all at best, I think Fed best..

My position is this (and I don't like Djokovic at all).

Federer may be the most mesmerising to watch at his best, but I think Djokovic is the most difficult player to beat at his best.

I won't fall out with anyone over it. It's just how I've felt for a while now. If someone wants to argue for Fed, then great.

MisterAnarchy · 12-06-2021 4:32pm

whiterebel wrote: »

I watched that match last night, and had no stake in who won. While I watched it, my son, who's a RN fan walked past and asked how it was going. I said, and this is TB in the 3rd, its brilliant - but its drama, not brilliant tennis. I wake up this morning and Roddick, Murray and Croft are in paroxysms over it. I'm scratching my head wondering did we watch different matches? Now, commentators have to believe everything is better now, particularly when. they show it on their channel - Football started in 1992 - Sky Sports syndrome. No teams before 92, no great players, no great goals. They have a vested interest, plus younger viewers don't remember the greats. How you can even have the discussion about GOAT in tennis without Laver is ludicrous. 11 slams, and forced to miss 20 when he dominated mens tennis. Talk of records for pre-Open era is conveniently forgotten. He won the slam of slams twice, 1962 and 1969.

Anyway, the match last night - one of the greatest? Nadal had 16 UEs before the TB in the 3rd set. 55 in total in 4 sets. 55 by the best player on clay we have ever seen. I'd say he has won tournaments with less UEs than that. Eurosport have the highlights up this morning, I watched it back, to make sure I wasn't dreaming. They started their highlights of a 4 set match, at the 3rd set. I had thought, while watching live, that the 3rd set would make it into a "greatest of all time" conversation, but there were terrible misses everywhere in that set, just less by ND.
Great drama, but definitely not great tennis. Nowhere near Nadal/Fed Wimbledon or Mac v Borg x 2.

The umpire deserves to take one massive boot in the ass for giving ND a violation, when Nadal, as usual slowed down the server. On break point, no less. In one tournament you've got Fed penalised for slowing down one of the slowest servers around, then Nadal is told he is fine versus Norrie, despite persistently slowing up the server. Then you've got the server being penalised last night because Nadal is giving himself a sponge bath in the corner followed by 27,000 tics that he has developed. This needs to stop, the 3rd set would have been done in less than an hour by 2 reasonably quicker servers last night. Nadal hit an ace last night, and you could clearly see he was nearly back to the towel by the time the clock started. No wonder they are not on obvious display for the TV cameras any more.

Agree with all of that.
Well said.

12-06-2021 4:32pm

whiterebel wrote: »

I watched that match last night, and had no stake in who won. While I watched it, my son, who's a RN fan walked past and asked how it was going. I said, and this is TB in the 3rd, its brilliant - but its drama, not brilliant tennis. I wake up this morning and Roddick, Murray and Croft are in paroxysms over it. I'm scratching my head wondering did we watch different matches? Now, commentators have to believe everything is better now, particularly when. they show it on their channel - Football started in 1992 - Sky Sports syndrome. No teams before 92, no great players, no great goals. They have a vested interest, plus younger viewers don't remember the greats. How you can even have the discussion about GOAT in tennis without Laver is ludicrous. 11 slams, and forced to miss 20 when he dominated mens tennis. Talk of records for pre-Open era is conveniently forgotten. He won the slam of slams twice, 1962 and 1969.

Anyway, the match last night - one of the greatest? Nadal had 16 UEs before the TB in the 3rd set. 55 in total in 4 sets. 55 by the best player on clay we have ever seen. I'd say he has won tournaments with less UEs than that. Eurosport have the highlights up this morning, I watched it back, to make sure I wasn't dreaming. They started their highlights of a 4 set match, at the 3rd set. I had thought, while watching live, that the 3rd set would make it into a "greatest of all time" conversation, but there were terrible misses everywhere in that set, just less by ND.
Great drama, but definitely not great tennis. Nowhere near Nadal/Fed Wimbledon or Mac v Borg x 2.

.

Loser has higher number of UE's shocker (55 vs 37 overall).

Including the third set which took twice as long as a normal set - some long games with lots of break points saved and a tie-break.

Match was over half an hour longer in duration than the 5 setter that preceded it where UE count was 47 - 43.

Tennis is certainly not all about stats either.

