Zero grazing

Grueller · 27-09-2020 2:03pm #1

This is probably going to be a polarisinig thread.

The reason I am asking about it is that I have a fragmented farm. As some of ye will know I am a new entrant to dairying. I am also running 60 sucklers alongside the dairy operation.
My farm can graze about 60 cows around the parlour.
I have 18 acres 1.5 km away that I just cannot walk cows to.
I have 80 acres 7 miles away. I use this for silage and sucklers.
At the moment I have a batch of weanling heifers feeding, a batch of weanling bulls feeding,a batch of dry Autumn calving sucklers, a batch of Autmn calving sucklers that have actually calved, and a batch of bulling heifers. Among the sucklers I have some pedigree cows so I also have a batch of pedigree bulls 1.5 years old that will be sold next spring.
Add the dairy cows and that is 7 batches of cattle. Six of which make no, or nearly no money.

The 18 acres up the road is in really good shape. Soil indices are excellent, reseeded 6 years ago.
The outfarm is in need of reseeding. It was done 10 years ago but at the time indices were very poor and I ended up with a very open award and weeds got a hold. By no means is it bad, but not what I would like.

I would love to tidy up the batches of cattle by simply getting rid of sucklers and keeping more dairy cows. I would plan on transitioning into this by exiting sucklers and rearing my own dairy cross calves for a couple of years while building numbers. I would graze these on the 80 acre out farm.
I would propose buying a zero grazer to utilise the 18 acres close by allowing me to go to 85 cows comfortably.
In time I would plan on going to 100 cows by reseeding the out farm and using some of this for zero grazing as. I realise that 7 miles is a fair spin with a zero grazer but it would only need to be done intermittently as grazed grass and the closer out block would provide 85% of my grass requirement.
This would reduce my batches of stock to dairy cows, replacement heifers and whatever small amount of beef stock I decide to carry to utilise the remainder of the outfarm. The time saved by herding 4 extra batches, no calving of sucklers and stock just being generally easier to handle would, in my opinion, free up the time to do the zero grazing.
I would propose taking a load every second day and allowing cows access to it for a couple of hours after morning milking and before evening milking. A load does 80 cows for a day so should buffer at this rate for two days.
I have housing for sucklers that can convert to hold the increase to 100 cows at low cost.
Questions I have,
Is anyone on here zero grazing?
What are the real costs involved? I am finding varying figures online.
Feel free to shoot my plan down.

degetme · 27-09-2020 2:55pm

Grueller wrote: »

This is probably going to be a polarisinig thread.

The reason I am asking about it is that I have a fragmented farm. As some of ye will know I am a new entrant to dairying. I am also running 60 sucklers alongside the dairy operation.
My farm can graze about 60 cows around the parlour.
I have 18 acres 1.5 km away that I just cannot walk cows to.
I have 80 acres 7 miles away. I use this for silage and sucklers.
At the moment I have a batch of weanling heifers feeding, a batch of weanling bulls feeding,a batch of dry Autumn calving sucklers, a batch of Autmn calving sucklers that have actually calved, and a batch of bulling heifers. Among the sucklers I have some pedigree cows so I also have a batch of pedigree bulls 1.5 years old that will be sold next spring.
Add the dairy cows and that is 7 batches of cattle. Six of which make no, or nearly no money.

The 18 acres up the road is in really good shape. Soil indices are excellent, reseeded 6 years ago.
The outfarm is in need of reseeding. It was done 10 years ago but at the time indices were very poor and I ended up with a very open award and weeds got a hold. By no means is it bad, but not what I would like.

