Tiny Forest

Simon.d · 23-02-2021 5:13pm #1

I want to plant about 180m^2 with a native mix (Ash, Oak & Hazel predominantly, with smaller quantities of other native shrubs and trees in between). It's a bit of a Garden project but want quite a dense planting as per a Japanese rapid growth method, about 3.5 plants per square metre, which totals 500 odd plants.

What's the best way to go about buying that kind of volume? Can I deal with Coillte Nurseries as a private individual? I want as local provenance as possible to the South East..

I appreciate Ash can't be bought, so will try harvest and propagate this years green shoots from trees around me with rooting hormone.

tabby aspreme · 23-02-2021 11:55pm

None so Hardy Nurseries in Shillelagh, take a look at their website for prices and stocklist. Coillte don't sell to to the public

Simon.d · 24-02-2021 5:00pm

Thanks.. They're quite reasonably priced!

Any thoughts for experienced forester's on the merits/problems of the Miyawaki plantation method... I'm not planting for economic reasons, more ecological and personal. It's very popular in Asia, but a few examples have popped up in this part of the world in the last year or so. ( https://earthwatch.org.uk/get-involved/tiny-forests )

Main idea is that you loosen up and enrich the soil 1m down with biomass and compost, which in theory facilitates rapid root growth and subsequent stem growth.. This growth is further promoted by increasing competition among stems by dense planting..

tabby aspreme · 24-02-2021 8:42pm

What soil prep is done to get 1m deep, would that not release a lot of carbon, if you have reasonable soil, all you will need to do is slot plant them with a spade, Ireland has one of the world's best climates for growing trees, if they get half a chance they will grow, the most important thing is to stop grass and other plants competing with them for the first few years

Simon.d · 24-02-2021 9:43pm

I'd be hiring a digger and removing 1m of soil then returning most of it with biomass (i.e. wood chippings, straw etc) and compost mixed through. The theory is that you create the conditions of an established forest, with a loose and fertile soil that allows easy root penetration. Again I don't know if it's worth the effort! Soil analysis is seen as important beforehand to identify what proportions of biomass and compost should be added, i.e. heavy clay soils need a lot of loosening..

Another important step is mulching, putting a good layer of straw on top after planting and keeping weed free for two years.. Light levels should be low enough to keep weeds at bay there after.

blue5000 · 24-02-2021 9:59pm

Simon.d wrote: »

I want to plant about 180m^2 with a native mix (Ash, Oak & Hazel predominantly, with smaller quantities of other native shrubs and trees in between). It's a bit of a Garden project but want quite a dense planting as per a Japanese rapid growth method, about 3.5 plants per square metre, which totals 500 odd plants.

What's the best way to go about buying that kind of volume? Can I deal with Coillte Nurseries as a private individual? I want as local provenance as possible to the South East..

I appreciate Ash can't be bought, so will try harvest and propagate this years green shoots from trees around me with rooting hormone.

Simon.d wrote: »

I'd be hiring a digger and removing 1m of soil then returning most of it with biomass (i.e. wood chippings, straw etc) and compost mixed through. The theory is that you create the conditions of an established forest, with a loose and fertile soil that allows easy root penetration. Again I don't know if it's worth the effort! Soil analysis is seen as important beforehand to identify what proportions of biomass and compost should be added, i.e. heavy clay soils need a lot of loosening..

Another important step is mulching, putting a good layer of straw on top after planting and keeping weed free for two years.. Light levels should be low enough to keep weeds at bay there after.

I haven't heard of this planting method, but are you talking about removing the top 1m of soil over the whole site, mixing it with compost, then putting it back again, or digging 3-4 holes per square meter?

Simon.d · 24-02-2021 10:37pm

Not removing from site, but yes, digging entire site and mixing proportionally as you go.. So quite a costly prep, which would want to be worth it... Apparently you get quite a significant increase in growth, which as I want to have it as an amenity at home, is why I want to go for it.

