Wrightbus in administration

FrancieBrady · 26-09-2019 11:13pm

GM228 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that Caterpillar (NI) Ltd, the generator production plants. The Caterpillar in trouble now is Caterpillar Finance which is in partnership with Accenture.

oops so it is. Apologies, just heard it on the news and assumed.

NIMAN · 26-09-2019 11:14pm

So it was a call centre?

FrancieBrady · 26-09-2019 11:17pm

NIMAN wrote: »

So it was a call centre?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-49847254

road_high · 26-09-2019 11:30pm

votecounts wrote: »

Don't forget Harlett and Wolf is in trouble as well, one of the of the biggest employers, not a good time for rhe north:(

Gone already I think. Lots of real jobs for them down south anyhow. Job creation at record levels

GM228 · 26-09-2019 11:33pm

NIMAN wrote: »

So it was a call centre?

No, it's a financial shared services centre for the Caterpillar group.

road_high · 26-09-2019 11:34pm

gmisk wrote: »

The massive donations to a church from the company is odd....

They also had a massive history of hiring very few Catholics.....screw em....ballymena is a backwards hole anyway.

No modern multinational in tech or pharmaceutical or finance will look twice at these hellholes for investment- they know they won’t get the talent pool locally or get them to move there. North is at a tipping point now economically. Growth is non existent and the few existing companies that actually operated there are going the way of the dinosaur. Real question is how much longer the English want to continue supporting these layabouts ?

GM228 · 26-09-2019 11:48pm

road_high wrote: »

Gone already I think. Lots of real jobs for them down south anyhow. Job creation at record levels

Not quite, there have been discussions over the last few days involving the administrators and Babcock with regards the £1.3BN Royal Navy Frigate contract. H&W were joint bidders with Babcock and were recently named as the preferred bidders, they could be saved at the 11th hour.

gmisk · 27-09-2019 5:03am

votecounts wrote: »

Paisley Country, what do you expect

Very little, I am originally from about 25 mins from there.

Nice things about Ballymena....hmm...the shops?
Especially the tk Maxx...bar that it's a struggle

FrancieBrady · 27-09-2019 10:13am

God works in mysterious ways (at least he/she is 'working'!)

In an interview with The Irish Times in November 2017, pastor Jeff noted that Cornerstone “made God a shareholder in the business” as 26 per cent of Wrights is owned by the evangelical trust.

Despite being primed to take over the bus builder, pastor Jeff told The Irish Times he felt God had a new question for him. “Do you love me more than these buses?’ I said, ‘yeah, I do’. So God said ‘I want you to feed my lambs and take care of my sheep’.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/manufacturing/wrightbus-owner-made-god-a-shareholder-as-it-recorded-1-7m-loss-1.4030436?fbclid=IwAR2jDSlH295mPYD7vphnvXRQcQgLFnu56yzJvp4g7z_wfazVHLgvQCYz_Gg

road_high · 27-09-2019 10:26am

gmisk wrote: »

Very little, I am originally from about 25 mins from there.

Nice things about Ballymena....hmm...the shops?
Especially the tk Maxx...bar that it's a struggle

These towns are on the same island but seem like a parallel universe to us secular southerners. They basically scare me to visit them and just wouldn’t be bothered tbh

dashcamdanny · 27-09-2019 12:27pm

I really feel sorry for these folk.

They may forget about engineering jobs in such a small town. It reminds me of being made redundant in our recession years ago.

Literally 1000s of construction workers all trying to find work at the same time. And no building anywhere.

The only way to stay afloat and self dependent is to travel or re-skill.

These men wont last long on the dole, most have got up for work 5 days a week since they left school.

Hotblack Desiato · 27-09-2019 12:31pm

“Do you love me more than these buses?’ I said, ‘yeah, I do’. So God said ‘I want you to feed my lambs and take care of my sheep’.”

Well you know what happens to sheep - they get fleeced!

g5fd6ow0hseima · 27-09-2019 4:53pm

gmisk wrote: »

Nice things about Ballymena....hmm...the shops?
Especially the tk Maxx...bar that it's a struggle

I hear the Wetherspoons there is quite a good spot. Probably the only pub in that town you could walk into with a reasonable expectation of walking back out the door in a pleasant mood.

dublinman1990 · 27-09-2019 4:54pm

What is the current status of Airlink with Dublin Bus? Was that planned to have new buses coming in from Wrights later this year for the Airlink rebrand?

