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The Queen’s Gambit | Netflix

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,076 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Just started this the other night. Three episodes in now. I’m enjoying it so far.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,620 ✭✭✭Treppen


    storker wrote: »
    Wow. This is a wonderful example of how shooting from the hip makes it harder to hit the target. :rolleyes:

    Players helping each other with adjournments - in times past when adjournments were a thing, it was done. When I played competitive chess I had fellow-players help with my adjourned games and I've participated in the analysis of theirs. The Russians in particular were renowned for it.

    A female player beating top flight GMs? Go tell Judit Polgar how ridiculous that is...and the GMs she defeated.

    There was no "pretending" that Beth Harmon was a legendary figure. TQB is a work of fiction and was never presented as anything else, so the Armstrong comparison is nonsense.

    The one place one could have land a blow against against "cheesiness" was with Townes turning up in Moscow and Beltik turning up at Benny's flat to assist with the analysis, giving the ending a bit of a romcom feel that I don't think it needed.

    It's interesting and not a little illuminating that so much criticism of The Queen's Gambit is from an "anti-woke propaganda" viewpoint...when the series follows very closely a novel that was written nearly forty years ago...

    Did you think the filming of her chess moves was good?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,503 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    love it , one episode to go


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    love it , one episode to go

    My wife was a bundle of tension going into the last episode. "She's going to feck it up for herself. I don't see this ending well..."


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    Treppen wrote: »
    Did you think the filming of her chess moves was good?

    I'd like to have seen more of what was happening on the board, but then I'm a chess player and represent a very tiny minority of the show's viewers. I would also have preferred it if the players at tournaments, with 90 minutes on each clock, weren't blitzing out their moves as if they only had 5 minutes. But in both cases I can understand why the makers made the choices they did, and in my opinion they were good choices because they seem to have worked.

    The novel's approach is not dissimilar, in the sense that it mostly describes the games and positions in general terms, and if I remember correctly there is only one game you could actually follow move-by-move*. The other descriptions of games are much like (sometimes word-for-word) the descriptions we hear from characters in the show, whether it's Beth describing a game afterwards or a commentator describing the play for a radio audience.

    "Charles Levy was supposed to be the best of them; she had his pieces tied up beyond help in a dozen moves; in six more she mated him on the back rank with a knight-rook combination." In the series, this is delivered as part of Beth's "after-action report" to Mr Shaibel.

    The game against Beltik is descibed "live"...

    "He raised his eyebrows almost imperceptibly and immediately took a pawn on the other side of the board. There was suddenly a diagonal open for his bishop. The bishop was aimed at the knight she’d wasted time bringing back, and she was down by another pawn..."

    "She ignored the queen when he brought it over and pushed her rook to the third rank, where it was free to move either right or left. She would get either his queen or a checkmate, whatever he did."




    *It's the game against Borgov in Mexico City - and is a Ruy Lopez Open Variation instead of a Rossolimo Sicilian.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭De Bhál


    Just finished it, that's good tv.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    Started watching after getting/hearing various noise about it, first 2 eps last night, loved it. I cannot wait until later, I feel a binge coming up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,522 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Started watching after getting/hearing various noise about it, first 2 eps last night, loved it. I cannot wait until later, I feel a binge coming up.
    I sat up till 3am the other night because I just couldn't not finish it!


    It was all a bit odd - very stylised and exaggerated - but seriously compelling viewing, and I still haven't quite figured out why.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,756 ✭✭✭Thecageyone


    I'm glad I finished it before it really blew up, can't look at any entertainment guide or review site now without it being front and centre. I probably would have skipped it, as I usually find the more over rated shows to be just that. It's decent, short and [bitterly] sweet but reviewers are falling over one another to exaggerate how good it actually is.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    I sat up till 3am the other night because I just couldn't not finish it!


    It was all a bit odd - very stylised and exaggerated - but seriously compelling viewing, and I still haven't quite figured out why.

    Thats it for me too, I don't know why I enjoyed it so much.

