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3 politicians need 17 Special Advisors

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  • 15-07-2020 7:34pm
    #1
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭


    Following from Kinvaros thread on journalists leaving the profession to become special advisers to government ministers
    It has come out that Michael Martinn, Leo Varadkar and Catherine Martin will be hiring a total of 17 different special advisors between them. Martin has said he needs six people to advise him, he will be appointing a Chief of Staff, a deputy Chief of Staff, three Special Advisors and another one to advise him on economic policy. The salary ranges for this lot go from 93k up to 180k and it will be the same in Catherine Martins and Leo Varadkars departments where Martin will get 5 advisors and Leo 6.
    THE Taoiseach, Tánaiste and Green Party leader will have up to 17 special advisers between them in Government, the Dáil has been told.
    Opposition TDs said it was “irregular” and “incredible” that the leaders of Fianna Fáil, Fine Gael and the Green Party will share that many special advisers between them following the disclosure by Taoiseach Micheál Martin on Tuesday. Mr Martin confirmed to the Dáil that an office of the Tánaiste and a new office of the Green Party leader are being set up in Government Buildings.

    Mr Martin told TDs that he has appointed a chief of staff, a deputy chief of staff, three special advisers and that he intends to appoint an adviser on economic policy. Mr Martin also confirmed to the Dáil that the new office of the Tánaiste, occupied by Fine Gael leader Leo Varadkar, will consist of “approximately five or six special advisers”. It will include a private office and a policy and programme implementation unit, he said.
    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/government-party-leaders-to-get-up-to-17-special-advisers-39367377.html

    Then the Chief Whip and 15 other ministers get two special advisors each. And then each of the 20 junior ministerw gets one each. All in all we are talking somewhere in the region of 65 special advisors to specially advise the party leaders and ministers. At salaries of up to 180k this is quite the gravy train and its no wonder print journalists have been flocking to these positions.

    Im also wondering if the government is paying a small army of special advisors then what are the all the Secretary Generals and Principal Officers in the Civil Service doing. What was their job to research policy and advise Ministers is now being taken over by a bunch of special advisors yet they still have to be paid. This cottage industry is just adding yet another layer of bureaucracy to our civil service. If politicians feel that senior civil servants are not competent enough to advise then they should be reforming the civil service to get competent people in there rather than adding a small army of special advisors with whopping pay cheques for the taxpayer to pick up. Ultimately the taxpayer is paying on the double here.


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    #2
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    We have civil servants already on salary who can answer any quires one assistant might make on behalf of a minister.
    Magic money tree indeed.


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    #3
    Silentcorner
    Registered Users Posts: 6,165 ✭✭✭Silentcorner


    If Journalists are advising them then we truly are f##ked!!!!


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    #4
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,851 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Salaries of up to €180,000 a year.

    Wow.

    Welfare for their mates.

    TDs must be jealous even with their own gravy train expenses.


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    #5
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,215 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    93 to 180k?

    How do I get one of these jobs?

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #6
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    TheValeyard wrote: »
    93 to 180k?

    How do I get one of these jobs?
    Theyre only for party hacks and journalists who think they are on the West Wing


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    #7
    PixieValentine
    Registered Users Posts: 86 ✭✭PixieValentine


    According to Gavin Reilly it seems they're not actually all advisors, it's just a term used to describe their staff. Don't get me wrong, it's a LOT of people, but sounds like they're not ALL just there to "advise".

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1283056491642200068?s=20


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    #8
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Martin said he is hiring a Chief of Staff, a deputy chief of staff and four advisors, one of who is focused on economic policy. Would make you wonder what the chief of staff and deputy chief of staff are doing for their 180k, its not the White House we are running here. Plus then all these advisers are basically duplicating the role filled by senior civil servants. I find it incredibile that 3 politicians need staff of 17 people when they already have an entire civil service at their disposal.


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    #9
    Yurt2
    Registered Users Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    As Gavan Reilly states, the term 'special advisor' is a bit of a misnomer. Would lead you to believe they are policy expert soothsayers. Usually party cadres / flunkies on the up, and ex-journos who know the press corps to keep bad news away.


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    #10
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    I wonders how many nurses we could pay instead of the special advisers...


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    #11
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    Yurt! wrote: »
    As Gavan Reilly states, the term 'special advisor' is a bit of a misnomer. Would lead you to believe they are policy expert soothsayers. Usually party cadres / flunkies on the up, and ex-journos who know the press corps to keep bad news away.


    What would you say the Chief of Staff and Deputy Chief of Staff are doing in their roles? It hardly takes two people to supervise four advisors so Im wondering are they now barking orders to senior civil servants and effectively taking the job of a secretary general? Similar stuff is going on in the UK where Domnic Cummings has installed a layer of tons of special advisers (which he picks) over senior civil servants in Whitehall.


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    #12
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    biko wrote: »
    I wonders how many nurses we could pay instead of the special advisers...
    Or phlebotomists at 2/3rds of a nurses wage so the nurse can do the job they trained for not a handy number finishing at 1 p.m.


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    #13
    StackSteevens
    Closed Accounts Posts: 873 ✭✭✭StackSteevens


    Muahahaha wrote: »

    I'm also wondering if the government is paying a small army of special advisors then what are the all the Secretary Generals and Principal Officers in the Civil Service doing. What was their job to research policy and advise Ministers is now being taken over by a bunch of special advisors yet they still have to be paid. This cottage industry is just adding yet another layer of bureaucracy to our civil service. If politicians feel that senior civil servants are not competent enough to advise then they should be reforming the civil service to get competent people in there rather than adding a small army of special advisors with whopping pay cheques for the taxpayer to pick up. Ultimately the taxpayer is paying on the double here.

