EV company car insurance?

cfingers · 04-07-2019 12:21am #1

I am thinking of buying an electric car via my company. I am an IT contractor and it’s just me in company.

Has anybody recommendations for an insurance company/broker?

spakman · 04-07-2019 9:21am

cfingers wrote: »

I am thinking of buying an electric car via my company. I am an IT contractor and it’s just me in company.

Has anybody recommendations for an insurance company/broker?

Was a lot of work to get any place to even give me a quote!
In the end, the best deal I got was QuoteDevil - they're the broker, policy actually with Axa).

beanian · 04-07-2019 9:28am

cfingers wrote: »

I am thinking of buying an electric car via my company. I am an IT contractor and it’s just me in company.

Has anybody recommendations for an insurance company/broker?

Literally in the exact same scenario as you. I got a decent quote of FBD. The key is not getting or asking for commercial insurance but asking for a private policy in your companies name.

Calahonda52 · 04-07-2019 12:46pm

beanian wrote: »

Literally in the exact same scenario as you. I got a decent quote of FBD. The key is not getting or asking for commercial insurance but asking for a private policy in your companies name.

So how would this work for using the vehicle for work?

If you are not using it for work, how can you expense it in the company, from a tax perspective?

Have you existing business with them?

air · 04-07-2019 12:56pm

There's no obligation on you to use a company car for work at all once you pay your BIK (currently zero for EVs). Plenty of executives would have company cars that they never use for work purposes due to being office based.

rduggy · 04-07-2019 1:31pm

air wrote: »

There's no obligation on you to use a company car for work at all once you pay your BIK (currently zero for EVs). Plenty of executives would have company cars that they never use for work purposes due to being office based.

My understanding of this was that 60% of the travelling MUST be for work

Calahonda52 · 04-07-2019 1:46pm

air wrote: »

There's no obligation on you to use a company car for work at all once you pay your BIK (currently zero for EVs). Plenty of executives would have company cars that they never use for work purposes due to being office based.

So this car will never be used by you for work?
So from a tax perspective, it is of no benefit to the company?
How will justify expensing the car then to the tax man?
Are you a director or/and an employee of what on the face of it seems to be a close company?
https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/claim-car-expenses-capital-allowances.pdf

air · 04-07-2019 1:59pm

That form relates to claims for company use of a private car, no relevance to company owned vehicles as far as I can tell.

cfingers · 04-07-2019 2:33pm

beanian wrote: »

Literally in the exact same scenario as you. I got a decent quote of FBD. The key is not getting or asking for commercial insurance but asking for a private policy in your companies name.

Thanks. FBD is a great shout. One the online form it asks who owns the car and you can select "My Company"

cfingers · 04-07-2019 2:34pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

So this car will never be used by you for work?
So from a tax perspective, it is of no benefit to the company?
How will justify expensing the car then to the tax man?
Are you a director or/and an employee of what on the face of it seems to be a close company?
https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/documents/claim-car-expenses-capital-allowances.pdf

From a tax perspective the benefit to the company is that it keeps it's employee happy. It is a perk of the job.

air · 04-07-2019 2:45pm

cfingers wrote: »

From a tax perspective the benefit to the company is that it keeps it's employee happy. It is a perk of the job.

Precisely, the same as any other remuneration. The fact that it's zero tax rated is irrelevant is far as I can tell.

Calahonda52 · 04-07-2019 4:02pm

cfingers wrote: »

From a tax perspective the benefit to the company is that it keeps it's employee happy. It is a perk of the job.

Is there not a wholly and exclusively test?

If the car is 100% for personal use, it hardly passes that test.

So then it needs business use insurance cover.

I don't think u can have it both ways or perhaps we are in the realm of "A streetcar named Desire".

What is the main idea of A Streetcar Named Desire?
One of the first major themes of this book is the constant battle between fantasy and reality. Blanche explains to Mitch that she fibs because she refuses to accept the hand fate has dealt her. Lying to herself and to others allows her to make life appear as it should be rather than as it is.

The last time I looked, happiness was a cigar called hamlet, before we went all pc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_is_a_cigar_called_Hamlet

cfingers · 04-07-2019 4:51pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Is there not a wholly and exclusively test?

No there is not.

The company owns the car. The company allows me to use the car.
The use of the car is treated as a Benefit of Kind and the value of that benefit is dependent on the type of car and the amount of business mileage I do.

If Petrol or Diesel car the rate goes from 30% of the New value of the car down to 6% of the new value of the car.

For electric cars the BIK is 0% of the the new value of the car.

See https://www.revenue.ie/en/employing-people/benefit-in-kind-for-employers/private-use-of-company-cars/exemptions.aspx

eddhorse · 04-07-2019 7:35pm

Well its 0% if your EV including SEAI grant and VRT is under €50k.

