Can you read this word? WWI placename

R0C · 05-11-2010 12:19pm #1

The word in the picture below is a placename where soldiers in the Connaught Rangers and/or Royal Dublin Fusiliers were at some point during World War I.

It is mentioned in an old letter from my grandfather in relation to his two brothers who were in the Connaught Rangers and the Royal Dublin and Munster Fusiliers. I don't know which service they were listed in at the time the letter was written, but my grandfather mentions that one brother died in [unidentifiable placename] and that his other brother is still in that place..

Can anyone figure out what this word is? I've had many people look at it, and no-one could figure it. I've made several guesses, googling what I thought it was, but not getting any results.

So, what do you think?

MarchDub · 05-11-2010 1:06pm

Mesopotamia?

mailforkev · 05-11-2010 1:14pm

I know there's a war cemetary in Montparnasse but that would have to be some misspelling for that.

Perhaps scan a couple of lines so it's possible to identify characters from other words and compile it from there?

R0C · 05-11-2010 1:42pm

Here's a little more of the scanned document, perhaps that'll make it a little clearer. The rest is all very easily readable, it's just that one word that is the problem.

R0C · 05-11-2010 1:44pm

To me it looks like []ess[]arna, but I can't think of any places that fit the name..

R0C · 05-11-2010 1:47pm

MarchDub wrote: »

Mesopotamia?

I thought about that but the last part just doesn't seem to contain the correct letters.

While there are no other misspellings in the letter, it is very possible that a far away placename may have been written down incorrectly.

malarkus · 05-11-2010 1:58pm

R0C wrote: »

To me it looks like []ess[]arna, but I can't think of any places that fit the name..

While im unsure about the first letter, either an M or H, I think the middle is a P as it does not match h or k in rest of text.

[]essparna/[]esspama

Question: was there a date at all mentioned with the letter?

R0C · 05-11-2010 2:00pm

Date on the letter is 25th November 1918.

R0C · 05-11-2010 2:05pm

malarkus wrote: »

While im unsure about the first letter, either an M or H, I think the middle is a P as it does not match h or k in rest of text.

[]essparna/[]esspama

Question: was there a date at all mentioned with the letter?

That's exactly what I read it as also, I've searched various combinations of Messparna, Messpama, Hessparna, etc. Nothing comes up for any of them.

Morlar · 05-11-2010 2:21pm

_ essfiarnce

_ essfiarnca

H

M ?

Could always be a typo. I wanted it to be messopatamia too - but it's not. I can not think of anything that fits.

zagmund · 05-11-2010 2:21pm

If the other brother is still there after the end of hostilities then the records of either the Rangers or the Fusiliers should record where there units were at the time and one of them should be a close match.

Alternatively, if you know the name of the deceased brother you should be able to get his records and determine where he died.

z

arnhem44 · 05-11-2010 8:06pm

What was his name and do you know what year he died?The CWGC will have his details on their site and information relating to the cemetery where he's buried and also where that cemetery is near.It looks like a double L to start with,as a guess it may be some place in Belgium.

http://www.cwgc.org/

johnny_doyle · 06-11-2010 1:09am

from an earlier thread, the letter from the deceased soldier is Patrick Jennings, who had been in the Connaught Rangers and enlisted 7/11/1915.

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1481418

In the 1901 census, the family is

http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Mayo/Claremorris/James_Street/1590698/

In Patrick's record there is a letter from his brother William in 1918, mention of the younger sister Maggie and a letter from an odler sister MRs Thomas Foster(?).

In his service record, there is a feint letter dated 27/12/1915 with a Connaught Ranger badge. Mention is made "About Thomas's death, Maggie is entitled..." Very very feint and hard to read.

The Thomas that most fits is this chap but SDGW has him born in Marylebone

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=692507

johnny_doyle · 06-11-2010 1:20am

the other brother Michael has a service record on Ancestry. No 064093, Army Service Corps. Served in Egypt and Salonika.Mentions sister Maggie and has a letter with address as Mrs Foster, Claremorris.

43rd Remount Squadron mentioned.

R0C · 06-11-2010 11:20am

Thanks for filling in all that info Johnny, saved me pulling it all up again.

The Thomas Jennings is the only mystery still standing.

This almost has to be him, I've gone through all the others and this is the only Thomas that appears to match, but the birth location is wrong. Perhaps the family did live in the UK at some point, but he lists 'Mayo' as his birth location on the census.

This Thomas died at Gallipoli. He lists his parents as Mr and Mrs Thomas Jennings which fits but a lot of this stuff could easily be common to someone else.

It is also possible that there may be another couple of brothers that are not listed in the census. My Grandmother has mentioned other names in the past but has now forgotten this information.

R0C · 06-11-2010 11:44am

I'll include the pictures of the brothers again, as previously posted in another thread.

My Grandmother tells me that's Patrick [Paddy] Jennings seated and that's his brother standing, imost likely Thomas but I can't be sure it's not Michael [or another brother I don't know of]. I'm working through duplicates of the same photos with the hope that someone will have handwritten who's who on one of them.

Patrick on his own.

Michael made it back alive after WWI. He was with the 43rd Remount Squadron, and I'm told the Connaught Rangers also.

I recall being shown Connaught Rangers badges by one of the elderly family members as a very young child. I assume these are still somewhere in the family home, but my Grandmother's not willing to let me dig up too much of the past at this time.

I know that the date of birth listed on these military documents can be completely inaccurate. William (who wrote the above letter) used to laugh about them getting the birth certs and altering the birth date to suit themselves at a given time.
One uncle served with the RAF during WWII, he was (I believe) 15 but always wanted to fly planes, so he and William got his birth cert from the local priest and changed the date to make him the minimum age of entry, and it worked. He's told me to beware of this should I start doing family research one day, that it was common practice amongst he and his friends.

Victor · 06-11-2010 12:33pm

Unlikely, but the first letter (what really looks like an "M") could be a capital U in the good old Christian Brothers(?) hand writing style.

The second letter could be an "i" or "e" - see "died"

Then two "s"s.

Next letter is definitely a "p" - see "place"

Next letter is definitely an "a".

Next, I think is an "m", not an "rn".

Unlikely, but the last letters could be "ci" - not the author isn't great at dotting his "i"s.

"Uisspamci" - unlikely.

Conclusion - "Messpama" (Mesopotamia) in the good old way that even modern day, lazy and (mostly) less educated people garble words, e.g. "Hang Sammich" (Ham Sandwich).

That said, in 1916(?), during the rising, one Irish Times reporter is reputed to have not know where "West More Land Street" was, as it was always pronounced "Westm'land Street"

johnny_doyle wrote: »

In Patrick's record there is a letter from his brother William in 1918, mention of the younger sister Maggie and a letter from an odler sister MRs Thomas Foster(?).

Until the 1980s married women were invariably addressed as Mrs. HusbandsFirstName HusbandsSurname, e.g. Mrs. John Smith's name might actually be Mary.

R0C · 06-11-2010 2:40pm

johnny_doyle wrote: »

the other brother Michael has a service record on Ancestry. No 064093, Army Service Corps. Served in Egypt and Salonika.Mentions sister Maggie and has a letter with address as Mrs Foster, Claremorris.

43rd Remount Squadron mentioned.

The Foster name is correct, Patrick's sister Mary married a Thomas Foster, making her Mrs Foster.

Can you read this word? WWI placename

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