Road safety in EU now and 10 years ago.

CiniO · 05-03-2014 1:21pm #1

I just though this might be interesting map for some.

Looks like Ireland did a brilliant job on road safety over last 10 years.

biko · 05-03-2014 1:25pm

Interesting, looks like every single country has managed to reduce death by quite a lot.
LV really have pushed those numbers down

whomitconcerns · 05-03-2014 1:28pm

And iceland...101 down to 28...thats some drop! There must be more to that then just a change of policy.

CiniO · 05-03-2014 1:33pm

I'd say the biggest factor in all the countries is fact that car fleet is much safer.
10 years ago, most people in EU drove 90's car, which left plenty to desire when it comes to safety.
Airbags, ABS, etc was rather reserved for more luxury, more expensive cars.
Now this is absolute standard.

cml387 · 05-03-2014 1:36pm

Remember that accident in Kent on the bridge? That multiple accident involving hundreds of cars hadn't a single fatality.
I imagine the story would have been different 20 years ago.

HandsomeDan · 05-03-2014 1:56pm

Show this to the gobs who pine for the ****boxes of the 90's :pac:

I'd say road improvements have contributed also.

piston · 05-03-2014 2:13pm

Drivers haven't improved, that is for sure!

JackF1 · 05-03-2014 2:14pm

ESP and it's ilk are also a contributing factor. Additionally I consider wider tires to serve up huge grip benefits at normal speeds I'd find it quite hard to loose control. Having driven older cars it's quite alarming how easy it is to get into trouble

Chris_Heilong · 05-03-2014 2:33pm

Romania have not done much better at all, actually considering that safe cars are a really big factor in the lower Death rates I would say Romania are actually worse than 10 years ago.

Del2005 · 05-03-2014 2:39pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Romania have not done much better at all, actually considering that safe cars are a really big factor in the lower Death rates I would say Romania are actually worse than 10 years ago.

A large part of our decrease is due to the increase in motorways over the same period. Romania hasn't got that much of a motorway network. Also they are still driving a lot of older cars which have low NCAP ratings if they have any.

CiniO · 05-03-2014 2:46pm

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Romania have not done much better at all, actually considering that safe cars are a really big factor in the lower Death rates I would say Romania are actually worse than 10 years ago.

I'd say in Romania most people still drive 90's cars. Maybe even 80's.

CiniO · 05-03-2014 2:48pm

Del2005 wrote: »

A large part of our decrease is due to the increase in motorways over the same period. Romania hasn't got that much of a motorway network. Also they are still driving a lot of older cars which have low NCAP ratings if they have any.

Ireland and few other countries have increased motorway network greatly over last 10 years.
But most countries haven't extended motorway network at all, and still gained significent reduction in road deaths.

cruizer101 · 05-03-2014 2:52pm

Motorways definitely have big part to play in this.

Think about all the old National routes and the amount of overtaking that would of gone on, this is eliminated by the motorway network. No I don't know any actual figures but I'm sure a large number of accidents would have been due to dangerous overtaking on those roads.

Improved car safety would be a factor too. Would be interesting to see figures for number of accidents where an injury has occured and see has it gone down as much, or are the injuries these days just less critical due to car safety.

tin79 · 05-03-2014 2:58pm

OSI wrote: »

Surprised the UK's figure is that much lower than ours to be honest. I know a lot less of their traffic would be on B/R roads, but still their roads are much busier than ours.

Its only 7 deaths per year in the difference? Not a huge gap

Greenmachine · 05-03-2014 3:13pm

tin79 wrote: »

Its only 7 deaths per year in the difference? Not a huge gap

25% higher in Ireland pro rata. Some astonishing drops across lots of EU countries. Multiple countries appear to have drops in road deaths in excess of 50%.

whomitconcerns · 05-03-2014 4:27pm

Romania has a very large amount of old steel/metal cars still....very old 80s dacias and others...and as someone else has pointed out very few motorways. Add in some very high powered nouveau riche in their ferraris and the ilk and you can have a fine mix of dangerous and crazy driving.

Add in that most roads are unlit outside the city, in overall balance the number is lower than it should be..not that it makes it any better.