I would love to tidy up the batches of cattle by simply getting rid of sucklers and keeping more dairy cows. I would plan on transitioning into this by exiting sucklers and rearing my own dairy cross calves for a couple of years while building numbers. I would graze these on the 80 acre out farm.
I would propose buying a zero grazer to utilise the 18 acres close by allowing me to go to 85 cows comfortably.
In time I would plan on going to 100 cows by reseeding the out farm and using some of this for zero grazing as. I realise that 7 miles is a fair spin with a zero grazer but it would only need to be done intermittently as grazed grass and the closer out block would provide 85% of my grass requirement.
This would reduce my batches of stock to dairy cows, replacement heifers and whatever small amount of beef stock I decide to carry to utilise the remainder of the outfarm. The time saved by herding 4 extra batches, no calving of sucklers and stock just being generally easier to handle would, in my opinion, free up the time to do the zero grazing.
I would propose taking a load every second day and allowing cows access to it for a couple of hours after morning milking and before evening milking. A load does 80 cows for a day so should buffer at this rate for two days.
I have housing for sucklers that can convert to hold the increase to 100 cows at low cost.
Questions I have,
Is anyone on here zero grazing?
What are the real costs involved? I am finding varying figures online.
Feel free to shoot my plan down.

I would be very wary of what dogs or foxes cross your land you plan on zero grazing. I got a neospora outbreak because of zero grazing after grass that had a dairy farm across the road and there dogs often in my field that was zero grazed and foxes in a nearby plantation. I blood tested the cows for neospora. All the cows I had dried off and got no access to zero grazing grass were negative and the 1s who got the zero grazing grass were mostly positive. A very expensive lesson. I wouldn't go near zero grazing again

Timmaay · 27-09-2020 3:51pm

You should also look at the options of leafy bales, making say 4 cuts across the summer, the advantage of this over zg would be you only have to harvest once every 6wks, instead of every 2nd day with the zg, and lower capital spend (you get the contractor to bale etc), also leafy bales let's you match up supply with demand better, you cut the leafy bales when the growth is good and feed back when it drops off (especially useful if you suffer from summer droughts). 7 miles is a fair spin though and always going to be an issue, you do know there is a reasonable tax relief if you sell up land and buy some that is closer to your home block, something to keep in mind longterm.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 3:57pm

Timmaay wrote: »

You should also look at the options of leafy bales, making say 4 cuts across the summer, the advantage of this over zg would be you only have to harvest once every 6wks, instead of every 2nd day with the zg, and lower capital spend (you get the contractor to bale etc), also leafy bales let's you match up supply with demand better, you cut the leafy bales when the growth is good and feed back when it drops off (especially useful if you suffer from summer droughts). 7 miles is a fair spin though and always going to be an issue, you do know there is a reasonable tax relief if you sell up land and buy some that is closer to your home block, something to keep in mind longterm.

I have the tax relief in mind Timmay, just getting land close to home is near impossible.
What is the cost differential between zero grazing and leafy bales do you know?

patsy_mccabe · 27-09-2020 4:42pm

Sorry to digress, but does Neospora get killed off in silage?

Mooooo · 27-09-2020 5:01pm

What way are you/ will you be stocked on the milking platform? If at 4/ ha you may get away at peak growth with little to no buffering but there will be a lot in the shoulders. Neighbours zerograze here and while i have no figures in autumn and spring they can be up and down the road a lot with grass and slurry, father and son job. It may be more time efficient to make quality silage during the summer and use the zerograzer then for the last rounds. Alternatively growing a crop of maize on a portion may also be an option. The key whatever way you go is to setup up the housing facilities with as much headspace as possible and perhaps silage pits with a narrow feed face if buffering ends up happening for an extended period or year round.
Agree on reducing the number of groups of stock, makes things much more manageable.
Also as an aside while it may be unlikely, if making any changes make sure you have machinery access to the shed if buffering is a possibility in April/May /June, nothing like cow's bulling inside to cause an animal to do the splits etc....

limerick farmer · 27-09-2020 5:15pm

would you not just hire someone to do it and not be forking out big money for a zero grazer there are a good few doing it now?

