NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2019-20 Thread

jk23 · 27-09-2020 10:51pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

LeBron is the GOAT NBA team player.
You can't change my mind.

He did a great series on the GOAT debate, the Jordan and Duncan ones are very good too. It will always be Jordan for me though

eagle eye · 28-09-2020 12:45am

K.O.Kiki wrote:

LeBron is the GOAT NBA team player. You can't change my mind.

You are probably young and didn't have the opportunity to see Michael Jordan.
MJ is the GOAT for me. While he was still playing and before he won his second three titles I had him as the GOAT, I was living in Boston and I'm a Celtics fan and Larry Bird was in the conservation for greatest ever at that time but MJ was different gravy.
Lebron is a great, great player, imo he is in a group behind Jordan with Kobe, Magic, Jabar and Bird.

Gregk961 · 28-09-2020 8:01am

Oh wow a GOAT debate, how interesting.

jk23 · 28-09-2020 10:23am

It would be interesting to see who everyone's top 5 players of all time are on here...mine are
1.MJ
2.Lebron
3.Kareem
4.Bill Russell
5.Magic or Bird

chopperbyrne · 28-09-2020 11:00am

LeBron is never going to score as much as MJ, Bird, or Kobe, but he makes up for it, with how much he facilitates, and how much he prevents.

He is probably going to win his fourth ring this year, and unless the Warriors make a huge comeback next year, or another super team gets assembled in post season, they'll be favourites for next year too.

Because of how less physical the game has become, he could probably still go for another few years yet.

He might just be the best ever, and I would have been firmly in the Jordan camp for years.

I'm 37 before anyone tries to claim I never saw Jordan play in his prime.

jk23 · 28-09-2020 11:04am

chopperbyrne wrote: »

LeBron is never going to score as much as MJ, Bird, or Kobe, but he makes up for it, with how much he facilitates, and how much he prevents.

He is probably going to win his fourth ring this year, and unless the Warriors make a huge comeback next year, or another super team gets assembled in post season, they'll be favourites for next year too.

Because of how less physical the game has become, he could probably still go for another few years yet.

He might just be the best ever, and I would have been firmly in the Jordan camp for years.

I'm 37 before anyone tries to claim I never saw Jordan play in his prime.

I think the only thing that goes against him is the fact he left his drafted team and joined up with two top 10 picks from his draft class. I agree with most of what you said though

eagle eye · 28-09-2020 11:48am

So Miami are through. They've fought the good fight as outsiders all during the playoffs.
Jimmy Butler has been awesome, Tyler Herro is incredible but everybody plays their part, a true team.
They are big outsiders again now, I just hope they can pull it off, it'd be an incredible achievement for an unheralded team to win it.

28-09-2020 11:54am

1. Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Lebron
4. Bird
5. Olajuwon

chopperbyrne · 28-09-2020 11:58am

jk23 wrote: »

I think the only thing that goes against him is the fact he left his drafted team and joined up with two top 10 picks from his draft class. I agree with most of what you said though

Jordan came out of retirement to join up with Pippen and Rodman, sure discount those three championships.

Top players want to play with other top players so that they can maximise their chances of winning.

It's next to impossible to win a championship with just one top player, no matter how good they are.

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 12:01pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Jordan came out of retirement to join up with Pippen and Rodman, sure discount those three championships.

Top players want to play with other top players so that they can maximise their chances of winning.

It's next to impossible to win a championship with just one top player, no matter how good they are.

Whoa! Lebron hasn't ever played on a superteam, remember? His words.

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 12:04pm

eagle eye wrote: »

So Miami are through. They've fought the good fight as outsiders all during the playoffs.
Jimmy Butler has been awesome, Tyler Herro is incredible but everybody plays their part, a true team.
They are big outsiders again now, I just hope they can pull it off, it'd be an incredible achievement for an unheralded team to win it.

Bam was probably their best all-round player in the Boston series, on both ends. If he hadn't blocked that Taytum dunk in Game 1, this series could have been an awful lot different.

Boston have now lost 3 of the last 4 Conf. Finals. Stevens was completely out-thought and outplayed by Spoelstra in this series. They're close, but this one will hurt.

Hard to call the finals, LA have the 2 best players, but Miami are a far better "team" in the collective sense.

I'm a Boston fan, so naturally hope Miami win it.