    Usually go for zombies/swords & sandals/satire.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,863 ✭✭✭Pentecost


    Thats it for me too, I don't know why I enjoyed it so much.

    Usually go for zombies/swords & sandals/satire.

    Me too I would have no interest in chess but they just did such a dsmn good job of hooking you on the character development. Anya Taylor Joy was brilliant. It felt like you could see her grow up in front of you, even if she wasn't the most convincing 13 year old. But you rooted for her all the way, I even got emotional at the end.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    The only thing worse than woke-ism is the middle aged men that throw a strop and see it everywhere even when it's not there


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,505 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    It wouldn't be netflix without some reverse sexist wokism though....the "it seems lacking an adams apple makes you play better" comment when asked about her stylishness by an interviewer was that moment.

    Forcing an agenda was my impression.

    Could be simply confirmation bias on your part.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,078 ✭✭✭IAMAMORON


    The only critique " wokewise" I could find was that I found it a stretch that she was in a multiracial orphanage and just so happened to get pally with a negro American. I struggled a bit there, I mean we are talking Kentucky in the 40s/50s, not quite deep south but you catch my drift. We've all watched Mississippi burning, they weren't allow dine together in that one. I am told that racial segregation was almost normalised in rural America back then.

    Although in saying that the elephant in the room was the janitor, who in the 3rd millenium would definitely have been tarred and feathered for being a paedarist :p and lost his job, " playing chess in the basement again Mr Janitor?.. , like phuck you were? cuff that pervert officer Johnson, let him hang "

    But the series is a joy, I have loved it so far, saving the last 2 eps for after my weekly Friday night booze binge.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    The only critique " wokewise" I could find was that I found it a stretch that she was in a multiracial orphanage and just so happened to get pally with a negro American.

    And yet that's how it was written on 1983 so we can't really put it down to "wokeness" unless we crate a new category called "pre-wokeness". :D

    I don't know to what degree Tevis researched life in orphanages during the period in question, but I think he was from San Francisco so may have had more exposure to other races than your average Kentuckian. It's also possible that at the time, orphans were considered a lower form of life for whom segregation wasn't deemed worth the trouble of implementing. If places like the Methuen Home were being paid by the state for its charges, then a black one would have been just as good as a white one. With what we know about how such kids were treated in Ireland, there isn't much that seems too far-fetched.

    With accounts of Irish experiences in mind, I half-expected Mrs Deardorff to take Beth's teddy bear from her the day she arrived.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,688 ✭✭✭storker


    IAMAMORON wrote: »
    Although in saying that the elephant in the room was the janitor, who in the 3rd millenium would definitely have been tarred and feathered for being a paedarist :p and lost his job, " playing chess in the basement again Mr Janitor?.. , like phuck you were? cuff that pervert officer Johnson, let him hang "

    Just playing chess even by himself would probably be enough for him to be canned today (probably then too). And as for the hidden whiskey stash...


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Myself and the gf finished this last night, said I'd throw a few thoughts down.

    Generally enjoyed it - beautifully shot, well acted, they nailed the setting, I'll echo everyone in praising the costumes, they were excellent.

    I like chess a lot so would've liked more explicit shots of the board so you know what's going on/would've liked if the chess games themselves and how they unfolded played a greater role in the plot - it doesn't, so the chess itself is actually relatively incidental to the plot. That's a minor gripe though, they definitely made the right call for appealing to the general audience.

    Otherwise all I can say is that I liked the show, but can't particularly pinpoint why - I found Beth (and most of the characters honestly) to be quite unlikeable, she took herself very seriously, she was haughty and shallow, fickle with those who helped her after she'd gotten what she wanted (pushing Harry away, blanking Benny and then going asking for money only after her self indulgent dismissal of the Christian group, not to mention having to risk Jolene's savings and future just because she couldn't swallow her own pride...but worst of all never repaying OR EVEN CONTACTING poor Mr. Scheibel, literally didn't even acknowledge the person who gave her her start in chess and thereafter only to assuage her guilt after being prompted by their death). Her positive aspects derived mainly from godgiven talents...basically, excepting her tragic origin story, the character had almost nothing endearing about them - I found myself rooting for her less and less as the series progressed, though the ending was always going to be guaranteed.