    Thing is that Civil Servants - other than those who are assigned to Ministers' Offices - are not tasked with doing their utmost to ensure that their current political boss gets re-elected to the Dail. That's the main responsibility of these so-called "special advisers".

    And it's much the same with Ministerial Press "advisers" whose role is quite different from that of Departmental Press Officers. In a nutshell, the DPO's job is to keep their Department out of the news as much as possible while the Minister's PA is trying his/her utmost to get their boss into the papers - but only if it's a good news story or a good photo op!


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    #14
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,772 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    Maybe just keep the special advisors and get rid of Varadkar and the rest of the flotsam.


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    #15
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    Fann Linn wrote: »
    Maybe just keep the special advisors and get rid of Varadkar and the rest of the flotsam.

    This. No point buying a dog and barking yourself.


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    #16
    James Brown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,015 ✭✭✭✭James Brown


    Said it before. Get in some admins to run the country.

    Good man RBB:

    RBB

    The look on Sio's face.


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    #17
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Think Dominic Cummings.


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    #18
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    These people are making the most important decisions in the country that will effect your lives in every single way.

    Don’t you want them to have good advisors around them?


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    #19
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    KiKi III wrote: »
    These people are making the most important decisions in the country that will effect your lives in every single way.

    Don’t you want them to have good advisors around them?

    Who's to say that they are actually good at their jobs?

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #20
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    Who's to say that they are actually good at their jobs?

    Who’s to say they’re not?


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    #21
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    KiKi III wrote: »
    These people are making the most important decisions in the country that will effect your lives in every single way.

    Don’t you want them to have good advisors around them?

    No, they want them taking average industrial wage. Or working for free if possible.


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    #22
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    KiKi III wrote: »
    These people are making the most important decisions in the country that will effect your lives in every single way.

    Don’t you want them to have good advisors around them?

    Of course we do, but I think most people would expect the senior civil servants or the quangos to cover that role.


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    #23
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Any CEO of a global company has a wide variety of advisors: Boards of Directors, senior management teams, NEDs. Seems very normal to me that the senior leaders of our country would also require this.


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    #24
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    KiKi III wrote: »
    These people are making the most important decisions in the country that will effect your lives in every single way.

    Don’t you want them to have good advisors around them?

    If you need that many advisors then you are clearly unqualified for your position.


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    #25
    Mr. Karate
    Registered Users Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭Mr. Karate


    KiKi III wrote: »
    Any CEO of a global company has a wide variety of advisors: Boards of Directors, senior management teams, NEDs. Seems very normal to me that the senior leaders of our country would also require this.

    A CEO pays his advisors. We're paying for these gob****es advisors. Huge difference.


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    #26
    KiKi III
    Registered Users Posts: 2,653 ✭✭✭KiKi III


    Mr. Karate wrote: »
    If you need that many advisors then you are clearly unqualified for your position.

    That's just not true.

    It's pretty important for someone who has massive responsibilities to have advisors. This is such a non-story.


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    #27
    Eduard Khil
    Registered Users Posts: 796 ✭✭✭Eduard Khil


    Triumvirate always works out badly for one of them. All we need is a Spartacus uprising to throw this one off the boil.


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    #28
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    How many are being paid 180k? I doubt many. And two of these politicians are the leader of the country and the deputy leader of the country - as they can change the entire nation for better or worse, probably good to have them getting decent advice really.


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    #29
    fr336
    Registered Users Posts: 10,179 ✭✭✭✭fr336


    Mr. Karate wrote: »
    If you need that many advisors then you are clearly unqualified for your position.

    How can you expect the taoisoch to know every single thing about everything across government and the country? Even if they were the smartest person on earth, there isn't enough hours in the day.


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    #30
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,033 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    fr336 wrote: »
    How can you expect the taoisoch to know every single thing about everything across government and the country? Even if they were the smartest person on earth, there isn't enough hours in the day.

    I think the issue is why these need to be new roles, why arent the civil service covering them?


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    #31
    Muahahaha
    Registered Users Posts: 19,610 ✭✭✭✭Muahahaha


    KiKi III wrote: »
    These people are making the most important decisions in the country that will effect your lives in every single way.

    Don’t you want them to have good advisors around them?


    Then why then do we bother employing all those Sec.Generals, Assistant Sec.Generals and Principal Officers in the Civil Service? And how did the country ever manage for decades before the advent of Special Advisers began with Fianna Fail back in the Tiger years when jobs for the boys was the norm? It has not only remained the norm, it has now expanded greatly. As the thread title says it is now 17 advisors for 3 politicians. Across government between senior and junior Ministers we are now employing in and around 65 Special Advisors, all on salaries ranging from 100k up to 180k. Thats a small army of Special Advisors all on the taxpayers money.

    Advice and policy research to Ministers is what the civil service is there for, it is literally their remit. So why now do the government parties feel they need to make their roles redundant by employing yet another layer of bureaucracy above the civil service?

    Someone back up the thread suggested that the real purpose of a Special Advisor is to make sure that their Minister gets re-elected.If thats the case taxpayer money is not being used to better run the government, irs being used to give a Minister an advantage at election time.


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