Grueller · 27-09-2020 6:52pm

Mooooo wrote: »

What way are you/ will you be stocked on the milking platform? If at 4/ ha you may get away at peak growth with little to no buffering but there will be a lot in the shoulders. Neighbours zerograze here and while i have no figures in autumn and spring they can be up and down the road a lot with grass and slurry, father and son job. It may be more time efficient to make quality silage during the summer and use the zerograzer then for the last rounds. Alternatively growing a crop of maize on a portion may also be an option. The key whatever way you go is to setup up the housing facilities with as much headspace as possible and perhaps silage pits with a narrow feed face if buffering ends up happening for an extended period or year round.
Agree on reducing the number of groups of stock, makes things much more manageable.
Also as an aside while it may be unlikely, if making any changes make sure you have machinery access to the shed if buffering is a possibility in April/May /June, nothing like cow's bulling inside to cause an animal to do the splits etc....

I am already going to be at 3.75/ha to carry the 60 at home so I am looking at options to use the out blocks.

The elephant in the room may just be build a second parlour where the out farm is. The cost of zero grazing would meet a lot of the repayments on a simple 12 unit parlour and tank in a collection yard for 60 more cows.

Tonynewholland · 27-09-2020 7:07pm

Grueller wrote: »

I am already going to be at 3.75/ha to carry the 60 at home so I am looking at options to use the out blocks.

The elephant in the room may just be build a second parlour where the out farm is. The cost of zero grazing would meet a lot of the repayments on a simple 12 unit parlour and tank in a collection yard for 60 more cows.

Would be milking the two herds yourself

Grueller · 27-09-2020 7:21pm

Tonynewholland wrote: »

Would be milking the two herds yourself

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 7:30pm

Grueller wrote: »

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

Milking in 2 yards yourself would be a disaster In my view could you not just push numbers at home and hire someone to zoro grass for you in the shoulders. Buying a machine to enable you to get a tax relief is never a good idea unless it's essential to your business.

degetme · 27-09-2020 7:34pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Milking in 2 yards yourself would be a disaster In my view could you not just push numbers at home and hire someone to zoro grass for you in the shoulders. Buying a machine to enable you to get a tax relief is never a good idea unless it's essential to your business.

On your last sentence why is buying machinery not a good idea for tax relief?

degetme · 27-09-2020 7:35pm

Grueller wrote: »

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

How about once a day in both places. 50 cows in each place

Tonynewholland · 27-09-2020 7:36pm

Grueller wrote: »

Initially yes. Long term the plan would be no.

I’d prefer the maize or good silage idea myself. The thought of milking two herds everyday 7 days a week wouldn’t leave much time for anything else

Acquiescence · 27-09-2020 7:37pm

Is there somebody else living on the home farm?

Have you much recent investment?

Would you sell all three and consolidate elsewhere..

Mooooo · 27-09-2020 7:39pm

You've 40 acres roughly at home so, obv with the housing in situ there?. Tbh I'd be looking at setting the 80 acres up for the 100 cows, could calve and milk at home till conditions are suitable and transfer herd to 80 acres for main grazing season, and use home block and other out farm for silage/ young stock. Gradually develop 80 acres as need be to make it efficient then. Assuming it's not very heavy ground etc.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-09-2020 7:55pm

Grueller wrote: »

I am already going to be at 3.75/ha to carry the 60 at home so I am looking at options to use the out blocks.

The elephant in the room may just be build a second parlour where the out farm is. The cost of zero grazing would meet a lot of the repayments on a simple 12 unit parlour and tank in a collection yard for 60 more cows.

Build a second simple parlour in the out farm and calve all your cows at home and for the first rotation.

Move the cows over there for the peak grazing season and make most of your silage in the home block and bring back any excess as silage.

Bring the cows back home for the last rotation and hire a bit of zero grazing for that every day or second day.

That would simplify your system, I'd say, and allow extra cows to be carried to use the extra grass without the need for beef cattle. There will be a bit of hauling the late cows over but a haulier would carry the whole milking herd over in a morning.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:00pm

Acquiescence wrote: »

Is there somebody else living on the home farm?

Have you much recent investment?

Would you sell all three and consolidate elsewhere..

