Some urgent advice appreciated

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 10:48am #1

Any help would be appreciated - I just need to get a steer and then I’ll take over the research myself once I can cut through some of the ‘fog’

I have a relative living in a flat. The flat is, like other in the area, a repurposed Victorian type dwelling split into about 6 or 7 units. He (my relative) has been informed by the landlord that he has to vacate his place (on the ground floor) for a month as he, the landlord, needs to do some work on the foundations. No other tenant has been asked to move.

The landlord has said he will store any stuff he can’t move during the works.

All this information has been verbal and no written notice of intention to do this work between him and the landlord.

Relative has been there for just over 7 years – my basic questions:

Is there a notice period the landlord must give the relative as to his intention to do this work?

On completion, what are the relative’s rights to return

Any steer to information would be really appreciated as the landlord is pressuring the relative to vacate

12-06-2019 11:23am

Does the landlord also live in one of the units?

thomas 123 · 12-06-2019 11:29am

Is the LL going to pay for the cost of accommodation while your uncle is forced to move out?

The skeptic in me would say he will either;

A) Rise the rent when your uncle can move back in, under the guise of significant renovation.

B)A long lost cousin of the landlord will come back from Bosnia and need the place for a few weeks, he will then up the rent or sell.

C) The LL is lining up to sell the block and truly needs the foundations sorted. - but your uncle will have n house either way.

Contact https://www.threshold.ie/ right away and let them know, they are excellent for advice like this.

thomas 123 · 12-06-2019 11:33am

Just to add, the landlord could truly be sound, and really need to get the work done, but speak to the experts at threshold to ensure your uncle doesn't get ripped off.

Askthe EA · 12-06-2019 11:50am

The landlord isnt doing works to the property that would constitute a significant change so there wont be an impact on the rent.

The fact that its just your uncles unit (ground floor) that needs work and the fact that he says its foundation related also tallies.

Hes offering to store stuff, this sounds like a LL who actually cares and is expecting your uncle to return.

I would request it in writing however, just so timeframes are clearly stated.

Where will your uncle go for a month?

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 11:58am

thomas 123 wrote: »

Is the LL going to pay for the cost of accommodation while your uncle is forced to move out?

No suggestion of that at all - I think its fend for himself

The LL does not live in the same premises.

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 11:59am

Askthe EA wrote: »

Where will your uncle go for a month?

Therin lies another problem!

Ray Palmer · 12-06-2019 11:59am

thomas 123 wrote: »

Is the LL going to pay for the cost of accommodation while your uncle is forced to move out?

The skeptic in me would say he will either;

A) Rise the rent when your uncle can move back in, under the guise of significant renovation.

B)A long lost cousin of the landlord will come back from Bosnia and need the place for a few weeks, he will then up the rent or sell.

C) The LL is lining up to sell the block and truly needs the foundations sorted. - but your uncle will have n house either way.

Contact https://www.threshold.ie/ right away and let them know, they are excellent for advice like this.

To clarify
A) Can't do that as this would be maintenance and repair

Can't do that has to immediate family member
C)It is stated as one property not a block and regular eviction notice rules apply.

OP

Citizens information give notice periods. The main issue is if the repair work is vital and not doing it poses a risk. In that case the tenant can be moved out quickly. If as appears the landlord us not evicting him just needs to get the work done any arrangement can be made with the landlord. Failing that the rules are all on citizens advice.

Phileas Frog · 12-06-2019 12:01pm

IRE60 wrote: »

No suggestion of that at all - I think its fend for himself.

Other than, I presume, not pay rent for that month?

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 12:04pm

Phileas Frog wrote: »

Other than, I presume, not pay rent for that month?

The conversation (and nothing on paper/email) has been vague. The LL has not mention the payment/non payment of rent.

Del2005 · 12-06-2019 12:05pm

thomas 123 wrote: »

Just to add, the landlord could truly be sound, and really need to get the work done, but speak to the experts at threshold to ensure your uncle doesn't get ripped off.

