Voicemail from Garda detective

S4albarn · 17-05-2020 4:10pm #1

Hi,

I received a voicemail message yesterday from a detective at my local Garda station saying he needed to speak to me. I tried return the call but he had gone home and I was given a time to call up again. His colleague couldn't share the reason for the call.

The only interaction I have had with AGS was a couple of months back when I reported a financial scam to the GNECB. It seems strange that my local station would contact me in relation to this.

Would it be typical to phone a suspect in an investigation? I have nothing to hide unless it is related to an old traffic offence or something. But after reading horror stories online I am paranoid about incriminating myself in something completely unrelated to me if I call back.

Am I better off just leaving it or should I call him back?

Thanks,

S4

coylemj · 17-05-2020 4:57pm

S4albarn wrote: »

Would it be typical to phone a suspect in an investigation?

You reported a scam, how does that make you the suspect?

It's perfectly normal for a centralised bureau to ask one of the local team to follow up.

Samuel T. Cogley · 17-05-2020 5:09pm

The national bureaus don't deal with the general public. They will have referred it to the local Garda Station.

S4albarn · 17-05-2020 5:18pm

Ok thank you both. You answered exactly what I was looking for.

I wasn't implying that I was a suspect in the fraud case. I was just worried that this could be related to something other than my report to the GNECB.

unkel · 17-05-2020 5:22pm

Think back over the last day or two, could someone have reported you for your behaviour on the road? Maybe you (accidentally) cut someone off or didn't give them right of way?

Darc19 · 17-05-2020 5:26pm

unkel wrote: »

Think back over the last day or two, could someone have reported you for your behaviour on the road? Maybe you (accidentally) cut someone off or didn't give them right of way?

A detective would not be involved in such minor issue and with so little traffic on the road, highly unlikely.

Most likely (almost certainly) is as above, a follow through on the financial scam the op reported.

Gardai can be extremely slow following up on stuff

Bojill · 17-05-2020 5:29pm

unkel wrote: »

Think back over the last day or two, could someone have reported you for your behaviour on the road? Maybe you (accidentally) cut someone off or didn't give them right of way?

How would he have the mobile number?

S4albarn · 17-05-2020 5:31pm

unkel wrote: »

Think back over the last day or two, could someone have reported you for your behaviour on the road? Maybe you (accidentally) cut someone off or didn't give them right of way?

Seems unlikely. I've been a bad driver in the past but not in recent years and barely not during lockdown.

S4albarn · 17-05-2020 5:31pm

Darc19 wrote: »

A detective would not be involved in such minor issue and with so little traffic on the road, highly unlikely.

Most likely (almost certainly) is as above, a follow through on the financial scam the op reported.

Gardai can be extremely slow following up on stuff

Hopefully it's just that. I will call them back this evening when the detective is in.

coylemj · 17-05-2020 5:33pm

S4albarn wrote: »

I wasn't implying that I was a suspect in the fraud case. I was just worried that this could be related to something other than my report to the GNECB.

When the Gardai interview a suspect, they first issue the caution 'you are not obliged to say anything.....'

If that happens, decline to say anything. Otherwise, the detective will tell you that s/he is following up on your report. Which is far more likely.

S4albarn · 17-05-2020 5:34pm

coylemj wrote: »

When the Gardai interview a suspect, they first issue the caution 'you are not obliged to say anything.....'

If that happens, decline to say anything. Otherwise, the detective will tell you that s/he is following up on your report. Which is far more likely.

Thanks Coyle

kravmaga · 17-05-2020 5:50pm

@OP

How did the Garda Detective know your landline/ mobile number?

Darc19 · 17-05-2020 6:48pm

kravmaga wrote: »

@OP

How did the Garda Detective know your landline/ mobile number?

Read post 1

kravmaga · 17-05-2020 7:29pm

Darc19 wrote: »

Read post 1

?????

S4albarn · 17-05-2020 7:39pm

Hi guys, thanks for your responses.

