Best all round .22 Pistol

BOBTHESHOOTER · 14-08-2006 10:30am #1

Hi Folks

Looking to purchase a .22 pistol that is pretty versatile. The P22 and Mosquito do not interest me as they are really fun guns, I have heard too much about problems with the Sig Mosquito and cannot understand why anyone would purchase one.

In any case I am looking for an all rounder, target, fun with good reliabilty and easy to get.

Very interested on the one end he Hammerli SP20 but not available till November! What about the x-esse sport anyone with experience of one out there.

Saw a great review of some .22s may interest people!

http://www.ssaa.org.au/OFFICIALREVIEWS/22lrpistol/22targetpistol.htm#brwoningbuckmarksil

I think a .22 pistol/rifle chat thread might be useful to help people decide on the best pistol or rifle for what one wants to do.

Looking forward to hearing the response.

Sparks · 14-08-2006 10:58am

Best .22lr pistol I've heard of to date (and the one I plan on getting once I get the money together) is the Baikal IZH-35. It's often bought by other manufacturers and polished up to form their own brand name firearms (the Walther KSP200 and the Feinwerkbau AW93 are based off the IZH-35 design - well, actually the IZH-35's predecessor the IJ35). It's not going to look polished if you buy from Russia, but like the IZH-46M air pistol, it'll be cheap, competitively accurate, and probably represent the best bang for your buck, if you'll pardon the pun. There are cheaper ones - the Rugers come to mind though they'll work out more expensive if you buy new. And as with the 10/22, the Mark 2 was/is notorious for needing lots of aftermarket work to go from a decent plinker to a decent target pistol.

There are slightly more accurate pistols, though only by a few percent at the most; but all the reports are that the Baikal's a good solid beginners pistol that will let you compete right up past the Nationals and onto the International circuit if you so desire. Thing is, I don't think you'll find a "best" .22 pistol Bob. Odds are that you should get several

sidneyreilly · 14-08-2006 12:30pm

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

What about the x-esse sport anyone with experience of one out there.

Forget it! few of them in hilltop, fell apart in a matter of months, springs went, bits came off, slide release snapped etc. Other ones (colt etc) getting the same use and not a problem.

Rugger or Browning Buckmark seem very good.

Clare gunner · 14-08-2006 6:49pm

Ruger 22 in any version,[bull barrel,plain barrel,target,non target,various barrel lenghts ]is the best of the lot.With 4million plus units out there they must be doing somthing right.

Sparks · 14-08-2006 8:38pm

Clare gunner wrote:

Ruger 22 in any version,[bull barrel,plain barrel,target,non target,various barrel lenghts ]is the best of the lot.With 4million plus units out there they must be doing somthing right.

Of course there are several million Citroen 2CVs out there as well, but I wouldn't say they were the best car ever made

Seriously, every time I hear the Mark 2 described, it's described as an excellent plinker. And that's about it - I don't hear too many people saying it's more accurate than the Baikal or other target pistols. It's definitely a success at what it was designed to do - I just don't think that it was designed as a target pistol...

Besides, it's like the lemur - it's not that it was the most successful tree-climbing animal ever; it's just that it happened to be the only one on its island.

Clare gunner · 14-08-2006 11:20pm

sparks,
To use the analogy of the 2CV.He is looking for an all rounder not a Ferrari.:D
Give me a 2cv or better still a Mercedes Gwagon of 1980s vintage anyday over the Ferrari for a day to day runabout. Or for fixing with a socket and hammer set.Ditto for the Ruger.It is indeed an all rounder and that is what Bob wanted.

Sparks · 14-08-2006 11:31pm

Definitely an all-rounder CG, but all-rounder in that it's a sort-of target pistol, a plinker, a self-defence tool against vast hordes of rampaging rabid zombie squirrels, a hammer, a paperweight...
Well, you get the idea. Jack of all trades and all that. Not a bad gun, just not a target pistol. Horses for courses.

But... Bob did say "The P22 and Mosquito do not interest me as they are really fun guns" and that he wanted to shoot targets.

civdef · 14-08-2006 11:54pm

At least one version of the Ruger, the Government Model, was expressly designed for marksmanship training, and whilst not an ISSF design, will apparently turn in very tight groups indeed.

I've been 22 shopping lately, and picked a S&W 617, (would have preferred a model 18, but impossible to get hold of), all I need to do now is get a licence for same.

The S&W41 is a 22lr semi that comes highly recommended by many.

sidneyreilly · 15-08-2006 9:18am

Seen some tasty shooting with the Bull barrell ruger, very tight groups:)

BOBTHESHOOTER · 16-08-2006 11:55am

civdef wrote:

At least one version of the Ruger, the Government Model, was expressly designed for marksmanship training, and whilst not an ISSF design, will apparently turn in very tight groups indeed.

I've been 22 shopping lately, and picked a S&W 617, (would have preferred a model 18, but impossible to get hold of), all I need to do now is get a licence for same.

The S&W41 is a 22lr semi that comes highly recommended by many.

Lament! I had a S&W 617 bought and paid for, went to my local station to change my P22 .22 Semi-Auto license across and was told that it could not be done, it boils down to the inability of the pulse system to change a semi auto to a revolver, same for all pistol to revolver changes and the same is true changing a 9mm to a 40 for example, on this occasion it is not an unwillingness to make the change simply a computer system that cannot be changed to accomodate common sense.

Rather than go through the whole application process again to get teh 617 I have to now look for a semi-auto .22 which will be more simply amended on my certificate..............anyone wanting a brand new unused 617 for less than €800 PM me and I will tell you the dealer that has it.

