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Fiat Chrysler and Peugeot to merge

13

Comments

  • #102
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 8,059 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Regulatory pressure means a lot of money is being spent on development costs at the moment, so there is a lot of sense in co-operation and mergers.
    It's widely expected that the FCA will use the PSA platforms for small and medium cars, which should allow PSA to recover the development costs quicker.

    FCA had to pool with Tesla to reach compliance, basically means they gave Tesla hundreds of millions with nothing to return. Groupe PSA hit their targets and reportedly will do so as the combined entity.


  • #103
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    beauf wrote: »
    But didn't that fail for Fiat even with the 500. They didn't have any thing to bring to the market after that.

    I'll go back read it that link...

    The 500 still sells very well. Reckon it’s a bit of a cash cow for them.
    The other 500 versions like the L and X have been disappointing style wise though


  • #104
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Not in the US.

    https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/fiat-500-sales-figures/

    https://www.google.com/search?q=US+Sales+of+Fiat+500&oq=US+Sales+of+Fiat+500&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i22i29i30l5.4863j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

    Can't link to articles. They are all ad blocked.


  • #105
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    road_high wrote: »
    The 500 still sells very well. Reckon it’s a bit of a cash cow for them.
    The other 500 versions like the L and X have been disappointing style wise though

    The 500X is / was a fantastic car.
    I had one for a while and loved it. The problem with Fiat is they gave up on Ireland and priced themselves out of the market.

    The Tipo is another good car from Fiat and I preferred it to the likes of Focus, Hyundai I30, Kias etc.

    Again priced way too expensive for Ireland.

    I remember being at the launch of the Tipo and it was going to be the car that took the Focus crown in the mid sector range. Brilliant until I heard the price and knew they were going to to it all wrong.


  • #106
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    In fairness it not just price that causing the fall in sales. The fiat 500 sold well at the start.


  • #107
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    The 500X is / was a fantastic car.
    I had one for a while and loved it. The problem with Fiat is they gave up on Ireland and priced themselves out of the market.

    The Tipo is another good car from Fiat and I preferred it to the likes of Focus, Hyundai I30, Kias etc.

    Again priced way too expensive for Ireland.

    I remember being at the launch of the Tipo and it was going to be the car that took the Focus crown in the mid sector range. Brilliant until I heard the price and knew they were going to to it all wrong.

    Yea I read some guy from Fiat lamenting a while back that the 500x is exactly the kind of car that’s selling well in Ireland these days which is true but with no dealers or marketing no one knows about it. Price needs a few grand lobbed off it but don’t think it was that off the mark price wise


  • #108
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    I wonder will distribution of Fiat in Ireland be changed post merger ?


  • #109
    Zubeneschamali
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,686 ✭✭✭✭Zubeneschamali


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I wonder will distribution of Fiat in Ireland be changed post merger ?

    I wonder will they bother making right hand drive models anymore.


  • #110
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,552 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    I wonder will distribution of Fiat in Ireland be changed post merger ?

    Did wonder about this also - Gowan bought the formerly direct Opel Ireland in 2019 and took back Citroen (they had had it before) from January I think; so PSA not only had one distributor they had actually exited their former direct one.

    Fiat have a direct op going back decades but clearly not shifting much product; I would be surprised if that isn't also sold to Gowan.


  • #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    .............
    I remember being at the launch of the Tipo and it was going to be the car that took the Focus crown in the mid sector range. Brilliant until I heard the price and knew they were going to to it all wrong.

    How much cheaper than a Focus should it have been?


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  • #112
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    for all those "petrolheads" who's standard comment on a Fiat thread is "reliability is sh*t" - take a look at this



  • #113
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    RobAMerc wrote: »
    for all those "petrolheads" who's standard comment on a Fiat thread is "reliability is sh*t" - take a look at this


    We are 115 posts into this thread and there has been zero criticism of Fiat reliability.


  • #114
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Augeo wrote: »
    How much cheaper than a Focus should it have been?

    Im talking in relative terms rather than give an exact figure.

