Repair or sell? - Man maths involved!

Rowley Birkin QC · 20-02-2018 9:55pm #1

Long story short, after a long time deliberating I bought a 3.0 325 (N53) MSport Coupé late last year for about €7,000. Parked it for a month while I went on honeymoon, drove it for 2 months and it then developed injector, misfire and rough running issues, as that engine is wont to do.

The recommended course of action is to replace all 6 injectors at a cost of approximately €2,000+. After tyres and various other bits for NCT, the car would be standing me about €10,000.

I've parked it up and advertised it for sale (advising the buyers of the issue and cost to repair) while driving a loaner car from a family connection.

I'm torn between putting more money into the car and potentially being married to it forever or cutting my losses and selling it at a hefty (€2-2.5k) loss and buying something sensible to tide me over.

It's a cracking motor when running right but that engine is not without its issues and I'm well aware of the repair costs of an older BMW, also have an E46 MSport Coupé (currently off the road).

Thoughts?!!

Toyotafanboi · 20-02-2018 10:00pm

I'd marry it.

If you sell it for a 3k loss and buy a diesel Passat or something you'll be left hollow on the inside.

If you spend 3k on it, you'll be slightly poorer but infinitely happier.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 20-02-2018 10:38pm

So sell it an loose 2k and by crap car or repair it and pay 2k but have a nice car.....no decision there.

Tuco88 · 20-02-2018 11:06pm

It looks like you have already decided to sell it so.

I would sell, it will end up being a constant reminder by the sounds of it.

Leonard Hofstadter · 21-02-2018 1:17am

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

So sell it an loose 2k and by crap car or repair it and pay 2k but have a nice car.....no decision there.

I agree with this, plus it's a definite selling point once it's done.

I didn't think these engines were still having problems with the injectors to be honest, BMW did a recall on these back in 2010.

According to this thread, they need to be 'index 11' injectors (whatever that means).

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=1651336

It would also appear once the injector issue is sorted the engine shouldn't give you any more hassle.

An easy decision to make.... now if it starts costing that much again in a few months' time then it's definitely time to cut and run IMO.

Skylinehead · 21-02-2018 1:41am

Oh man you only got the 325 a few months back, same as me

I think mine is slightly newer, but cost near 10k compared to your 7 (really cheap for a 3 litre 325, it's the 07 2.5s that tend to cost that). Honestly, fix it. 2k is a lot, but you stand to lose that by selling it anyway.

Mine shudders a little in the cold until it gets to a better temperature, not sure what that means. Need to look into it.

the_syco · 21-02-2018 2:27am

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

The recommended course of action is to replace all 6 injectors at a cost of approximately €2,000+. After tyres and various other bits for NCT, the car would be standing me about €10,000.
...
I'm torn between putting more money into the car and potentially being married to it forever or cutting my losses and selling it at a hefty (€2-2.5k) loss and buying something sensible to tide me over.

Look at it this way; either way, you'll lose the €2k, and at least this way you get a more solid car.

If you sell it, and buy another car, you could end up with another lemon looking to suck your wallet dry.

the_syco · 21-02-2018 2:42am

Skylinehead wrote: »

Mine shudders a little in the cold until it gets to a better temperature, not sure what that means. Need to look into it.

Google asks could the tyres could be getting "flat spots" (from being in the one place) that disappear when the tyres heat up?

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 8:32am

captainspeed wrote: »

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

So sell it an loose 2k and by crap car or repair it and pay 2k but have a nice car.....no decision there.

I agree with this, plus it's a definite selling point once it's done.

I didn't think these engines were still having problems with the injectors to be honest, BMW did a recall on these back in 2010.

According to this thread, they need to be 'index 11' injectors (whatever that means).

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=1651336

It would also appear once the injector issue is sorted the engine shouldn't give you any more hassle.

An easy decision to make.... now if it starts costing that much again in a few months' time then it's definitely time to cut and run IMO.

That's my dilemma, the recall has been done in the car already and they've failed again. High pressure fuel pump and injectors were done in 2012 by BMW. I've spent the week on the phone to BMW looking for them to pitch in with goodwill to no avail.

Have read every thread on this issue, believe me! No supplier that I spoke to, even BMW can confirm the index of the injectors they are supplying prior to order. The index refers to the design revision, 07, 08, ,10, 11 and apparently there's an index 12 according to some US forums. The N53 wasn't sold there but it shares injectors with the N54 335 engine.

So, what I'm cautious about is paying out 2-3k+ now and ending up doing the same thing again in X months time at which point I am completely married to it.

jhud · 21-02-2018 9:19am

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

That's my dilemma, the recall has been done in the car already and they've failed again. High pressure fuel pump and injectors were done in 2012 by BMW. I've spent the week on the phone to BMW looking for them to pitch in with goodwill to no avail.