However...and maybe this is why the number isn't exponentially higher...generally driving standards are better if more aggressive than here though....anyway...

Eric Cartman · 05-03-2014 4:38pm

10 years ago for this survey was in 2003 , a lot more car culture was present here for sure , in the UK it was also a bigger scene.

A lot of factors at play here taking Ireland and the UK as big examples

ANPR used by police (harder for banned / uninsured drivers to drive)
massive clampdowns in drink driving in cities.
cars getting safer, older cars leaving the roads.
car culture / 'boy racer culture' dying out and them all fcuking off to australia.
more motorways.
better lit roads.
fuel prices higher , people driving less mileage.

cheap car finance in 2004-2007 let a lot of people buy new cars , that are now cheap to buy second hand so even people with very little money can buy fairly safe cars.

I would say these stats have nothing to do with driving standards, RSA adverts or speeding

Red Kev · 05-03-2014 6:59pm

Hope Gaybo doesn't see this thread.....

ednwireland · 05-03-2014 8:38pm

still driving my 88 corolla in 2002 no airbags no side impact bars, 155 tyres etc etc

upto on 2005 octavia now

Nixer Jim · 05-03-2014 9:15pm

JackF1 wrote: »

ESP and it's ilk are also a contributing factor. Additionally I consider wider tires to serve up huge grip benefits at normal speeds I'd find it quite hard to loose control. Having driven older cars it's quite alarming how easy it is to get into trouble

Wider tyres are worse in the wet though

kirving · 05-03-2014 11:56pm

All things being equal, wider tyres might be marginally worse in terms of aquaplaning, but this is mitigated by more effective tread patterns on newer tyres.

After that though, the static friction of a tyre is not dependant on it's surface area, and a wider tyre should be more stable, better able to handle lateral forces, and gives a greater surface area in which grip can be found, amongst other benefits.

CiniO · 09-03-2014 4:31pm

There's one more thing in relation to road safety in Ireland and result of 35 people killed per million in 2012.

Ireland population is 4.588 million.
But County Dublin population is 1.270 million.

Road deaths in 2012 were 162, but only 12 in county Dublin.

Therefore while all Ireland result is 35 people killed per million, co. Dublin result is 9.5 people killed per million, while rest of Ireland result is 45 people killed per million.
In reality difference is probably even bigger, as there is more people living in Dublin than official population figures (students, workers living there Mon-Fri, etc)...

Interesting also - result for co. Galway (population 250k, road deaths in 2012: 18) is 72.
So it's much more dangerous to drive in co. Galway than in most other EU countries.

HandsomeDan · 10-03-2014 10:52am

CiniO wrote: »

...
So it's much more dangerous to drive in co. Galway than in most other EU countries.

Nope. Other EU countries will also have their safe and less safe areas, Ireland is not unique in this.

timmy4u2 · 10-03-2014 11:11am

Del2005 wrote: »

A large part of our decrease is due to the increase in motorways over the same period. Romania hasn't got that much of a motorway network. Also they are still driving a lot of older cars which have low NCAP ratings if they have any.

Having driven through Romania several times their motorways, that they have, are very good and they have many expressways that are not much different to motorways.
I would say that their roads are better than Hungary and Bulgaria.

I am amazed that Romanias road deaths are not higher given the huge amountvof traffic that passes through the country.

You will meet thousands of HGV in any hour of driving there and they can be scarey on the hilly roads as they will drive within a foot of your rear if you are not going fast enough for them
Their cars are, on average, much better and newer than their immediate neighbours

CJhaughey · 10-03-2014 11:34am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

gives a greater surface area in which grip can be found, amongst other benefits.

How does the surface area get larger on a wider tyre?
Its the same area if the vehicle weight and the internal pressure in the tyre are the same, its only the shape of the contact patch that changes.
Maybe because modern cars are heavier the size of the patch is larger than older lighter cars?

CiniO · 10-03-2014 11:55am

HandsomeDan wrote: »

Nope. Other EU countries will also have their safe and less safe areas, Ireland is not unique in this.

Of course.
But Ireland is quite unique as over a quarter of population lives in one small county (Dublin). And this accounts for only 5% of road deaths.
So anyone living and driving/walking/cycling in Dublin can feel really safe.
While people living and using roads in other counties are in much bigger danger.