Yes

Yes

No. Due to parents living in the yard and I hope they will be for another 10+ years.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:01pm

degetme wrote: »

How about once a day in both places. 50 cows in each place

It's an option that I thought about too. I was looking at other options to avoid building the second parlour.

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:05pm

Buford T. Justice XIX wrote: »

Build a second simple parlour in the out farm and calve all your cows at home and for the first rotation.

Move the cows over there for the peak grazing season and make most of your silage in the home block and bring back any excess as silage.

Bring the cows back home for the last rotation and hire a bit of zero grazing for that every day or second day.

That would simplify your system, I'd say, and allow extra cows to be carried to use the extra grass without the need for beef cattle. There will be a bit of hauling the late cows over but a haulier would carry the whole milking herd over in a morning.

I had thought of that system too. Moo beat you to it though!!!!!
Ya like I said, a second simple parlour might be the answer.
Simple parlour, crush, bore a new well and that would get it started.

All of this is 2-3 years down the road I should say. I have a few small investments to tidy up on the home farm first.

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 8:10pm

Because some people use it to buy machinery which will increase there cost base and really can't afford it . Always thought to spend money on things that make you money and don't rust and take the hit on the tax bill. Im not saying it's right

Farm365 · 27-09-2020 8:12pm

Robot on the 80 acres?

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:32pm

Farm365 wrote: »

Robot on the 80 acres?

Too costly I think.

Stan27 · 27-09-2020 8:34pm

My friend bought a zero grazer and is excellent for his farm.

Fragmented land, and had the yard at home in good condition.

Timmaay · 27-09-2020 8:36pm

Grueller wrote: »

I have the tax relief in mind Timmay, just getting land close to home is near impossible.
What is the cost differential between zero grazing and leafy bales do you know?

What I gather is very little cost difference when you factor in all machinery costs and actually pay yourself for your time on the tractor. I know one dairyfarmer who has robots (so he isn't tied up with milkings), he got a zg on demo during spring but ended up parking it up after like 3 days because he just didn't have the time to be going out and getting grass with it with all the other calving season jobs. My vote goes with building a large basic parlour on the outblock and milking your 100cows there if your gonna bother with all this, your killing 2 birds with one stone, not having to draw in grass to the home block and draw slurry back out.

degetme · 27-09-2020 8:37pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

Because some people use it to buy machinery which will increase there cost base and really can't afford it . Always thought to spend money on things that make you money and don't rust and take the hit on the tax bill. Im not saying it's right

I'm at a stage now where I'm fairly well set up grass wise and buildings but my machinery is vintage and it's hard putting up with no comfort. Breaking your back in old macheriny and having a big tax bill isn't that appealing

cjpm · 27-09-2020 8:39pm

Bufords idea is good, but a fierce wet spell of weather would be a fcuking disaster though with no sheds on 80 acres.

What kind of quality is the 80 acres? If it was very good you could set 1/4 to Maize, 1/4 to Barley, 1/4 oats under sown with grass and the last 1/4 grass. Rotate each year. High quality bales from the grass and pit the rest. You'd have top quality feeding for buffer feeding to complement the grass at home..... Keep the replacement heifers and calves on the 18 acres.

GrasstoMilk · 27-09-2020 8:40pm

If its 2 or 3 years away you could keep an eye on donedeal for well priced good parlour and milk tank and have it ready and waiting for when you are

Put a 100x20 tank up for your collecting yard with barriers either side
If it gets wet or dry you can buffer feed the 100 cows all around the perimeter of the tank

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 8:50pm

degetme wrote: »

I'm at a stage now where I'm fairly well set up grass wise and buildings but my machinery is vintage and it's hard putting up with no comfort. Breaking your back in old macheriny and having a big tax bill isn't that appealing

I suppose it's alot different for people at different stages. I just always would be of the view that machinery like a zero grazer is 2 expensive a machine to have sitting around a yard doing noting for most of the year . If you really do the figures including your own, time depressiation etc

