Cruise control will kill you!

beauf · 22-02-2021 11:51am

Seems like people were using CC while almost tail gating in traffic. I can see why it would be useless in that scenario. ACC makes sense in the US where people spend hours crawling in traffic. Not so much for rush hour fast moving traffic and tail gating.

I accept the point about people cutting in.

FileNotFound · 22-02-2021 11:52am

beauf wrote: »

I'm not sure the relevance. ABS out performs most drivers in the vast majority of situations. It hasn't made anyone a worse driver as its doing something most people can't do. It can't replace a skill drivers never had.

Ignoring ABS Braking in general is much better in modern cars. Better tyres, brakes, etc. Someone might be a late braker and drive on the brakes as they say. But if you are triggering abs regularly that's anti skid. Without it you'd be skidding and sliding that's just dangerous driving.

My point was relevant to going backwards to a car without, say if you have abs but then drive a car without (prob never going to happen these days) people become reliant on tech they are used to.

The poorer driving was more parking sensor related to be fair. But I would say that in a few years when we become more reliant on systems to correct for us it will stand for many more areas.

Just my personal experience and a guess at whats to come.

knucklehead6 · 22-02-2021 11:57am

Stallingrad wrote: »

Excuse the click bait title, but after owning a car with Adaptive Cruise Control, and driving a car with normal cruise control again, normal cruise seems like archaic madness. Unless you have miles of traffic free roads you have to fiddle with it endlessly, you can never relax, it will literally drive you full tilt into something in front of you, seems like an incredibly dumb device to have on car.

ACC makes CC what it was always meant to be.

Excuse the clickbait title but after owning a airplane with jet engines, going to an airplane with a piston propeller engine seems like archaic madness...

grogi · 22-02-2021 11:59am

We really should differentiate between systems that are supposed to trigger in dangerous situation and systems on all the time.

ABS is the former one. You should never need to use it. For all intents and purposes, it doesn't exist. Until the one day comes when it kicks in allows you to save the ass (you still need to know what to do though

)

ACC is active all the time. You cannot really get any advantage of it if you don't use it continuosly.

This is where I find the danger: people are only humans and will lose focus when they don't need to. The car drives on its own, right? ACC takes care of the distance, lane assist keeps the car between the lanes. It is very easy to rely on the technology a bit too much. We shouldn't at this stage yet, those systems are not designed with autonomy in mind. Driver should still be actively monitoring the situation and react immediately. But is simply won't be possible if your driver's skills aren't 'warmed up', your mind isn't in the focus mode anymore after an hour of not doing anything.

Until the level 4 autonomy comes, those continuously on systems are horrible IMHO and my our roads less safe.

The systems you don't see: ABS, ESP, automatic braking, even airbags - all those are great. But they don't let the driver to stop paying attention, as they should not work at all. ACC and Lane assist: not so much.

km991148 · 22-02-2021 12:00pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

My point was relevant to going backwards to a car without, say if you have abs but then drive a car without (prob never going to happen these days) people become reliant on tech they are used to.

The poorer driving was more parking sensor related to be fair. But I would say that in a few years when we become more reliant on systems to correct for us it will stand for many more areas.

Just my personal experience and a guess at whats to come.

I think ABS does make a point. It's not a direct correlation as in this case there is a much, much greater 'bang for your buck', but as I say, back in the day, braking techniques and the dangers of aquaplaning and what happens when it goes wrong even you jam on the anchors was all drummed in to me.

These days it's less if a danger, so fewer skills are taught. Abs can still occasionally go wrong or road conditions can go against it and people don't know how to drive (but granted it's really hard to find the examples because the advantages of ABS far outweigh these very occasionally negatives).

Casati · 22-02-2021 12:07pm

Agree completely with the OP, its very hard driving a car with standard cruise when you are used to ACC. Ive used it a lot up not only on M8/ M7 but also on many national roads where its great. It definitely allows me to relax - that doesn't mean you drift off to sleep and not stay attentive.

The only folks it probably doesn't work well for are tailgaters - (which I guess is why BMW don't bother making it standard on many cars!) as the system won't allow you to tailgate the car in front as it always leaves a safe distance. Drivers saying it leaves you too far from the car in front need to think about how they typically drive.

Reading that its standard in all new cars next year - brilliant news. Its actually standard on a lot of new cars this year - even a base spec Transporter van has it now

dmc17 · 22-02-2021 12:11pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

No matter what driver assist you have active it is fully expected you pay full attention to the road while driving a 1 tonne + metal ram.