For me who lives in Mayo and mostly drives around Mayo/Galway road safety is much worse that for some spending most of his time in Dublin.

And as you said. In other countries there are also differences between regions, but I don't believe they are as big as in Ireland.

While Polish road safety is much worse than Irish, but I reckon when I go to my home in Poland (which is quite safe region for road safety) I rather feel safer there than in west of Ireland.
Especially that big part of road causalities there (in Poland) are pedestrians and cyclists at night either drunk or without any lights/reflective clothin (or both). Something I never do.

timmy4u2 · 11-03-2014 11:10pm

QUOTE=CiniO;89387264]Of course.
But Ireland is quite unique as over a quarter of population lives in one small county (Dublin). And this accounts for only 5% of road deaths.
So anyone living and driving/walking/cycling in Dublin can feel really safe.
While people living and using roads in other counties are in much bigger danger.

For me who lives in Mayo and mostly drives around Mayo/Galway road safety is much worse that for some spending most of his time in Dublin.

And as you said. In other countries there are also differences between regions, but I don't believe they are as big as in Ireland.

While Polish road safety is much worse than Irish, but I reckon when I go to my home in Poland (which is quite safe region for road safety) I rather feel safer there than in west of Ireland.
Especially that big part of road causalities there (in Poland) are pedestrians and cyclists at night either drunk or without any lights/reflective clothin (or both). Something I never do.[/QUOTE]

There are a few things not being considered when referring to Dublin being a very safe place to drive.

You have much better roads than in most other parts of the Country with more motorways and dual carriageways, even treble carriageways.
You have more roadways that are lit up with more pedestrian crossings and cycle paths.

You have much better public transport and you also have to take into account the occupancy statistics compared to the rest of the country areas.

Also due to congestion traffic, especially at the morning and evening rush hour, will be travelling much slower than elsewhere.
It not down to the quality of the drivers.

AugustusMinimus · 11-03-2014 11:40pm

Ireland's biggest issue is just how dispersed out population is.

We have probably the least urbanised population in Europe with one off housing literally everywhere in the countryside. Compare this to Scotland where a majority of the population live in cities and where the countryside is largely empty of one off housing.

What does this do ? Well it means that a larger percentage of the population have to use substandard roads each day in comparison to people in other countries.

CiniO · 11-03-2014 11:41pm

timmy4u2 wrote: »

There are a few things not being considered when referring to Dublin being a very safe place to drive.

You have much better roads than in most other parts of the Country with more motorways and dual carriageways, even treble carriageways.
You have more roadways that are lit up with more pedestrian crossings and cycle paths.

You have much better public transport and you also have to take into account the occupancy statistics compared to the rest of the country areas.

Also due to congestion traffic, especially at the morning and evening rush hour, will be travelling much slower than elsewhere.
It not down to the quality of the drivers.

I never said it was.
I just said Dublin was significantly safer than rest of the country

timmy4u2 · 12-03-2014 12:47am

CiniO wrote: »

I never said it was.
I just said Dublin was significantly safer than rest of the country

Didn't say you did. Just emphasising the reasons.:)

carrotcake · 12-03-2014 12:05pm

Just to add my own two cents about Romania...

I don't find the age of the cars to be all that high. The number of old Dacias on the roads has fallen of a cliff, compared to 10 years ago. Probably thanks to the scrappage scheme (which has been running for years). According to a report from January, just less than half of Romanian vehicles are 6-10 years old, a quarter are 11-15, and more than a sixth are over 20. I don't have any other figures, but I'd say it's safe to assume that more than three quarters are from 2000 onwards. 80s cars are certainly rare, at least around my way.

In my opinion, the reason why the number of deaths hasn't dropped as much as other countries is simply because there are way more cars on the roads now. Car ownership has almost quadrupled since 1990, and is set to double again by 2025. There are currently 6 million vehicles here, and in a country of 19 million people, there's still a lot of room for growth.

The number of deaths won't go down that much until there is a motorway network connecting the country. What's there now is not a network. I don't think it's a coincidence that the country has the fewest number of motorway kms per head in the EU.

timmy4u2 · 12-03-2014 11:45pm

carrotcake wrote: »

Just to add my own two cents about Romania...

