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Private landlords leaving the market is the number one reason for homelessness

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Comments

  • #102
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Exactly, that is why renting makes better use of the available space. Iff I was renting a car I would hire the car of the size sufficient for the purpose for which I wanted it, no bigger. If I buy a car I would buy for the maximum which I anticipate I would need. the result is my motoring is less efficient than if I was renting cars serially.

    Except that renting a car is more expensive if you are doing it short blocks like that. So it doesn't make economic sense.

    So it's only efficient if you take one metric in isolation. Which is completely unrealistic.


  • #103
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    beauf wrote: »
    Except that renting a car is more expensive if you are doing it short blocks like that. So it doesn't make economic sense.

    So it's only efficient if you take one metric in isolation. Which is completely unrealistic.

    This is a discussion about housing so I am not going into the economic of hiring cars. The overall point is that people generally only rent as much as will do the job in hand, people who own often have excess capacity. Cutting down the renatl supply causes inefficiency in the allocation of resources.


  • #104
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭the-island-man


    Cal4567 wrote: »
    Being a landlord is a business, not a hobby. Why should the State protect your investment?

    I wish it were a business, then I'd be only paying 12.5% tax. unless it is a REIT or someone with a large enough property portfolio to justify setting up a real estate company for most private landlords their rental income falls under income taxation.

    So by your logic why would the government provide any social protection for anyone who earns an income?


  • #105
    Dav13579
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Dav13579


    Edited. Too much info :)

    I will never rent it out again. It will either stay short term or it will be sold. At the moment there is a lot of money tied up in it but the sort term is very lucrative so is worth doing for now.

    This is just to point out how I thought I was on the pigs back, but I was carrying far too much risk and tax for the amount sunk into it.
    I would advise all landlords to go to a financial advisor and go through everything because you may not see the wood for the trees yourself.
    Get it done out in cold hard facts and figures.
    One thing is for sure it is just progressively getting worse for landlords.


  • #106
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    This is a discussion about housing so I am not going into the economic of hiring cars. The overall point is that people generally only rent as much as will do the job in hand, people who own often have excess capacity. Cutting down the renatl supply causes inefficiency in the allocation of resources.

    What's to stop people renting (or buying) a much bigger place than they need, or what they expect they might need.


  • #107
    Dav13579
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Dav13579


    beauf wrote: »
    What's to stop people renting (or buying) a much bigger place than they need, or what they expect they might need.

    He is right. Noone rents bigger than they need.
    But in general people buy bigger than they need.


  • #108
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Dav13579 wrote: »
    He is right. Noone rents bigger than they need.
    But in general people buy bigger than they need.

    Why not .. That was my question...


  • #109
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    beauf wrote: »
    What's to stop people renting (or buying) a much bigger place than they need, or what they expect they might need.

    There is nothing to stop them, but as Karl Deeter points out, hardly anyone does.


  • #110
    Dav13579
    Registered Users Posts: 19 ✭Dav13579


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There is nothing to stop them, but as Karl Deeter points out, hardly anyone does.

    Ive never seen it anyway. Ever. Unless iots a company renting for someone.


  • #111
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There is nothing to stop them, but as Karl Deeter points out, hardly anyone does.

    If you were to look at the space efficiency of rental properties against incomes there would be a distinct relationship. Say a single people earning 10k pa vs 100k pa.


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  • #112
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    beauf wrote: »
    If you were to look at the space efficiency of rental properties against incomes there would be a distinct relationship. Say a single people earning 10k pa vs 100k pa.

    Stop grasping at straws.


  • #113
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Taken to it's logical conclusion we should encourage overcrowding. It's more space efficient in times of housing crisis.

    https://lovindublin.com/dublin/7-of-the-most-gorgeous-apartments-you-could-rent-in-dublin


  • #114
    pwurple
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,449 ✭✭✭✭pwurple


    Under occupancy here is precisely because of our high owner occupancy. The traditional set up is to buy a house as a couple with 3 or 4 bedrooms and under-occupy it.

    Over time, have two children, who move out and under occupy their own place somewhere else. Their childhood bedroom is left, unoccupied as a shrine, until the parents shuffle on to one of them passing away, or maybe into a nursing home... Once they are both gone, probate and repurposing the house takes another number of years.

    Over the 60 or 70 years of living in the 4 bed house, it is used to capacity for maybe 18 of those.


  • #115
    Cal4567
    Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There is nothing to stop them, but as Karl Deeter points out, hardly anyone does.

    And with more people renting over buying and that trend set to continue, we have little need for anymore 4 bed houses. Do we have enough already?


  • #116
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Cal4567 wrote: »
    And with more people renting over buying and that trend set to continue, we have little need for anymore 4 bed houses. Do we have enough already?

    Why do people keep saying that. Is it because people don't want them, it because they are unaffordable.

    If you are buying buy to let there are advantages to buying a house versus an apartment.

    Last time we built loads of tiny apartments we ended up regretting it later.