I finally got through to the detective tonight and it was indeed related to my report about the scam.

I always irrationally fear the worst when it comes to the police despite never having any bad experiences.

Thanks again.

s1ippy · 17-05-2020 7:50pm

S4albarn wrote: »

I always irrationally fear the worst when it comes to the police despite never having any bad experiences.

Exactly the same with me. Probably sensible to tread carefully around people in positions of power. I've had absolutely nothing but fantastic experiences with Gardaí and one of my close friends is very senior member of AGS.

All it takes is one being an asshole to make your life a misery and from the stories I've heard, I'm going to keep exercising immense caution when dealing with them. The sound Garda lad I know would advise everyone the same thing. We're very lucky that they were transferred back closer to home just recently. It's quite valuable to know we have them in the back pocket of ever there were any "misunderstandings". There probably never will be though, law-abiding people have much less to fear from the law. But still, less doesn't mean "nothing".

Glad to hear it worked out alright OP.

TopTec · 18-05-2020 8:47am

s1ippy wrote: »

one of my close friends is very senior member of AGS.

We're very lucky that they were transferred back closer to home just recently. It's quite valuable to know we have them in the back pocket of ever there were any "misunderstandings". There probably never will be though, law-abiding people have much less to fear from the law. But still, less doesn't mean "nothing".

Unfortunate use of phrase! :rolleyes:
TT

Claw Hammer · 18-05-2020 9:48am

kravmaga wrote: »

?????

The o/p would have given contact details when making his report. Notwithstanding that, if the garda had identified the o/p through some other means, they would have been able to get his phone no. unless it is an unregistered mobile and even then it would have to have been recently acquired.

Rodin · 18-05-2020 9:51am

Darc19 wrote: »

A detective would not be involved in such minor issue and with so little traffic on the road, highly unlikely.

Most likely (almost certainly) is as above, a follow through on the financial scam the op reported.

Gardai can be extremely slow following up on stuff

Was once phoned up at 8am to be asked if I could be in court at 1000 as I was a witness...
No doubt the guy got off because the lazy witness had important duties at work that they couldn't shelve at 2hours notice.
Such incompetence.

Claw Hammer · 18-05-2020 12:43pm

Rodin wrote: »

Was once phoned up at 8am to be asked if I could be in court at 1000 as I was a witness...
No doubt the guy got off because the lazy witness had important duties at work that they couldn't shelve at 2hours notice.
Such incompetence.

More than likely he pleaded guilty at the last minute and you weren't needed anyway.

coylemj · 18-05-2020 5:25pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

More than likely he pleaded guilty at the last minute and you weren't needed anyway.

Yes, no doubt he scanned the courtroom, noted the absence of a critical prosecution witness.

And then pleaded guilty.

Claw Hammer · 19-05-2020 12:00pm

More tn likely in a crowded district Court where he didn't know who was there. if a witness was that important, the prosecution would seek to adjourn.

Mad_maxx · 20-05-2020 1:57pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

The national bureaus don't deal with the general public. They will have referred it to the local Garda Station.

the criminal assets bureaus do

AndrewJRenko · 25-05-2020 10:57am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The o/p would have given contact details when making his report. Notwithstanding that, if the garda had identified the o/p through some other means, they would have been able to get his phone no. unless it is an unregistered mobile and even then it would have to have been recently acquired.

How would Gardai know the ownership of an unregistered mobile that is not recently acquired? I know they could trace the phone's location by getting a Court order if they really needed to, but they don't have access to location information by default surely?

Claw Hammer · 25-05-2020 1:16pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

How would Gardai know the ownership of an unregistered mobile that is not recently acquired? I know they could trace the phone's location by getting a Court order if they really needed to, but they don't have access to location information by default surely?