Here's a link: http://urban-forests.com/service-2/

tabby aspreme · 24-02-2021 10:56pm

Planting Ash is a gamble at the moment, and probably a waste of time until Dieback resistant strains are available, native Birch, Alder, and Willow will grow rapidly, just put them in the ground, they would probably smother Oak though.

blue5000 · 25-02-2021 12:59am

Simon.d wrote: »

Not removing from site, but yes, digging entire site and mixing proportionally as you go.. So quite a costly prep, which would want to be worth it... Apparently you get quite a significant increase in growth, which as I want to have it as an amenity at home, is why I want to go for it.

Here's a link: http://urban-forests.com/service-2/

Not very CO2 friendly digging that deep to plant a tree is it? Sort of defeats the purpose to me.

Simon.d · 25-02-2021 8:03am

blue5000 wrote: »

Not very CO2 friendly digging that deep to plant a tree is it? Sort of defeats the purpose to me.

Not necessarily.. There's a calculation to be made most certainly: carbon cost of extra inputs (ie volume of diesel burned by digger) versus the increase in biomass produced (assuming there is an increase!)

Accidentally · 25-02-2021 8:13am

I fully agree with tabby. If your soil is any way reasonable, just slot in bare roots with a spade. We have a great climate for growing trees and I really can't see any long term benefit versus turning over a metre deep of ground.

Avoid ash, you'll just be pulling up dead sticks in 2-3 years time. Alder or Scots Pine both do well as nursery trees, for protecting oak. You can thin out the nursery trees as the more valuable ones become established.

Simon.d · 25-02-2021 9:20am

Accidentally wrote: »

I fully agree with tabby. If your soil is any way reasonable, just slot in bare roots with a spade. We have a great climate for growing trees and I really can't see any long term benefit versus turning over a metre deep of ground.

Avoid ash, you'll just be pulling up dead sticks in 2-3 years time. Alder or Scots Pine both do well as nursery trees, for protecting oak. You can thin out the nursery trees as the more valuable ones become established.

I'm leaning to just slotting in trees, as it will save quite a bit of money..

Is there any significant benefit to mulching young trees with respect to growth rates? Keeps soil damper in the summer, and keeps herbaceous growth down? It's another component of this method.

Would there be a benefit to adding compost at the surface? Again with growth rate in mind..

I've Ash around me which has wild seeded and looks very healthy.. It will quite probably wild seed in the forest over time regardless.

tabby aspreme · 25-02-2021 9:41am

In a small area of densely planted trees adding a surface mulch is a good plan, mechanical or chemical grass control would be difficult with trees so close together

Accidentally · 25-02-2021 3:21pm

If the ash self seeds that's fine, but please don't plant it. I'd hate to see you pulling up hundreds of trees in a few years time. Don't be fooled by healthy ash saplings, they all look healthy until the day they don't.

From what I've seen with mulcing or spraying, the primary purpose is to keep competition down. Sunlight it the key for good growth.

forgottenhills · 25-02-2021 4:45pm

Agree with everything posters have said here. Also be careful with the mix of trees that you plant. Some trees like sycamore will shoot up if they like the conditions and out-compete everything else with their wide leaves.

pajosjunkbox · 25-02-2021 8:45pm

I planted a small forest 6 years ago to screen off the road from my house. It was the best thing I have done on the site. I bought 1 and 2 year old bare root native Irish trees from None so hardy nursery. About 1500 in total. I did nothing to the ground only made a slit and popped the trees in.

They are flying it and are 3 or 4 times my height now. I planted birch, oak, scots pine, alder, whitethorn , larch , holly, mountain ash. They are fantastic in all seasons. I would highly recommend doing it. I have photos but don't know how to post them !

blue5000 · 26-02-2021 2:27pm

pajosjunkbox wrote: »

I planted a small forest 6 years ago to screen off the road from my house. It was the best thing I have done on the site. I bought 1 and 2 year old bare root native Irish trees from None so hardy nursery. About 1500 in total. I did nothing to the ground only made a slit and popped the trees in.

