New REPS

04-02-2021 9:44pm #1

anyone entering this or have further info on what practicalities of what would be involved

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/reps-a-step-closer-to-reality-600213

(Copy and paste link to incogneto tab to read!)

893bet · 04-02-2021 9:45pm

I want in but details seem light so far.

Dunedin · 04-02-2021 9:51pm

Did I read in it that you can’t be in Glas and the new reps. Be nice to have the two!!!!!

893bet · 04-02-2021 10:25pm

Dunedin wrote: »

Did I read in it that you can’t be in Glas and the new reps. Be nice to have the two!!!!!

That is correct. Or in any other environmental scheme e.g organic etc.

grange mac · 04-02-2021 11:47pm

893bet wrote: »

That is correct. Or in any other environmental scheme e.g organic etc.

My reading was for trial this year you can't have been in Glas at all in past to be eligible for the trial this year.

Birdnuts · 05-02-2021 2:09am

At least its results based and the best performing farmers are rewarded with the highest payments. Natura areas look set to attract higher payments too with more and more EU Life projects like the one in the Burren to be rolled out

zetor 4911 · 05-02-2021 10:48am

endainoz wrote: »

No, I think this is for the pilot scheme. It sounds like it was made to encourage people who aren't in GLAS to participate. I'm not sure if it makes much sense to be fair.

Think it will be a test run for the new scheme to be introduced in 2023 and with all test runs there are usually a lot of controls in place.

893bet · 05-02-2021 11:06am

grange mac wrote: »

My reading was for trial this year you can't have been in Glas at all in past to be eligible for the trial this year.

Better still as I really want in. Especially if there is lots of fencing involved and capital contributions towards it.

grange mac · 05-02-2021 11:33am

893bet wrote: »

Better still as I really want in. Especially if there is lots of fencing involved and capital contributions towards it.

Well I suggest you do some pricing now and again when scheme is announced... You know what will happen when suppliers know grants are going....

minerleague · 05-02-2021 1:11pm

Blaaz_ wrote: »

anyone entering this or have further info on what practicalities of what would be involved

https://www.farmersjournal.ie/reps-a-step-closer-to-reality-600213

(Copy and paste link to incogneto tab to read!)

Anyone know can you join local river catchment scheme and reps ( talk of local scheme here would like to join but presume you can't get paid twice for same actions )

jimini0 · 25-02-2021 9:49pm

Any update on this? Can't find any proper information online

zetor 4911 · 25-02-2021 9:52pm

jimini0 wrote: »

Any update on this? Can't find any proper information online

Scheme isn't even drawn up yet

jimini0 · 25-02-2021 10:12pm

zetor 4911 wrote: »

Scheme isn't even drawn up yet

I thought a few more details might have been leaked.

zetor 4911 · 25-02-2021 10:18pm

jimini0 wrote: »

I thought a few more details might have been leaked.

Closing date for submissions is tomorrow so that give an idea to the stage there are at. I wouldn't be getting my Hope's up about this scheme GLAS was a step down from the old REPS and this scheme will be another step down from GLAS

893bet · 25-02-2021 10:53pm

zetor 4911 wrote: »

Closing date for submissions is tomorrow so that give an idea to the stage there are at. I wouldn't be getting my Hope's up about this scheme GLAS was a step down from the old REPS and this scheme will be another step down from GLAS

For those not in either this will be a big step up!

SuperTeeJay · 25-02-2021 11:07pm

893bet wrote: »

For those not in either this will be a big step up!

How do you apply?
I can't see a link on the department website to put in a submission.

zetor 4911 · 25-02-2021 11:19pm

SuperTeeJay wrote: »

How do you apply?
I can't see a link on the
department website to put in a submission.

Think it is the farm organisations who can put in a submission along with other groups

White Clover · 25-02-2021 11:21pm

zetor 4911 wrote: »

Think it is the farm organisations who can put in a submission along with other groups

Could you put in a word for Boards.ie F&F posters

zetor 4911 · 25-02-2021 11:23pm

White Clover wrote: »

Could you put in a word for Boards.ie F&F posters

Now that's an idea

Bitten & Hisses · 26-02-2021 10:51am

zetor 4911 wrote: »

Think it is the farm organisations who can put in a submission along with other groups

Anyone can lodge a submission, but it closes today:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DAFM_ResultsBasedPilot

My biggest fear is that the participation costs (consultant fees) could erode a lot of the payment. Think back to REPS1, 2, 3 in the past where there was an annual fee for the consultant "supervising" your annual return which was like a tax on the payment rather than bearing any relation to the workload involved.

Dunedin · 26-02-2021 10:56am

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Anyone can lodge a submission, but it closes today:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DAFM_ResultsBasedPilot

My biggest fear is that the participation costs (consultant fees) could erode a lot of the payment. Think back to REPS1, 2, 3 in the past where there was an annual fee for the consultant "supervising" your annual return which was like a tax on the payment rather than bearing any relation to the workload involved.