    Benny was a ridiculous and unbelievable character - I literally started laughing the first time I saw him on screen, completely took me out of it. It's like they took a 9 year old's conception of how to make a character "cool" and applied that "Hmmm let's give him a leather jacket..and a cowboy hat....and a knife! That'll definitely make him seem rugged and mysterious and not at all like an autistic school shooter".

    On the whole "woke" thing...I definitely think a lot of the show's detractors are trying to make too much of an issue of this, seeing things that aren't there to back up their view. That being said I also feel many fans of the show and some on this thread are trying a bit too hard to disregard some things.

    Pretty much all of the (white) male characters are initially either rude or mean or ugly or arrogant arseholes (barring Townes who is gay), but hey maybe that's just how the 60's were, I wasn't there. While the character Beth herself wasn't like this, a lot of the show's exposition laboured the point of "Women's struggle in world of men" for example noting that one reason behind Beth's popularity amongst the Russians is that Nona Gaprindashvili, the women's chess champion from the Soviet Union never faced men, so Beth becomes their champion of equality. This is totally made up - in real life, Gaprindashvili did play men regularly in the 1960s, even once taking part in a qualifying tournament for the men's USSR championship. Other needless You Go Girl! moments like “It’s much easier to play chess without the burden of an Adam’s apple.” or “Men are gonna come along and wanna teach you things. You just let them blow-by, and you go on ahead and do just what the hell you feel like.” - again relatively minimal stuff, though they may elicit a small roll of the eyes.
    Finally I was disappointed in the end to see an interesting character like Jolene being wasted in pursuit of the tired "Magical black person" trope, who comes to save Beth with her folksy orphan wisdom.
    So yeah in my view there were a couple of needless "woke" aspects to the show, but not to the extent being suggested and certainly no reason to disregard an otherwise good show.

    All in all a decent, well-paced and fresh show, 7/10 would recommend.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    ...

    Benny was a ridiculous and unbelievable character - I literally started laughing the first time I saw him on screen, completely took me out of it. It's like they took a 9 year old's conception of how to make a character "cool" and applied that "Hmmm let's give him a leather jacket..and a cowboy hat....and a knife! That'll definitely make him seem rugged and mysterious and not at all like an autistic school shooter".
    ...


    I laughed too but he's the exact type of character you'd expect to find in the chess world. He has a 9 year old's concept of what is cool and therefore goes through with it. I knew a few people like that throughout my life, who would pick a few items of clothing that were completely out of fashion and tried to pin their personality around it. These kinda people tend to be somewhat reclusive and geeky in my experience, hence the chess world is a perfect fit.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,505 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    On the whole "woke" thing...I definitely think a lot of the show's detractors are trying to make too much of an issue of this, seeing things that aren't there to back up their view. That being said I also feel many fans of the show and some on this thread are trying a bit too hard to disregard some things.

    Pretty much all of the (white) male characters are initially either rude or mean or ugly or arrogant arseholes (barring Townes who is gay), but hey maybe that's just how the 60's were, I wasn't there. While the character Beth herself wasn't like this, a lot of the show's exposition laboured the point of "Women's struggle in world of men" for example noting that one reason behind Beth's popularity amongst the Russians is that Nona Gaprindashvili, the women's chess champion from the Soviet Union never faced men, so Beth becomes their champion of equality. This is totally made up - in real life, Gaprindashvili did play men regularly in the 1960s, even once taking part in a qualifying tournament for the men's USSR championship. Other needless You Go Girl! moments like “It’s much easier to play chess without the burden of an Adam’s apple.” or “Men are gonna come along and wanna teach you things. You just let them blow-by, and you go on ahead and do just what the hell you feel like.” - again relatively minimal stuff, though they may elicit a small roll of the eyes.
    Finally I was disappointed in the end to see an interesting character like Jolene being wasted in pursuit of the tired "Magical black person" trope, who comes to save Beth with her folksy orphan wisdom.
    So yeah in my view there were a couple of needless "woke" aspects to the show, but not to the extent being suggested and certainly no reason to disregard an otherwise good show.