It's about the battle, the ebb and flow, the intensity.

That's what makes it compelling.

Zverev V Tsitsipas was a five setter and had less UE's but wasn't a quarter of the match that came after it!!!

it's easily the best "big" / GS semi or final for years

I put it ahead of the Fed - Djokovic Wimbdledon final in 2019 as it had more "weight" (Nadal never lost at RG semi or final, his 98.5% win record over 5 on clay, never lost a match after taking first set here compared to a relatively faded Federer) and more intensity (imo, but some will prefer the other match)

after that you have to go back a long way to find a good one.

klr87 · 12-06-2021 5:47pm

glasso wrote: »

Loser has higher number of UE's shocker (55 vs 37 overall).

Including the third set which took twice as long as a normal set - some long games with lots of break points saved and a tie-break.

Match was over half an hour longer in duration than the 5 setter that preceded it where UE count was 47 - 43.

Tennis is certainly not all about stats either.

It's about the battle, the ebb and flow, the intensity.

That's what makes it compelling.

Zverev V Tsitsipas was a five setter and had less UE's but wasn't a quarter of the match that came after it!!!

it's easily the best "big" / GS semi or final for years

I put it ahead of the Fed - Djokovic Wimbdledon final in 2019 as it had more "weight" (Nadal never lost at RG semi or final, his 98.5% win record over 5 on clay, never lost a match after taking first set here compared to a relatively faded Federer) and more intensity (imo)

after that you have to go back a long way to find a good one.

The 2017 RG sem-final between Wawrinka and Murray was a belter: 6-7 3-6 5-7 7-6 6-1. Of course, as the match went into a fifth set, you just knew the winner wouldn't be able to recover properly for the final, which was exactly what happened to Wawrinka against Nadal.

Both of the Australia Open semi-finals that year were great matches as well: Federer-Wawrinka and (especially) Nadal-Dimitrov. While the final was also a five-setter, it wasn't quite as good as either semi, IMHO.

The rain- and wind-interrupted 2019 semi-final at the French was also a very dramatic match, Thiem beating Djokovic 6-2 3-6 7-5 5-7 7-5. If you recall, this match finished on the Saturday morning, after Djokovic seemingly refused to return to the court the previous evening.

12-06-2021 7:32pm

Not bad suggestions but the calibre of personnel involved not the same imo

And where matches go to a second day it loses the intensity

walshb · 12-06-2021 8:36pm

SlickRic wrote: »

My position is this (and I don't like Djokovic at all).

Federer may be the most mesmerising to watch at his best, but I think Djokovic is the most difficult player to beat at his best.

I won't fall out with anyone over it. It's just how I've felt for a while now. If someone wants to argue for Fed, then great.

I agree here..

Life on the line and you have to pick one player to win? Nole by a whisker.

I just don’t see it as being remotely clear for any of them..

They are neck and neck the three of them..

Furze99 · 12-06-2021 9:48pm

walshb wrote: »

I agree here..

Life on the line and you have to pick one player to win? Nole by a whisker.

I just don’t see it as being remotely clear for any of them..

They are neck and neck the three of them..

Doesn't that depend on conditions and length of the match? Neither Federer nor Nadal look really up to long 5 set battles anymore and certainly not more than one in a championship. They're surviving at the moment on blasting away their opponents in straight sets, with skill and reputation as main factors. Personally I don't see them lasting much longer, just hope they don't go through a phase of getting out in early rounds. Something to be said for reading the writing on the wall and quiting when ahead.

Djokovic despite I think his on court persona can be unlikable, has a few more miles left in him yet.

12-06-2021 10:04pm

If and when or if ever Djokovic gets to 20 then he'll certainly be out in front due to all the other stats and head-to-head records.

Some may not like him but he'll be obviously the G.O.A.T

forumdedum · 12-06-2021 11:37pm

glasso wrote: »

If and when or if ever Djokovic gets to 20 then he'll certainly be out in front due to all the other stats and head-to-head records.