To be fair the fees were generally around €100 per year against payments which may be up to €7-10k so not that painful. Always thought the cost of the initial plan was sausy though.

zetor 4911 · 26-02-2021 10:58am

Bitten & Hisses wrote: »

Anyone can lodge a submission, but it closes today:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DAFM_ResultsBasedPilot

My biggest fear is that the participation costs (consultant fees) could erode a lot of the payment. Think back to REPS1, 2, 3 in the past where there was an annual fee for the consultant "supervising" your annual return which was like a tax on the payment rather than bearing any relation to the workload involved.

I think the title of the survey monkey (results based pilot) tells us a lot, so what every money we get will be hard earned.

893bet · 26-02-2021 11:23am

zetor 4911 wrote: »

I think the title of the survey monkey (results based pilot) tells us a lot, so what every money we get will be hard earned.

Rumour is is that there will be

1) base payment
2) capital payments
3) results based payment.

Water John · 26-02-2021 2:54pm

With every plot having a results based payment, it will be a good employer.
I think I have 8 plots.

zetor 4911 · 26-02-2021 3:07pm

Water John wrote: »

With every plot having a results based payment, it will be a good employer.
I think I have 8 plots.

Who will assess the result based payment? Does it mean that the department will have to assess it every year to see that they are getting value for money

Dinzee Conlee · 26-02-2021 3:52pm

Does anyone know about the Countryside Stewardship scheme they have in the UK?

Someone said to me that the new REPS would be akin to this? I don't know if that right or not...

I had a quick look online, but its hard to know how good or not this was on the ground. Be interesting here if anyone knew of it first hand...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countryside-stewardship-mid-tier-and-wildlife-offers-manual-for-agreements-starting-on-1-january-2022/2-how-it-works

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countryside-stewardship-mid-tier-and-wildlife-offers-manual-for-agreements-starting-on-1-january-2022/annex-2a-tables-of-mid-tier-multi-year-options-and-capital-items

zetor 4911 · 26-02-2021 4:14pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Does anyone know about the Countryside Stewardship scheme they have in the UK?

Someone said to me that the new REPS would be akin to this? I don't know if that right or not...

I had a quick look online, but its hard to know how good or not this was on the ground. Be interesting here if anyone knew of it first hand...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countryside-stewardship-mid-tier-and-wildlife-offers-manual-for-agreements-starting-on-1-january-2022/2-how-it-works

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countryside-stewardship-mid-tier-and-wildlife-offers-manual-for-agreements-starting-on-1-january-2022/annex-2a-tables-of-mid-tier-multi-year-options-and-capital-items

This is probably the direction the department will go with the new scheme. It could not be further removed from the old REPS. It a pity that it was announced as a REPS scheme as it has got our expectations sky high probably political at the time to call it a REPS scheme.

Dinzee Conlee · 26-02-2021 5:15pm

zetor 4911 wrote: »

This is probably the direction the department will go with the new scheme. It could not be further removed from the old REPS. It a pity that it was announced as a REPS scheme as it has got our expectations sky high probably political at the time to call it a REPS scheme.

I dont know zetor...

I think we will never see the likes of the old REPS again. But, if the new REPS was more payment based, for what you did - at least you might have the chance of getting some decent money from it, if you chose a lot of options...

But, as with everything, the devil is in the detail...

Birdnuts · 26-02-2021 5:23pm

Dinzee Conlee wrote: »

Does anyone know about the Countryside Stewardship scheme they have in the UK?

Someone said to me that the new REPS would be akin to this? I don't know if that right or not...

I had a quick look online, but its hard to know how good or not this was on the ground. Be interesting here if anyone knew of it first hand...

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countryside-stewardship-mid-tier-and-wildlife-offers-manual-for-agreements-starting-on-1-january-2022/2-how-it-works

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/countryside-stewardship-mid-tier-and-wildlife-offers-manual-for-agreements-starting-on-1-january-2022/annex-2a-tables-of-mid-tier-multi-year-options-and-capital-items

AFAIK know it was results based and alot more effective than REPS in terms of its aims

Dinzee Conlee · 26-02-2021 5:32pm

Birdnuts wrote: »

AFAIK know it was results based and alot more effective than REPS in terms of its aims

It would seem to be - but do you know how it worked? Or how it was setup, etc...

Just be interested to hear from a farmers perspective - but I dont know how many UK based farmers we have here, so prob not the best place to be asking

Water John · 26-02-2021 9:21pm

I presume your ag consultant will draw up a plan with you. Then I assume a return visit each year for a visual on each plot, maybe pics and possible sampling.
I suspect if things don't go well, you get the Basic payment which would only be part of the new payment BISS, the old SFP. Have I got this wrong?