Marcusm · 04-07-2019 8:10pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Is there not a wholly and exclusively test?

If the car is 100% for personal use, it hardly passes that test.

So then it needs business use insurance cover.

I don't think u can have it both ways or perhaps we are in the realm of "A streetcar named Desire".

What is the main idea of A Streetcar Named Desire?
One of the first major themes of this book is the constant battle between fantasy and reality. Blanche explains to Mitch that she fibs because she refuses to accept the hand fate has dealt her. Lying to herself and to others allows her to make life appear as it should be rather than as it is.

The last time I looked, happiness was a cigar called hamlet, before we went all pc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happiness_is_a_cigar_called_Hamlet

W&E arises in respect if the deduction of revenue expenses; the car would likely be purchased and capital allowances claimed. Irrespective, benefits provided to an employee would satisfy the W&E test. There need not be any business mileage and provided the OMVdies not exceed the ? €40k limit, there will be no BIK for a few years anyway.

beanian · 04-07-2019 10:17pm

Also if you are trading in your own personal vehicle towards the purchase of a company car then you can treat the value of your trade in as funds introduced by you to the company and are entitled to extract this amount from the company tax free

Water John · 04-07-2019 11:32pm

With FBD I mirrored my No Claims Bonus from the Policy of my other car that's with another provider.

pobber1 · 06-07-2019 1:24pm

beanian wrote: »

Literally in the exact same scenario as you. I got a decent quote of FBD. The key is not getting or asking for commercial insurance but asking for a private policy in your companies name.

Hi, thanks for the info. What did FBD say about driving other cars? I'm currently with Liberty and they told me that the driving other cars extention doesn't apply for a policy in the companies name. This would be a problem for me as I need to be able to drive my wife's car.

Has anyone hit the same issue?

beanian · 06-07-2019 7:50pm

pobber1 wrote: »

Hi, thanks for the info. What did FBD say about driving other cars? I'm currently with Liberty and they told me that the driving other cars extention doesn't apply for a policy in the companies name. This would be a problem for me as I need to be able to drive my wife's car.

Has anyone hit the same issue?

Good question, never queried this as we only have the one car

pobber1 · 06-07-2019 8:38pm

beanian wrote: »

Good question, never queried this as we only have the one car

I think I should be okay as I'm a named driver on my my wife's policy. It just means I can't drive any other cars. It's a bit inconvient as I do need to drive other cars from time to time. I'm going to check with other insurer's and see if they have the same restriction.

Water John · 06-07-2019 11:38pm

That may be an issue for me once the insurance on my ICE car runs out later in the year and I sell it. Other family will simply have to name me on their policies. I may even help reduce their quote.

argolis · 08-07-2019 1:55pm

I'm in a very similar situation. I'm surprised FBD have quoted people here, as I was told flat out on two separate occasions that they don't cover company car insurance on private cars! Of the brokers who would quote me, most would only quote me for Class 2 insurance costing from €1,500 and upwards. I ended up going with Liberty who were the only ones happy to give me a quote using Class 1/Social, Domestic & Leisure, of €770, so there's a huge difference if you can get Class 1 quoted.

My wife has her own car and to sort out being able to drive each other's cars, we have to each be a named driver on the other's policy i.e. she's a named driver on the company car (I'm not sure of this but it may be that the named driver has to be involved in the company in some way, in my case my wife is a director) and I'm a named driver in a personal capacity on her car policy. As far as I know, now I can't drive other cars however

Many will be aware of this, but you can transfer your personal No Claims Bonus into the company's name for the new policy but you can't transfer it back out. So, you'd want to be sure you're sticking with the company car option for a good few years!

Took delivery of my Niro there on Saturday, delighted with it although still getting the hang of it

MightyMunster · 09-07-2019 6:17am

argolis wrote: »

I'm in a very similar situation. I'm surprised FBD have quoted people here, as I was told flat out on two separate occasions that they don't cover company car insurance on private cars! Of the brokers who would quote me, most would only quote me for Class 2 insurance costing from €1,500 and upwards. I ended up going with Liberty who were the only ones happy to give me a quote using Class 1/Social, Domestic & Leisure, of €770, so there's a huge difference if you can get Class 1 quoted.

My wife has her own car and to sort out being able to drive each other's cars, we have to each be a named driver on the other's policy i.e. she's a named driver on the company car (I'm not sure of this but it may be that the named driver has to be involved in the company in some way, in my case my wife is a director) and I'm a named driver in a personal capacity on her car policy. As far as I know, now I can't drive other cars however

Many will be aware of this, but you can transfer your personal No Claims Bonus into the company's name for the new policy but you can't transfer it back out. So, you'd want to be sure you're sticking with the company car option for a good few years!

