Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

beauf · 02-02-2021 12:03am

There's a few riding schools that use it on a regular basis.

MojoMaker · 02-02-2021 8:53am

Have to say I liked that Virtual Room concept.

Easy to read, easy to navigate, felt like you were participating in a project rather than just reading something.

Light on detail of course, but that's where the heavy PDFs could come in I guess.

I was googling for a lead on how they put it together - the VirtualEventSpace software, but I drew a blank. It's hardly proprietary is it? Would definitely like to play with it a bit.

magicbastarder · 02-02-2021 9:41am

now try reading it on a phone. it's clunky; you expect to be able to tap on the virtual display boards, but that doesn't work, you need to tap on the small green button above them.
and some of the information sheets load in a manner where you can't pinch and zoom, so you can't actually read them, while others can. and there seem to be two different ways the documents load (i suspect different file formats?)

it's a $50 solution to a $5 problem.

MojoMaker · 02-02-2021 10:30am

Designed for PCs for sure, and on a pc it's a very good experience. I would have had some appropriate sound throughout perhaps.

I like the concept and see lots of uses for this kind of information display - albeit more readily B2B. Anybody have any insight into how it's done?

buffalo · 02-02-2021 12:47pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

now try reading it on a phone. it's clunky; you expect to be able to tap on the virtual display boards, but that doesn't work, you need to tap on the small green button above them.
and some of the information sheets load in a manner where you can't pinch and zoom, so you can't actually read them, while others can. and there seem to be two different ways the documents load (i suspect different file formats?)

it's a $50 solution to a $5 problem.

Only PDF that I found is the original study at http://assets.gov.ie/118538/2d426964-2654-4d66-9c93-7c2177dd150b.pdf

AndrewJRenko · 07-02-2021 6:12pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

Have to say I liked that Virtual Room concept.

Easy to read, easy to navigate, felt like you were participating in a project rather than just reading something.

Light on detail of course, but that's where the heavy PDFs could come in I guess.

I was googling for a lead on how they put it together - the VirtualEventSpace software, but I drew a blank. It's hardly proprietary is it? Would definitely like to play with it a bit.

In this day and age, producing something that doesn't really work on mobile phones is just ridiculous. It is also not designed to work for people with disabilities, despite the legal obligations on public bodies to do just this - all style and no substance. At very least, they should have all the information available in an easily accessible format - ideally HTML.

MojoMaker · 07-02-2021 9:29pm

You'd wonder was that a conscious decision or just a major oversight?

Still haven't' tracked down the software/capability, it may have been a lack of experience with the platform or it might have been by direction. How many do they really want to look at the info etc....

Mercian Pro · 08-02-2021 11:49am

Virtual consultation rooms have been used on quite a few public infrastructure schemes over the past year or so including BusConnect. From Googling it, it seems many of the big Engineering firms such as Arup, RPS, Jacobs and Aecom are offering it to clients as an alternative to real public engagement which is obviously problematic at present. I have found it to be okay on the PC but miss being able to question the design engineers about specific proposals or chat with other objectors/supporters.

buffalo · 08-02-2021 12:21pm

I found a very plain press release version with the original study PDF at https://www.gov.ie/en/consultation/c4f6f-phoenix-park-transport-and-mobility-options-study/

MojoMaker · 08-02-2021 12:24pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I have found it to be okay on the PC but miss being able to question the design engineers about specific proposals or chat with other objectors/supporters.

Does that seem like a coincidence?

beauf · 08-02-2021 12:48pm

Haven't seen the Virtual consultation rooms before.

But on the public consultation webinars (online) I have been on previously, while questions were allowed. It seemed very much that it was done to tick the box on public consolation. As their mind seemed made up before hand, and what was presented, and said very much confirmed that. As their preferred proposal was far better prepared than the others, at least in the pro's. The cons being skimmed or ignored, for that proposal but not for the others.

Mercian Pro · 12-02-2021 11:23pm

For anyone interested, Neasa Hourigan is hosting a Zoom meeting on Monday night about the Mobility and Transport Study. You can sign on here https://neasahourigan.us8.list-manage.com/track/click?u=09ddf36a96a945c3a46ae9161&id=6b67e10ddb&e=082c757da3

12-02-2021 11:43pm

MojoMaker wrote: »

Does that seem like a coincidence?