Threshold and experts do not go in the same sentence. They will tell him to overhold, while the building collapses around him.

thomas 123 · 12-06-2019 12:23pm

Del2005 wrote: »

Threshold and experts do not go in the same sentence. They will tell him to overhold, while the building collapses around him.

Its good to know your rights and options. Asides from citizens information (Who are also great) not many other organisations you can talk with.

Del2005 · 12-06-2019 12:57pm

thomas 123 wrote: »

Its good to know your rights and options. Asides from citizens information (Who are also great) not many other organisations you can talk with.

They don't advise you on your rights. They advise you to break the law as there is no consequence for them.

reg114 · 12-06-2019 12:58pm

IRE60 wrote: »

Any help would be appreciated - I just need to get a steer and then I’ll take over the research myself once I can cut through some of the ‘fog’

I have a relative living in a flat. The flat is, like other in the area, a repurposed Victorian type dwelling split into about 6 or 7 units. He (my relative) has been informed by the landlord that he has to vacate his place (on the ground floor) for a month as he, the landlord, needs to do some work on the foundations. No other tenant has been asked to move.

The landlord has said he will store any stuff he can’t move during the works.

All this information has been verbal and no written notice of intention to do this work between him and the landlord.

Relative has been there for just over 7 years – my basic questions:

Is there a notice period the landlord must give the relative as to his intention to do this work?

On completion, what are the relative’s rights to return

Any steer to information would be really appreciated as the landlord is pressuring the relative to vacate

When has any building project ever come in on time, 1 month could very easily turn in to 3. So now your family member is discommoded for much longer than promised. Storing contents is a meagre proposal.

In truth the skeptic in me suggests that if this approach by the landlord was legitimate everything would have been in writing already and the landlord would have made provisions to find suitable short term accommodation for the tenant affected. I wouldnt budge an inch until everything was copper fastened by a legal professional. Id also request the quantity surveyors report upon which this sudden requirement for works on the foundations is based.

Foundations in any property and flaws therein would have ramifications for the whole building and its safety, all tenants should really be involved in this upheaval. Certainly every tenant should be informed in writing of major works being carried out on the building.

I'm afraid I smell a rat.

Askthe EA · 12-06-2019 1:03pm

reg114 wrote: »

When has any building project ever come in on time, 1 month could very easily turn in to 3. So now your family member is discommoded for much longer than promised. Storing contents is a meagre proposal.

In truth the skeptic in me suggests that if this approach by the landlord was legitimate everything would have been in writing already and the landlord would have made provisions to find suitable short term accommodation for the tenant affected. I wouldnt budge an inch until everything was copper fastened by a legal professional. Id also request the quantity surveyors report upon which this sudden requirement for works on the foundations is based.

Foundations in any property and flaws therein would have ramifications for the whole building and its safety, all tenants should really be involved in this upheaval. Certainly every tenant should be informed in writing of major works being carried out on the building.

I'm afraid I smell a rat.

Yikes, thats a hell of a leap you've made there friend.

Couple of simple examples of how you may well be incorrect;

subsidence - no need to disturb any other tenant
leaking underfloor pipes - no need to disturb any other tenant
rising damp - no need to disturb other tenants

Just because the other tenants werent asked to temporarily vacate doesnt mean that the LL hasnt given them the heads up.

The fact that the LL hasnt issued anything in writing could be because, as is common with these types of properties, the LL has had them for years, is older and is simply not up to date on the current requirements for papertrails etc.

It really sounds to me like he is being above board, buthey, Im making a leap too. We don't know.

Dav010 · 12-06-2019 1:15pm

The skeptics should also note, if the LL wanted the ops relative out, he only has to wait a couple of months to end the part 4 tenancy after the second 4 year cycle. So why bother doing the ground works unless it’s necessary?

Askthe EA · 12-06-2019 1:30pm

Dav010 wrote: »

The skeptics should also note, if the LL wanted the ops relative out, he only has to wait a couple of months to end the part 4 tenancy after the second 4 year cycle. So why bother doing the ground works unless it’s necessary?