Grueller · 27-09-2020 8:53pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

I suppose it's alot different for people at different stages. I just always would be of the view that machinery like a zero grazer is 2 expensive a machine to have sitting around a yard doing noting for most of the year . If you really do the figures including your own, time depressiation etc

Even if that machine might allow you to turn a low margin enterprise into a higher margin one? I mean maybe allowing land used for beef to be used for dairy instead?

trixi2011 · 27-09-2020 9:00pm

Grueller wrote: »

Even if that machine might allow you to turn a low margin enterprise into a higher margin one? I mean maybe allowing land used for beef to be used for dairy instead?

To be honest the parlour in my view even tho I did say I would hate milking in 2 yards would be more appealing that zero grazing in for the majority of the year . Plenty of things to reduce tax bills that will give you a better return than machinery . You would nearly put in a basic parlour for the price of a zero grazer . Plenty of lads doing it on contract to make use of silage ground in the shoulders

Grueller · 27-09-2020 9:05pm

trixi2011 wrote: »

To be honest the parlour in my view even tho I did say I would hate milking in 2 yards would be more appealing that zero grazing in for the majority of the year . Plenty of things to reduce tax bills that will give you a better return than machinery . You would nearly put in a basic parlour for the price of a zero grazer . Plenty of lads doing it on contract to make use of silage ground in the shoulders

I think you are probably right trixi. However as moo and Buford said, move the whole herd over for the main grazing season.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 27-09-2020 9:24pm

Grueller wrote: »

I had thought of that system too. Moo beat you to it though!!!!!
Ya like I said, a second simple parlour might be the answer.
Simple parlour, crush, bore a new well and that would get it started.

All of this is 2-3 years down the road I should say. I have a few small investments to tidy up on the home farm first.

Ha, great minds think alike, not the other one:D

A farm in my old discussion group were zero grazing, a bit bigger than you're thinking of with a good share of rented ground not accessible by roads.

1 man there whose whole day was drawing in grass and taking out slurry. I reckon some lads don't factor in taking the slurry back out, it's a costly and time consuming job and doubles the costs of zero grazing, I think.

mahoney_j · 27-09-2020 11:26pm

Grueller wrote: »

This is probably going to be a polarisinig thread.

The reason I am asking about it is that I have a fragmented farm. As some of ye will know I am a new entrant to dairying. I am also running 60 sucklers alongside the dairy operation.
My farm can graze about 60 cows around the parlour.
I have 18 acres 1.5 km away that I just cannot walk cows to.
I have 80 acres 7 miles away. I use this for silage and sucklers.
At the moment I have a batch of weanling heifers feeding, a batch of weanling bulls feeding,a batch of dry Autumn calving sucklers, a batch of Autmn calving sucklers that have actually calved, and a batch of bulling heifers. Among the sucklers I have some pedigree cows so I also have a batch of pedigree bulls 1.5 years old that will be sold next spring.
Add the dairy cows and that is 7 batches of cattle. Six of which make no, or nearly no money.

The 18 acres up the road is in really good shape. Soil indices are excellent, reseeded 6 years ago.
The outfarm is in need of reseeding. It was done 10 years ago but at the time indices were very poor and I ended up with a very open award and weeds got a hold. By no means is it bad, but not what I would like.

I would love to tidy up the batches of cattle by simply getting rid of sucklers and keeping more dairy cows. I would plan on transitioning into this by exiting sucklers and rearing my own dairy cross calves for a couple of years while building numbers. I would graze these on the 80 acre out farm.
I would propose buying a zero grazer to utilise the 18 acres close by allowing me to go to 85 cows comfortably.
In time I would plan on going to 100 cows by reseeding the out farm and using some of this for zero grazing as. I realise that 7 miles is a fair spin with a zero grazer but it would only need to be done intermittently as grazed grass and the closer out block would provide 85% of my grass requirement.
This would reduce my batches of stock to dairy cows, replacement heifers and whatever small amount of beef stock I decide to carry to utilise the remainder of the outfarm. The time saved by herding 4 extra batches, no calving of sucklers and stock just being generally easier to handle would, in my opinion, free up the time to do the zero grazing.
I would propose taking a load every second day and allowing cows access to it for a couple of hours after morning milking and before evening milking. A load does 80 cows for a day so should buffer at this rate for two days.
I have housing for sucklers that can convert to hold the increase to 100 cows at low cost.
Questions I have,
Is anyone on here zero grazing?
What are the real costs involved? I am finding varying figures online.
Feel free to shoot my plan down.