Also could the new 24hr upgrade to the 41 be delayed this year because of a lack of new vehicles for Dublin Bus?

NIMAN · 27-09-2019 5:06pm

The area around mid Ulster apparently has a lot of heavy engineering companies, and successful ones at that.

So to say the whole province is a basket case is slightly incorrect.

bk · 27-09-2019 6:06pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Also could the new 24hr upgrade to the 41 be delayed this year because of a lack of new vehicles for Dublin Bus?

I don't see why it would impact this service? Most DB buses are currently parked up overnight in the depots, so plenty there for use overnight.

dublinman1990 · 27-09-2019 7:13pm

Yeah but DB are very slowly getting rid of their older bus fleet as well with their remaining AV's & AX's.

Will they be allowed to keep them in service for a little while longer while the NTA tries to sort out what had happened with recent orders with Wrights. I seen BBC Newsline reports this evening that there are still a small number of DB SG's still parked in the Wrights factory car park. Is their any word on current orders being fulfilled for the NTA for any new buses arriving soon until they will get further word from Wrights on Wednesday?

Do BÉ have any outstanding orders for new Streetlites to operate new local bus services in Navan town?

There is also the issue of GAI receiving 8 new DB SG's from the NTA this year because they somehow had a shortage of buses to operate their routes.

Were they in need of receiving any more new SG's from Wrights in future or was their new fleet order enough for the year?

GM228 · 27-09-2019 7:46pm

Wrightbus worker statement:-

https://twitter.com/vsirnate/status/1177599379445833729?s=19

On a separate note it's interesting to note that NI Water who are recruiting at the moment have specifically requested WB workers to send them their CVs.

GM228 · 27-09-2019 7:57pm

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Yeah but DB are very slowly getting rid of their older bus fleet as well with their remaining AV's & AX's.

Will they be allowed to keep them in service for a little while longer while the NTA tries to sort out what had happened with recent orders with Wrights.

They may stay longer now if the NTA agree to extend the 14 year deadline.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I seen BBC Newsline reports this evening that there are still a small number of DB SG's still parked in the Wrights factory car park. Is their any word on current orders being fulfilled for the NTA for any new buses arriving soon until they will get further word from Wrights on Wednesday?

A BE VWD was the last bus to get out. Other buses in there may or may not be released to the NTA depending on what happens next. SFAIK as I know they are not paid for until delivered so would not be liable to the NTA once gone into administration.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Do BÉ have any outstanding orders for new Streetlites to operate new local bus services in Navan town?

I think most if not all Streetlites have been delivered, but many DDs were still to be delivered.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

There is also the issue of GAI receiving 8 new DB SG's from the NTA this year because they somehow had a shortage of buses to operate their routes.

Were they in need of receiving any more new SG's from Wrights in future or was their new fleet order enough for the year?

150 buses were ordered this year, they couldn't add to the order if needed even if they wanted to as they have passed the diesel only cut off.

Heroditas · 27-09-2019 8:09pm

GM228 wrote: »

They were at research/experimental stages I believe, if only they had concentrated on green energy and not green pastures...

They were involved in a project to produce hydrogen powered buses for TransLink in Belfast.

GM228 · 27-09-2019 8:29pm

Heroditas wrote: »

They were involved in a project to produce hydrogen powered buses for TransLink in Belfast.

They produced a demo for Translink last year and next year were to produce 20 for TFL and 15 for First Aberdeen, don't think there were any further plans for Translink.

Heroditas · 27-09-2019 8:37pm

GM228 wrote: »

They produced a demo for Translink last year and next year were to produce 20 for TFL and 15 for First Aberdeen, don't think there were any further plans for Translink.

There were/are. It's part of an Interreg funded hydrogen project which also involved a hydrogen refueling station being constructed

PVNevin · 27-09-2019 9:53pm

The unions stop workers from organising.
The unions are in effect employment agencies for the employer.
Workers must set up their own rank-and-file committees to fight for their conditions and rights.
These committees must have nothing whatsoever to do with the union.
Workers are on one side. On the other are the employers, the state and the unions.

road_high · 27-09-2019 10:06pm

GM228 wrote: »

Wrightbus worker statement:-

https://twitter.com/vsirnate/status/1177599379445833729?s=19

On a separate note it's interesting to note that NI Water who are recruiting at the moment have specifically requested WB workers to send them their CVs.