:rolleyes:

magicbastarder · 26-02-2021 2:17pm

the OPW are asking people, where possible, not to drive to the phoenix park this weekend.

https://twitter.com/phoenixparkopw/status/1365240246594662400

Seth Brundle · 26-02-2021 2:31pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

the OPW are asking people, where possible, not to drive to the phoenix park this weekend.

https://twitter.com/phoenixparkopw/status/1365240246594662400

I can see that call going ignored :rolleyes:

07Lapierre · 26-02-2021 2:35pm

They should just announce that all car parks are closed to all cars, except cars displaying a disability sticker.

magicbastarder · 26-02-2021 2:36pm

they should announce that gardai will be noting car reg plates, and whether the park is within 5km of the registered address...

beauf · 26-02-2021 2:38pm

They should put gates on all entrances...oh wait...

VonLuck · 27-02-2021 9:52am

beauf wrote: »

They should put gates on all entrances...oh wait...

Just on that, what's happening with the gates which are being restored? Seems to be taking forever. Are they waiting for post-Covid to reinstate them?

bazermc · 27-02-2021 11:10am

Weren’t those metal gates installed for the popes visit a few years back.

beauf · 27-02-2021 11:19am

They seem to spend an awful long time and a lot of money on these gates. But never widening them or putting traffic controls on them. We know the gates are not fit for purpose. But we are going to put them back exactly the same every time.

VonLuck · 27-02-2021 12:14pm

I think the problem is bigger than just widening the gates. The roadways leading into them don't really allow much of a readjustment. For example the Castleknock gate is at an acute angle to a bend on the main road and I can't even begin to describe the problems at Ashtown gate.

beauf · 27-02-2021 12:48pm

A come on, most of them are single lane only.

No one wants to improve the throughput of the gates anyway. Even if it's just to a car park just inside the gates to reduce the amount of driving through the park that people have to do.

Instead we have the worst of everything. Poor parking, poor access to parking. No traffic volume restrictions. No commuting restrictions. It's basically a poorly planned mess.

But it's historical so let's not fix a 100yr old design for horses to make it better. There's no point suggesting changes either. No one wants alter as much as one brick in a wall.

mvt · 27-02-2021 1:48pm

Are the gates not protected structures?

Wasn't a mess this morning anyway, everyone seemed in good form.

Haven't been passed by so many cyclists in a long time

Mercian Pro · 27-02-2021 7:43pm

mvt wrote: »

Are the gates not protected structures?

Yes, the gates, gate piers and gate lodges are all (rightly) protected.

beauf · 27-02-2021 7:59pm

Used to be cattle grids, with no gates.

Mercian Pro · 27-02-2021 10:07pm

beauf wrote: »

Used to be cattle grids, with no gates.

Didn’t think you were that old - most of them date from the 1830s.

beauf · 28-02-2021 2:20am

Mercian Pro wrote: »

Didn’t think you were that old - most of them date from the 1830s.

They grazed cattle in the park not sure when they stopped. But they had cattle grids when they did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiViYr8dIcU&list=RDiiViYr8dIcU&start_radio=1&rv=iiViYr8dIcU&ab_channel=BrianLarsen

cletus · 28-02-2021 9:07am

beauf wrote: »

They grazed cattle in the park not sure when they stopped. But they had cattle grids when they did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiViYr8dIcU&list=RDiiViYr8dIcU&start_radio=1&rv=iiViYr8dIcU&ab_channel=BrianLarsen

I just watched that video. What was the sign that the kids were trying to knock, that the father subsequently helped them with? Very odd

KevRossi · 28-02-2021 9:47am

Looks like "_________ stop on the grass" ??

MayoSalmon · 01-03-2021 2:55pm

VonLuck wrote: »

I think the problem is bigger than just widening the gates. The roadways leading into them don't really allow much of a readjustment. For example the Castleknock gate is at an acute angle to a bend on the main road and I can't even begin to describe the problems at Ashtown gate.

I wonder what exactly needs to happen for somebody to change the design/format of this gate

BabysCoffee · 01-03-2021 3:00pm

beauf wrote: »

They grazed cattle in the park not sure when they stopped. But they had cattle grids when they did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iiViYr8dIcU&list=RDiiViYr8dIcU&start_radio=1&rv=iiViYr8dIcU&ab_channel=BrianLarsen

Very bizarre ending

breezy1985 · 01-03-2021 3:51pm

ozzy jr wrote: »

Might be worthy of a separate thread, but how great it is at the moment to cycle around the park with very little traffic and no parking on the main road.

On Saturday it was packed with people of all ages on bikes. The cycle paths were still full of walkers but they weren't needed as the roads were free.