Some may not like him but he'll be obviously the G.O.A.T

I used to like Djokovic a lot but he bores me s&$#less

No one will ever touch Federer no matter how many or what they win imo

lostcat · 13-06-2021 10:26am

Hard to see Djokovic letting it slip today, but if Tsitsipas comes out aggressive and is painting the lines it will be very interesting. I don't think he will be able to keep it up for 3 sets however

13-06-2021 11:45am

Orange Slice wrote: »

Yea but he had already been beaten in straight sets by Djokovic at the French Open so those other stats are fairly arbitrary and meaningless.

he's won the last 4 titles in a row and had only dropped one set in the championship so far

and when he lost or withdrew before he was either sick (Soderling), injured or off-form bigtime and lost in earlier rounds

neither of which was the case this year

it's the fooking hardest thing in sports to do

98.5% win record on clay over 5 up to that match

meaningless indeed.

nobody is saying that

everything now is "better than ever"

which is simply bs paraphrasing on your part

Djokovic said that he played HIS best match at RG which is entirely possible given the challenge and the circumstances.

MisterAnarchy · 13-06-2021 12:05pm

Orange Slice wrote: »

A lot of people have a weird need to believe that everything now is "better than ever".

Unfortunately thats the melodramatic era we live in.
Too many people in the media cannot seem to tell the difference between reporting the news and creating propaganda.

Girly Gal · 13-06-2021 12:07pm

Orange Slice wrote: »

A lot of people have a weird need to believe that everything now is "better than ever".

It's the same in every sport, the media drives this idea that all sports are getting better year on year, the truth is all sports go through peaks and troughs. In tennis we've just gone through the greatest era of the game, the level has already dropped from it's peak and will drop further once Djokovic and Nadal retire or lose form as the next gen guys play at a much lower level. It'll peak again sometime in the future, unlikely to get to the highest peak of the Federer, Nadal, Djokovic era, but, higher than what the next gen guys are capable of.

No doubt in the future we will have people say and believe that tennis is being played at a much higher level than the peak of the Federer, Nadal & Djokovic era, which is near impossible to see happen.

13-06-2021 12:12pm

Orange Slice wrote: »

He most definitely didn't play his best match on Friday, he's played better in the past at Roland Garros.

Yes the five set stuff you're talking about is meaningless. Djokovic beat Nadal before at Roland Garros, and now he's done it again. Nobody said it's easy to beat Nadal at Roland Garros, beating him there is a tough task, not as tough as it used to be though as he's old now, slower around the court and makes more unforced errors. His stamina has considerably declined too, Nadal seems to struggle now over long matches.

Nadal hadn't lost a match there since 2015 (withdrew in 2016), had won the last 4 on the trot and was steamrolling (one set lost) through the tournament

was still a massive massive task

Djokovic said himself that he played his best match (not his best ever tennis there - maybe you missed the distinction perhaps) there - you can choose to believe him or not - whatever....

13-06-2021 12:17pm

second day in a row with a "random new poster" - no coincidence

pathetic behaviour in fairness

13-06-2021 12:32pm

Orange Slice wrote: »

I choose not to believe him, especially when emotions are high just after the victory, people say irrational things in such moments.

he also achieved another stat never ever achieved before

nobody had ever beaten Nadal after losing the first set to him on clay over 5

so a first

the way Nadal came out of the blocks like an unplayable monster would have broken the spirit of any other player perhaps

maybe another reason why Djokovic would then come out and claim that it was his best match here and he also said one of his top 3 matches of all his career

but sure what the hell would he know say some?!

Djokovic will certainly say if he played well but does not throw these sort of comments about.

Girly Gal · 13-06-2021 1:31pm

Hopefully it'll be competitive today, expect Djokovic to win, but, want to see Tsitsipas make him earn it, the worst thing that can happen today is a one sided win for Djokovic, nothing against Djokovic just the game in general needs Tsitsipas (and the other next gen guys) to step up and really challenge at GS level now.