They are flying it and are 3 or 4 times my height now. I planted birch, oak, scots pine, alder, whitethorn , larch , holly, mountain ash. They are fantastic in all seasons. I would highly recommend doing it. I have photos but don't know how to post them !

I think this is the key, diversity. In the garden here we have beech, birch, ash, holly, hawthorn, apple, willow, walnut, maple, mountain ash, oak and plum.

In the forestry we planted Norway and sitka spruce and alder. But there is a biodiversity area in the middle of it with native trees too.

pajosjunkbox · 26-02-2021 3:21pm

blue5000 wrote:

I think this is the key, diversity. In the garden here we have beech, birch, ash, holly, hawthorn, apple, willow, walnut, maple, mountain ash, oak and plum.

I've also planted beech and willow. This winter I've put in a small orchard of apple, pear and plum. Have planted some but trees also. Nothing like turning a bare field into a tree paradise !!!

accidental forester · 09-03-2021 11:23pm

Michael Viney sings the praises of alder for Miyawaki planting in the Irish Times.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/another-life-the-hardy-alder-relishes-getting-its-feet-wet-on-river-banks-1.4493962

slowmanie · 17-03-2021 10:37am

Rather than digging over all that soil, which disturbs and damages a lot of the soil life, and uses a lot of energy and money, I'd consider whether you can go to a local woodland area and gather up a little of the leaf and deadwood litter. This will be full of the fungal communities that your micro forest will benefit from, so using that as a mulch may help speed up the establishement of the forest ecosystem. There are permission issues and of course you want to take only a small amount. But the world really needs healthy native forests to be reinstated so I think the moral imperative to do this (in a thoughtful and careful way) outweighs other considerations, personally. Good luck with it!

Simon.d · 19-03-2021 1:44pm

slowmanie wrote: »

Rather than digging over all that soil, which disturbs and damages a lot of the soil life, and uses a lot of energy and money, I'd consider whether you can go to a local woodland area and gather up a little of the leaf and deadwood litter. This will be full of the fungal communities that your micro forest will benefit from, so using that as a mulch may help speed up the establishement of the forest ecosystem. There are permission issues and of course you want to take only a small amount. But the world really needs healthy native forests to be reinstated so I think the moral imperative to do this (in a thoughtful and careful way) outweighs other considerations, personally. Good luck with it!

That's a good idea.. The parents have a small naturally forested spot by their house, so have a source!

I've had the area in question as meadow for the last few years, but to maximize it's ecological potential I think Native forest is the only way.. The meadow flora I have currently should seed a good field layer for the forest, so I'm reluctant to dig it up..

Spudmonkey · 27-03-2021 12:11pm

I'd seen that Japanese method of quick growth forests before. I was attracted by a video I'd seen on how to get a 100 year old forest in 10 years through this highly compacted potting scheme. From what I figured though this was something for hotter climates though, especially ones where trees would struggle on their own. I think they advocated digging deep and putting some vermi-compost in and then mulching the soil to keep weeds down. Not sure any of it was hugely applicable to ireland though. Trees when given a chance fly up here.

Last November I ordered 800 trees from Future Forests for a field beside my parents. Mix of Native, both canopy and lower layer. Created a border the whole way around the field and can already see the buds coming. Created a few little groves at the corners (would have done them in the centre of the field as well but a step too far for the father

) and a verge of about 4m everywhere else. A few posters have said it already, the holes don't even need to be that big. Big enough for a root ball. No need to get a digger in. Just keep an eye on them for a couple of years to keep brambles and weeds down.

Simon.d · 28-03-2021 8:44am

There's a few recent examples in this neck of the woods so we'll see how the loosening exercise affects growth in the coming years.. ( Particularly this one) I'll be skipping it though and will concentrate on high density and deep mulching...

I can see how putting light pressure on a tree can promote growth, in my own garden trees in partial shade have grown much more that those in full light. So I'm firmly behind the notion that planting density will positively affect growth rate, with the knowledge that a higher proportion of outcompeted trees will die off in the process..

Tiny Forest

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