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cuting celing to gain access to atiic room

  • 19-05-2019 2:16pm
    #1
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭


    So my idea is to make smallest possible whole to gain access to attic room. I'm looking for any advice from someone who did it or know someone who did it. Its typical house with wooden joists. Room downstairs have bathroom and is smaller then the attic one - which is almost tree times as big and covers fully the area of the smaller room downstairs. Both of them are in the far corner of the house. i want cheapest option - so I'm thinking something like attic foldable stairs - so it would also take less space - and it could help to go back in to previous design of the house - and be disassembled. House is being rented but landlord is willing to give me permission.


Comments

  • #2
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    1. Is the house very old? If it is it may have 'lat and plaster' ceilings rather than plasterboard. Only a skilled diyer should attempt the former type. Most professional attic ladder installers won't touch them

    2. If plasterboard then its easy enough.Look on youtube. It'll show how to do something that would take many words to try a describe


  • #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mischascha wrote: »
    House is being rented but landlord is willing to give me permission.

    Really? The landlord will give you permission to cut holes in the ceiling of a house you rent, to fit attic stairs to use the attic as a room?

    Is this a new rental?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109859546


  • #4
    riemann
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭riemann


    Based on your ability to type I would suggest avoiding the task you attempted to describe.


  • #5
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    What has someones ability to type got to do with DIY?


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    antiskeptic wrote: »
    What has someones ability to type got to do with DIY?

    Nothing really I suppose.

    True story about DIY and some written words. I once used a bible to hammer a 4” nail into a door frame, for the craic.

    What does a bible have to do with DIY? Well I suppose it’s a book about a carpenter. Does that count?

    Either way, the writing had SFA effect on my DIY skills and I got the job done alright. So, how or what someone types or writes has little to no impact on DIY ability. Well, impact, now there’s the rub.

    That oul crosshair aiming point on the front made it dead handy for lining up the clouts onto the nail head. Must have got a good half dozen belts before I got through genisis too.


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  • #7
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    JayZeus wrote: »
    That oul crosshair aiming point on the front made it dead handy for lining up the clouts onto the nail head. Must have got a good half dozen belts before I got through genisis too.

    Given Genesis is on page one and the cross is on the front cover, that's some cover you had there.


  • #8
    policarp
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,664 ✭✭✭policarp


    riemann wrote: »
    Based on your ability to type I would suggest avoiding the task you attempted to describe.

    Bordering on supremacy or racism.


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    policarp wrote: »
    Bordering on supremacy or racism.

    I know. People coming on here, talking about their attic conversions and keyboards. It's disgraceful Joe.

    OP, when you're done with the sabre saw and the stira folding stair kit, use these handy crocodile tears to wash up.

    All joking aside Mischascha, don't cut holes in a rented house, anywhere. If the landlord is okay with it, get him to do it or he should arrange for someone who knows what they're doing to make the changes. You might upset structure, electrical wiring, plumbing or other things that will very quickly turn "My landlord is okay with me doing this" into a post asking for help before you become homeless.

    Rented houses aren't yours. You get to live in them, and should leave them pretty much unaltered. If you need more space, find a new place. DIY isn't going to solve that problem in a house you don't own, and will likely end in real tears.


  • #10
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭mischascha


    JayZeus wrote: »
    I know. People coming on here, talking about their attic conversions and keyboards. It's disgraceful Joe.

    OP, when you're done with the sabre saw and the stira folding stair kit, use these handy crocodile tears to wash up.

    All joking aside Mischascha, don't cut holes in a rented house, anywhere. If the landlord is okay with it, get him to do it or he should arrange for someone who knows what they're doing to make the changes. You might upset structure, electrical wiring, plumbing or other things that will very quickly turn "My landlord is okay with me doing this" into a post asking for help before you become homeless.

    Rented houses aren't yours. You get to live in them, and should leave them pretty much unaltered. If you need more space, find a new place. DIY isn't going to solve that problem in a house you don't own, and will likely end in real tears.
    I will get all permissions on paper first, get plans for cables - already asked electrician if its possible from his point of view with positive response, I know its bit risky, but I don't think that who ever pays the rent is not homeless - its a matter of perspective, I can't be kick out for any reason anytime anyway, its always a mater of trust at the end, if you have mortgage - from my perspective you are more homless then me:)....The biggest advantage of wooden structure that is being used in majority Irish houses is that they are easier to cut then concreat:), I don't want to cut the joists but go between them, so I wouldn't cut the house - only make a slot for the narrow entrance, but if its too small I would probably abandon the plan...sorry for my English, its not my native language.


  • #11
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,566 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    mischascha wrote: »
    I will get all permissions on paper first, get plans for cables - already asked electrician if its possible from his point of view with positive response, I know its bit risky, but I don't think that who ever pays the rent is not homeless - its a matter of perspective, I can't be kick out for any reason anytime anyway, its always a mater of trust at the end, if you have mortgage - from my perspective you are more homless then me:)....The biggest advantage of wooden structure that is being used in majority Irish houses is that they are easier to cut then concreat:), I don't want to cut the joists but go between them, so I wouldn't cut the house - only make a slot for the narrow entrance, but if its too small I would probably abandon the plan...sorry for my English, its not my native language.