No sane company is interested in some backwater located high cost low tech manufacturing set up with all the issues of Brexit, their 15th century religious bigotry issues. They’ll let it go tits up then pick over the carcass with the liquidators.

That’s where N Ireland is at alright- private sector wealth creating jobs vanishing with only sone state and local service ones

bk · 28-09-2019 10:42am

GM228 wrote: »

They may stay longer now if the NTA agree to extend the 14 year deadline.

I'd see no reason why they wouldn't. There is no law on how old buses can be, just that they are road worthy. It is more of a policy that both the NTA and DB/BE want to keep the fleet relatively young for reliability.

If it is a choice between keeping some buses a bit longer or not having enough to operate all services, it is an easy decision.

I do wonder if they have gotten a bit lucky with the timing here, that the previous DB orders had already largely been delivered and that they were gearing up for the next order of hybrids. Of course no one wanted this to happen, but the timing could have been much worse, say 2 years ago when they were expanding the fleet, etc.

GM228 wrote: »

A BE VWD was the last bus to get out. Other buses in there may or may not be released to the NTA depending on what happens next. SFAIK as I know they are not paid for until delivered so would not be liable to the NTA once gone into administration.

If they are done or very nearly complete. Perhaps the NTA can pick them up on the cheap from the administrator.

bk · 28-09-2019 10:59am

Reading another forum, it seems that a total of 621 SG's were supposed to be delivered. So far 601 have been delivered. So looks like DB/GA might be 20 SG's short. I'm not sure how true this is, just based on others comments.

A pity for DB/GA, but certainly not a major issue. I'm sure they can pick out 20 of the best quality older buses to hold onto for a bit longer and then increase the next hybrid order by 20.

devnull · 28-09-2019 11:08am

bk wrote: »

I do wonder if they have gotten a bit lucky with the timing here, that the previous DB orders had already largely been delivered and that they were gearing up for the next order of hybrids. Of course no one wanted this to happen, but the timing could have been much worse, say 2 years ago when they were expanding the fleet, etc.

Depends how you define lucky, sure it stops deliveries, but at the end of the day it would be worse if the NTA had ordered integral double deckers through Wright directly, but they haven't and their contract was with Volvo and therefore Volvo will need to sort this out and compensate the NTA or come up with a solution to this issue.

If they are done or very nearly complete. Perhaps the NTA can pick them up on the cheap from the administrator.

The NTA's contract isn't with Wrightbus for double deck vehicles, it is with Volvo and Wrightbus are merely a subcontractor to Volvo so I would assume that any unfinished vehicles built on Volvo chassis would probably be something that would be down to Volvo to sort out. The full service spares, warranty and maintenance contract for these is with Volvo too, with Wrightbus being the subcontractors for any work Volvo can't do directly.

The Streetlites caught up in this situation being a contract with Wrightbus however, would be a different kettle of fish completely and something they may well have to deal with the administrators about, although often vehicles are not paid for until they are delivered so if that is the case then the NTA simply won't pay for them.

GM228 · 28-09-2019 11:20am

Jeff Wright saying his family are receiving death threats now.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1177869905686863872?s=19

I think he may have bigger worries ahead if the financial affairs of Wrightbus and his other companies are investigated.

FrancieBrady · 28-09-2019 11:38am

GM228 wrote: »

Jeff Wright saying his family are receiving death threats now.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1177869905686863872?s=19

I think he may have bigger worries ahead if the financial affairs of Wrightbus and his other companies are investigated.

He has a fairly powerful 'shareholder' on his side though.

bk · 28-09-2019 12:46pm

Actually now that I think of it, will this hand AlexanderDennis the Hybrid contract?

Obviously the Wrightbus option is a non starter now (and it had issues with being a mild hybrid anyway). But I forgot that the Volvo entry was a Wright Gemini body on a Volvo B5LH! Obviously that isn't going to be a runner now either.

Perhaps Volvo can offer a B5LH with MCV or AD bodywork instead?

Though that might delay the hybrid order further.

dublinman1990 · 28-09-2019 10:49pm

bk wrote: »

Actually now that I think of it, will this hand AlexanderDennis the Hybrid contract?