Took delivery of my Niro there on Saturday, delighted with it although still getting the hang of it

The op was the other way around I think, personal/private insurance with some business use in a company car

Business use of a private car shouldn't be too hard to get, think most companies quote for that

argolis · 09-07-2019 1:14pm

MightyMunster wrote: »

The op was the other way around I think, personal/private insurance with some business use in a company car

Business use of a private car shouldn't be too hard to get, think most companies quote for that

I don't think he is, but maybe the OP can clarify. The ltd company that I own just bought an EV car. I was told by an insurance agent that the insurance on the vehicle has to be in the name of the company. That is, you can't have a personal driving insurance policy on a company-owned car.

You're probably right that you can get some cover to use a personal car for some limited amount of business use but my understanding from this thread is that that's a different situation. Hopefully one or both answers will be useful anyway

Water John · 09-07-2019 1:42pm

Yes the Co has to insure the car as it owns it. I named my wife on the policy and she has no involvement in the Co.

charlieIRL · 09-07-2019 2:14pm

Our company "Car/Van" policy covers social, domestic and pleasure use as well as work related use.

MightyMunster · 09-07-2019 10:11pm

argolis wrote: »

I don't think he is, but maybe the OP can clarify. The ltd company that I own just bought an EV car. I was told by an insurance agent that the insurance on the vehicle has to be in the name of the company. That is, you can't have a personal driving insurance policy on a company-owned car.

You're probably right that you can get some cover to use a personal car for some limited amount of business use but my understanding from this thread is that that's a different situation. Hopefully one or both answers will be useful anyway

You can get a quote for this scenario from FBD, when doing the personal online application it asks who owns the car and you can put company, it's the 3rd post on the thread.

Water John · 09-07-2019 10:15pm

If you are looking at FBD, it's well worth while dropping into one of their branches. A few bob to be saved usually.

pobber1 · 15-07-2019 7:35pm

I rang FBD today to enquire about their company car policy, they do offer driving of other cars which Liberty does not. However, once you transfer your NCB to the company policy you can't get it back. Any personal policy you take out in the future you would be treated as someone who has zero NCB. I had to explicitly ask the agent this question because hadn't mentioned it.

I asked them to quote me as if I had no NCB just to see what the policy might cost, they said "In that case we wouldn't be able to quote you because you wouldn't have any NCB" :pac:
Absolutely bonkers.

MightyMunster · 15-07-2019 9:23pm

pobber1 wrote: »

I rang FBD today to enquire about their company car policy, they do offer driving of other cars which Liberty does not. However, once you transfer your NCB to the company policy you can't get it back. Any personal policy you take out in the future you would be treated as someone who has zero NCB. I had to explicitly ask the agent this question because hadn't mentioned it.

I asked them to quote me as if I had no NCB just to see what the policy might cost, they said "In that case we wouldn't be able to quote you because you wouldn't have any NCB" :pac:
Absolutely bonkers.

Is this under car insurance e.g. personal car insurance? Or "van" insurance?
Have to do this next month and seems to be very little info a available for company cars

pobber1 · 15-07-2019 9:39pm

MightyMunster wrote: »

Is this under car insurance e.g. personal car insurance? Or "van" insurance?
Have to do this next month and seems to be very little info a available for company cars

For FBD I selected 'Social, domestic, pleasure purposes and, use in connection with yourbusiness, including the carriage of goods.' on their website and then explained to the agent that the car would be owned by the company.

caster · 15-07-2019 9:46pm

pobber1 wrote: »

For FBD I selected 'Social, domestic, pleasure purposes and, use in connection with yourbusiness, including the carriage of goods.' on their website and then explained to the agent that the car would be owned by the company.

My understanding is that the key thing is that you fully own the company. Therefore as you own the company and the company owns the car, you can get the insurance in your name. That's how it was explained to me by FBD.

pobber1 · 15-07-2019 11:07pm

caster wrote: »

My understanding is that the key thing is that you fully own the company. Therefore as you own the company and the company owns the car, you can get the insurance in your name. That's how it was explained to me by FBD.

Thanks, I'll have to speak to them again as I don't fancy loosing all my NCB.

pobber1 · 16-07-2019 1:58pm

caster wrote: »

My understanding is that the key thing is that you fully own the company. Therefore as you own the company and the company owns the car, you can get the insurance in your name. That's how it was explained to me by FBD.

Was that commercial insurance?

MightyMunster · 16-07-2019 4:55pm

pobber1 wrote: »

Was that commercial insurance?

Sounds like private/personal insurance

pobber1 · 16-07-2019 5:18pm

MightyMunster wrote: »

Sounds like private/personal insurance

I rang them today but couldn't get a straight answer from them about how to insure a company car with a personal policy.