    As Fiat were on their knees at the time the talk was that Tipo would have been the saving model and were going to do it by being cheaper than their rivals in order to get people to buy them.

    If Im not mistaken I think they launched more expensive than the equivalent Focus model at the time.

    Fiat were trying to get the Tipo into the car hire companies and fleet companies but once they went in more expensive than the car hire companies core models it didnt work out for them.


  • #115
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Im talking in relative terms rather than give an exact figure.

    As Fiat were on their knees at the time the talk was that Tipo would have been the saving model and were going to do it by being cheaper than their rivals in order to get people to buy them.

    If Im not mistaken I think they launched more expensive than the equivalent Focus model at the time.

    Fiat were trying to get the Tipo into the car hire companies and fleet companies but once they went in more expensive than the car hire companies core models it didnt work out for them.

    I thought the Tipo was a good bit cheaper when it was launched? €16/17 k type range base spec?
    It’s built in turkey so should benefit from lower costs. I quite like it, has a nice cut to it. Think it’s sold reasonably well in Europe. It could have done a lot better here with support and needed to go head to head with Hyundai and Kia for that market


  • #116
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    L1011 wrote: »
    Did wonder about this also - Gowan bought the formerly direct Opel Ireland in 2019 and took back Citroen (they had had it before) from January I think; so PSA not only had one distributor they had actually exited their former direct one.

    Fiat have a direct op going back decades but clearly not shifting much product; I would be surprised if that isn't also sold to Gowan.

    That’s 4 very mainstream middle of the road brands potentially under one roof?
    Peugeot is obviously the strongest one by some way, Citroen has improved things a lot too. Opel and Fiat need massive work


  • #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    .............

    If Im not mistaken I think they launched more expensive than the equivalent Focus model at the time. ........

    I think the Ford start of year offers put the discounted Focus at about 20k which was more or less what a Tipo was at launch. Full RRP of the Focus was a nice few thousand more than a Tipo, ford offers were generous back then iirc
    road_high wrote: »
    I thought the Tipo was a good bit cheaper when it was launched? €16/17 k type range base spec?.........

    Maybe a tad more. Edit €16,500 :)https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102102502&postcount=263

    I posted this after having a Tipo and a Focus as rentals in a short space of time........

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102076565&postcount=227
    Augeo wrote: »
    So, after the Tipo my next rental was a Focus. The ford was oh so much more refined, less engine noise, less wind noise and to use very amateurish car language less tractor ish.

    So I had a look at the ole Ford site, new 171 focus with real deal offers and 171 upgrade packs with 1.5 TDCi 95PS engines....

    Focus Style €20,940
    Focus Zetec €21,940
    Focus Titanium €22,965
    Focus Titanium 4Dr €22,865

    This offer applies to new Focus units which have been ordered with the 171 Upgrade Pack and registered between January 1st – 31st 2017 at participating Ford Dealers only. This offer applies to trade-in vehicles aged up to 10 years which are taxed and insured at time of trade-in. Qualifying vehicles must also have a valid NCT certificate at time of trade in.

    The Tipo in diesel guise can't compete with that.




    Fair enough the 1.6 fiat is more powerful etc but who buying them will care?

    Just to add, I don't really like Ford stuff and I'd definitely consider a Tipo 1.4 t jet or even a diesel auto estate if the need came about. I'd have a fondness for Fiat.


  • #118
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Have to say I would take a Focus over it- just a better, more refined vehicle. Couple of work colleagues had the estate as co cars and they were very good motorway cruisers and well finished. Other colleagues had a Tipo and it felt a lot cheaper to sit in.


  • #119
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Sitting in the back the Tipo had this really cheap plastic black door lining you rarely see anymore!


  • #120
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Augeo wrote: »
    I think the Ford start of year offers put the discounted Focus at about 20k which was more or less what a Tipo was at launch. Full RRP of the Focus was a nice few thousand more than a Tipo, ford offers were generous back then iirc

    But they made the mistake of launching with the high spec model. I think it was 22 or 24k.
    Even though they had a base 1.4 at 17k. They did the same with the 500x. Instead of launching the cheapest model and trying to encourage people to buy them they launched the more expensive model...Stupid really





    Just to add, I don't really like Ford stuff and I'd definitely consider a Tipo 1.4 t jet or even a diesel auto estate if the need came about. I'd have a fondness for Fiat.