Multi cut silage and maize ,far more bang for your buck and no need to buy z grazed and give countless hours sitting in a tractor cutting loads of grass

jaymla627 · 28-09-2020 7:52am

trixi2011 wrote: »

Milking in 2 yards yourself would be a disaster In my view could you not just push numbers at home and hire someone to zoro grass for you in the shoulders. Buying a machine to enable you to get a tax relief is never a good idea unless it's essential to your business.

It totally depends on the level of service and prices you will get of local contractors if going the minimal machinery route, in the case here prices kept going up and the level of service got alot worse, so do mostly everything in house now, repayments/maintenance/diesel bills are working out less then what it was costing to pay contractors, with the way machinery prices are going alot of the machinery bought here the last few years has lost little to no value either

Say my name · 28-09-2020 8:02am

cjpm wrote: »

Bufords idea is good, but a fierce wet spell of weather would be a fcuking disaster though with no sheds on 80 acres.

What kind of quality is the 80 acres? If it was very good you could set 1/4 to Maize, 1/4 to Barley, 1/4 oats under sown with grass and the last 1/4 grass. Rotate each year. High quality bales from the grass and pit the rest. You'd have top quality feeding for buffer feeding to complement the grass at home..... Keep the replacement heifers and calves on the 18 acres.

Would that negate the need to buy in meal totally?
I think it's a thing that livestock farmers in this country will have to look at or be forced to look at is producing their own.
Work out your yearly use and then go by how many acres are required for that.
Haven't a clue on rations but would a beans and oats combicrop cover meal needs?

GrasstoMilk · 28-09-2020 8:42am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Multi cut silage and maize ,far more bang for your buck and no need to buy z grazed and give countless hours sitting in a tractor cutting loads of grass

But then you're in the territory of needing a diet feeder, you wont get the full potential of that feed with out one imo
Toyed with the idea of changing ours this year but holding out for now, did a proper dry cow and pre calving diet with it last winter/spring

We had a brilliant calving seadon and significant increase in milk solids which I would say a good bit was down to the diet they got pre and post calving

Theres a few other factors at play too but the diet was a key part imo

mahoney_j · 28-09-2020 8:53am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

But then you're in the territory of needing a diet feeder, you wont get the full potential of that feed with out one imo
Toyed with the idea of changing ours this year but holding out for now, did a proper dry cow and pre calving diet with it last winter/spring

We had a brilliant calving seadon and significant increase in milk solids which I would say a good bit was down to the diet they got pre and post calving

Theres a few other factors at play too but the diet was a key part imo

No need for diet feeder lots managing without one feeding maize,silage and beet ,(need a way of chopping beet obviously)I’d run a mile from z graze r and concentrrste on top quality forage instead

GrasstoMilk · 28-09-2020 8:57am

mahoney_j wrote: »

No need for diet feeder lots managing without one feeding maize,silage and beet ,(need a way of chopping beet obviously)I’d run a mile from z graze r and concentrrste on top quality forage instead

Might be managing with out one but doesn't mean they get the best utilisation of that feed
Our herd is by no means high yielding and I wouldn't be totally against having one around

mahoney_j · 28-09-2020 9:01am

jaymla627 wrote: »

It totally depends on the level of service and prices you will get of local contractors if going the minimal machinery route, in the case here prices kept going up and the level of service got alot worse, so do mostly everything in house now, repayments/maintenance/diesel bills are working out less then what it was costing to pay contractors, with the way machinery prices are going alot of the machinery bought here the last few years has lost little to no value either

