Legality of riding bike back from UK

rowanh · 09-05-2019 5:09pm #1

Hey folks,

I was talking to someone who just imported a bike from the UK, he had it picked up without actually seeing the bike. It seems like it would make more sense to me to go over and have a look at it before buying them bring it home on the ferry. He was saying there is an issue with this, something to do with the log book and not being able to have the correct documentation for export and also for riding it there. I am not sure on the exact details but he was saying people get their bikes seized. Anyone know anything about this?

XsApollo · 09-05-2019 5:13pm

I’m pretty sure it’s the same as importing a car?
Inform your insurance company of the English Reg and insure it.
You have a certain amount of time to then change it to an Irish reg.
As for the paper work you take the piece off the logbook that’s required here for importing and the owner sends his piece to say that it’s been exported.
Then you can drive it wherever you like.

Keep the ferry receipt and your part of the logbook for registering it here.

Edit: make sure you get the correct part of the logbook off them . Or you will have to go through hassle to get it yourself after the fact.

Del2005 · 09-05-2019 5:46pm

XsApollo wrote: »

I’m pretty sure it’s the same as importing a car?
Inform your insurance company of the English Reg and insure it.
You have a certain amount of time to then change it to an Irish reg.
As for the paper work you take the piece off the logbook that’s required here for importing and the owner sends his piece to say that it’s been exported.
Then you can drive it wherever you like.

Keep the ferry receipt and your part of the logbook for registering it here.

Edit: make sure you get the correct part of the logbook off them . Or you will have to go through hassle to get it yourself after the fact.

It's tax that is the issue. Since the UK went paperless the tax expires on change of ownership. The new owner is supposed to tax it when they buy. Because when exporting you don't have a UK address you can't tax it so you run the risk of having the vehicle lifted for no tax as you travel to the ferry.

XsApollo · 09-05-2019 6:32pm

Ah ok,
So when I bought my car during the year, the owner taxed it before I left.
They can then cancel it and get a refund for the difference.
I think it’s in the former owners interest to do that also as it’s still in his name.
Speeding tickets and stuff also.

Also if it’s taxed already and the owner has to send in the form it will still be in his name and taxed until the form has been received.

hairyslug · 09-05-2019 6:35pm

It was 2 years ago when I brought mine over but I'm nearly sure I didn't need an address when taxing it, sorted it out at the sellers kitchen table in 2 minutes.

Philipx · 09-05-2019 9:41pm

Get the registration number of the bike, get it on your insurance and GET A NEW CERT WITH THE REGISTRATION OF THE BIKE ON IT. Bring it with you.

Can't emphasise this enough. If Plod stop you on the way back to the ferry they will impound the bike for no insurance if it it not specifically mentioned on the cert. You also run the risk of being arrested & detained for court unless you have a UK address for service of documents.

Been there

Deal done, the seller retains the blue portion of the V5 (permanent export), they send that to Swansea to have the bike registered as exported.

Do not leave without V5, VRT require it.

Also use registration number when booking ferry, again needed for VRT.

If it requires tax (expired or SORNed) get them to tax it online there & then. One bike is registered as exported they can claim it back.

HTH

Charles Babbage · 09-05-2019 9:44pm

XsApollo wrote: »

Ah ok,
So when I bought my car during the year, the owner taxed it before I left.
They can then cancel it and get a refund for the difference.
I think it’s in the former owners interest to do that also as it’s still in his name.
Speeding tickets and stuff also.

Also if it’s taxed already and the owner has to send in the form it will still be in his name and taxed until the form has been received.

Just make sure your insurance is valid given that the bike is in someone else's name.

listermint · 09-05-2019 10:34pm

rowanh wrote: »

Hey folks,

I was talking to someone who just imported a bike from the UK, he had it picked up without actually seeing the bike. It seems like it would make more sense to me to go over and have a look at it before buying them bring it home on the ferry. He was saying there is an issue with this, something to do with the log book and not being able to have the correct documentation for export and also for riding it there. I am not sure on the exact details but he was saying people get their bikes seized. Anyone know anything about this?

I imported mine without seeing it.

Didn't have time to go pick up.

I have it over 4 years later. Not a problem.

macplaxton · 10-05-2019 6:22am

Del2005 wrote: »

It's tax that is the issue. Since the UK went paperless the tax expires on change of ownership. The new owner is supposed to tax it when they buy. Because when exporting you don't have a UK address you can't tax it so you run the risk of having the vehicle lifted for no tax as you travel to the ferry.

Technically yes, but practically no.

It can take some time for the tax record to catch up with a keeper change. Having a vehicle showing as have a valid vehicle licence (taxed) on the system (by previous keeper) will avoid a tug from the old bill.