Wouldn't it be great if they closed the park to traffic at weekends. Unlikely I know with the zoo being there, but if they just opened Chesterfield avenue and left the rest car free, it would be a great start.

The Mall in London do it on Sundays. And people love it too judging by the foot/cycle traffic

VonLuck · 01-03-2021 10:47pm

MayoSalmon wrote: »

I wonder what exactly needs to happen for somebody to change the design/format of this gate

It's truly bizarre. No one has a clue who has the right of way and everyone is basically winging it, hoping that they don't cause an accident.

buffalo · 09-03-2021 3:36pm

Reminder that the closing date for submissions on the mobility plan is this Friday.

Online: https://phoenixpark.virtualeventspace.io/
Email: parkmobilityreport@opw.ie
Post: FREEPOST – FDN7 7468,
Observations on Phoenix Park Transport and Mobility Study,
Superintendent’s Office,
Whitefields,
Phoenix Park,
Dublin D08 KDC4

There's some good points (for me anyway) on the GP councillor Michael Pidgeon's page, that can be appropriated as you see fit: http://pidgeon.ie/phoenix-park-mobility-plan/

buffalo · 12-03-2021 9:05am

Last call today! Do you want an end to through traffic? Do you want all the new cycle lanes to be wide enough so you can overtake families safely on your road bike? Dublin Bike stands in the Park? Zebra crossing instead of traffic lights on Chesterfield Avenue?

These are all things I mentioned in my feedback. You don't ask, you don't get.

buffalo wrote: »

Reminder that the closing date for submissions on the mobility plan is this Friday.

Online: https://phoenixpark.virtualeventspace.io/
Email: parkmobilityreport@opw.ie
Post: FREEPOST – FDN7 7468,
Observations on Phoenix Park Transport and Mobility Study,
Superintendent’s Office,
Whitefields,
Phoenix Park,
Dublin D08 KDC4

There's some good points (for me anyway) on the GP councillor Michael Pidgeon's page, that can be appropriated as you see fit: http://pidgeon.ie/phoenix-park-mobility-plan/

Amirani · 12-03-2021 5:36pm

Sent along feedback on that today, and encouraged some family members to do similar. Hopefully we get some good outcomes.

Mercian Pro · 12-03-2021 6:31pm

I've been picking up a coffee and biscuit in the Twirly Gate in Chapelizod when on my Park circuits and noticed a number of posters around urging locals to oppose the traffic changes in the Park. They are concerned about the impact on the village of the rat-runners being forced out of the Park onto the fairly narrow local roads. No doubt they have been lobbying their TDs and Councillors and this is probably replicated in other villages/centres around the perimeter as well.

On a totally separate matter, I had a close call this morning coming down past the Magazine Fort towards the Islandbridge Gate. There is a tightish downhill blind turn and I had taken it fairly tight which was just as well as there was a car coming towards me on the wrong side of the road. The driver had pulled out to pass a cyclist who was struggling up the hill into a headwind. Luckily for me, there was a narrow gap between the ditch and the car that I managed to squeeze through. On the next circuit I checked the road markings and, while there is a solid white line on the lower part of the hill, it mysteriously vanishes half way up. Irrespective of the road marking, the driver should have waited untill he was past the blind bend before even considering overtaking.

magicbastarder · 15-03-2021 8:26pm

FWIW, this is FG's submission.

beauf · 15-03-2021 8:32pm

Mercian Pro wrote: »

I've been picking up a coffee and biscuit in the Twirly Gate in Chapelizod when on my Park circuits and noticed a number of posters around urging locals to oppose the traffic changes in the Park. They are concerned about the impact on the village of the rat-runners being forced out of the Park onto the fairly narrow local roads. No doubt they have been lobbying their TDs and Councillors and this is probably replicated in other villages/centres around the perimeter as well.

On a totally separate matter, I had a close call this morning coming down past the Magazine Fort towards the Islandbridge Gate. There is a tightish downhill blind turn and I had taken it fairly tight which was just as well as there was a car coming towards me on the wrong side of the road. The driver had pulled out to pass a cyclist who was struggling up the hill into a headwind. Luckily for me, there was a narrow gap between the ditch and the car that I managed to squeeze through. On the next circuit I checked the road markings and, while there is a solid white line on the lower part of the hill, it mysteriously vanishes half way up. Irrespective of the road marking, the driver should have waited untill he was past the blind bend before even considering overtaking.

I guess we should all approach blind bends expecting the unexpected.

buffalo · 15-03-2021 8:47pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

FWIW, this is FG's submission.

The Castleknock gates element of that is very reminiscent of Strand Road objections.