    Id be the same - Ive worked for Ford and Fiat - Ford in the 90s /earlys 2000s when they had less boring models - original Focus, Escorts,Original Mondeo,Puma - I even remember the probe!!!. Worked for Fiat for a good 8 years and I loved their range more than Fords.

    The 500l in a 7 seater was a great car but ugly as fook!!The top spec 500x is a great drive.
    The 500 abarth is just a fun car to drive but so is the 1.4 model.

    We had a 4 wheel drive Panda that always put a smile on face when I drove it.

    And reliability was always well up there - they really didn't give any problems.

    Its a shame to see them going this way and if what PSA have done to Opel happens to Fiat its not going to be good for them.


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  • #121
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,477 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    New 208 based Corsa seems to have been well received, selling well in Europe. The Grandland thing is awful looking, no style whatsoever


  • #122
    L1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,552 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    road_high wrote: »
    That’s 4 very mainstream middle of the road brands potentially under one roof?
    Peugeot is obviously the strongest one by some way, Citroen has improved things a lot too. Opel and Fiat need massive work

    They also distribute Honda and sell Kia*; whether you think that makes that worse or better!

    (*and double glazing and cheap kitchen appliances - its a complicated group)


  • #123
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    The website Stellantis has just gone live

    https://www.stellantis.com/en


  • #124
    Poulgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    Anytime I think of Fiat, I can't get the picture of the Multipla out of my head.

    It must have been the ugliest car ever made.


  • #125
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    Anytime I think of Fiat, I can't get the picture of the Multipla out of my head.

    It must have been the ugliest car ever made.

    I don't understand the styling.

    But people rave about from the practicality point of view.


  • #126
    TheBoyConor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,292 ✭✭✭TheBoyConor


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    If Alfa can’t compete with VW, they have no hope of competing with Audi, not to mind the next level above that.

    This new conglomerate has the potential to be the next General Motors. Too many brands with no differentiators.

    Or the new British Leylandei. Unmanageably huge with different brands all competing with eachother. Like the Austin Allegro and the Morris Marina


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  • #127
    AMKC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    road_high wrote: »
    New 208 based Corsa seems to have been well received, selling well in Europe. The Grandland thing is awful looking, no style whatsoever

    Id be the opposite. I think the new Corsa is the dullest Corsa ever made and while it is a good car it is nothing special. They should have styled it more like the current Astra which is still the best looking car in its class.
    I like like the Grandland think it is very classy and will age well but agree that it is a terrible name for a car.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • #128
    Poulgorm
    Registered Users Posts: 799 ✭✭✭Poulgorm


    I assume Opel cars are more reliable now that they are using Peugeot engines & chassis.


  • #129
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Poulgorm wrote: »
    I assume Opel cars are more reliable now that they are using Peugeot engines & chassis.

    Jesus no - If anything they've gotten worse!!!


  • #130
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Jesus no - If anything they've gotten worse!!!

    Why do you say that? Is it from personal experience or bar stool talk ;)


  • #131
    Hellrazer
    Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 10,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    Why do you say that? Is it from personal experience or bar stool talk ;)

    Personal experience - I know someone that happens to work in an Opel dealer ;)

    To be honest I havent seen any of the so called Peugeot "reliability" - Im not sure that should even be in the same sentence.

    At the minute I have 4 cars on ramps that are on the Peugeot platform that arent going any where soon all of them with stupid problems that and I never thought Id say this didnt occur when they used Opel running gear.

    The only decent models seem to be their petrol models and the eCORSA is a really decent BEV.

    All of the above cars are diesels using peugeot diesels and not opel ones.


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  • #132
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Personal experience - I know someone that happens to work in an Opel dealer ;)

    To be honest I havent seen any of the so called Peugeot "reliability" - Im not sure that should even be in the same sentence.

