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Attic Insulation

  • 18-02-2021 4:28pm
    #1
    lostgoat
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭


    Hi all,
    I am living in a house built in the early 2000s. It's two story with hipped slated roof. Under the slates, is a layer of membrane and that's it. Then in the attic floor/joists, there is some fibreglass wool?
    There are also vents in the facia/soffit which are there for ventilation etc.

    Problem is it's very very cold in the upstairs in the winter. Especially in the room where the ladder to the attic is.
    The roof timbers are 6x2s.

    What or how would you insulate this attic to add warmth/stop such heat loss?

    Thanks on advance for any and all help!


Comments

  • #2
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    Solid timbers anyway with 6"x2" (most are a lot lighter) and good looking headroom to work in as you don't have those awkward W trusses.

    Here's another tread on same subject started a couple of days ago
    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058160722

    In addition to above try and insulate around trap door, if you've a pull down ladder you could fabricate something like the below from PIR insulation boards
    https://www.ecowiseinsulation.net/insulation-products/stira-stairs-thermal-covers.html


  • #3
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,314 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    The fibreglass insulation that's already in place seems well enough laid albeit a bit on the light side. Id suggest topping up with another 200mm laid perpendicular to the joists ... over and across. Make sure not to block the soffit vents and also ensure you insulate / draft proof over and around the trap door.

    Looks like a fairly straight forward job.


  • #4
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    lostgoat wrote: »

    What or how would you insulate this attic to add warmth/stop such heat loss?

    Your house may well be adequately insulated as it is but suffers heat loss by air infiltration. Upgrading your insulation will do little for this type of heat loss. You might benefit from an air tightness test / heat loss survey.


  • #5
    lostgoat
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭lostgoat


    Hi guys, thanks very much for your replies!

    @Dr_Colossus - To be fair, they were very good builders, definitely craftsmen. Thanks for the link. Interesting approach to it. Great advice about the cover over the trap door. Never thought about that!

    @muffler - I agree with you, it is on the light side. So do you mean, to roll out another layer in the same orientation as the fiberglass is now, to essentially level it with the floor joists? Then roll another layer on top at 90°?
    And if I have that right, does that mean you can't board over the joists to make walking a little safer. We don't use the attic to store anything (other than a few Christmas decorations) but the water tank is up there, so while we aren't walking around up there much, I'd prefer to be in the knowledge I won't come down through the ceiling!

    @MicktheMan - this is something I have thought about alot. But how do you address this? Even if we conducted an air tightness test / heat loss survey, what would be the plan of action? Are the soffit vents too big? If there is a wind blowing (especially these last few weeks there's a strong wind) there is a very obviously noise from the attic of the wind blowing through the vents.

    Thanks again guys!


  • #6
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    lostgoat wrote: »

    @MicktheMan - this is something I have thought about alot.
    1. But how do you address this?
    2. Even if we conducted an air tightness test / heat loss survey, what would be the plan of action?
    3. Are the soffit vents too big? If there is a wind blowing (especially these last few weeks there's a strong wind) there is a very obviously noise from the attic of the wind blowing through the vents.

    1. A heat loss survey (which includes an air tight test generally) will find where your heat is being lost primarily, be it conduction, convection or radiation losses. Adding insulation will address conductive losses but not the other two. Finding air leaks and fixing these in conjunction with ensuring adequate ventilation will hit your convection losses (by far the most significant loss mechanism in most Irish houses, especially those build in the last 30 years when slabbing of external walls became popular!).
    2. The plan of action is guided by the survey; a methodical approach based on the survey findings is the best use of resources.
    3. You are way off in your thinking. Soffit vents and attic ventilation are very important for the structural integrity of your roof but has nothing really to do with the air tightness of your house. Air tightness is addressed from inside your house, the attic space is outside.


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  • #7
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,314 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    lostgoat wrote: »
    @muffler - I agree with you, it is on the light side. So do you mean, to roll out another layer in the same orientation as the fiberglass is now, to essentially level it with the floor joists? Then roll another layer on top at 90°?
    And if I have that right, does that mean you can't board over the joists to make walking a little safer. We don't use the attic to store anything (other than a few Christmas decorations) but the water tank is up there, so while we aren't walking around up there much, I'd prefer to be in the knowledge I won't come down through the ceiling!
    In fairness you should always try to maintain a small walkway from the trap door to the water tank. Its also very useful to have a wee bit of storage there. The way most people would do this is simply put a bit of sheeting down over the joists. Looking at the photos it doesnt look like you can "top up" the insulation by much before flooring but if you can, then do so. But we're talking about a couple of inches only as you shouldnt compress thicker insulation so as to have it fit below the flooring. However you can raise the flooring to allow for a greater depth of insulation - see the link in the post above.