The can trace an unregistered mobile within 2 or 3 weeks generally. They can work it out from other data they have access to.

ohnonotgmail · 25-05-2020 5:41pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The can trace an unregistered mobile within 2 or 3 weeks generally. They can work it out from other data they have access to.

the question was how could the gardai find the phone number for somebody. If the phone is not registered how can the phone be associated with a person. I could buy a PAYG phone tomorrow (well if the shops were open) and pay cash. are you telling me that if the gardai had my name and wanted to contact me they could find the number for that phone?

Claw Hammer · 26-05-2020 11:08am

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I could buy a PAYG phone tomorrow (well if the shops were open) and pay cash. are you telling me that if the gardai had my name and wanted to contact me they could find the number for that phone?

Yes. They have to do it all the time with drug dealers. It takes them 2 or 3 weeks on average.

Kenny Logins · 26-05-2020 11:15am

kravmaga wrote: »

@OP

How did the Garda Detective know your landline/ mobile number?

Is it not from the motor tax office or VRO if traffic/car related?

I had a puncture a few years back and had to dump the car (close to a bend). Got a call within about 30 minutes from the local Garda.

26-05-2020 11:22am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Yes. They have to do it all the time with drug dealers. It takes them 2 or 3 weeks on average.

I don't see how they could.

They could track the calls made etc and where the phone has been but without CCTV showing the guy using it I don't see how they can punch details into a computer somewhere and come up with someone's name for a PAYG phone paid for in cash.

It's just not possible technically. They can get it a roundabout way but not directly - unless you signed up to free credit or something, or paid for credit with a card in your name etc.

ohnonotgmail · 26-05-2020 12:27pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

Yes. They have to do it all the time with drug dealers. It takes them 2 or 3 weeks on average.

i really dont believe that. there would be no connection between me and the phone.

Peregrinus · 27-05-2020 1:21am

It doesn't normally require triangulation from phone masts, and matching those with your movements. Everyone you've ever called on the phone has the number of the phone, and most of them can potentially associate it with you, and of course most of us take no steps to keep our number secret - one of the points of having a phone is so that people can call you. Depending on how much you use the phone and what for, it may not require that much detection work to track down a number for you. Sometimes it's as simple as contacting one of your associates, asking for you and then saying "do you have a number where I can reach him?" Unless people think you are on the run or otherwise in need of protection, a lot of them will answer that question as helpfully as they can.

27-05-2020 3:40pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

More than likely he pleaded guilty at the last minute and you weren't needed anyway.

Or the evidence was agreed with the Defence (who knew the witness was available to come if necessary) without the need to call this witness, or indeed exactluy as you say, he/she pleaded guilty on the same basis.

Or he/she pleaded guilty despite not all witnesses being available, because that happens all the time too (non-availability of a witness often results in nothing more than an adjournment, which frequently won't suit an accused any more than any one else, and additional credit can be gained for pleading despite the case not being in a position to proceed - or at least the damage done by a late plea can be attenuated.

coylemj wrote: »

Yes, no doubt he scanned the courtroom, noted the absence of a critical prosecution witness.

And then pleaded guilty.

? I don't think you know anything at all about how it works.

kirving · 27-05-2020 4:59pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's just not possible technically. They can get it a roundabout way but not directly - unless you signed up to free credit or something, or paid for credit with a card in your name etc.

Depends on what you mean by "technically". A direct link on a database - no.

But, your phone can be triangulated with reasonable accuracy from cell towers alone. In the middle of a city, it might not be much use, but once you get out to a suburb the accuracy of triangulation can be good enough to get to a house.

Since they have your name and address, it's then a matter of listing all other phones which consistently connect you your local mast, and find the subset of these with no details registered.

Of that list, further downselection is tedious but easy, phones which are likely to be in you are based off signal strength, a phone which leaves the area when you do, a newly registered IMEI, calls to known associates, etc.

Obviously this level of effort is reserved for the most serious of cases, but it is doable.

As an aside, mobile phone companies here sell the same data, in anonymised form, for market research purposes.

AndrewJRenko · 02-06-2020 1:06pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

The can trace an unregistered mobile within 2 or 3 weeks generally. They can work it out from other data they have access to.