    English is not the issue here: there are cultural differences which may be influencing your thinking.

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



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  • #12
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,305 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    mischascha wrote: »
    I can't be kick out for any reason anytime anyway
    If you colour outside the lines regarding what you get permission for, you'll could be evicted and fined to put it back to what it should be.

    You could make the hole, floor the attic, insulate it, and then be evicted because you decided to do something that your LL didn't give you permission to do.


  • #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    mischascha wrote: »
    I will get all permissions on paper first, get plans for cables - already asked electrician if its possible from his point of view with positive response, I know its bit risky, but I don't think that who ever pays the rent is not homeless - its a matter of perspective, I can't be kick out for any reason anytime anyway, its always a mater of trust at the end, if you have mortgage - from my perspective you are more homless then me:)....The biggest advantage of wooden structure that is being used in majority Irish houses is that they are easier to cut then concreat:), I don't want to cut the joists but go between them, so I wouldn't cut the house - only make a slot for the narrow entrance, but if its too small I would probably abandon the plan...sorry for my English, its not my native language.

    You are never going to get permission to do that in writing. If you do, it's because your landlord couldn't give a crap as the bank are probably going to take it off him anyway.

    Do not alter or spend your own money repairing/renovating/altering a rented property in Ireland. You have no business doing these things. It's different in other countries, but in Ireland, you pay your rent and don't mess with it.


  • #14
    Skatedude
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,674 ✭✭✭Skatedude


    You can use it for storage, but if it's used as a room, then you need to run new floor joists as the attic joists will not be allowed as they are much smaller. opens up a whole can of worms to do it properly.


  • #15
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    In Ireland it is not permissible to convert an attic into liveable (habitable) space without fire safety compliance. Rental property especially. This idea is an absolute no.

    http://www.atticconversions.ie/FAQ/FAQ/Navigation2.html


  • #16
    1874
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭1874


    gozunda wrote: »
    In Ireland it is not permissible to convert an attic into liveable space without fire safety compliance. Rental property especially. This idea is an absolute no.


    I dont think you need planning permission to convert an attic into a liveable space, it does need to be certified/signed off, so presumably it has to be according to building regulations regarding allowable dimensions, structural integrity, electrical work, fire resistance, access and insulation, Id imagine covers a most of it. So if its not and doesnt get signed off, then its on the head of the person who gets the work done/presumably who owns it and maybe when their insurance coverage is found wanting or declines payment.


    So not worth the hassle unless its done right IMO, and not worth anything to spend money to do someone elses property, doesnt make sense.
    (edit, I think you changed that while was writing)


  • #17
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    1874 wrote: »
    I dont think you need planning permission to convert an attic into a liveable space, it does need to be certified/signed off, so presumably it has to be according to building regulations regarding allowable dimensions, structural integrity, electrical work, fire resistance, access and insulation, Id imagine covers a most of it. So if its not and doesnt get signed off, then its on the head of the person who gets the work done/presumably who owns it and maybe when their insurance coverage is found wanting or declines payment.So not worth the hassle unless its done right IMO, and not worth anything to spend money to do someone elses property, doesnt make sense.
    (edit, I think you changed that while was writing)

    Depends what the conversion is to be used for afaik. For example - for a two story house attic conversion for 'habitable' use - then:
    First of all you need to apply for planning permission for habitable status. Cost around 1k to 3k. Next you need to comply with fire regulations for 3 storey houses. This means: Fireproofing the bedroom ceilings Changing all the doors in the house for ‘fire’ doors with auto closers. Installing a dedicated fire escape window. Installing an interlinked smoke alarm system throughout the house. And, you may need to create more space for a ‘regulation’ stairs

    See:

    http://www.atticconversions.ie/FAQ/FAQ/Navigation2.html


  • #18
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭mischascha


    gozunda wrote: »
    In Ireland it is not permissible to convert an attic into liveable (habitable) space without fire safety compliance. Rental property especially. This idea is an absolute no.

    http://www.atticconversions.ie/FAQ/FAQ/Navigation2.html


    Theres already 4 rooms there - that were habitable, with electricity, house is registred with prtb, and indeed people live here - all the rooms are also prepared for bathrooms - so the piping is in place, I will have a look in the link thou. Ok I see the link - if you have any offer - please - send me a private message - and ill provide more details, if the price is reasonable - and it would keep the house construction beams intact - it might be good idea to do it this way, cheers


  • #19
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭mischascha


    there are actually alrady habitable rooms upstairs - with massive wooden stairs leading to it - plus all the rooms are fitted with electricity, windows, and bathroom rooms - altthou bathrooms are not fitted - so its definitely habitable


  • #20
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    mischascha wrote: »
    Theres already 4 rooms there - that were habitable, with electricity, house is registred with prtb, and indeed people live here - all the rooms are also prepared for bathrooms - so the piping is in place, I will have a look in the link thou. Ok I see the link - if you have any offer - please - send me a private message - and ill provide more details, if the price is reasonable - and it would keep the house construction beams intact - it might be good idea to do it this way, cheers

    Under Irish regulations - attic spaces are not usually deemed 'habitable' even if the rest of the house is. There are serious risks and considerations due to fire safety etc.