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 12:05pm

Kareem (as usual) so incredibly under-rated. The passage of time really blurs memories as we switch to recency bias. Sad really.

jk23 · 28-09-2020 12:06pm

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Jordan came out of retirement to join up with Pippen and Rodman, sure discount those three championships.

Top players want to play with other top players so that they can maximise their chances of winning.

It's next to impossible to win a championship with just one top player, no matter how good they are.

That's true but it was Jordans drafted team and Pippen was drafted there also.Coming back from retirement to your old team it's not the same as leaving to join a new franchise.

The two players LeBron joined were one of which won a championship before LeBron (Wade) and a franchise player in Bosh

eagle eye · 28-09-2020 12:13pm

chopperbyrne wrote:

I'm 37 before anyone tries to claim I never saw Jordan play in his prime.

So you were in school, a kid during Jordan's career. You were a year old when he was drafted, ten when he went off playing baseball, 12 when he came back and 15 when he retired from the Bulls for the second time.
You've been watching Lebron since you were twenty so he's in your era.
Gotta think that you didn't see much of Jordan.
It's a bit like me and Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain, they were before my time. Even Abdul-Jabar was a bit before my time. I seen the end of his career, the last six years, but he played for twenty so I'm not fully up on him.
I like to rate players I seen for most of their careers.
It's ok to rate Lebron as no.1 whilst admitting you didn't really see Jordan.

As someone whose followed both their careers Jordan stands alone as the unquestioned no.1. It's incredible that he still holds the ppg record despite the game becoming much more high scoring in recent times.

The guy nobody has mentioned is Steph Curry. He changed the way the game is played, he's been incredible since coming into the league.

And just on the Warriors, they'll be back next year. That no.2 pick in the draft will be dealt away to add the couple of players they need to get back on top unless they feel there's a star there to take..

K.O.Kiki · 28-09-2020 4:59pm

eagle eye wrote: »

You are probably young and didn't have the opportunity to see Michael Jordan.
MJ is the GOAT for me. While he was still playing and before he won his second three titles I had him as the GOAT, I was living in Boston and I'm a Celtics fan and Larry Bird was in the conservation for greatest ever at that time but MJ was different gravy.
Lebron is a great, great player, imo he is in a group behind Jordan with Kobe, Magic, Jabar and Bird.

I'm 34 so I grew up idolizing MJ, I actually stopped following basketball for a while during LeBron's early years.
And individually, MJ is better at scoring/defense.

But he wasn't able to elevate his teams the way LeBron has done, consistently, for nearly 2 decades.
MJ's Bulls took 4 years to post a .500 season. By year 4, LeBron's Cavs were in the finals having averaged .577 over the previous 3 seasons.

K.O.Kiki · 28-09-2020 5:12pm

Also, my NBA top players:

Tier 1: LeBron James, Michael Jordan
Tier 2: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Tim Duncan
Tier 3: Steph Curry, Kobe Bryant, Magic Johnson
Tier 4: Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Kevin Durant, Hakeem Olajuwon

Carcharodon · 28-09-2020 6:21pm

We really doing the LeBron v Jordan thing again, never ends well !

On actual current basketball, I think most basketball neutrals will be rooting for Heat, just so impressive.
I’ll definitely be rooting for them with one of my fav players iggy making 6 straight NBA finals.
Spoelstra really got them playing great basketball, he has come under criticism over the years, especially during the LeBron era but it must be gratifying to be able to coach a team and not be under the shadow of LeBron

Osmosis Jones · 28-09-2020 10:19pm

Doc is out! Guess they had to blame someone

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1310689859191951360?s=20

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 10:40pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

Also, my NBA top players:

Tier 1: Michael Jordan
Tier 2: LeBron James, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Tim Duncan
Tier 3: Larry Bird, Bill Russell, Steph Curry, Magic Johnson
Tier 4: Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant, Hakeem Olajuwon

Fixed that for you.

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 10:44pm

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Doc is out! Guess they had to blame someone

https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1310689859191951360?s=20

Strange one ona few levels. I'm more surprised than not tbh; I did think it was possible that he would lose his job but unlikely. Lots of stuff coming out about PG and the dislike the rest of the roster had for him, so clearly chemistry is an issue there. That said, I still thought they'd run it back. They'll likely lose Montrezl too.

I guess Doc can go to Houston now and give Austin a max. :rolleyes:

Be interesting to see who they go for. Pop would be the obvious choice but for the fact that I can't see him coaching a certain former Spur. If they promote Ty Lue I give up.