Have read every thread on this issue, believe me! No supplier that I spoke to, even BMW can confirm the index of the injectors they are supplying prior to order. The index refers to the design revision, 07, 08, ,10, 11 and apparently there's an index 12 according to some US forums. The N53 wasn't sold there but it shares injectors with the N54 335 engine.

So, what I'm cautious about is paying out 2-3k+ now and ending up doing the same thing again in X months time at which point I am completely married to it.

Dont some places offer 1 or 2 year warranty on parts fitted by them(think its main dealers)?

Skylinehead · 21-02-2018 11:59am

the_syco wrote: »

Google asks could the tyres could be getting "flat spots" (from being in the one place) that disappear when the tyres heat up?

I googled it myself and got anything from that to injectors to VANOS to timing chain, there doesn't seem to be an obvious answer.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 1:59pm

Skylinehead wrote: »

I googled it myself and got anything from that to injectors to VANOS to timing chain, there doesn't seem to be an obvious answer.

And for that reason, I'm out. :P

Sold this morning. Thanks for the input everyone. Will drive a loaner car for a while and consider my options then. One of which is putting my E46 back on the road!

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 2:02pm

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

I'm torn between putting more money into the car and potentially being married to it forever or cutting my losses and selling it at a hefty (€2-2.5k) loss and buying something sensible to tide me over.

Sell it at a loss and buy something fun, but slightly more reliable than a beemer (like, just about anything other than something French).

Avatar MIA · 21-02-2018 2:10pm

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

And for that reason, I'm out. :P

Sold this morning.

How much, if that's not too painful a question.

raspberrypi67 · 21-02-2018 2:14pm

Can I just ask,

do you guys use your indicators?

Cheers

Skylinehead wrote: »

Oh man you only got the 325 a few months back, same as me

I think mine is slightly newer, but cost near 10k compared to your 7 (really cheap for a 3 litre 325, it's the 07 2.5s that tend to cost that). Honestly, fix it. 2k is a lot, but you stand to lose that by selling it anyway.

Mine shudders a little in the cold until it gets to a better temperature, not sure what that means. Need to look into it.

Dravokivich · 21-02-2018 2:20pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Can I just ask,

do you guys use your indicators?

Cheers

I've used mine once to check they work.

They do.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 21-02-2018 2:29pm

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 2:59pm

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

I know, I know.

I have a few other financial commitments about to hit me and I just didn't want to gamble this time around.

The way I'm seeing it is that I've done 4 cylinder & 6 cylinder petrol BMW's so that trend will lead me somewhere interesting again in the future. :pac::cool:

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 3:08pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Sell it at a loss and buy something fun, but slightly more reliable than a beemer (like, just about anything other than something French).

I'm open to suggestions but heavily biased towards RWD. Absolutely no interest in anything Audi / VW / Seat / Skoda.

Peatys · 21-02-2018 3:09pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Can I just ask,

do you guys use your indicators?

Cheers

Only to push people out of our lane gently remind pesants not to be using the German car lane.

Peatys · 21-02-2018 3:12pm

Dravokivich wrote: »

I've used mine once to check they work.

They do.

The nct lad will check them for you. No need to be at that
Charlie Work yourself .

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 3:13pm

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

I'm open to suggestions but heavily biased towards RWD. Absolutely no interest in anything Audi / VW / Seat / Skoda.

Nissan 350Z is hard to beat.

Mazda MX5 (if you don't need space and don't mind discomfort most of the year)
Mazda RX8 (which in fairness would rival the beemer for unreliability)
One of the interesting Mercs - E55 AMG if you could get one?

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 3:20pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Nissan 350Z is hard to beat.

Mazda MX5 (if you don't need space and don't mind discomfort most of the year)
Mazda RX8 (which in fairness would rival the beemer for unreliability)
One of the interesting Mercs - E55 AMG if you could get one?

350Z is of most interest there.

It'll be the tail end of this year or early next before I start properly shopping for an interesting car again.

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 3:31pm

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

350Z is of most interest there.

It'll be the tail end of this year or early next before I start properly shopping for an interesting car again.

Yeah, I'm waiting until my kids are all old enough to drive themselves and then I'm buying a 350Z in the brightest shade of middle-age-crisis-red I can find.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 3:57pm

Gravelly wrote: »

Yeah, I'm waiting until my kids are all old enough to drive themselves and then I'm buying a 350Z in the brightest shade of middle-age-crisis-red I can find.

Or a CPO Tesla S!

Drove one last year, the acceleration is unbelievable.

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 3:58pm

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

Or a CPO Tesla S!

Drove one last year, the acceleration is unbelievable.

Drove one myself recently (employer evaluating them as company cars!) and it blew me away, but, damn, I missed the noise!