    Yes, just lay the new insulation across at 90 degrees to whats there and work it right under the bit of flooring. As mentioned look after the trap door and dont forget about the sides and top of the water tank. There's loads of info on that - Google's your friend :)

    Finally it goes without saying that the approach indicated by MicktheMan is the best. But it will depend on what budget you have. Just picking up on one point you mentioned about wind blowing through the attic (which is a good thing) I think MicktheMan summed it up nicely with this comment ...
    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Air tightness is addressed from inside your house, the attic space is outside.


  • #8
    jack of all
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,376 ✭✭✭jack of all


    Before you go addressing heat loss or air tightness I see something far more pressing- there looks to be Qualpex piping in your attic space which is not lagged and is above the existing quilt insulation. You should get that lagged properly before doing anything else.


  • #9
    Calahonda52
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,587 ✭✭✭✭Calahonda52


    The first picture shows a room where mould appeared after the attic insulation was upgraded.

    The second picture shows what was not done , which lead to the mould issues.
    The picture shows an eaves vented house but that aspect is irrelevant.

    IMO, based on having worked on site, in attics, on these type of projects, the upgrade cannot be done solely from the inside, especially in a hipped roof.

    Socket and higher amp power cables need to be sleeved and not covered

    “I can’t pay my staff or mortgage with instagram likes”.



  • #10
    Summer2020
    Registered Users Posts: 641 ✭✭✭Summer2020


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Your house may well be adequately insulated as it is but suffers heat loss by air infiltration. Upgrading your insulation will do little for this type of heat loss. You might benefit from an air tightness test / heat loss survey.

    I’ve seen this heat loss survey recommended numerous times on here. Can anyone recommend someone to do one in Dublin? How are they performed, with a thermal imaging device?
    Also would they give solutions on how to remedy issues?


  • #11
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Summer2020 wrote: »
    I’ve seen this heat loss survey recommended numerous times on here.
    1. Can anyone recommend someone to do one in Dublin?
    2. How are they performed, with a thermal imaging device?
    3. Also would they give solutions on how to remedy issues?

    1. Yes, pm sent
    2. Different aspects require different pieces of equipment including blower door fan, thermal imaging camera, trace smoke, moisture indicator, borescope, and, last but not least, experience.
    3. Yes (and should also give different options with pro's / con's of each explained)


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  • #12
    Dr_Colossus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,161 ✭✭✭Dr_Colossus


    MicktheMan wrote: »
    Finding air leaks and fixing these in conjunction with ensuring adequate ventilation will hit your convection losses (by far the most significant loss mechanism in most Irish houses, especially those build in the last 30 years when slabbing of external walls became popular!).

    Agreed on fixing air leaks but why would slabbing of external walls make matters any worse? Is it a case of plasterboard being dot/dabbed to walls leaving voids behind and vents often left open ended supplying cold air to any opening such as skirtboards, architrave and sockets/switches.


  • #13
    MicktheMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,858 ✭✭✭MicktheMan


    Dr_Colossus wrote: »
    why would slabbing of external walls make matters any worse? Is it a case of plasterboard being dot/dabbed to walls leaving voids behind and vents often left open ended supplying cold air to any opening such as skirtboards, architrave and sockets/switches.

    Yes to a certain extent but more so the bare block external walls behind the dabbed on pb being porous to air leakage. Older properties generally had a render of some description applied to the block work which acted as an air tight barrier.


  • #14
    lostgoat
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭lostgoat


    Hi guys,

    Thanks for all the advice.
    I think that I will take the punt on getting the thermal survey performed in the house. It may be very well spent money.

    Thanks again!


  • #15
    chuck eastwood
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 533 ✭✭✭chuck eastwood


    lostgoat wrote: »
    Hi guys,

    Thanks for all the advice.
    I think that I will take the punt on getting the thermal survey performed in the house. It may be very well spent money.

    Thanks again!

    Can you let us know how you get on with the test if you get it done. Similar issues here


  • #16
    Cluedo Monopoly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    Calahonda52 wrote: »
    Socket and higher amp power cables need to be sleeved and not covered

    Can you please show exactly what you mean by sleeved?

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth House?



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