26-02-2021 10:15pm

Water John wrote: »

I presume your ag consultant will draw up a plan with you. Then I assume a return visit each year for a visual on each plot, maybe pics and possible sampling.
I suspect if things don't go well, you get the Basic payment which would only be part of the new payment BISS, the old SFP. Have I got this wrong?

Apologies if this is patronising, it's not meant to be! I'm also not 100% standing over it as I'm not involved in this typa shyte as much as I used to be :pac:

Today you get BPS & Greening in one payment pretty much.

Next CAP it'll be split into the BISS and ECO Scheme - the ECO Scheme (don't quote me, I don't know if the % has been decided) will be maybe 20 or 30 % of todays BPS.

Your BISS will be on the lowest level of conditionality (the obligations you sign up to meet to receive payment.) Todays Greening is on the same level as Todays BPS mostly.

The Eco Scheme will have higher conditionality (more or different obligations) than BISS for you to meet to draw down.

The so called REPS Scheme is entirely different from BPS, Greening, BISS and the ECO Scheme. REPS will have higher, or more, obligations again to meet to draw down as you can't get paid in two schemes for the same action (AFAIK anyway).

I imagine your "planner" will assess progress, subject to department inspection. I have issues with the planner/farmer relationship in these schemes because once you pays your money your planner is in full control, dept usually doesn't want to know. GLAS was a shining turd of an example of this. I don't know who will be on any approved list of planners but I'd advise to choose carefully and pick someone with a good reputation.

Water John · 26-02-2021 10:26pm

Thanks, misunderstood the stack.

ruwithme · 26-02-2021 10:53pm

Local planner here retired after over 40 years in farm advisory roles.he will be very hard replaced. A practical man with a great brain for the job.
He's the first of a number of men, i deal with routinely each year who i expect will be retiring soon,vet,tractor mechanic,accountant,car mechanic .all off a similar age.

Personally i liked the glas & would happily have it remain with similar measures

jntsnk · 26-02-2021 10:57pm

GlAs money was small. The new scheme needs a far higher pay out. But I doubt that will happen.

Bass Reeves · 27-02-2021 12:33am

Any new environment scheme will have to compensate lads on marginal land to let it remain marginal. GLAS was a money scheme really for farmers with larger tracts of land in different parcels. You could not get paid on X if you claimed on Y. This often encourage improvement of environmentally sensitive land. For instant I had land on which a water course was on . As I was paid on fencing I could not put the land in for LIPP even though from an environment point of view this is what would be best practice. TlUou could claim no payment for a SAC unless it was in your BPS claim this excluded large amounts of SAC land that was scrub or wooded.

Birdnuts · 27-02-2021 1:32am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Any new environment scheme will have to compensate lads on marginal land to let it remain marginal. GLAS was a money scheme really for farmers with larger tracts of land in different parcels. You could not get paid on X if you claimed on Y. This often encourage improvement of environmentally sensitive land. For instant I had land on which a water course was on . As I was paid on fencing I could not put the land in for LIPP even though from an environment point of view this is what would be best practice. TlUou could claim no payment for a SAC unless it was in your BPS claim this excluded large amounts of SAC land that was scrub or wooded.

That interpretation by DAFM is actually illegal when it comes to SAC land and BPS payments - Natura farmers group won a case a few years ago on that matter against them in the High court. Highlights the ongoing issue of this state ignoring the E in the GAEC provisions for all CAP payments.

SuperTortoise · 27-02-2021 9:47pm

Can't keep up with the acronyms, it's worse than NASA!

I don't see any of us being better off with any new schemes, we'll just be expected to work harder to stand still.
Larry and the supermarkets are laughing all the way to the bank.

morphy87 · 27-02-2021 10:50pm

Does anyone hear have any idea what the payment rates will be an acre or what will be the max one person can draw down on this scheme?

27-02-2021 11:39pm

SuperTortoise wrote: »

Can't keep up with the acronyms, it's worse than NASA!

I don't see any of us being better off with any new schemes, we'll just be expected to work harder to stand still.
Larry and the supermarkets are laughing all the way to the bank.

Yep, the Eco Scheme is a good example of that, where that % of a farmers payment will move up a level in terms of hoop-jumping. Unfortunately there's more of that coming down the line.

My opinion, for a while now, is this "public money" has hopped into "over reach" territory in it's expectations. We, the recipients/addicts are expected to be all things to all people and do all things for all those people for a reducing pot of money BUT on the other side of that coin can't get paid for the same measure in two different schemes.

Some (and I want to use that word very, very carefully) of what the brexiters have been saying is making increasing sense.

Water John · 28-02-2021 10:59am

It will depend on what Michael Gove will be proposing for UK farmers. It will be interesting for comparison, but we'll have the sail the boat we've got.
Thanks for giving the schemes stack above, my old brain had got addled.

New REPS

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