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 5:16pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

1800e road tax a year for a average handling RWD car (gets better with some mods) for me just isn't worth it.

I can't speak as to the standard cars handling on the road (though I have heard it isn't at, say, Porsche levels) but I drove a lightly-modded one on a track and it was bleedin' fantastic. Not the sharpest handling car I've ever driven, but certainly fun. Sometimes perfect handling doesn't make for the most involving car.

Idbatterim · 21-02-2018 5:47pm

whats wrong with the E46 coupe?

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 5:55pm

LIGHTNING wrote: »

So exactly what I said in my post then :pac:

Not really, I can see that I didn't make it clear in my post, but I think it probably is worth it, if the tax cost is something you can live with.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 5:57pm

Idbatterim wrote: »

whats wrong with the E46 coupe?

2 few cylinders and I've been driving it for 4 years! :-)

It actually needs a little attention around the wheel arches and a general tidy up but it's still in great nick for a 15 year old car and engine runs just fine.

vintagevrs · 21-02-2018 6:07pm

350 zeds are not a bad shout. Crap tax, but they are reliable, comfortable cruisers, rwd and make a lovely noise. I had one and really liked it but I was doing big miles at the time and the fuel bill was a bit sore for me then.

That's the day I traded mine for a 4 pot diesel....:(

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-350z-final-price-drop/16889687

selectamatic · 21-02-2018 6:26pm

A well spec'd Lexus is250 might suit ya.

It'd have reliability, rwd and number of cylinders ticked off on the list anyways.

Skylinehead · 21-02-2018 6:32pm

raspberrypi67 wrote: »

Can I just ask,

do you guys use your indicators?

Cheers

I find they're a useful complement to flashing my lights when I'm 4cm from someones rear bumper :pac:

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 6:37pm

vintagevrs wrote: »

350 zeds are not a bad shout. Crap tax, but they are reliable, comfortable cruisers, rwd and make a lovely noise. I had one and really liked it but I was doing big miles at the time and the fuel bill was a bit sore for me then.

That's the day I traded mine for a 4 pot diesel....:(

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-350z-final-price-drop/16889687

The sound is bloody beautiful. It would make up for a lot of shortcomings!

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 21-02-2018 7:54pm

350z....big engine, big tax, ok noise, low power, handling is alright.

You can do a lot better these days, the z is very old school without yet being cool old school.

OP just get to it already and buy a ///m car.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 8:05pm

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

350z....big engine, big tax, ok noise, low power, handling is alright.

You can do a lot better these days, the z is very old school without yet being cool old school.

OP just get to it already and buy a ///m car.

I actually found out today where there's a mint E46 M3 in storage! Soft top though. Aaaand all of the other financial reasons not to buy one!

Gravelly · 21-02-2018 8:05pm

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

350z....big engine, big tax, ok noise, low power, handling is alright.

You can do a lot better these days, the z is very old school without yet being cool old school.

OP just get to it already and buy a ///m car.

:rolleyes:

166man · 21-02-2018 8:12pm

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

350z....big engine, big tax, ok noise, low power, handling is alright.

You can do a lot better these days, the z is very old school without yet being cool old school.

OP just get to it already and buy a ///m car.

There’s other cars out there

Gravelly wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I think the 350z is wonderful. I drove a boardsies one and thought it was absolutely superb. Raw around the edges but was a really enjoyable car to drive.

Sometimes cars don’t have to be “perfect” to be enjoyable. I know I’d have one over the equivalent 3 Series any day

Skylinehead · 21-02-2018 9:06pm

Braxton Nutritious Seismograph wrote: »

350z....big engine, big tax, ok noise, low power, handling is alright.

You can do a lot better these days, the z is very old school without yet being cool old school.

OP just get to it already and buy a ///m car.

Remember he's coming from a 325, hardly low when you're increasing the power...

vintagevrs · 21-02-2018 9:09pm

280 or 300ish bhp is plenty to enjoy on Irish roads. Exhaust note is subjective obviously, but in this case Fitz, you're wrong.

It sounds great. Much better than the s54 that people seem to love imo.

James Bond Junior · 21-02-2018 9:17pm

Z4 3.0si coupe. Drive for a few years, mind it and retire it when the time comes to be used as a future classic. I can see them being worth a small fortune yet.

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 9:32pm

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Z4 3.0si coupe. Drive for a few years, mind it and retire it when the time comes to be used as a future classic. I can see them being worth a small fortune yet.

Apt username is apt!

I've always really liked the look of the Z4 and they are definitely rarer than a 3 Series Coup. Interesting. Given the vintage, I wonder if it also has the N53 engine?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/z4-coupe

Leonard Hofstadter · 21-02-2018 9:51pm

Rowley Birkin QC wrote: »

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Z4 3.0si coupe. Drive for a few years, mind it and retire it when the time comes to be used as a future classic. I can see them being worth a small fortune yet.

