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€300M Investment into Waterford City

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    #3272
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Michael Walsh is on WLR talking about this among other matters. Also makes the point the new bridge and other works recently green lit are NOT linked specifically to the NQP. It's associated, not dependant upon.
    That's all very well but local county councillors wont have any say when the budgets are done by the national politicians who are going to be facing a major down turn in the economy and will inevitably have cut back on expenditure. We saw exactly the same thing with the Engineering building in WIT back in 2011 , it was green lit and the tender was in its final stages and the plug was pulled because of the state of the economy.
    There is no reason to believe a new FF/FG government will treat Waterford any better that either of them have done over the last 10 years.And we wont have ministerial representation yet again now Halligan is gone ( and he didn't do much for the city over the last few years ) which sadly makes all the difference when it comes to investment especially when the money gets tight.


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    #3273
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    imacman wrote: »
    That's all very well but local county councillors wont have any say when the budgets are done by the national politicians who are going to be facing a major down turn in the economy and will inevitably have cut back on expenditure. We saw exactly the same thing with the Engineering building in WIT back in 2011 , it was green lit and the tender was in its final stages and the plug was pulled because of the state of the economy.
    There is no reason to believe a new FF/FG government will treat Waterford any better that either of them have done over the last 10 years.And we wont have ministerial representation yet again now Halligan is gone ( and he didn't do much for the city over the last few years ) which sadly makes all the difference when it comes to investment especially when the money gets tight.

    both have currently agreed, there wont be austerity, but i couldnt trust either of them. we desperately need major public spending, to kick things off, if it doesnt happen, we could be screwed for a very long time


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    #3274
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    imacman wrote: »
    That's all very well but local county councillors wont have any say when the budgets are done by the national politicians who are going to be facing a major down turn in the economy and will inevitably have cut back on expenditure. We saw exactly the same thing with the Engineering building in WIT back in 2011 , it was green lit and the tender was in its final stages and the plug was pulled because of the state of the economy.
    There is no reason to believe a new FF/FG government will treat Waterford any better that either of them have done over the last 10 years.And we wont have ministerial representation yet again now Halligan is gone ( and he didn't do much for the city over the last few years ) which sadly makes all the difference when it comes to investment especially when the money gets tight.

    Yes, I agree about the Engineering building in WIT. I don’t think that can happen in this case as the money has been signed of by the cabinet and it fits in nicely with the economic stimulus times we are going to be in. Also, think in WIT’s case there were aspirational parish pump politics at play as well. Don’t believe the state of the economy was the main motive behind pulling funding.


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    #3275
    AdMMM
    Registered Users Posts: 9,472 ✭✭✭AdMMM


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    both have currently agreed, there wont be austerity, but i couldnt trust either of them. we desperately need major public spending, to kick things off, if it doesnt happen, we could be screwed for a very long time
    If austerity was the way out of this, FF and FG wouldn't even entertain the idea of going into government together. That would destroy both parties. It'll be the opposite approach of the recession and FF, FG will adopt the more workable of SF policies to try absorb part of the centre-left SF vote.

    That doesn't really make much of a difference for the NQ development which I assume now is reliant on the retail sector recovering somewhat.


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    #3276
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,805 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    AdMMM wrote:
    If austerity was the way out of this, FF and FG wouldn't even entertain the idea of going into government together. That would destroy both parties. It'll be the opposite approach of the recession and FF, FG will adopt the more workable of SF policies to try absorb part of the centre-left SF vote.


    I actually agree here, I'm expecting both ffg to move to a more centrist, even slightly left to hoover up those votes, to try guarantee their dominance for as long as possible.

    Unfortunately I think retail is gonna take a pounding now


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    #3277
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    AdMMM wrote: »
    If austerity was the way out of this, FF and FG wouldn't even entertain the idea of going into government together. That would destroy both parties. It'll be the opposite approach of the recession and FF, FG will adopt the more workable of SF policies to try absorb part of the centre-left SF vote.

    That doesn't really make much of a difference for the NQ development which I assume now is reliant on the retail sector recovering somewhat.

    Yes retail is taking a taking hammering , Debenhams gone , Cath Kitson gone yesteday , Warehouse and Oasis filing for administration and expected to close at least half their stores , Topshop, Dorothy Perkins and Miss Selfridge looking at closing stores as well. Its going to be a different market this time next year with lots of empty units on high streets and shopping centers across the country.