Good point

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 6:16pm

Many thanks for al the replies. I was on to the RTB and they are keen to define the difference between Maintenance and refurbishment - a subtle but very telling point especially when it comes to, if it were the case, returning to the flat. If it were simple maintenance in the eyes of the RTB then any rent increase is not justified. If its a refurb then that's a different matter (according to them).

Just before I depart, can anyone wise advise if it is 'maintenance' and the LL says he can move in again after - does the LL have to give a specific time notice before asking to vacate?

Thanks.

the_syco · 12-06-2019 7:33pm

IRE60 wrote: »

All this information has been verbal and no written notice of intention to do this work between him and the landlord.

If he won't put it i writing, I'd wonder wtf. It looks legit apart from that.

Ask your relative how is the LL apart from this? Does he fix things, or is he a PITA to deal with?

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 7:48pm

the_syco wrote: »

If he won't put it i writing, I'd wonder wtf. It looks legit apart from that.

Ask your relative how is the LL apart from this? Does he fix things, or is he a PITA to deal with?

1000% PITA - fixes as little as possible 'difficult gentleman' thus the suspicion that if he leave the door will slam shut behind him.

Dav010 · 12-06-2019 7:55pm

IRE60 wrote: »

1000% PITA - fixes as little as possible 'difficult gentleman' thus the suspicion that if he leave the door will slam shut behind him.

As I posted earlier OP, if the Landlord wants him out, he is legally entitled to do so at the end of the current/second Part 4 cycle which ends after 8 years. The LL would not need to go through the hassle of “slamming” the door behind him after the maintenance/refurbishment, he could just give the required notice that a further Part 4 tenancy is being denied.

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 7:59pm

Dav010 wrote: »

As I posted earlier OP, if the Landlord wants him out, he is legally entitled to do so at the end of the current/second Part 4 cycle which ends after 8 years. The LL would not need to go through the hassle of “slamming” the door behind him after the maintenance/refurbishment, he could just give the required notice that a further Part 4 tenancy is being denied.

Dav....

I appreciate the post and saw that earlier. I get the impression that the LL is an impetious character. Year 8 is (I think) April 2020.

Dav010 · 12-06-2019 8:11pm

IRE60 wrote: »

Dav....

I appreciate the post and saw that earlier. I get the impression that the LL is an impetious character. Year 8 is (I think) April 2020.

Then the LL only has a couple of months to wait until he gives the required 196 days notice, if he wants the tenant out. Much easier than risking a dispute.

Lantus · 12-06-2019 8:14pm

How many apartments / tenants are on the ground floor.

You don't just do stuff to a foundation unless there is a major building issue. You don't generally access a foundation from inside through the slab and radon barrier. You dig outside to prop or support as required.

If inside its a massively destructive and messy process.

I'd advise caution. You would think the landlord would have heaps to say on such sn expensive issue as to why and how??!

We need to fix the foundation sounds like cleaning the oven.

No inspections made in the property? No cracked walls or noticeable structural problems.

Come on......

IRE60 · 12-06-2019 8:14pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Then the LL only has a couple of months to wait until he gives the required 196 days notice, if he wants the tenant out. Much easier than risking a dispute.

I see your thinking - not sure LL is on the same page!!

Graces7 · 14-06-2019 7:03pm

Del2005 wrote: »

They don't advise you on your rights. They advise you to break the law as there is no consequence for them.

That is not true. I have had frequent and helpful support and info from Threshold on several occasions and they were always punctilious about the law, and no such behaviour as you wrongly allege

the_syco · 14-06-2019 7:25pm

Graces7 wrote: »

That is not true. I have had frequent and helpful support and info from Threshold on several occasions and they were always punctilious about the law, and no such behaviour as you wrongly allege

Are you a lawyer? How do you know that their advice is legal?

Graces7 · 15-06-2019 10:38am

the_syco wrote: »

Are you a lawyer? How do you know that their advice is legal?

because,.... they quote the actual laws! I mean it is not rocket science. :eek::D:rolleyes:

Some urgent advice appreciated

Comments