    All in all a decent, well-paced and fresh show, 7/10 would recommend.

    I don't think I'd put of these in the 'woke' category. They mostly reminded me of Wheaton's law - don't be a dick, which is well known (or should be) to anyone who has been online a decent amount of time, before woke was a thing. Thinking back to secondary school myself and you'll always find women who were well able to stand up for themselves. A good retort is a handy way of telling someone to feck off and I don't think the sentiment or content is always intended as comment on gender, it just happens to be part of the bullseye. A good old fashion GFTO is just that. Or in this part of the world it would be variations of: cop on to yourself, lad. I never felt the show was trying to make big feminist statements, but then I was mostly hooked on the chess and her self-destructiveness and how she generally equipped herself. Green screen for Moscow wasn't the best, tbh.

    I did very much enjoy the finale. There were some nice touching moments, such as
    the news clippings Mr. Shaibel had gathered over the years. I felt her victory had little to do with her gender in terms of the show's tone, tbh. Particularly liked the scene where she met the locals in the park. Not sure if they cast the gentlemen there to look like an older Mr. Shaibel. Glad she got sober too.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,662 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    its a good show, ive watched 3 episodes so far, I probably wouldn't have bothered with it but it fits the family category. There is something a bit gloomy and sterile about it though

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,300 ✭✭✭sodacat11


    I liked the Queen's Gambit and agree with 7/10 rating. Like all American offerings it is a bit shallow and superficial with the main character always looking like a supermodel and never with a hair out of place. There have been some fantastic subtitled European offerings on t.v recently like The Bridge, Public, Enemy, Gomorrah and The Tunnel all of which have strong characters, strong plots and an air of realism that we just don't get with American t.v. . I understand that everything has to be made simple enough for American audiences to follow but to me what is left is like Big Mac compared to Filet Mignon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭cdgalwegian


    sodacat11 wrote: »
    I liked the Queen's Gambit and agree with 7/10 rating. ... what is left is like Big Mac compared to Filet Mignon.
    Yeah, it's thoroughly enjoyably, yet in the end vacuous. Lots of memorable moments, without them being 'meaningful' moments, if you know what I mean.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,973 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    I have watched up to episode 5 or 6 and kinda sat in during episode 6 or 7 last night (the one that she and Benny played each other for $5 bets at a university), but I think that's me done with it now.

    Simply not grabbing me like some of the other highly rated series.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    storker wrote: »
    It's a drama about the dangers from within that can come with genius.

    Although her opponents are 99% male, it has nothing to do with the patriarchy. The main character is interested in chess, not her own gender and in fact gets irritated when stories about her focus on that aspect. She wants to talk about chess, not sexual politics.

    From the novel (repeated almost verbatim in the series):

    “[...] it’s mostly about my being a girl.”
    “Well, you are one.”
    “It shouldn’t be that important,” Beth said. “They didn’t print half the things I told them. They didn’t tell about Mr. Shaibel. They didn’t say anything about how I play the Sicilian.”


    If it's feminism, it's the old fashioned kind and not the more recent victimhood-focused kind. In that sense, the series can be viewed as a breath of fresh air.

    And yet she sleeps with all the guys who help her. She does have agency for sure but I could tell that it was written by a man.

    Also the portrayal of her period as a major issue at a difficult time, and the fact that a female character brings it up later making it a big deal. Women's bodily functions are a big deal for men for example.

    I don't know. 'victimhood'?? the dialogue around suffering causes discomfort and people shy away from discomfort as it causes shame so there is a push to silence people expressing their experiences and labelling their experiences as 'victimhood' in order to ironically discount it, even though the word victim gives a certain gravity to those experiences. Sorry but your comment made me cringe a little bit there.

    Also she doesn't really face any overt sexism or real challenges which isn't reflective of the time, Peggy in Madmen is a far more realistic portrayal of what women faced. It's definitely a flight of fancy, very very safe and doesn't want to make the viewer uncomfortable.


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