  • #117
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    It's pretty widely accepted that the demand for smaller housing units (including apartments) is being unmet.

    That's not likely to change given current building patterns and the increasing number of smaller households.


  • #118
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Graham wrote: »
    It's pretty widely accepted that the demand for smaller housing units (including apartments) is being unmet.

    That's not likely to change given current building patterns and the increasing number of smaller households.

    The demand for all different types of housing is not being met. It would be interesting to see the origin and breakdown of this demand. If we don't understand the demand how can we meet it's needs.


  • #119
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    beauf wrote: »
    The demand for all different types of housing is not being met. It would be interesting to see the origin and breakdown of this demand. If we don't understand the demand how can we meet it's needs.

    There is plenty of Student Housing being built to the point that supply has begun to saturate the market.


  • #120
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    There is plenty of Student Housing being built to the point that supply has begun to saturate the market.
    Where is this happening?


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  • #121
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Where is this happening?

    In Dublin. Prices for the next academic year are below this years.


  • #122
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    In Dublin. Prices for the next academic year are below this years.
    No harm in that. They also have a very large language learning sector they can tap into outside of the academic.


  • #123
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    In Dublin. Prices for the next academic year are below this years.

    Some good news at last.

    Did anyone else hear the ad for student accomodation on the radio for "only 250 euro a week".
    They must be struggling to shift it to have to run radio ads?


  • #124
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Topgear on Dave wrote: »
    Some good news at last.

    Did anyone else hear the ad for student accomodation on the radio for "only 250 euro a week".
    They must be struggling to shift it to have to run radio ads?

    You can be damn sure they are struggling. What other landlord has to pay for advertising?


  • #125
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Where is this happening?

    I’m in D7 and two massive student apartment complexes opened last September to serve DIT. Owned by two different companies and one of the complexes isn’t even near half occupied.

    How or what the plans are for these apartments during the summer months is beyond me. Seems like a huge loss making endeavour.


  • #126
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    Dav13579 wrote: »
    He is right. Noone rents bigger than they need.
    But in general people buy bigger than they need.

    I have done as there is so little available. Penultimate rental was a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom. before that a 2 bedroom, before that a 2 bedroom etc


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  • #127
    TSQ
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭TSQ


    Is it true that the rental period for the creation of a Part 4 Tenancy has been reduced to 2 months? Find it hard to believe but read it on another thread, but with no link to the relevant legislation was given. That, if true, will be the final straw for small landlords.


  • #128
    Busterie
    Registered Users Posts: 62 ✭✭Busterie


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Do you not see that owner occupiers had to live somewhere before buying? What’s happened to that property now? Are you suggesting that it’s lying idle?
    They are mostly people who have been living with their parents or sharing an apartment or house. No additional space is freed up.


  • #129
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    TSQ wrote: »
    Is it true that the rental period for the creation of a Part 4 Tenancy has been reduced to 2 months? Find it hard to believe but read it on another thread, but with no link to the relevant legislation was given. That, if true, will be the final straw for small landlords.

    What other thread?


  • #130
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    You can be damn sure they are struggling. What other landlord has to pay for advertising?

    If they can pay for radio ads they aren't struggling. More like they are too expensive as bespoke student abomination usually it's.

    You often see properties to rent or for sale left empty for very long periods because they are unwilling to drop the prices. We also had this with commercial upward only rent reviews.


  • #131
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    beauf wrote: »
    If they can pay for radio ads they aren't struggling. More like they are too expensive as bespoke student abomination usually it's.

    You often see properties to rent or for sale left empty for very long periods because they are unwilling to drop the prices. We also had this with commercial upward only rent reviews.


    *just to add to my post above as it’s relevant. The student apartment complexes gone up beside me are super swanky and weirdly or not, almost entirely inhabited by foreign students.
    Haven’t seen or encountered one Irish occupant to date.


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  • #132
    Grumpypants
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,929 ✭✭✭Grumpypants


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    I’m in D7 and two massive student apartment complexes opened last September to serve DIT. Owned by two different companies and one of the complexes isn’t even near half occupied.

    How or what the plans are for these apartments during the summer months is beyond me. Seems like a huge loss making endeavour.

    These are usually 4 bedroom apartments. So 4-5k a month when full. For the term. Then the summer they do short term lets normally to foreign students here to learn English.


  • #133
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 11,067 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    *just to add to my post above as it’s relevant. The student apartment complexes gone up beside me are super swanky and weirdly or not, almost entirely inhabited by foreign students.
    Haven’t seen or encountered one Irish occupant to date.

    Now or just the college term. As now that is not surprising many places have courses for foreign students


  • #134
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    martingriff wrote: »
    Now or just the college term. As now that is not surprising many places have courses for foreign students

    All year since it’s opened. Last September I believe. It’s on grangegorman lower both of them. It’s mostly Americans/north Americans and Middle Eastern students.
    It’s fancy AF so I get why it’s so expensive but there’s no Irish students in there at all, so it’s kind of a myth that these complexes will help relieve the rental market and open up supply.