    At the minute I have 4 cars on ramps that are on the Peugeot platform that arent going any where soon all of them with stupid problems that and I never thought Id say this didnt occur when they used Opel running gear.

    The only decent models seem to be their petrol models and the eCORSA is a really decent BEV.

    All of the above cars are diesels using peugeot diesels and not opel ones.

    Yeh, I know of a guy who's mother is a mechanic for Mercedes... She says they have at least 15 cars in for repairs...

    Mercedes must be ****ed!


  • #133
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Hellrazer wrote: »
    Personal experience - I know someone that happens to work in an Opel dealer ;)

    As do I and I can only echo most of what you've said, although they do say the PSA models are better but still rubbish.


  • #134
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    So Stellantis are going to give all there brands a chance to success (see links below), not sure how that would work! That's like something a parent would tell all there children, but still have their favorites!!




    https://www.motor1.com/news/467407/stellantis-brands-chance-success-chrysler/

    https://uk.motor1.com/news/467320/lancia-to-become-premium-brand/

    https://www.motor1.com/news/466927/2021-lancia-ypsilon-spy-photos/


  • #135
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,363 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I don't really see Opel / Vauxhall surviving long term in this scenario.

    Stellantis will have to define its brands, by market segment, by territory etc.

    In that regard, I think theres only room for two out of Citroën, DS, Peugeot, Opel/Vauxhall. DS is obvious to disappear, O/V cars already destined to be rebadged Pugs, so why bother.

    I don't think Dodge and Lancia will survive either.

    Maybe even Jeep will blend in with RAM and passenger SUVs will take on the latter brand, but thats less likely.


  • #136
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I don't really see Opel / Vauxhall surviving long term in this scenario.

    Stellantis will have to define its brands, by market segment, by territory etc.

    In that regard, I think theres only room for two out of Citroën, DS, Peugeot, Opel/Vauxhall. DS is obvious to disappear, O/V cars already destined to be rebadged Pugs, so why bother.

    I don't think Dodge and Lancia will survive either.

    Maybe even Jeep will blend in with RAM and passenger SUVs will take on the latter brand, but thats less likely.

    Jeep is one of the most successful brands on the planet right now... Why would they dismantle it? Alsobram is achieving its greatest sales since the brand was developed... Again, why damage that?


  • #137
    GeneHunt
    Registered Users Posts: 841 ✭✭✭GeneHunt


    Larbre34 wrote: »
    I don't really see Opel / Vauxhall surviving long term in this scenario.

    Stellantis will have to define its brands, by market segment, by territory etc.

    In that regard, I think theres only room for two out of Citroën, DS, Peugeot, Opel/Vauxhall. DS is obvious to disappear, O/V cars already destined to be rebadged Pugs, so why bother.

    I don't think Dodge and Lancia will survive either.

    Maybe even Jeep will blend in with RAM and passenger SUVs will take on the latter brand, but thats less likely.

    They just did define their brands into different segments. below is my take on their whole line up now,

    Luxury
    MASERATI
    Premium
    ALFA ROMEO
    DS Automobiles
    LANCIA
    Upper Mainstream
    PEUGEOT
    OPEL
    VAUXHALL
    Mainstream
    ABARTH
    CHRYSLER
    CITROEN
    DODGE
    FIAT
    FIAT Professional
    JEEP
    RAM
    MOPAR


    https://uk.motor1.com/news/467320/lancia-to-become-premium-brand/


  • #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    They just did define their brands into different segments. below is my take on their whole line up now, .......

    Where's Alfa?


  • #139
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Augeo wrote: »
    Where's Alfa?

    It’s in the list. Second one :D


  • #140
    ongarite
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,279 ✭✭✭ongarite


    I see people think Lancia as a brand will disappear.
    Maybe this is based on the perception here as they pulled out of the UK, Irish market in the 90s.
    They sell pretty well in the EU market.


  • #141
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    What exactly are Lancia selling, I assume the Ypsilon is still hanging in there, but that’s out 10 years now. All the rebadged Chrysler’s are finished now aren’t they? Are they still doing the Delta?