    Does this affect the NQ, I dont know,it depends how important the retail element of the project is to the making the project viable.


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    #3278
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    imacman wrote: »
    Yes retail is taking a taking hammering , Debenhams gone , Cath Kitson gone yesteday , Warehouse and Oasis filing for administration and expected to close at least half their stores , Topshop, Dorothy Perkins and Miss Selfridge looking at closing stores as well. Its going to be a different market this time next year with lots of empty units on high streets and shopping centers across the country.

    Does this affect the NQ, I dont know,it depends how important the retail element of the project is to the making the project viable.

    In the NQ think the Michael St retail section will go ahead as is. However, suspect the NQ retail section may be reduced in favour of more offices. There seems to be good interest in the offices on the NQ.


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    #3279
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Different view on the city....

    https://twitter.com/RobCross247/status/1262109562720706560


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    #3280
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    Presenting this in the form of a long view perspective distorts the whole issue. It should be presented in the form of a normal map. It would be interesting to find out who has declared the red sites as derelict?


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    #3281
    imacman
    Registered Users Posts: 690 ✭✭✭imacman


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    Presenting this in the form of a long view perspective distorts the whole issue. It should be presented in the form of a normal map. It would be interesting to find out who has declared the red sites as derelict?

    Here is a 3d view
    https://twitter.com/i/status/1262105765797670915


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    #3282
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    If a site like the North Quays, or Michael Street is in planning can it really be classed as derelict? A little bit OTT, in my view.


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    #3283
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Different view on the city....

    https://twitter.com/RobCross247/status/1262109562720706560

    What about the proposed shopping centre on the airport road or the retail village on the old glass factory playing pitches that were blocked. The out-of-town shopping complexes allowed in Waterford have been pretty appropriate. The Bulterstown retail park was given permission by Waterford County Council not Waterford City Council as they were separate at the time.


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    #3284
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    Presenting this in the form of a long view perspective distorts the whole issue. It should be presented in the form of a normal map. It would be interesting to find out who has declared the red sites as derelict?

    Like to know that myself. 288 seem way over the top. An unused building or site being empty does not make it derelict.


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    #3285
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    BBM77 wrote: »
    Have lost a bit of respect for Rob Cass after reading this. What about the proposed shopping centre on the airport road or the retail village on the old glass factory playing pitches that were blocked. The out-of-town shopping complexes allowed in Waterford have been pretty appropriate. The Bulterstown retail park was given permission by Waterford County Council not Waterford City Council as they were separate at the time.

    Its Rob Cross not Rob Cass (NQs Guy)

    _____
    I think retail parks need to be out of town, none of the shops in Bulterstown are shops that would fit in core city centre because they are not big enough spaces and they generally involve large purchases and high traffic levels.

    The only exception is possibly Next in Ardkeen which City Square should try get them to come back and take Debenhams space.

    Prefect example of bad planning is Railway square retail area, will never be filled.


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    #3286
    Bruno Mysterious Comic
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ Bruno Mysterious Comic


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »

    Prefect example of bad planning is Railway square retail area, will never be filled.

    Are Pizza Hut still going in there?


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    #3287
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Are Pizza Hut still going in there?

    Yes but given the current situation I not so sure it will happen this year.


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    #3288
    BBM77
    Registered Users Posts: 1,874 ✭✭✭BBM77


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    Its Rob Cross not Rob Cass (NQs Guy)

    _____
    I think retail parks need to be out of town, none of the shops in Bulterstown are shops that would fit in core city centre because they are not big enough spaces and they generally involve large purchases and high traffic levels.

    The only exception is possibly Next in Ardkeen which City Square should try get them to come back and take Debenhams space.

    Prefect example of bad planning is Railway square retail area, will never be filled.

    :o Woops, sorry Rob Cass.

    Who is Rob Cross then? He would want to partake is some fact checking.


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    #3289
    Max Powers
    Registered Users Posts: 3,510 ✭✭✭Max Powers


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    If a site like the North Quays, or Michael Street is in planning can it really be classed as derelict? A little bit OTT, in my view.

    Agree...it ain't derelict/unused sites number one cause of poor economic indicators in Waterford compared to other cities, it's lack of investment, jobs, educational brain drain etc more likely bigger causes than this lads over simplified theory. To be fair his heart is in right place and sure there has been bad planning examples, much like every city, town, village in Ireland, doesn't stop Dublin, cork and others booming though.


