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Tenants Deposit

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  • 03-06-2020 3:42pm
    #1
    jack842
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭


    A Tenant was renting a property i own for 12 months last year, they signed a second 12 month lease in Jan this year. Then due to personal issues they gave 30 days notice in March that they were leaving and moved out end of April.


    Obviously with this happening in the middle of the lockdown we haven't been able to re-let the house and it's still currently empty.

    Would we be entitled to retain the tenants deposit as they broke a fixed term lease?



    Thanks


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    #2
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    If they signed a new fixed term lease- and ended the tenancy before the end of the lease, without attempting to assign the lease to a third party (which they are entitled to do)- then they remain liable to pay the rent to the end of the fixed term lease. It is up to you to make every reasonable attempt to let the property as expeditiously as possible. In the context of the current pandemic- it may not be possible to let the property immediately. The tenant remains liable for the rent until such time that it is relet. So tough luck to the tenant- they could have gotten away with just giving you valid notice, had they not signed a subsequent fixed term lease..........

    Its entirely possible that they may owe you a not insignificant sum of money in addition to the deposit.


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    #3
    jack842
    Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭jack842


    Thanks. That's what i thought. Just wanted to confirm.

    Not really interested in chasing them up for the remainder of the lease.


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    #4
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    jack842 wrote: »
    Thanks. That's what i thought. Just wanted to confirm.

    Not really interested in chasing them up for the remainder of the lease.

    Practically speaking, you would have little chance of getting any rent from them via the RTB if they vacated without any arrears. The obligation to mitigate your loss doesn't mean you need to try to get another tenant at the same rental rate, you would need to show that you couldn't get any tenant even with rental reductions. In a housing crisis, your chances of proving that are slim and trying to push covid opportunity losses onto your departed tenant would also be difficult to say the least.

    Without receiving the valid 30 day notice, you could retain the deposit, I don't note any issue here at a high level. If the tenant tried to argue for its return you should have solid ground to stand firm.


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    #5
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    jack842 wrote: »
    A Tenant was renting a property i own for 12 months last year, they signed a second 12 month lease in Jan this year. Then due to personal issues they gave 30 days notice in March that they were leaving and moved out end of April.


    Obviously with this happening in the middle of the lockdown we haven't been able to re-let the house and it's still currently empty.

    Would we be entitled to retain the tenants deposit as they broke a fixed term lease?



    Thanks

    Have you accepted the keys back? Have you issued a notice of rent arrears?
    If the answers are yes and no, you will have trouble.


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    #6
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    Have you accepted the keys back? Have you issued a notice of rent arrears?
    If the answers are yes and no, you will have trouble.

    Trouble you say?

    Maybe, if you ignore the fact that the tenant had a term contract which they didn’t assign, and didn't even give the minimum statutory notice for a +1yr tenancy.


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    #7
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Trouble you say?

    Maybe, if you ignore the fact that the tenant had a term contract which they didn’t assign, and didn't even give the minimum statutory notice for a +1yr tenancy.

    The RTB is quite likely to ignore all that. Keys accepted back, tenancy ended by mutual agreement. No outstanding arrears at that time to justify retaining the deposit. i can see how it won't end well for the o/p.


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    #8
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    The RTB is quite likely to ignore all that. Keys accepted back, tenancy ended by mutual agreement. No outstanding arrears at that time to justify retaining the deposit. i can see how it won't end well for the o/p.

    I doubt the op agreed to ending the tenancy, nor the notice period less than the statutory minimum. You have been asked before to show an RTB ruling to support this, you couldn’t. In the ops case, the tenant had a fixed term and fecked off without assigning it, we also know that a deposit can be withheld to cover unpaid rent, so I’m not sure why you seem to think the op would be in trouble.


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    #9
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Dav010 wrote: »
    I doubt the op agreed to ending the tenancy, nor the notice period less than the statutory minimum. You have been asked before to show an RTB ruling to support this, you couldn’t. In the ops case, the tenant had a fixed term and fecked off without assigning it, we also know that a deposit can be withheld to cover unpaid rent, so I’m not sure why you seem to think the op would be in trouble.

    If there is unpaid rent, where is the demand? The o/p accepted back the keys ergo the tenancy is at an end. Where have you shown an RTB case showing a tenant had to pay up and lost their deposit?


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    #10
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    The o/p accepted back the keys ergo the tenancy is at an end.

    I would be interested in a link to the section in the RTA that suggests accepting keys = foregoing rights under the act (or a lease).

    (obviously I don't expect a link because the suggestion is just nonsense)


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    #11
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Graham wrote: »
    I would be interested in a link to the section in the RTA that suggests accepting keys = foregoing rights under the act (or a lease).

    (obviously I don't expect a link because the suggestion is just nonsense)

    I would be interested in a link showing that the RTA is a completely self contained piece of legislation governing all aspects of residential tenancies. (obviously I don't expect a link because the suggestion is just nonsense).


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    #12
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I would be interested in a link showing that the RTA is a completely self contained piece of legislation governing all aspects of residential tenancies. (obviously I don't expect a link because the suggestion is just nonsense).

    To follow your logic, I could keep a rental car longer than I paid for it, and the act if handing back the keys at the desk would wipe out all debt.

    OP.. this thread has reached absurdity. Keep the deposit. And open a case with the RTB for the remainder of the tenants obligations.


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    #13
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    I would be interested in a link showing that the RTA is a completely self contained piece of legislation governing all aspects of residential tenancies. (obviously I don't expect a link because the suggestion is just nonsense).


    Mod Note

    You've made an assertion, back it up with an authoritative source or drop it. Keep in mind previous warnings.


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    #14
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,163 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    Graham wrote: »
    Mod Note

    You've made an assertion, back it up with an authoritative source or drop it. Keep in mind previous warnings.
    This Supreme Court judge states that the RTA is not a completely self contained piece of legislation governing all aspects of residential tenancies.

    https://beta.courts.ie/view/judgments/9dcfb76e-b023-4b7f-9dfe-bfd8dbc6800c/716c4baa-bc8b-456e-abdf-2df949974e97/2020_IECA_54.pdf/pdf

    Any poster who can find a link to an RTB decision where a departing tenant was made to forfeit a deposit or giving less that the statutory notice should of course post a link.


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    #15
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Mod Note

    Claw Hammer, do not post in this thread again. Be warned you are on your last chance for dubious legal advice.

    If you find an authoritative source that confirms obligations end if keys are handed back, you can PM me or one of the other mods for the thread ban to be reconsidered.


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