Water John · 16-07-2019 5:42pm

As I said above, call to one of their offices. FBD are used to this type of business, as many farmers are now Ltd Cos. Since the Co owns the vechicle that is who has to insure it IWT. I will have that conversation about my NCB later in the year.
Never found phone or online a good way to set up a new option on anything, grand way to renew.

pobber1 · 16-07-2019 5:52pm

Water John wrote: »

As I said above, call to one of their offices. FBD are used to this type of business, as many farmers are now Ltd Cos. Since the Co owns the vechicle that is who has to insure it IWT. I will have that conversation about my NCB later in the year.
Never found phone or online a good way to set up a new option on anything, grand way to renew.

There's no problem setting up the policy in the company's name. The issue is the surrender of personal NCB to the company and therefore any personal policy taken out in the future would have to be done with zero NCB.

Water John · 16-07-2019 6:20pm

It will be a pity if I have to hold onto a private policy on another car to keep my NCB. I presume any banger would do, since it wouldn't move.

caster · 16-07-2019 7:01pm

pobber1 wrote: »

Was that commercial insurance?

Not sure. But they fully understood the situation i.e. that it was a company owned car so I assume I would be fully covered. I would look in to it further before going ahead (plus they do not seem to cover the Model 3, yet anyway).

pobber1 · 17-07-2019 7:51pm

caster wrote: »

Not sure. But they fully understood the situation i.e. that it was a company owned car so I assume I would be fully covered. I would look in to it further before going ahead (plus they do not seem to cover the Model 3, yet anyway).

Thanks.

I rang FBD again today and finally got talking to someone who understood what I was asking. They said it doesn't matter that the company is 100% owned by one individual, if the car is in the companies name then the policy has to be too.

Transferring your NCB to the company means it's gone.

They did say that because I would be a named driver on the company policy that if I did ever get a personal policy again I would have that named driver experience to use to help discount the price of the policy, although this wouldn't be as valuable as my own NCB.

It's kind of sickening that I'd have to wave goodbye to 20 years NCB. I'm going to try a few more insurers but I'm not optimistic.

Calahonda52 · 17-07-2019 10:47pm

caster wrote: »

My understanding is that the key thing is that you fully own the company. Therefore as you own the company and the company owns the car, you can get the insurance in your name. That's how it was explained to me by FBD.

This is not correct.
You don't own the car and you cannot have an non life related insurable interest in something you don't own.

spakman · 19-07-2019 9:40am

Calahonda52 wrote: »

caster wrote: »

My understanding is that the key thing is that you fully own the company. Therefore as you own the company and the company owns the car, you can get the insurance in your name. That's how it was explained to me by FBD.

This is not correct.
You don't own the car and you cannot have an non life related insurable interest in something you don't own.

He is correct - I have a policy as described.

caster · 19-07-2019 1:05pm

spakman wrote: »

He is correct - I have a policy as described.

Is it with FBD?

pobber1 · 19-07-2019 2:19pm

spakman wrote: »

He is correct - I have a policy as described.

If you could provide some specifics that would be great, thanks.

pobber1 · 22-07-2019 12:48pm

Has anyone managed to find an insurer that provides
personal policies to cover a company car? Some posters
seem to have managed it.

I've tried FBD, Liberty and 123 with no success.

eoin42 · 22-07-2019 1:07pm

I got it with Allianz a few months back. In my name.
It did take a few phone calls and a bit of explaining.
I was with 123 before and they didnt do it so I had to change provider.
There was a bit of hassle when enacting the new insurance policy as the no claims could only be on one policy at a time. Allianz had to know that the previous policy was cancelled before they could enact the next. So I let them know in advance of the time I was switching cars and they called me, so no waiting on hold.

pobber1 · 22-07-2019 1:40pm

eoin42 wrote: »

I got it with Allianz a few months back. In my name.
It did take a few phone calls and a bit of explaining.
I was with 123 before and they didnt do it so I had to change provider.
There was a bit of hassle when enacting the new insurance policy as the no claims could only be on one policy at a time. Allianz had to know that the previous policy was cancelled before they could enact the next. So I let them know in advance of the time I was switching cars and they called me, so no waiting on hold.

Thanks. I rang Allianz and they told me they don't do company car insurance.

spakman · 22-07-2019 1:51pm

pobber1 wrote: »

If you could provide some specifics that would be great, thanks.

I went through quotedevil, the policy is underwritten with Axa.

eoin42 · 22-07-2019 2:48pm

I got it at the end of March. Maybe they may no longer do this.
Or you may have got through to someone unfamiliar with this type of ins - Might be worth your while trying again.

pobber1 · 22-07-2019 4:06pm

spakman wrote: »

I went through quotedevil, the policy is underwritten with Axa.

Rang QuoteDevil, no messing with them , they knew exactly what I was talking about; personal policy covering company car, driving of other cars, NCB stays with me, underwritten by Axa.

Thanks spakman!

EV company car insurance?

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