I don't find the age of the cars to be all that high. The number of old Dacias on the roads has fallen of a cliff, compared to 10 years ago. Probably thanks to the scrappage scheme (which has been running for years). According to a report from January, just less than half of Romanian vehicles are 6-10 years old, a quarter are 11-15, and more than a sixth are over 20. I don't have any other figures, but I'd say it's safe to assume that more than three quarters are from 2000 onwards. 80s cars are certainly rare, at least around my way.

In my opinion, the reason why the number of deaths hasn't dropped as much as other countries is simply because there are way more cars on the roads now. Car ownership has almost quadrupled since 1990, and is set to double again by 2025. There are currently 6 million vehicles here, and in a country of 19 million people, there's still a lot of room for growth.

The number of deaths won't go down that much until there is a motorway network connecting the country. What's there now is not a network. I don't think it's a coincidence that the country has the fewest number of motorway kms per head in the EU.

All very true but not forgetting the huge volume of passing traffic, especially commercial traffic

carrotcake · 13-03-2014 8:01am

timmy4u2 wrote: »

All very true but not forgetting the huge volume of passing traffic, especially commercial traffic

Don't I know. You'd get to your destination in half the time, if it wasn't for all these poxy trucks in the way.

kirving · 13-03-2014 8:45am

CJhaughey wrote: »

How does the surface area get larger on a wider tyre?
Its the same area if the vehicle weight and the internal pressure in the tyre are the same, its only the shape of the contact patch that changes.
Maybe because modern cars are heavier the size of the patch is larger than older lighter cars?

Sorry, you're right, the surface are will depend solely on pressure and weight on the tyre. What I meant is that the surface area of the tyres track is larger, since its wider. Within this width, the tyre has a better chance of finding the grip it needs.

Sheldons Brain · 13-03-2014 12:42pm

Surprised the UK's figure is that much lower than ours to be honest. I know a lot less of their traffic would be on B/R roads, but still their roads are much busier than ours.

Busier does not mean more fatal accidents. Britain is very densely populated and very urbanised, in London you could have enormous amounts of traffic, but not a vast number of fatal accidents.

It is notable that Europe has made good progress and the US much less rapid progress, compare the State of Kentucky (pop 4.38m) with the Rep. Of Ireland (pop 4.6m), although US cars have similar safety features.
http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2013/12/26/kentucky-road-fatalities-lowest-since-1940s

timmy4u2 · 13-03-2014 9:19pm

Sheldons Brain wrote: »

Busier does not mean more fatal accidents. Britain is very densely populated and very urbanised, in London you could have enormous amounts of traffic, but not a vast number of fatal accidents.

It is notable that Europe has made good progress and the US much less rapid progress, compare the State of Kentucky (pop 4.38m) with the Rep. Of Ireland (pop 4.6m), although US cars have similar safety features.
http://www.propertycasualty360.com/2013/12/26/kentucky-road-fatalities-lowest-since-1940s

As I said before about Dublin, in London you have better roads, slower traffic, better lighting, more pedestrian crossings, and more one way streets so fatal accidents would be less

timmy4u2 · 13-03-2014 9:26pm

carrotcake wrote: »

Don't I know. You'd get to your destination in half the time, if it wasn't for all these poxy trucks in the way.

Some amount of trucks there.
The last time I was passing through Romania I had a 4X4 that was loaded down on its way to an orphanage and my passenger was terrified by the attention these rigs were paying tonour rear end.

Santa Cruz · 13-03-2014 9:28pm

Of course the introduction of penalty points was a great success here

Popoutman · 14-03-2014 1:36am

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Sorry, you're right, the surface are will depend solely on pressure and weight on the tyre. What I meant is that the surface area of the tyres track is larger, since its wider. Within this width, the tyre has a better chance of finding the grip it needs.

True assuming that the tyre compound is identical. Softer compound tyres will in general get better grip due to being able to deform to 'fit' the road surface in a better way. In general the wider, lower-profile tyres will have more useful compounds used in the tyres, and usually much better construction to deform less to maintain the lower profile shape, and all of these factors come together to mean better grip for the car.

Road safety in EU now and 10 years ago.

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