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    #3290
    Muttley79
    Registered Users Posts: 295 ✭✭Muttley79


    BBM77 wrote: »
    :o Woops, sorry Rob Cass.

    Who is Rob Cross then? He would want to partake is some fact checking.

    Rob cross did the same layout on Limerick city during the week on twitter.
    Rob Cass asked him could he do a model for Waterford.
    Whatever chance the north quays had in finally getting the funds from the government is now gone I suspect.again they will look after dublin/cork before they give us some crumbs off the budget table.


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    #3291
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    If Rob Cass has had anything to do with this I'd say his cred with local council has gone. Limerick has massive financial input from government, Waterford has fared very badly in comparison with Limerick or Galway. Despite reflecting some truths and bad decisions, the real position is a bit more nuanced than this. As other posters have said on this forum, council has tried to protect city centre against out of town shopping centres. And before anyone says anything, Ferrybank Shopping Centre is in Co Kilkenny.


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    #3292
    hardybuck
    Registered Users Posts: 5,159 ✭✭✭hardybuck


    azimuth17 wrote: »
    If Rob Cass has had anything to do with this I'd say his cred with local council has gone. Limerick has massive financial input from government, Waterford has almost zero. Despite reflecting some truths and bad decisions, the real position is a bit more nuanced than this. As other posters have said on this forum, council has tried to protect city centre against out of town shopping centres. And before anyone says anything, Ferrybank Shopping Centre is in Co Kilkenny.

    Can you expand upon your point about Waterford receiving almost zero financial input from Government? Just trying to understand that better.


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    #3293
    azimuth17
    Registered Users Posts: 901 ✭✭✭azimuth17


    You are right of course, zero funding makes no sense. I have edited the post to make my intent clearer. The work of the SEEM group in WIT has provided enough detail of difference in funding for Waterford across the whole panoply of state services, versus other regional cities to satisfy anyone. it can be accessed on www.senser.ie


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    #3294
    Fugs!!
    Registered Users Posts: 189 ✭✭Fugs!!


    My first post on here after years of optimistic following. Theres work going on this week. They're there right now and it looks like preparatory work. MJS Engineering/ construction are the company.


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    #3295
    E38E3E38E3EE33
    Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭E38E3E38E3EE33


    Fugs!! wrote: »
    My first post on here after years of optimistic following. Theres work going on this week. They're there right now and it looks like preparatory work. MJS Engineering/ construction are the company.

    Article


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    #3296
    jelutong
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭jelutong


    Cummins said “His Party” has allocated in excess of €20 Million to the project.
    He’s given to making foolish statements.


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    #3297
    Jamie2k9
    Registered Users Posts: 10,667 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    jelutong wrote: »
    Cummins said “His Party” has allocated in excess of €20 Million to the project.
    He’s given to making foolish statements.

    His party were in charge of decisions.

    I will say he does appear to ensuing his profile is raised more than before the election. I wonder if FG have nobody to run next GE and they might have to put him forward.


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    #3298
    Deiseen
    Registered Users Posts: 1,661 ✭✭✭Deiseen


    jelutong wrote: »
    Cummins said “His Party” has allocated in excess of €20 Million to the project.
    He’s given to making foolish statements.

    Or as people on planet earth would say "in excess of €89 million less than what is actually needed."


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    #3299
    Bards
    Registered Users Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭Bards


    Deiseen wrote: »
    Or as people on planet earth would say "in excess of €89 million less than what is actually needed."

    The Covid-19 crises will cost Ireland 30 billion euro... Imagine for one moment if Waterford was given 500 million over the lifetime of the last government what it would have meant to our living standard here...

    We had to beg for 7 million for the airport alone... We have a private company waiting to spend 500 million if the government puts in 100 million... But we are told that we have to wait as the government can't afford it...

    It seems like Waterford is always waiting when FF and FG are in power... When is our time


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    #3300
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    https://twitter.com/Robcass78/status/1279147350817153026?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw


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    #3301
    Dexpat
    Registered Users Posts: 161 ✭✭Dexpat


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/Robcass78/status/1279147350817153026?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

    Well the developers seem ready to commit to the project despite everything. 'Crane by Christmas' mentioned by Rob Cass certainly fits the criteria of a crane ready project for stimulus funding so its up to the government to put up or shut up.


This discussion has been closed.
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