Narrowed down to Walther/Hamerelli SP20 (not available to November) or the Benelli MP95, anyone with experience of the MP95!

Sparks · 16-08-2006 12:21pm

BOBTHESHOOTER wrote:

Narrowed down to Walther/Hamerelli SP20 (not available to November) or the Benelli MP95, anyone with experience of the MP95!

Hmmm. Not shot either myself; however there are reports of the SP20 slide cracking, see here. That might be something to watch out for. And the MP95 is reported as being quite a good little pistol, but with awful factory grips (the shooter recommended buying after-market grips which are made by a few crowds) and a trigger shoe that can't be adjusted for position. And it's supposed to be a bit finicky to dry-fire for some reason.

16-08-2006 1:32pm

In the club im with in the States, there is a S&W .22 pistol thats cheap ($300 or so), semi auto and able to put 10 shots through the bull every time at 25yrds.

They are very popular around here, not sure of the model though. Can find out if you want

shc1 · 17-08-2006 2:30am

Not usually one to put down any firearm but stay away from the P-22.
Mine was trouble from the start. It was replaced. The replacement went back more than once. Now the hammer spring is broken (again). Today my Walther is nothing more than a bag of parts. I’m done with em.
The next 22 will probably be a Ruger MK III. Models with adjustable sights come tapped and have a rail included.
A 22-45 is also one of the Ruger’s to look at.
The Browning Buckmark is a great pistol. With a Red Dot sight we shoot golf balls from 20 to 50+ yards.
Of course you need to clean the Buckmark every 1000 to 2000 rounds. (If the ammo is dirty):D

BOBTHESHOOTER · 18-08-2006 9:23pm

OK
Nearly there, anyone got experience of the Walther SSP, looks like a more up to date version of the GSP!

Sparks any experience, youve been very helpful to date.

Sparks · 19-08-2006 1:29pm

Not many people have any experience of the SSP Bob, they've been talking about it on the US board for a while - all that's out there right now, with very few exceptions, is basicly marketing hype. It's an interesting design of pistol, especially with that top-loading magazine which lets them do nice things with rake angles on the grip, but from the point of view of the ISSF world, it's unproven as yet - and Ralf Schumann is showing exactly what happens with unproven firearms at the moment. 20 years dominating rapid-fire pistol, and then when they change the rules so they move from .22 short to .22lr, he experiments with his gun and he's fallen right down the rankings, which is exceptionally odd for a guy with so many olympic golds and world championship titles.

However, if you're not into ISSF shooting, it does look like a very nice pistol. I'd just be hesitant about being Walther's beta tester, you know?

The GSP on the other hand, is one of the all-time classics.

Still though, I'm going to go for the Baikal myself. I just don't see the point in buying a pistol for four times the price when I know that the Baikal is going to be able to out-shoot me for years. But that's just me, remember.

In fact, about the best advice I've ever heard given on this topic was to go and try as many as you could and buy the one that suited you the best. Rifles tend to be a personal choice sort of thing - but Pistols are far, far, far more so.

Sparks · 21-08-2006 12:30am

A comment from a poster in Canada who'd handled the SSP:

Like Mike T., I had an opportunity to handle but not shoot the SSP this summer. To say I was 'underwhelmed' by it would be kind. It's price point is excruciatingly high. And it doesn't seem to offer much in terms of extra value for the extra money.

I personally see no potential problems with the top-loading, save perhaps for a slight chance of increased difficulty in removing the magazine should it get stuck. But that's not a likely occurance. The top loading feature gives the pistol a nice grip angle.

My main problems with the pistol were with its plastic grip (YUCK!) and its trigger (Double-YUCK!). Walther has let their 'military/police' side of the design house influence them too much in the design of both the grip and trigger. Put some wood on the grip so we can modify it to suit our hands.

And for goodness sake, stop with the trigger pull that's as long as a wet Sunday. BTW, you have to let the trigger come all the way forward to re-engage for the second shot, unlike the Pardini and MG-2 which require the trigger only to move forward to the beginning of the 2nd stage. I've had several people tell me there was no way my MG-2 triggers would lift the 1000 gram weight, and yet they do so easily. By comparison, there were several experienced shooters (ok, about half our national team) in the room when the SSP was taken out of the box, and the trigger was almost universally disliked, and most commented on how heavy it felt.

Walther quality was clearly evident in the pistol. But I can't see how that quality makes the gun worth 40% more than its competitors.

Sorry, but I'll not be purchasing a new Walther any time soon.

BOBTHESHOOTER · 21-08-2006 9:47am

Thanks

Something like the Bushmaster Plus Target version in 71/4" may be a very good compramise, as .22s go I saw a S&W 22S at the weekend looks a really nice gun, inovative mag release on the front of the pistol grip but I am very drawn by rosewood grips on the Bushmaster, the stainless fluted barrel looks well also, however it is a pity the barrel length goes from 5.5 to 71/4 with nothing in between. In the Aussie review the Bushmaster Target in 5.5 scored well so I am inclined to believe the longer barrel may be helpful.

There is a real interest in differing .22 pistols out there and hopefully this dialogue will help others make up their mind more readily.

les45 · 23-08-2006 7:00pm

Bob.

I had a Beretta 87a for a few months, accurate , nicely weighted, and no problems with failure to feed or fire. I traded it in to a Dealer in NI for a Bull M5 , sadly the only Bull I got was from the Dealer, he has disappeared and so has my Gun , the 87a is well worth a look .

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Best all round .22 Pistol

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