13-06-2021 1:50pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

Hopefully it'll be competitive today, expect Djokovic to win, but, want to see Tsitsipas make him earn it, the worst thing that can happen today is a one sided win for Djokovic, nothing against Djokovic just the game in general needs Tsitsipas (and the other next gen guys) to step up and really challenge at GS level now.

these "next gen" can't just decide to "step up" and beat a player like Djokovic

Djokovic is still very very very good - no matter that he's 34 (just) - as if that was ancient or something in a game where you have to provide short bursts of activity (points) with a rest after each one

He can easily go for 4 hours plus as shown the other day and is probably the best clutch points player ever

He could easily be the best for another 2 years the way that he takes care of himself and manages to keep the level

Having that challenge there may push them which is a good thing but it may or may not happen this year or next year if Djokovic is able to keep playing so well

Tsipsitas may well have it to be a good GS finalist performer straight out of the blocks and he has a game that can work against Djokovic (recent results on head to head are not great but he had chances in those matches so it doesn't tell the whole story there)

fair play to him if he is a great first time finalist but he's facing a superb player here - there is no "step up" button

hoping for a good match and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility for Tsipsitas to do it as he has the game that works against Djokovic as said - a very damaging "serve plus 1" game - e.g. the serve and next shot to finish the point

13-06-2021 2:11pm

Tsipsitas has to hope that Djokovic expended so much "emotional energy" on the previous match and the resulting huge high that he got from it afterwards

Conceivable that that could leave him flat today to an extent coming down off that feeling

But then again he's a mental beast and is cognisant of managing his levels very well

Girly Gal · 13-06-2021 2:53pm

glasso wrote: »

these "next gen" can't just decide to "step up" and beat a player like Djokovic

Djokovic is still very very very good - no matter that he's 34 (just) - as if that was ancient or something in a game where you have to provide short bursts of activity (points) with a rest after each one

He can easily go for 4 hours plus as shown the other day and is probably the best clutch points player ever

He could easily be the best for another 2 years the way that he takes care of himself and manages to keep the level

Having that challenge there may push them which is a good thing but it may or may not happen this year or next year if Djokovic is able to keep playing so well

Tsipsitas may well have it to be a good GS finalist performer straight out of the blocks and he has a game that can work against Djokovic (recent results on head to head are not great but he had chances in those matches so it doesn't tell the whole story there)

fair play to him if he is a great first time finalist but he's facing a superb player here - there is no "step up" button

hoping for a good match and it's not beyond the bounds of possibility for Tsipsitas to do it as he has the game that works against Djokovic as said - a very damaging "serve plus 1" game - e.g. the serve and next shot to finish the point

Obviously no player can decide to step up over night, it takes time, all we're looking for is players to play to the best or their ability and not wilt or have the game lost before they even step on the court just because they're playing a big name e.g. Djokovic or Nadal which is what has been happening in recent years.

13-06-2021 3:00pm

Good so far from Tsitsipas

nearly hugely costly there from ND by putting an easy volley into the net and the miss-hit giving break point

but unreal clutch rally from ND to bring it back

13-06-2021 3:01pm

GustavoKuerten wrote: »

Tsitsipas can win this, beating Djokovic at his advanced age is not the formidable task it once was.

are you trying to break the number of new boards accounts in 24 hours record?

13-06-2021 3:06pm

Djokovic making Tsitsipas's case there that he shouldn't have got a time warning

especially at a key set point

edit - should have kept focus on his own game instead of trying to be sound!

that could be big

had the set for the taking - awful game for him

Girly Gal · 13-06-2021 3:21pm

Tsitsipas needed that

13-06-2021 3:24pm

ND in real trouble I think now

that half-volley winner from the baseline after a good return from ND was unreal

before he hit that I was thinking that's a good return - ND has this set

maybe the "beat Nadal at RG but you don't win the Championship" trend is set to continue

Tsitsipas showing composure and definitely NOT wilting here, so far

but ND lost his focus stupidly there at 6-5 for a few minutes - only himself to blame really

sloppy start here now also 'cos he's kicking himself

mzungu · 13-06-2021 3:26pm

This set will tell a lot. Usually Djokovic comes roaring back in these situations.

Slashermcguirk · 13-06-2021 3:27pm

Djokovic looks gassed. I fear he played his final on Friday

Girly Gal · 13-06-2021 3:27pm

glasso wrote: »

ND in real trouble I think now

that half-volley winner from the baseline after a good return from ND was unreal

before he hit that I was thinking that's a good return - ND has this set

maybe the "beat Nadal at RG but you don't win the Championship" trend is set to continue

Tsitsipas showing composure and definitely NOT wilting here, so far

but ND lost his focus stupidly there at 6-5 for a few minutes - only himself to blame really

You'd still have to expect Djokovic to come through, he's been in much bigger holes than this against better players and turned it around, expect him to do like wise here, but, game certainly needed Tsitsipas to start well as he has done

mzungu · 13-06-2021 3:29pm

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

Djokovic looks gassed. I fear he played his final on Friday

Don't count him out, he has a good bit left in the tank.