What will set the ANPR alarm bells ringing is a vehicle not on the UK Motor Insurers' Database. (e.g. seller cancels and buyer has non-UK insurance). They shouldn't seize if you produce a valid certificate of insurance with the vehicle's registration mark on it covering your use of the vehicle. Anything amiss with that cert may result in seizing of the vehicle, but if it appears correct, they have to take it at face value (see Pryor v The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police, 30 June 2011 & a report of it)

AlekSmart · 11-05-2019 12:48pm

Philipx wrote: »

Get the registration number of the bike, get it on your insurance and GET A NEW CERT WITH THE REGISTRATION OF THE BIKE ON IT. Bring it with you.

Can't emphasise this enough. If Plod stop you on the way back to the ferry they will impound the bike for no insurance if it it not specifically mentioned on the cert. You also run the risk of being arrested & detained for court unless you have a UK address for service of documents.

Been there

Deal done, the seller retains the blue portion of the V5 (permanent export), they send that to Swansea to have the bike registered as exported.

Do not leave without V5, VRT require it.

Also use registration number when booking ferry, again needed for VRT.

If it requires tax (expired or SORNed) get them to tax it online there & then. One bike is registered as exported they can claim it back.

HTH

If you are buying privately,a LOT can depend upon both yourself AND the seller being in agreement on the paperwork issues.

I brought back a bike last year,and initially the seller was totally bemused at my requests about the V5,however he had the time to contact the UK's authorities and they confirmed the situation for Privately Exporting a machine.

Picked the bike up on Banbury and had a really nice relaxing spin back over to Holyhead,with no issues at all,until reaching our own M50,where the slight difference in attitudinal standards became evident...(No motorist tried to kill me in Engerland.....Two local motorists made strenuous attempts to do it before I made it home safely).

Oh,I nearly forgot...God Bless Ryanair !

rowanh · 21-05-2019 8:58am

Hi, just resurrecting this as I have sold my bike and decided to pickup one in Liverpool and ride it to Hollyhead. Just to confirm,

If, bike is currently taxed, Mot'd and on an insurance policy.
And the guy does not remove it from his insurance before I get on the ferry.
And I have an insurance cert.

then

I need the complete v5 - the export page
I need the license plate on the ferry receipt

With these circumstances I should have no problems, even if I got stopped at a checkpoint where they look into everything, everything should be above board..

IrishGrimReaper · 21-05-2019 11:56am

Sounds about as right as could be.

Just on the Insurance bit, it doesn't matter about it being on the other guys Insurance. Once you drive off on that bike it's seen as yours. I'm guessing you just don't want to be flagged up by ANPR over the Insurance?

As long as you have the bike listed under your policy with its UK reg at the time you will be making the journey you will be fine as you have valid Insurance in place. The others guys(now previous owners) Insurance doesn't matter, as it would be your policy that would be dealing with a claim.

rowanh · 21-05-2019 5:24pm

Well it turns out his insurance is expiring the day before I get there. Seems anyway it should be fine once I have valid insurance and its taxed and mot'd..

Philipx · 21-05-2019 9:55pm

rowanh wrote: »

Well it turns out his insurance is expiring the day before I get there. Seems anyway it should be fine once I have valid insurance and its taxed and mot'd..

Status of sellers insurance is immaterial.

To reiterate - make sure you get a cert with the bike reg on it.

UK police will not accept that you have it on your insurance unless you can produce cert there and then.

Their policy (and Home Office) is that a UK registered bike cannot be insured on a non-UK policy, so it it up to you to prove otherwise.

KT10 · 22-05-2019 10:59am

I've ridden a number of bikes home from the UK without issue, but the last time was 3/4 years ago, sounds like its gotten much more painful.

Given that the process usually involves:

Getting up at ridicules o'clock to a taxi to Dublin airport (€50) for an early as **** flight (€30 - €80 one way with Ryanair)
Getting a train/bus to the sellers town (€20) more if they're somewhere awkward and won't collect you so its a taxi job
Riding for 100's of miles to get to the ferry, burning 2/3 tanks of juice (€40 - €60)
Getting the ferry home (€80)
Paying €20 for VIP area on the boat (worth it for peace and quiet)

So all in your talking circa €250 - €300 plus probably taking a day off work to go get it.

If I do it in future i think I'll get someone like Teds Trucking to pick the bike up and drop it to my door for €300 - €400 and enjoy my lie in.

galwaytt · 22-05-2019 11:55am

Philipx wrote: »

Status of sellers insurance is immaterial.

To reiterate - make sure you get a cert with the bike reg on it.

UK police will not accept that you have it on your insurance unless you can produce cert there and then.