What other data are you talking about? Is this data available with Court Order or not?

Claw Hammer · 02-06-2020 4:40pm

AndrewJRenko · 02-06-2020 6:17pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

1

?

Darc19 · 02-06-2020 8:51pm

Bet the op regrets starting this thread

But I would agree that if the gardai wanted a number of someone under investigation they could get it within a couple of weeks, but they would need to know a few locations and precise times and look for the imei number that appears in all locations.

It's not easy, so would only be done if absolutely necessary.

Something similar was used in the murder enquiry down in Cork of the gardener Mikolaj Wilk

All "bounces" from the location were tracked both from the weeks before and weeks after and then cctv was checked.

This gave gardai the vital clues which identified the main people of interest, led to several arrests and they are now close to bringing serious charges that will also require deportations from Latvia and Poland

pixbyjohn · 02-06-2020 8:56pm

Thanks for letting us know the outcome

AndrewJRenko · 03-06-2020 7:41am

Darc19 wrote: »

Bet the op regrets starting this thread

But I would agree that if the gardai wanted a number of someone under investigation they could get it within a couple of weeks, but they would need to know a few locations and precise times and look for the imei number that appears in all locations.

It's not easy, so would only be done if absolutely necessary.

Something similar was used in the murder enquiry down in Cork of the gardener Mikolaj Wilk

All "bounces" from the location were tracked both from the weeks before and weeks after and then cctv was checked.

This gave gardai the vital clues which identified the main people of interest, led to several arrests and they are now close to bringing serious charges that will also require deportations from Latvia and Poland

This kind of investigation would require a Court order to get the required information from the phone companies, right? It's not something a Garda could decide to do off the top of their heads one morning.

RobbieMD · 03-06-2020 1:43pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This kind of investigation would require a Court order to get the required information from the phone companies, right? It's not something a Garda could decide to do off the top of their heads one morning.

Providers can give the information to Gardai without the necessity of a warrant. Section 41(b) of the data protection act 2018 allows providers to disclose data legally to Gardai.

It’s done all the time with CCTV by shops, forecourts etc when they hand over CCTV. I think they’re required to keep a register of requests and who they disclosed the data to.

Potential-Monke · 04-06-2020 6:39am

RobbieMD wrote: »

Providers can give the information to Gardai without the necessity of a warrant. Section 41(b) of the data protection act 2018 allows providers to disclose data legally to Gardai.

It’s done all the time with CCTV by shops, forecourts etc when they hand over CCTV. I think they’re required to keep a register of requests and who they disclosed the data to.

Pretty sure that only applies to viewing and requesting CCTV from a shop. And a lot of the bigger chains now have a centralised location to request CCTV from and it requires at the very least a headed letter request with the correct Data Protection Access wording quoted. Getting someones details from a service provider would require a proper court order. CCTV is generic in that regard, whereas personal information is a different game.

Claw Hammer · 04-06-2020 10:16am

Claw Hammer wrote: »

1

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

This kind of investigation would require a Court order to get the required information from the phone companies, right? It's not something a Garda could decide to do off the top of their heads one morning.

A chief superintendent or higher ranked member can request data from a service provider without the need for a court order.

ezra_ · 04-06-2020 2:18pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

A chief superintendent or higher ranked member can request data from a service provider without the need for a court order.

Did the Damache ruling impact that also?

angel eyes 2012 · 04-06-2020 7:41pm

RobbieMD wrote: »

Providers can give the information to Gardai without the necessity of a warrant. Section 41(b) of the data protection act 2018 allows providers to disclose data legally to Gardai.

It’s done all the time with CCTV by shops, forecourts etc when they hand over CCTV. I think they’re required to keep a register of requests and who they disclosed the data to.

It's Section 70(1) when investigating criminal offences. The Law Enforcement Directive (LED) deals with the processing of personal data where the processing is for ‘law enforcement purposes’ which fall outside the scope of the GDPR. Part 5 of the Data Protection Act sets out the LED.

Voicemail from Garda detective

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