Agree with lot of that but all that machinery requires labour ....most of slurry contracted out here ,pit silage ,reseeding .i spread all Fertliser bar for silage and any bales I do I now ,ted bring in and stack .slurry is the big one think t shoe is a great job no way I’d buy one as need more horse power as well and for first 6 months of year it’d be hard get a run at a day to get at it without stopping for milking ,feeding ,calving etc

mahoney_j · 28-09-2020 9:05am

GrasstoMilk wrote: »

Might be managing with out one but doesn't mean they get the best utilisation of that feed
Our herd is by no means high yielding and I wouldn't be totally against having one around

Disagree won’t be a million miles of 600 kgms this year and no diet feeder ,know lots of others in same boat would I like one ,,,,proably yes do I need one ....no ,silage all tested ,fresh grass tested weekly bloods analysed for minerals etc .fty in parlour silage ,straw at feed barrier maize will be added as buffer next spring no diet feeder

K.G. · 28-09-2020 9:15am

What type of cow do you have.i know someone who zeros all year round mainly to get more milk out of the cows than to milk more cows in an indoor robots and tmr.the slurry tank is never off one tractor.in general the horn for zeroing is wearing off in west cork but fellas are still using it spring and autumn and when they get stuck mainly done by contractors. Its a super job when you get stuck but we ll putting on extra 20 cows to be supplied by zero is not the same as 20 cows extra grazing.i d be more in favour of building a parlour on the bigger block and wintering at home and try and get someone to milk in the evening .i dont know how you manage 6 batches of cattle

mahoney_j · 28-09-2020 9:20am

K.G. wrote: »

What type of cow do you have.i know someone who zeros all year round mainly to get more milk out of the cows than to milk more cows in an indoor robots and tmr.the slurry tank is never off one tractor.in general the horn for zeroing is wearing off in west cork but fellas are still using it spring and autumn and when they get stuck mainly done by contractors. Its a super job when you get stuck but we ll putting on extra 20 cows to be supplied by zero is not the same as 20 cows extra grazing.i d be more in favour of building a parlour on the bigger block and wintering at home and try and get someone to milk in the evening .i dont know how you manage 6 batches of cattle

On the zg anyone here that’s on twitter will know of a lad in Waterford with robots and fully housed herd ,switched from z grazing to full tmr now for lots of different reasons I used to do a bit of z grazing spring/autumn switched to bales now and far better alternative both from utilisation by cow and ease of management

jaymla627 · 28-09-2020 10:14am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Agree with lot of that but all that machinery requires labour ....most of slurry contracted out here ,pit silage ,reseeding .i spread all Fertliser bar for silage and any bales I do I now ,ted bring in and stack .slurry is the big one think t shoe is a great job no way I’d buy one as need more horse power as well and for first 6 months of year it’d be hard get a run at a day to get at it without stopping for milking ,feeding ,calving etc

Scale plays a huge factor to be fair, for smaller herds it really dosent make sense but once you start getting yearly contractor bills the wrong side of 30k, going nearly all inhouse makes sense, once you have the work to justify the kit and labour

Grueller · 28-09-2020 10:16am

K.G. wrote: »

What type of cow do you have.i know someone who zeros all year round mainly to get more milk out of the cows than to milk more cows in an indoor robots and tmr.the slurry tank is never off one tractor.in general the horn for zeroing is wearing off in west cork but fellas are still using it spring and autumn and when they get stuck mainly done by contractors. Its a super job when you get stuck but we ll putting on extra 20 cows to be supplied by zero is not the same as 20 cows extra grazing.i d be more in favour of building a parlour on the bigger block and wintering at home and try and get someone to milk in the evening .i dont know how you manage 6 batches of cattle

And work 20 hrs a week off farm. Something has to give. All of this thought process is to increase the milking herd so that I can concentrate on that and go full time.