Obviously the Wrightbus option is a non starter now (and it had issues with being a mild hybrid anyway). But I forgot that the Volvo entry was a Wright Gemini body on a Volvo B5LH! Obviously that isn't going to be a runner now either.

Perhaps Volvo can offer a B5LH with MCV or AD bodywork instead?

Though that might delay the hybrid order further.

A Volvo EvoSeti could be a great choice in a right-hand drive double deck fleet for Dublin Bus & Go-Ahead in future.

Has anyone been one of them with any of the British bus operators to see what they are like?

devnull · 28-09-2019 11:12pm

bk wrote: »

Actually now that I think of it, will this hand AlexanderDennis the Hybrid contract?

Perhaps Volvo can offer a B5LH with MCV or AD bodywork instead?

ADL are not keen to build on standard Volvo chassis these days as Volvo are a direct competitor but they are happy to build on Volvo Hybrid chassis and have done a number in London.

dublinman1990 wrote: »

A Volvo EvoSeti could be a great choice in a right-hand drive double deck fleet for Dublin Bus & Go-Ahead in future.

Question is would MCV have the capacity to be building a couple of hundred vehicles a year for the NTA, because that is what it would entail I would think.

bk · 29-09-2019 8:59pm

Yes, it seems like Volvo's tactic of partnering with body builders in the RHD market for buses is sort of falling apart now.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were one of the potential buyers for Wrights.

Perhaps Vovlo will buy and ramp up MCV or perhaps they will start making their own full buses for the RHD double deck market. It doesn't seem their current strategy can continue.

But all of that will take time. Unless MCV can scale up quickly, I'd assume ADL will get the hybrid bid by default.

FrancieBrady · 29-09-2019 9:03pm

bk wrote: »

Yes, it seems like Volvo's tactic of partnering with body builders in the RHD market for buses is sort of falling apart now.

I wouldn't be surprised if they were one of the potential buyers for Wrights.

Perhaps Vovlo will buy and ramp up MCV or perhaps they will start making their own full buses for the RHD double deck market. It doesn't seem their current strategy can continue.

But all of that will take time. Unless MCV can scale up quickly, I'd assume ADL will get the hybrid bid by default.

Would anyone buy it if it was outside the EU though?

Grab All Association · 29-09-2019 9:16pm

Those curious about MCV build quality can actually try it here. There’s a Bernard Kavanagh owned single deck 2019 Volvo MCV Evora on the Thurles-Newport-Limerick LocalLink. It’s really an awful bus to put on that road but when it’s in use Urban Thurles/Limerick it’s a grand bus to travel on. Windows and ceiling height are a lot higher than the wrights single decks in use limerick. Pity that road will absolutely destroy it in a few weeks. It’s what Local Link/NTA required in the tender though.
I believe J.J Kavanagh has two of these buses as well

https://twitter.com/locallinktipp/status/1175876713349353473?s=21

bk · 29-09-2019 10:02pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Would anyone buy it if it was outside the EU though?

True, but there would be some logic to it.

The point would be to gain the ability to build RHD double deckers. The majority of those are destined for the UK itself, followed by Honk Kong and Singapore, which are obviously also outside of the EU, so operating from a Brexit UK for them might actually suit.

That just leaves Ireland as the odd man out as the only RHD double decker market left in the EU!

Though the volatility of Sterling and other Brexit madness might make it a non starter as you say.

I suspect it is all the weirdness around donations to the church and the family links in the area that were probably the bigger issue then even Brexit.

devnull · 29-09-2019 10:29pm

bk wrote: »

I suspect it is all the weirdness around donations to the church and the family links in the area that were probably the bigger issue then even Brexit.

They also didn't want to sell the land that the factory was on, they wanted to lease it to those who bought Wrightbus up for what is believed to be around £1m or so a year, although I've heard bigger amounts being mentioned as well.

That is apparently why some buyers lost interest.

FrancieBrady · 29-09-2019 10:36pm

bk wrote: »

True, but there would be some logic to it.

The point would be to gain the ability to build RHD double deckers. The majority of those are destined for the UK itself, followed by Honk Kong and Singapore, which are obviously also outside of the EU, so operating from a Brexit UK for them might actually suit.