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  • #142
    NSAman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,441 ✭✭✭NSAman


    Bluefoam wrote: »
    Jeep is one of the most successful brands on the planet right now... Why would they dismantle it? Alsobram is achieving its greatest sales since the brand was developed... Again, why damage that?

    Absolutely. Jeep is a massive brand and seller in the US.

    Ram is kicking Ford F-150 with the launch of the new Ram (which I have) and is the leader in design and new safety in the US.

    Don’t forget, some people are only looking at this from a European point of view. The previous list is very much Eurocentric.


  • #143
    RobAMerc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,863 ✭✭✭RobAMerc


    Abarth is a mainstream brand ?


  • #144
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    It’s in the list. Second one :D

    Oops, I didn't look under premium for it.


  • #145
    loyatemu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,108 ✭✭✭✭loyatemu


    is Lancia a premium brand? The cars are pretty run of the mill in the markets where they're still sold, I'd say it must be a candidate for the chop.


  • #146
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    loyatemu wrote: »
    is Lancia a premium brand? The cars are pretty run of the mill in the markets where they're still sold, I'd say it must be a candidate for the chop.

    Could be a candidate for some more badge engineering too. I think the Italians are very patriotic in their car buying, so might help sell in Italy. Not sure how the rebadged Chrysler’s sold in Italy but it would be a good yardstick.


  • #147
    Larbre34
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,363 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    I think we can forget the sacred cows of Italian or American heritage brands. Stellantis is a Dutch corporation looking to make money for its global shareholders.

    It will keep and invest in the brands that resonate and will sell globally. To my mind, Lancia is dead outside Italy. As dead as Saab or Pontiac. Its segments are absolutely covered by Alfa and Maserati. Fiat will be the volume maker, Abarth could breath on all three.

    DS has no right to exist as a stand alone brand. They are badge engineered Peugeots. Peugeot and Citroën have plenty of heritage building niche and luxury cars to do that again if they want. DS could be a spec, like Vignale etc.

    Also Dodge and Chrysler don't need to both exist. Chrysler make three models, two of which are essentially the same car and one of which is a 25 year old E-class with some chrome. In other words, utter shyte boxes.


  • #148
    AMKC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,304 ✭✭✭✭AMKC
    Ms


    GeneHunt wrote: »
    They just did define their brands into different segments. below is my take on their whole line up now,

    Luxury
    MASERATI
    Premium
    ALFA ROMEO
    DS Automobiles
    LANCIA
    Upper Mainstream
    PEUGEOT
    OPEL
    VAUXHALL
    Mainstream
    ABARTH
    CHRYSLER
    CITROEN
    DODGE
    FIAT
    FIAT Professional
    JEEP
    RAM
    MOPAR


    https://uk.motor1.com/news/467320/lancia-to-become-premium-brand/

    I disagree with Jeep been mainstream. Maybe in America but here in Europe they are priced as a Premium brand and should be in that bracket.

    Also I agree that I would not class Lancia as Premium. Maybe they could make Lancia there sports brand.

    Live long and Prosper

    Peace and long life.



  • #149
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    What exactly are Lancia selling, I assume the Ypsilon is still hanging in there, but that’s out 10 years now. All the rebadged Chrysler’s are finished now aren’t they? Are they still doing the Delta?

    They sell the Ypsilon, and it's only sold in Italy. It sells more of these than all Alfas put together in the last few years......


  • #150
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Wouldn’t it be fun if they made Fiat a proper cheap brand like Dacia? Might be at odds with the 500e though.

    I’d love if they did an Uno EV too.


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  • #151
    Bluefoam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭Bluefoam


    colm_mcm wrote: »
    Wouldn’t it be fun if they made Fiat a proper cheap brand like Dacia? Might be at odds with the 500e though.

    I’d love if they did an Uno EV too.

    No... Fiat has style and flair and driving dynamics... Dacia is just cheap.

    Fiats should not be like Dacia, I just threw up in my mouth.


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