Grueller · 28-09-2020 10:22am

mahoney_j wrote: »

Multi cut silage and maize ,far more bang for your buck and no need to buy z grazed and give countless hours sitting in a tractor cutting loads of grass

MJ, would that plan be maybe 2 separate herds of 50, one in by day, one in by night all year round? That would actually suit my housing very well.
Or do you mean let them all buffer morning and evening and then all out onto the 40 acres to reduce demand on grass?

My 80 acres is not really suitable for tillage. 4 years in 5 it would work,year 5 if it came wet harvest time I would be goosed. Three to four cuts of high quality silage and young stock grazing out there. 18 acres maize on the block nearer home might work. Is 18 acres enough?

Panch18 · 28-09-2020 10:48am

I suppose the question for you Grueller is what are your ultimate goals

Is it to maximise cow numbers? (this doesn't always have to be the case)
Is it to maximise profits? (this doesn't always have to be the case)
Is it to make yourself extremely busy? (some people just love being busy)
Is it to get best lifestyle (this is very important and often overlooked, especially when the enthusiasm of being new wears off)

All of these are different goals, and all good in their own right, but depending on what you want will determine what you should do

Lads have written plenty about what they think you should do to increase cow numbers - and profit and workload

If it was me - i'd milk 65 cows on the home block and 18 acres, rear all calves to at least 18 months on the outfarm - if you are really after lifestyle run a couple of beef bulls with the cows and hook up with a good local herd for you 12 replacement heifer calves - but that's just me

jaymla627 · 28-09-2020 10:55am

Grueller wrote: »

MJ, would that plan be maybe 2 separate herds of 50, one in by day, one in by night all year round? That would actually suit my housing very well.
Or do you mean let them all buffer morning and evening and then all out onto the 40 acres to reduce demand on grass?

My 80 acres is not really suitable for tillage. 4 years in 5 it would work,year 5 if it came wet harvest time I would be goosed. Three to four cuts of high quality silage and young stock grazing out there. 18 acres maize on the block nearer home might work. Is 18 acres enough?

A average to good crop of maize on 18 acres would leave you with circa 350 ton of fed at 30% moisture which is 117 ton of dm, if you where buffering 80 cows 6kgs dm maize a day, it would give you 240 days of feed, biggest issue would be it heating as you aren't going across the pit face quick enough, plenty of lads baling it now in the leinster area but it adds another 10 a ton of a cost but your getting the full value of the maize with little wastage and no need for a special clamp for it

Timmaay · 28-09-2020 11:07am

Jezz your working part time also... OK what about the nuclear option, long term lease like 60 ac of the 80ac, eliminate all the beef. 250/ac, 15k tax free into your hand and just a dairy operation to worry about.

mahoney_j · 28-09-2020 11:18am

Grueller wrote: »

MJ, would that plan be maybe 2 separate herds of 50, one in by day, one in by night all year round? That would actually suit my housing very well.
Or do you mean let them all buffer morning and evening and then all out onto the 40 acres to reduce demand on grass?

My 80 acres is not really suitable for tillage. 4 years in 5 it would work,year 5 if it came wet harvest time I would be goosed. Three to four cuts of high quality silage and young stock grazing out there. 18 acres maize on the block nearer home might work. Is 18 acres enough?

For me no way I’d entertain 2 herds all ainmals on the one block either offer a buffer before pm milking or house at night and out by day for grazing season .the problem with a system like that the pen pushers and green mob look like it’ll be a non runner with nitrates /derogation restrictions

Grueller · 28-09-2020 11:34am

mahoney_j wrote: »

For me no way I’d entertain 2 herds all ainmals on the one block either offer a buffer before pm milking or house at night and out by day for grazing season .the problem with a system like that the pen pushers and green mob look like it’ll be a non runner with nitrates /derogation restrictions

Would the out farm not having stock on it offset that. I would have 100 cows, 25 followers and 3 bulls on 140ish acres?

Zero grazing

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