Kind of a ludicrous comment - you are complaining that you have to pay attention while driving.

I think maybe the issue is with your concept, not the tech.

loyatemu · 22-02-2021 12:18pm

I use CC all the time on the motorway, once you're away from Dublin the motorways are pretty quiet and fine for CC. Of course you still need to pay attention, but it allows you to take your foot off the gas and keeps you at a much more consistent speed, set it to 120 and forget about it. You really notice the cars that aren't using CC - they overtake you going downhill, then as soon as there's a slight uphill, you're back on their bumper.

L1011 · 22-02-2021 12:32pm

loyatemu wrote: »

I use CC all the time on the motorway, once you're away from Dublin the motorways are pretty quiet and fine for CC. Of course you still need to pay attention, but it allows you to take your foot off the gas and keeps you at a much more consistent speed, set it to 120 and forget about it. You really notice the cars that aren't using CC - they overtake you going downhill, then as soon as there's a slight uphill, you're back on their bumper.

Had a driver in a relatively recent car that I would presume had CC/ACC, but obviously not in use pass me maybe six times between Dublin and Cashel on Friday (essential worker/trip) and then slow up significantly after a while resulting in me passing them again.

They were probably going through a 15km/h range if not more; I set the ACC at Naas and other than braking for the toll didn't touch it otherwise

AMKC · 22-02-2021 12:41pm

I think this bit below is very interesting,

Swedish change to driving on the right Edit
In Sweden, following the change from driving on the left to driving on the right in 1967 there was a drop in crashes and fatalities, which was linked to the increased apparent risk. The number of motor insurance claims went down by 40%, returning to normal over the next six weeks.[26][27] Fatality levels took two years to return to normal.[28][n

So all we need to do is change the side of the road that you drive on every two years and it will reduce fatalitys by 40 per cent.

redcup342 · 22-02-2021 12:47pm

I only use Adaptive Cruise Control now on Motorways, on National roads its gotten me a speeding ticket twice in the past 6 months :pac:

Casati · 22-02-2021 12:51pm

AMKC wrote: »

I think this bit below is very interesting,

Swedish change to driving on the right Edit
In Sweden, following the change from driving on the left to driving on the right in 1967 there was a drop in crashes and fatalities, which was linked to the increased apparent risk. The number of motor insurance claims went down by 40%, returning to normal over the next six weeks.[26][27] Fatality levels took two years to return to normal.[28][n

So all we need to do is change the side of the road that you drive on every two years and it will reduce fatalitys by 40 per cent.

Prior to the change they were driving LHD drive cars on the wrong side so its no surprise

beauf · 22-02-2021 1:22pm

FileNotFound wrote: »

My point was relevant to going backwards to a car without, say if you have abs but then drive a car without (prob never going to happen these days) people become reliant on tech they are used to.

The poorer driving was more parking sensor related to be fair. But I would say that in a few years when we become more reliant on systems to correct for us it will stand for many more areas.

Just my personal experience and a guess at whats to come.

I have one car with abs and one without. I notice no difference. It's very rare I trigger abs in a car. If someone is constantly triggering abs they are a very dangerous driver.

beauf · 22-02-2021 1:30pm

Stallingrad wrote: »

The fundamental difference is in the technology, one maintains a gap, one doesn't. If you used CC between Dublin and Cork, you would be engaging with it countless times, with an automatic car could do that drive with ACC without touching the throttle or brake. It is a game changer in that regard.

When I use CC I hardly touch it. I would only need to touch it I was constantly closing on cars. If a person is constantly getting close to cars then that person is not matching speeds or its heavy traffic. In this case cc is not intended for that.

ACC isn't going to help if you are constantly faster than the traffic. It will only help you maintain distance when at matched speeds, especially in heavy traffic.

There's no doubt the ACC is the future. But theres a bit of bad driver habits at play here. So this is an interesting discussion. All interesting and valid viewpoints.

DriveSkill · 22-02-2021 1:34pm

redcup342 wrote: »

I only use Adaptive Cruise Control now on Motorways, on National roads its gotten me a speeding ticket twice in the past 6 months :pac:

I think it should be the exact opposite! ACC or CC should be the perfect solution to avoid speeding tickets

Personally I tend to use CC or ACC all the time, have one car with each, most cars allow you to "notch-up" or "notch-down" by 10km/hr via the controls on the steering wheel. So yes, you need to be attentive to the change of speed limits but still makes for a much more relaxing drive - see a speed limit reduction sign, drop back 10/20 km as required - with ACC it makes it much better as if the guy in front decides to slow down more so will you. Equally if he decides to ignore the speed limit well off with him!