MisterAnarchy · 13-06-2021 3:30pm

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

Djokovic looks gassed.

He is playing possum.

Slashermcguirk · 13-06-2021 3:32pm

You see it so often in individual sport, after a massive win it's so hard to back it up again.

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He is playing possum.

Slashermcguirk · 13-06-2021 3:33pm

Certainly not counting him out but his level is way lower than Friday

quote="mzungu;117411921"]Don't count him out, he has a good bit left in the tank.[/quote]

13-06-2021 3:35pm

Girly Gal wrote: »

You'd still have to expect Djokovic to come through, he's been in much bigger holes than this against better players and turned it around, expect him to do like wise here, but, game certainly needed Tsitsipas to start well as he has done

I think Tsitsipas is huge favourite now

It's possible for ND to come back but honestly think that it's a mental energy deficit from the Nadal game and the "after high" that is bringing ND down here - very uncharacteristic for him to "switch off" there at the tail end of the first set which cost him it

If ND comes back here it would be some turnaround

winning the first set on clay seems to be bigger than on other surfaces also (notwithstanding the Nadal match)

Hector Savage · 13-06-2021 3:36pm

Well done Tsitsipas, fantastic to see a new young lad win a grand slam.

I think that coveted career double slam will never happen - just too difficult - unless Nadal can win AO 2022.

Anwyay, congrats to Tsitsipas!!

13-06-2021 3:38pm

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He is playing possum.

this is complete balderdash

Slashermcguirk · 13-06-2021 3:50pm

Shows what a joke the seedings are. The final was on Friday. Djokovic is completely spent, it's a shame for the final. Like watching a different player

Augme · 13-06-2021 3:50pm

Tsitsipas wins this game and it's match over.

13-06-2021 3:50pm

as McEnroe et al saying on tv - ND could actually use a bit of crowd support here to lift his energy levels out of the doldrums but he ain't getting a bit of it.

mzungu · 13-06-2021 3:53pm

Double break!

Slashermcguirk · 13-06-2021 3:54pm

He has definitely checked out now, doesnt want to be there

Augme · 13-06-2021 3:55pm

In a sense we are finally seeing age catch up with the greats. If they get taken deep in one match it's almost impossible for then to bounce back from it in time for the next.

13-06-2021 3:55pm

the froggy crowd will turn to give ND a few cheers in the 3rd set but will be in vain I think by then

so much hinged on that game at 6-5 where ND had a brain fart (note to self - wrap up the set instead of having bants with the umpire)

takes that and this would be a completely different match

just can't see even ND coming back after this barring something unbelievable

Tsits has his foot on the gas and ND is still thinking how the fook he blew that first set

cmac2009 · 13-06-2021 3:56pm

Slashermcguirk wrote: »

He has definitely checked out now, doesnt want to be there

Just wanted that set over it seems. Let's see how the start of the next set goes and if he can mentally get back into this.

BQQ · 13-06-2021 3:57pm

The start of this set is a dangerous time for Tsitsipas
I hope he stays focused and finishes this

sxt · 13-06-2021 3:59pm

Haha ha. I knew this would happen.

mzungu · 13-06-2021 4:01pm

glasso wrote: »

the froggy crowd will turn to give ND a few cheers in the 3rd set but will be in vain I think by then

so much hinged on that game at 6-5 where ND had a brain fart (note to self - wrap of the set instead of having bants with the umpire)

takes that and this would be a completely different match

just can't see even ND coming back after this

ND has levels, though. Any let up from ST and things can chance quite fast.

RosyLily · 13-06-2021 4:01pm

BQQ wrote: »

The start of this set is a dangerous time for Tsitsipas
I hope he stays focused and finishes this

Absolutely! He has to stay calm and keep playing his best. Djokovic could come back but I'm cautiously optimistic for Tsitsipas.

yerwanthere123 · 13-06-2021 4:01pm

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

He is playing possum.

Commentator just said that too :pac: Delighted with this scoreline so far :cool:

French Open 2021

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