    Go talk to your landlord or you could find yourself in some hot water....


  • #21
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭mischascha


    gozunda wrote: »
    Under Irish regulations - attic spaces are not usually deemed 'habitable' even if the rest of the house is. There are serious risks and considerations due to fire safety etc.

    Go talk to your landlord or you could find yourself in some hot water....
    Well that's a new information for me to be honest. Stairs are here build permanently - It supposed to be a hostel of some sort as far as my research goes so I think it might have slightly different regulations (gas burner is in separate building) plus it has windows, and sizes of rooms are normal size rooms, plus extra space for bathrooms.


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  • #22
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭cletus


    I'm confused. Are you saying the attic has already been converted? There is a permanent staircase leading up to fully functional rooms?

    If that's the case, why do you want to put in a stira


  • #23
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭mischascha


    cletus wrote: »
    I'm confused. Are you saying the attic has already been converted? There is a permanent staircase leading up to fully functional rooms?

    If that's the case, why do you want to put in a stira
    1st question - yes, 2nd - yes. I want to make - one en suite room this way - with studio upstairs - with private assess to it - the other permanent stairs - are 'public' - so everyone from the house and, family, guests, and other random people can use it at will.


  • #24
    Del2005
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,031 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    mischascha wrote: »
    1st question - yes, 2nd - yes. I want to make - one en suite room this way - with studio upstairs - with private assess to it - the other permanent stairs - are 'public' - so everyone from the house and, family, guests, and other random people can use it at will.

    Just lock the door, much easier and simpler. I've a stira type ladder going to my attic. It's handy for occasional access but gets tiring having to put it up and down for regular access.


  • #25
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This has all the hallmarks of a horror movie plot, or an article in the newspapers in a few years about missing women being found locked in a hidden room where nobody else knew it existed.


  • #26
    JustAThought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    It sounds like there is a converted room with locked stira access that you want to illegally break into and live and create a studio appartment in or use as an extension yo your rented houseshare room - probably without your landlords approval or knowledge. If somebody did this to my house I would personally hunt them down and beak their arms and legs for them. If the house is a semidetatched or terraced.you could not only damage the structural integrity of that house but also the next doors house -or whole row. There was an appartment block where the entire block of 60 or so families were moved out for 8 months OVERNIGHT because there was an issue with fireproof walls in one of the appartments - the fire chief came in and had them all evicted for structural reasons overnight. That can easily happen - don't be that idiot.


  • #27
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,305 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    1874 wrote: »
    I dont think you need planning permission to convert an attic into a liveable space, it does need to be certified/signed off
    If the roof needed to be raised to be the minimum height, they probably would need PP. It being a "studio" usually means that it's not high enough to be a bedroom.
    mischascha wrote: »
    Theres already 4 rooms there
    If there are already rooms there, why are you trying to cut a hole into it?
    mischascha wrote: »
    I want to make - one en suite room this way - with studio upstairs - with private assess to it
    I'd say fire regulations will demand a fixed stairs to the bedroom.


  • #28
    cletus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,050 ✭✭✭cletus


    mischascha wrote: »
    1st question - yes, 2nd - yes. I want to make - one en suite room this way - with studio upstairs - with private assess to it - the other permanent stairs - are 'public' - so everyone from the house and, family, guests, and other random people can use it at will.

    So will you block off the original door to this studio? Only access to be by the stira? Why not just tell your family and guests they can't go in there and lock the door? And how many other random people are in your house?


  • #29
    mischascha
    Closed Accounts Posts: 65 ✭✭mischascha


    the_syco wrote: »
    If the roof needed to be raised to be the minimum height, they probably would need PP. It being a "studio" usually means that it's not high enough to be a bedroom.


    If there are already rooms there, why are you trying to cut a hole into it?


    I'd say fire regulations will demand a fixed stairs to the bedroom.
    the reason for this idea is - the permanent stairs are far away - and not private, and one would need to walk twice the length of the house (around 20 meters). It could make sense, but of course its just an idea - and I know that it would be hard to find someone with same idea but internet reaches more people so why not ask.


  • #30
    Lumen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,138 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    JayZeus wrote: »
    This has all the hallmarks of a horror movie plot, or an article in the newspapers in a few years about missing women being found locked in a hidden room where nobody else knew it existed.

    It makes no sense. Everyone knows the Fritzl suite has to be in the basement.


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