"Hey, you're reducing motor traffic over there, that could cause extra traffic over here" is met with "don't reduce any traffic" rather than "let's reduce traffic here too!"

magicbastarder · 15-03-2021 10:12pm

not included - what FG are going to actually tell patrick o'donovan to do.

beauf · 15-03-2021 10:34pm

buffalo wrote: »

The Castleknock gates element of that is very reminiscent of Strand Road objections.

"Hey, you're reducing motor traffic over there, that could cause extra traffic over here" is met with "don't reduce any traffic" rather than "let's reduce traffic here too!"

Stand road plan is reducing traffic in the village, to facilitate cycling to school amongst other things. Whereas in this plan they are increasing traffic in at least two villages and there no extra provision for cycling in either of these villages or the surrounding roads, due getting to school etc.

So how are these similar.... and how will it decrease traffic or improve cycling facilities around these villages? Cycling to school etc. Considering they've just built a very large Supermarket in the middle of the village.

beauf · 15-03-2021 10:37pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

not included - what FG are going to actually tell patrick o'donovan to do.

They'll do wait to see what the popular vote is and go with the flow. That will be the loudest of their constituents, not necessarily the outcome of this public consultation.

buffalo · 15-03-2021 11:04pm

beauf wrote: »

Stand road plan is reducing traffic in the village, to facilitate cycling to school amongst other things. Whereas in this plan they are increasing traffic in at least two villages and there no extra provision for cycling in either of these villages or the surrounding roads, due getting to school etc.

So how are these similar.... and how will it decrease traffic or improve cycling facilities around these villages? Cycling to school etc. Considering they've just built a very large Supermarket in the middle of the village.

You've entirely missed the point of my post.

Strand Road is not taking place in a village, the objectors claim that it will lead to an increase in traffic in residential areas where there are children cycling to school, etc. Sound familiar?

There is no provision in either plan to improve the surrounding areas, but rather than seize the opportunity to piggy back on the plans and do something constructive, it's easier to object to any changes and keep the status quo. No worse, but no better.

15-03-2021 11:06pm

beauf wrote: »

Stand road plan is reducing traffic in the village, to facilitate cycling to school amongst other things. Whereas in this plan they are increasing traffic in at least two villages and there no extra provision for cycling in either of these villages or the surrounding roads, due getting to school etc.

So how are these similar.... and how will it decrease traffic or improve cycling facilities around these villages? Cycling to school etc. Considering they've just built a very large Supermarket in the middle of the village.

Hmm, so you're advocating we remove additional lanes on other roads to implement a network of cycle lanes all over the city to allow school kids to cycle to school safely, regardless of where they live or go to school.

Where do I sign!?!?

beauf · 15-03-2021 11:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmm, so you're advocating we remove additional lanes on other roads to implement a network of cycle lanes all over the city to allow school kids to cycle to school safely, regardless of where they live or go to school.
Where do I sign!?!?

Hmm so you want to been cars from within the M50 so we can turn the Quays into a BMX park. Let us know when you start that petition so I can get the popcorn on.

beauf · 15-03-2021 11:32pm

buffalo wrote: »

You've entirely missed the point of my post.

Strand Road is not taking place in a village, the objectors claim that it will lead to an increase in traffic in residential areas where there are children cycling to school, etc. Sound familiar?

There is no provision in either plan to improve the surrounding areas, but rather than seize the opportunity to piggy back on the plans and do something constructive, it's easier to object to any changes and keep the status quo. No worse, but no better.

Not really you've made comparison between two completely different areas/issues where the only common issue is traffic. It's not even the same kind of traffic, not even remotely similar.

I was being sarcastic since there almost non existent interest and even less infrastructure in kids cycling to school across D15.

But the point remains how do you propose this will decrease traffic out side the park. Or is that irrelevant.

15-03-2021 11:41pm

beauf wrote: »

Hmm so you want to been cars from within the M50 so we can turn the Quays into a BMX park. Let us know when you start that petition so I can get the popcorn on.

Who said anything about banning cars or BMX parks? I'm talking about young kids being able to cycle safely to school.

I guess it comes down to what choices you want to make for vulnerable road users

Which choice below makes the most sense to you? Left or right

beauf · 15-03-2021 11:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who said anything about banning cars or BMX parks? I'm talking about young kids being able to cycle safely to school.

I guess it comes down to what choices you want to make for vulnerable road users
...

So how does this plan improve cycling infrastructure for young kids getting to school... Which schools...

Bicycles, Phoenix Park and traffic

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