Apt username is apt!

I've always really liked the look of the Z4 and they are definitely rarer than a 3 Series Coup. Interesting. Given the vintage, I wonder if it also has the N53 engine?

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/z4-coupe

Z4s never got the N53 engine regardless of year. Sadly they replaced the straight six for the lower powered models with only four cylinders back around 2012.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 21-02-2018 10:08pm

The equivalent 3 series to a 350z would be a e46 m3, the rivals would be a rx8, or a boxster (now thats an interesting option or a Caymen???)....I know which one I would rather have. Look i think the rx8 is a ball of sh1te, and I owned one, it takes all sorts. I drove the 350Z and was deeply unimpressed, its felt slow, throttle response was sluggish and it was not keen to rev, interior is shocking bad, seats were uncomfortable, rock hard suspension, strict 2 seater and a JDM type look that is not for me. 300bhp is fine, but it didnt feel 300 fast.

Look it has a big fanbase, so it must have some redeeming features but I couldnt find them...but to be honest if a cars not German or Italian I am not really open to it I am a fanboy.

James Bond Junior · 21-02-2018 10:17pm

I was going to suggest a cayman but wasnt sure of the budget. E92 in some type of 6cyl would be nice but something about the Z4 coupe scream nicer to me.

I had my heart set on getting one this year as I thought I would be moving jobs and wouldn't be doing 500 odd miles a week anymore, more like 50. Did change job but driving slighter further than I was doing.. I live vicariously through these threads tbh.

What about something from the alpina stable? I like the idea of a B3 personally.

commited · 21-02-2018 11:01pm

Holy crap, thread delivers in less than 12hours. Was coming on here to offer to help, I've replaced N53&N54 injectors before and it's a really easy job to do - this could have been done for less than €500. If they're already "11" index injectors then you would only need to replace 1 injector (but I've not heard of these failing). The latest design of injector has an excellent reputation, same for the latest revision of HPFP.

Huge pity to see you make a knee jerk reaction in less than 12 hours like this with a car you obviously liked and any car you buy now may throw up a big bill!

Rowley Birkin QC · 21-02-2018 11:25pm

Appreciate it but all the injectors were Index 7 so, from what I've read, they couldn't be mixed and matched.

Anyway, it's gone now. Hope the new owner gets it running right. On to something else for me.

commited · 22-02-2018 9:32am

For anyone googling this thread or in a similar situation, you can pick up index 11 injectors for €50-80 second hand. New prices are criminal and as the engine wasn't sold in US aftermarket support is low.

OP, best of luck with next car.

raspberrypi67 · 22-02-2018 12:00pm

LOL

Skylinehead wrote: »

I find they're a useful complement to flashing my lights when I'm 4cm from someones rear bumper :pac:

Leonard Hofstadter · 22-02-2018 5:42pm

commited wrote: »

Holy crap, thread delivers in less than 12hours. Was coming on here to offer to help, I've replaced N53&N54 injectors before and it's a really easy job to do - this could have been done for less than €500. If they're already "11" index injectors then you would only need to replace 1 injector (but I've not heard of these failing). The latest design of injector has an excellent reputation, same for the latest revision of HPFP.

Huge pity to see you make a knee jerk reaction in less than 12 hours like this with a car you obviously liked and any car you buy now may throw up a big bill!

This is a very useful post for anyone else with an N53 engine, or someone looking to buy a car with this engine.

If I have understood you correctly, these engines are fine so long as the injectors have been replaced with 'Index 11' type? If they are the old style injectors there will be problems similar to the OP's?

Would that also apply for cars with the N43 (four cylinder) engine?

Skylinehead · 22-02-2018 6:44pm

commited wrote: »

Holy crap, thread delivers in less than 12hours. Was coming on here to offer to help, I've replaced N53&N54 injectors before and it's a really easy job to do - this could have been done for less than €500. If they're already "11" index injectors then you would only need to replace 1 injector (but I've not heard of these failing). The latest design of injector has an excellent reputation, same for the latest revision of HPFP.

Huge pity to see you make a knee jerk reaction in less than 12 hours like this with a car you obviously liked and any car you buy now may throw up a big bill!

captainspeed wrote: »

This is a very useful post for anyone else with an N53 engine, or someone looking to buy a car with this engine.

If I have understood you correctly, these engines are fine so long as the injectors have been replaced with 'Index 11' type? If they are the old style injectors there will be problems similar to the OP's?

Would that also apply for cars with the N43 (four cylinder) engine?

I'll be picking brains when mine inevitably goes wrong

Repair or sell? - Man maths involved!

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