Stallingrad · 22-02-2021 1:35pm

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Exactly, you're sitting in a steel tube at 100km per hour, you shouldn't be relaxed.

Don't agree with this at all, relaxed does not mean you are not alert, it means you are not anxious or tense. Stress leads to fatigue and bad decisions.

Does an anxious pilot fly better than a relaxed one? Of course not.

frozenfrozen · 22-02-2021 2:18pm

I use non adaptive cruise all the time. I just leave it set and if I gain on someone on the motorway I overtake them. It's only annoying when I haven't adjusted the speed for an entire motorway journey but I've overtaken and been overtaken by the same non-cruise cars multiple times.

Especially the ones who sit beside you and decide to stop accelerating and do a 50 second overtake, then pull in front of you and force you to brake. If anyone knows what's going on in their heads please let me know

Bass Reeves · 22-02-2021 4:54pm

There an old saying it's a bad tradesman that blames his tools. CC it ACC are just tools you use when driving. I have CC on a 2010 RAV. It brilliant when you understand it advantages and limits.

It not just for Motorway use. And deceent single carrigway you can use it as well. Just set your speed and drive away. I use it a lot when towing. If there is weight on the trailer it's a matter of driving in 4th or 5th gear at whatever is the apt speed. I can use the +/- to adjust sorted. This is all you do when driving it on a motorway. Set it between 110 & 120 and 90% of traffic is flying past you

i57dwun4yb1pt8 · 22-02-2021 5:05pm

frozenfrozen wrote: »

I use non adaptive cruise all the time. I just leave it set and if I gain on someone on the motorway I overtake them. It's only annoying when I haven't adjusted the speed for an entire motorway journey but I've overtaken and been overtaken by the same non-cruise cars multiple times.

Especially the ones who sit beside you and decide to stop accelerating and do a 50 second overtake, then pull in front of you and force you to brake. If anyone knows what's going on in their heads please let me know

The monkey in their head has lost a cymbal.

Personally i love CC ,
and CC in an auto which I am using alot now is just lovely .
Lane control, not a fan

Mango Joe · 22-02-2021 5:39pm

Occasionally you'll have old-style cruise control on and ponder about how far it would take you if things went wrong for whatever reason.

Saw a video clip on Reddit then about 6 months ago where a Driver had a medical crisis and lost consciousness with cruise control on.

Basically it's footage of a car driving, lurching and bouncing across fields, through fences etc. - weaving in big aimless arcs smashing through everything in its path.

Can't seem to find it now - Someone will link to it hopefully.

- PS I would really, really miss CC on a motorway spin or a long journey on decent, quiet roads, wouldn't buy a car that didn't have it etc.

corkgsxr · 22-02-2021 5:47pm

You'll find cc a issue if you set it too high

Your better sticking to slightly lower than the limit. Works fine and you just adjust it with the + - to add or take a few klms.

Previously I'd have a heavy foot but this seems to work better.

liamog · 23-02-2021 3:49pm

I use my dumb cruise control quite a lot, I find it very easy to tap it on at the required speed, and then simple tap of the cancel button or brake will easily knock it back off.
I'd say the best use I get out of it, is in area's with a lower speed limit. I find it's the easiest way to stick with a 30km/h zone.

Bass Reeves · 23-02-2021 4:28pm

liamog wrote: »

I use my dumb cruise control quite a lot, I find it very easy to tap it on at the required speed, and then simple tap of the cancel button or brake will easily knock it back off.
I'd say the best use I get out of it, is in area's with a lower speed limit. I find it's the easiest way to stick with a 30km/h zone.

Ya brilliant for that as well where you have to travel a distance within a speed limit

redcup342 · 23-02-2021 4:37pm

DriveSkill wrote: »

I think it should be the exact opposite! ACC or CC should be the perfect solution to avoid speeding tickets

Personally I tend to use CC or ACC all the time, have one car with each, most cars allow you to "notch-up" or "notch-down" by 10km/hr via the controls on the steering wheel. So yes, you need to be attentive to the change of speed limits but still makes for a much more relaxing drive - see a speed limit reduction sign, drop back 10/20 km as required - with ACC it makes it much better as if the guy in front decides to slow down more so will you. Equally if he decides to ignore the speed limit well off with him!