That just leaves Ireland as the odd man out as the only RHD double decker market left in the EU!

Though the volatility of Sterling and other Brexit madness might make it a non starter as you say.

I suspect it is all the weirdness around donations to the church and the family links in the area that were probably the bigger issue then even Brexit.

If they are sustainable outside the EU seems an awful shame to see them go. Sounds like they turned out good product and only for mismanagement wouldn't be in bother.

03-10-2019 12:07am

Years of paying union subs was sure worthwhile to these workers

dashcamdanny · 03-10-2019 1:37pm

salonfire wrote: »

Years of paying union subs was sure worthwhile to these workers

Yes it was. It kept their conditions and pay and a good level.

However , Unfortunately the union cant stop the management from making a complete balls up of the operation.

03-10-2019 1:40pm

dashcamdanny wrote: »

Yes it was. It kept their conditions and pay and a good level.

However , Unfortunately the union cant stop the management from making a complete balls up of the operation.

Really? Still out of a job aren't they?

Those union subs might be of more use in their own bank accounts right about now.

GM228 · 03-10-2019 3:47pm

salonfire wrote: »

Really? Still out of a job aren't they?

Those union subs might be of more use in their own bank accounts right about now.

I'm not sure what the point is, as already pointed out a union couldn't stop the bad management and mismanagement of funds.

Assuming a worker was paying the max £3.65 weekly sub what use would that be to them today had they not been signed up? Do you think they would have put that into a special rainy day fund to save a wapping £189.80 per year?

GM228 · 03-10-2019 3:48pm

Rumours of four different potential buyers of Wrightbus. No details of who they may be or any likelihood of a takeover.

Lord Glentoran · 03-10-2019 4:14pm

salonfire wrote: »

Really? Still out of a job aren't they?

Those union subs might be of more use in their own bank accounts right about now.

Jesus wasn’t much use to them either.

PVNevin · 04-10-2019 9:41am

The issue of the unions is crucial.
Just as with workers throughout the world, workers are prevented by the unions from engaging in a battle for their conditions, pay, rights and jobs.
This society is divided into classes. There is an us and them; and the unions are decidedly on the side of 'them'. Not 'us'

Unions base their being on the workplace. On the relations between the workforce and the employers.
Their raison d'etre is to mange those relations.

In earlier eras, as capitalism expanded and grew, the unions were able to represent the needs of the workers. As capitalism has turned to crisis the unions can only continue to exist if they intervene on the side of the employer.

The issue of union subs is significant. Not only because workers wages are at poverty or near-poverty levels.
In paying a sub a worker is psychologically committing to the union. Nearly always, in wildcat struggles, and in day-to-day battles to survive, workers complain bitterly about paying subs to the union that works against them.
This expresses the pressure on workers to take the logical step and break from the unions completely. And set up their own rank-and-file committees.

Workers protest closure of Wrightbus in Northern Ireland
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/10/03/wrig-o03.html

Why are unions hostile to socialism?
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/28/matu-s28.html

GM228 · 09-10-2019 1:16pm

Looks like there may be hope for Wrightbus with Jo Bamford looking at buying the company.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-49987068

Prior to their collapse he was in a joint bid with Weichai to take over the company, but they pulled out, presumably due to the land rent and property ownership issue and it looks like it may be problematic again.

devnull · 09-10-2019 1:20pm

GM228 wrote: »

Looks like there may be hope for Wrightbus with Jo Bamford looking at buying the company.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-49987068

Prior to their collapse he was in a joint bid with Weichai to take over the company, but they pulled out, presumably due to the land rent and property ownership issue and it looks like it may be problematic again.

Seems that Jeff Wright really don't want to part with the land.

You can see why bidders are apprehensive with that set-up.

trellheim · 09-10-2019 1:22pm

split the church out transfer the factory land for a quid ....

09-10-2019 10:34pm

BBC newsline reporting a deadline tomorrow morning for the Bamford deal or Wrightbus goes into liquidation.

All the pressure is on the pastor.

devnull · 09-10-2019 10:43pm

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

BBC newsline reporting a deadline tomorrow morning for the Bamford deal or Wrightbus goes into liquidation.

All the pressure is on the pastor.

We'll soon see where Jeff Wright's priorities lay.

Wrightbus in administration

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