Osmosis Jones · 28-09-2020 10:48pm

Doc must absolutely hate Paul George, goes from cheating on his daughter to shooting him out of a job.

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 10:51pm

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

I'm 34 so I grew up idolizing MJ, I actually stopped following basketball for a while during LeBron's early years.
And individually, MJ is better at scoring/defense.

But he wasn't able to elevate his teams the way LeBron has done, consistently, for nearly 2 decades.
MJ's Bulls took 4 years to post a .500 season. By year 4, LeBron's Cavs were in the finals having averaged .577 over the previous 3 seasons.

If you're 34 you really didn't live it at the time to be fair. I'm 47. I was in my early 20s when MJ was peaking, he won his first title when I was 19, you were 6. No disrepect, but I think in my 20s puts me in a better place to remember and evaluate than a than a 6-12 year old; and likewise to compare and contrast the two.

You're so ridiculously selective when it omes to picking stats from your backside to make a LeBron argument. So here's a statline for you: 6 Finals, 6 wins, 0 losses, 6 MVPs, no series longer than 6 games.

ButtersSuki · 28-09-2020 10:51pm

Osmosis Jones wrote: »

Doc must absolutely hate Paul George, goes from cheating on his daughter to shooting him out of a job.

:pac:

K.O.Kiki · 29-09-2020 12:22am

ButtersSuki wrote: »

If you're 34 you really didn't live it at the time to be fair. I'm 47. I was in my early 20s when MJ was peaking, he won his first title when I was 19, you were 6. No disrepect, but I think in my 20s puts me in a better place to remember and evaluate than a than a 6-12 year old; and likewise to compare and contrast the two.

You're so ridiculously selective when it omes to picking stats from your backside to make a LeBron argument. So here's a statline for you: 6 Finals, 6 wins, 0 losses, 6 MVPs, no series longer than 6 games.

MJ's competition sucked.

Carcharodon · 29-09-2020 12:29am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

MJ's competition sucked.

No you didn’t girl !
Lol, quality trolling though

29-09-2020 12:32am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

MJ's competition sucked.

chips1234 · 29-09-2020 12:35am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

MJ's competition sucked.

i dunno the monstars were a formidable force and got allllll the calls from the refs.

eagle eye · 29-09-2020 4:00am

K.O.Kiki wrote:

I'm 34 so I grew up idolizing MJ, I actually stopped following basketball for a while during LeBron's early years. And individually, MJ is better at scoring/defense.

You were 11 when MJ retired for the second time from the Bulls. How could you have grown up idolising him?

ButtersSuki · 29-09-2020 5:20am

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

MJ's competition sucked.

Can’t wait until next year when you say Space Jam 2 is better than the original and therefore LeBron is a better player. :rolleyes:

xgronkjabv6pcl · 29-09-2020 9:03am

eagle eye wrote: »

The guy nobody has mentioned is Steph Curry. He changed the way the game is played, he's been incredible since coming into the league.

And just on the Warriors, they'll be back next year. That no.2 pick in the draft will be dealt away to add the couple of players they need to get back on top unless they feel there's a star there to take..

Why would anyone mention Steph? He's a phenomenal talent and will likely go down as one of the best players of his generation along with phenomenal influence on the game but he's not in the league of the players being discussed here.

Curry didn't change the game per se, his game is the manifestation of how the game was evolving anyway. He was the poster boy of the change and certainly blazed the trail but JJ Redick discussed how Stan Van Gundy was mentioning how the game was evolving analytically back in 2008/09. Steph just showed it's value to the masses.

I love Steph but you can't mention his name here, the best player on the best team yet when it came down to it, he wasnt the best player in the finals. Steph has never been a finals MVP, he certainly sacrificed when KD arrived but Iggie won it before KD arrived. Great but not one the greatest.

On the MJ vs LBJ stuff, largely I think MJ just about nicks it for me. More titles and tbh, the loss to Dallas is a big negative against LBJ for me.
That said, the whole 6 finals, 6 wins stuff is a little :rolleyes: at times.
Its almost as though LBJ making the finals more frequently than MJ but coming up short is a bigger slight on LBJ than MJ losing at an earlier stage. Logically that just simply doesn't compute.

LBJ could pass MJ if he won maybe 3 more titles as the best player but I think this playoffs is showing that it likely will be AD as Batman from next year on.
3 more titles is possible but I think his time as best player on the championship team might end this year.

NBA Regular Season & Playoffs 2019-20 Thread

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