Not on a Tesla, it will read the speed limit then accelerate up to that speed.

The point is before you realise it's usually too late.

Not so much of an issue in Ireland as speed cameras are few and far between

DriveSkill · 25-02-2021 1:01pm

redcup342 wrote: »

Not on a Tesla, it will read the speed limit then accelerate up to that speed.

The point is before you realise it's usually too late.

Not so much of an issue in Ireland as speed cameras are few and far between

Is the issue that it is mis-reading the speed limit sign and setting CC higher than it should ? Sounds more like an issue with the speed sign recognition than ACC itself.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 25-02-2021 1:52pm

Stallingrad wrote: »

Predictable boards response. What makes you think I am not paying attention? And like the above poster my right foot is always sort of hovering. When you set a generous gap you can feel the car slowing or speeding up, that makes the driving experience much more relaxing and reasuring than normal CC.

f that's the case then you are driving too fast for the conditions/road you are on. I regularly use CC and don't have to hover my foot anywhere near the brake, in fact, I usually pull my feet back closer to the seat to be more comfortable. I have never had an 'oh sh*t' moment when the CC meant I was caught by surprise and had to brake suddenly.

IMO if you need to hover your foot over the brake then you would be better off not using it as it would be more comfortable and easier to rest your foot on the accelerator.

redcup342 · 26-02-2021 11:15am

DriveSkill wrote: »

Is the issue that it is mis-reading the speed limit sign and setting CC higher than it should ? Sounds more like an issue with the speed sign recognition than ACC itself.

Yep, it reads the signs but sometimes it will miss them.

You have to be really careful, even if it reads the sign it won't slow down in time before a speed camera.

It actually acts as misinformation, like you are driving along in Germany and you pass a speed limit sign. The Navigation in the Tesla will tell you its a time based speed limit (e.g. after 19 its 100km/h) you take a few seconds to think about the sign you just passed and did it have a time specified)

Yes ok its after 19 .. but did it have a time on it ...

By then you just got flashed.

Wildly Boaring · 26-02-2021 11:29am

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

f that's the case then you are driving too fast for the conditions/road you are on. I regularly use CC and don't have to hover my foot anywhere near the brake, in fact, I usually pull my feet back closer to the seat to be more comfortable. I have never had an 'oh sh*t' moment when the CC meant I was caught by surprise and had to brake suddenly.

IMO if you need to hover your foot over the brake then you would be better off not using it as it would be more comfortable and easier to rest your foot on the accelerator.

I leave my foot rest on the accelerator when i use CC
Not pushing it. Resting
Then it's natural to flick to brakes if needed.

I used do what you do. Leave foot near seat.
Had a dope from Lane 2 cut me up and slam on to get an exit.
The toe of my size 12 caught the underside of the brake peddle in unnatural motion to get to the brake.

Vic_08 · 26-02-2021 1:02pm

redcup342 wrote: »

Yep, it reads the signs but sometimes it will miss them.

You have to be really careful, even if it reads the sign it won't slow down in time before a speed camera.

It actually acts as misinformation, like you are driving along in Germany and you pass a speed limit sign. The Navigation in the Tesla will tell you its a time based speed limit (e.g. after 19 its 100km/h) you take a few seconds to think about the sign you just passed and did it have a time specified)

Yes ok its after 19 .. but did it have a time on it ...

By then you just got flashed.

Well then turn off the speed limit detection, it obviously is not good enough to rely on, in fact don't Tesla explicitly state that their system is only a driver aid, not an autonomous system and it is 100% the responsibility of the driver to keep control of the car.

Until there is a fully autonomous system that allows me to sit in the back reading the paper or having a snooze, one that will fully indemnify me from any liability or legal repercussions of any failure of the car to drive itself correctly I have no interest in being in a car that will override my control.

Your (and the op's) posts just highlight the dangerousness of these semi-autonomous systems in causing drivers to abdicate responsibility for their driving and actively promote inattentive behaviour.

Calahonda52 · 26-02-2021 1:07pm

Stallingrad wrote: »

Predictable boards response. What makes you think I am not paying attention? And like the above poster my right foot is always sort of hovering. When you set a generous gap you can feel the car slowing or speeding up, that makes the driving experience much more relaxing and reasuring than normal CC.

So you penned it with the intention of eliciting what you regard as a predictable response.
Try this for size
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-tesla-autopilot-idUSKCN0ZN1XX

Cruise control will kill you!

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