Their policy (and Home Office) is that a UK registered bike cannot be insured on a non-UK policy, so it it up to you to prove otherwise.

Some info on the above

Sellers insurance is immaterial from a cover point of view. But, as all vehicles are tracked by ANPR, if you pass an ANPR camera car it will flag as uninsured and you'll be pulled over on the spot. You produce your own (Irish) insurance (and they're still in the EU, so it is valid) and you should be OK except for. ..........once you do a change of ownership is done in the UK, the tax automatically lapses. So you (might) get pulled for tax. Which, in the UK, they can seize the vehicle for....

I've three solutions for you:

Get the seller deliver (or ride) the bike, to Holyhead for you. (there's a train straight back, give him the train fare...)
Get a courier to collect it and bring it to Holyhead - or better, all the way here
Get the Ferry from Liverpool instead, and avoid North Wales.

sleepysniper · 22-05-2019 1:44pm

In a similar boat here myself lads.

Heading over on Saturday to potentially buy a bike from a dealer bringing it back on the ferry Sunday afternoon. I've the insurance sorted and will be bringing the cert with me (which states the bike and reg number). Its MOT'd until next year. Only thing it is missing is the tax; which expired on the 03rd of May, so just over 3 weeks ago. Assuming I get pulled over it, what are the chances of them leaving me off without consequences if I provide the ferry ticket and insurance cert? For peace of mind I am thinking about asking the dealer to tax it before I take it and then apply for the refund once its out of the country.

Is it worth the risk of just "chancing it"? Or it is better to throw 6 months tax on it for £48?

Thoughts/advice appreciated.

hairyslug · 22-05-2019 1:59pm

KT10 wrote: »

I've ridden a number of bikes home from the UK without issue, but the last time was 3/4 years ago, sounds like its gotten much more painful.

Given that the process usually involves:

Getting up at ridicules o'clock to a taxi to Dublin airport (€50) for an early as **** flight (€30 - €80 one way with Ryanair)
Getting a train/bus to the sellers town (€20) more if they're somewhere awkward and won't collect you so its a taxi job
Riding for 100's of miles to get to the ferry, burning 2/3 tanks of juice (€40 - €60)
Getting the ferry home (€80)
Paying €20 for VIP area on the boat (worth it for peace and quiet)

So all in your talking circa €250 - €300 plus probably taking a day off work to go get it.

If I do it in future i think I'll get someone like Teds Trucking to pick the bike up and drop it to my door for €300 - €400 and enjoy my lie in.

I was over 2 years ago picking up mine, hopped on a bus at 2 in the morning for a flight to Birmingham, 5 different trains to get to the sellers village and I think it was about 6pm by the time I got back to my hotel in Cardiff. It's all part of the fun though.

rowanh · 22-05-2019 10:34pm

KT10 wrote: »

I've ridden a number of bikes home from the UK without issue, but the last time was 3/4 years ago, sounds like its gotten much more painful.

Given that the process usually involves:

Getting up at ridicules o'clock to a taxi to Dublin airport (€50) for an early as **** flight (€30 - €80 one way with Ryanair)
Getting a train/bus to the sellers town (€20) more if they're somewhere awkward and won't collect you so its a taxi job
Riding for 100's of miles to get to the ferry, burning 2/3 tanks of juice (€40 - €60)
Getting the ferry home (€80)
Paying €20 for VIP area on the boat (worth it for peace and quiet)

So all in your talking circa €250 - €300 plus probably taking a day off work to go get it.

If I do it in future i think I'll get someone like Teds Trucking to pick the bike up and drop it to my door for €300 - €400 and enjoy my lie in.

I havent actually figured out getting to the airport but I live in the city centre..
Ryan air flight to Liverpool 13 euro (plus 13 euro for full size onboard bag/hemet)
The guy is picking me up at the airport, bike is 5 miles away.
Ferry 51 euro
Petrol driving my new bike is hardly an issue, its 2 hours.
Around 100 euros total, maybe a little more but if all goes well it should be a good experience.

Ferry from Liverpool was 125 euro and takes 9 hours or something.. I was going to get a transport but just decided to go for it, I hope its not pissing rain for the two hour ride through wales.

Anyway the tax thing.

When I buy the bike the tax will not be cancelled until he sends the thing in but technically it is voided from when we sign the document?

so I can tax the bike in my name and cancel it when I get home and I guess just pay one days tax? As the bike does not have UK insurance I think this is the best option, does anyone know where to find details of how this works online? I was looking at the UK tax site but the only thing I am seeing is info not paying VAT when exporting new vehicles..

sleepysniper · 24-05-2019 12:04pm

On a somewhat related note; anyone know what the latest is with bringing a helmet onboard a Ryanair flight?

Legality of riding bike back from UK

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