    €250. A week.

    Who can afford that?


  • #135
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    I think it's all year though. a lot of foreign students are far wealthier than Irish students. So are looking for something more up market.


  • #136
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    ...so it’s kind of a myth that these complexes will help relieve the rental market and open up supply.
    ..

    I don't think many believed they would.


  • #137
    Blueshoe
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,964 ✭✭✭Blueshoe


    Scathing UN report on the Irish governments housing policy has been well buried .
    The journal.ie had a piece about it and apart from the heading the entire text was about how the Government are supposedly countering what was written in the report.
    Might as well have come from the fine Gael press office

    A disgrace


  • #138
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    beauf wrote: »
    I don't think many believed they would.

    Clearly someone did. Planning and up to Nama/Leo.

    Will you see these being sold back to the state at some point if they don’t work out and aren’t profitable?


  • #139
    sunnysoutheast
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,072 ✭✭✭sunnysoutheast


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    All year since it’s opened. Last September I believe. It’s on grangegorman lower both of them. It’s mostly Americans/north Americans and Middle Eastern students.
    It’s fancy AF so I get why it’s so expensive but there’s no Irish students in there at all, so it’s kind of a myth that these complexes will help relieve the rental market and open up supply.

    €250. A week.

    Who can afford that?

    Some of the accommodation at the colleges my daughter was looking at was 12-14k a year.


  • #140
    Stop moaning ffs
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,850 ✭✭✭Stop moaning ffs


    sunnysoutheast wrote: »
    Some of the accommodation at the colleges my daughter was looking at was 12-14k a year.

    That’s obscene.


  • #141
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    sunnysoutheast wrote:
    Some of the accommodation at the colleges my daughter was looking at was 12-14k a year.


    Is that for a 9 or 12 month period and tell use what college.


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  • #142
    TSQ
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭TSQ


    beauf wrote: »
    What other thread?

    I’ll try to find the post again and link it


  • #143
    TSQ
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭TSQ


    TSQ wrote: »
    I’ll try to find the post again and link it

    Here it is.. part 4 tenancy created after 2 months renting. Not sure if I believe it though as have not seen any other posts remarking on it.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=110446410


  • #144
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    Clearly someone did. Planning and up to Nama/Leo.

    Will you see these being sold back to the state at some point if they don’t work out and aren’t profitable?

    We've had bespoke student accommodation for many decades in large universities and colleges and demand has always exceed supply. It's a Global market more than ever and there is no shortage and never has been of foreign students with the resources far in excess of the indigenous student population. Ireland is a dramatically different place than it was even 10yrs ago.

    I can't see these failing over the long term. If the original owners spent to much they will just be replaced by sometimes else.


  • #145
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 11,067 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    Stop moaning ffs wrote: »
    All year since it’s opened. Last September I believe. It’s on grangegorman lower both of them. It’s mostly Americans/north Americans and Middle Eastern students.
    It’s fancy AF so I get why it’s so expensive but there’s no Irish students in there at all, so it’s kind of a myth that these complexes will help relieve the rental market and open up supply.

    €250. A week.

    Who can afford that?

    While I agree a bit expensive do not forget that also includes gas, electricity, bins and broadband. Will it does in the student accommodation I limerick


  • #146
    appledrop
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,049 ✭✭✭appledrop


    We were 'accidental' landlords and got out this year. Our tenants couldn't afford to buy in Dublin so bought outside instead. Thankfully this meant we didn't have to let them go. They were excellent tenants but with all the taxes, rules for landlords we wanted to get out. There is no incentive to stay. We never increased their rent in 5 years and actually made a loss each month after mortgage + tax is paid not that you would know it according to media.

    Not all landlords are out to fleece people but that seems to be government approach. It's coming back to bite them now as landlords have had enough + are selling up.


  • #147
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    beauf wrote: »
    If they can pay for radio ads they aren't struggling. More like they are too expensive as bespoke student abomination usually it's.

    You often see properties to rent or for sale left empty for very long periods because they are unwilling to drop the prices. We also had this with commercial upward only rent reviews.

    They are struggling to fill them. A flat in Rathmines for students could be let with a postcard ad in a shop window in a few hours. Advertising on radio costs money.The operators of that accommodation are not in the business of spending money if they don't have to. More student blocks are under construction so if the existing units have to be advertised on radion the anecdotal reports of falling rents are correct and the charges will have to fall.


  • #148
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    They are struggling to fill them. A flat in Rathmines for students could be let with a postcard ad in a shop window in a few hours. Advertising on radio costs money.The operators of that accommodation are not in the business of spending money if they don't have to. More student blocks are under construction so if the existing units have to be advertised on radion the anecdotal reports of falling rents are correct and the charges will have to fall.


    I expect the one in Rathmines would be a lot cheaper?

    I wonder is it a tactic to change their use? Make out they can't sell them.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/calls-for-stronger-guidelines-to-halt-student-accommodation-being-turned-into-coliving-spaces-38228334.html


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