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Housemate Problems

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  • 19-11-2020 2:21pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi All,

    Long time lurker and regular user, hoping for some excellent PI advice.

    I bought an apartment last year and spend most of last year settling in - slowly doing bits in the apt and buying bits and pieces. I always said I would get a tenant under the rent-a-room scheme; to help with the mortgage, and also to have someone in the house so I wouldn't be living alone.
    I wasn't looking for someone to be my best friend, ideally the odd cup of tea and a chat, basically a comfortable atmosphere. I'd lived in various houseshares over the years with friends and strangers, both weird and wonderful, and all sorts of uncomfortable atmospheres, so was rather enjoying my own space.

    With COVID, I delayed advertising for a tenant, and ended up spending the 1st lockdown in a family member's house as I am WFH. While this was lovely, I could not stay there indefinitely, and just leave apartment sitting empty!

    A friend of a friend (someone I'd have known socially years ago but didn't keep in touch with) was moving to where my apartment is, and heard through mutual friends that I had been thinking about taking in a tenant. I agreed to take them in, my memories of them that they were nice and responsible, fairly quiet - all in all the kind of tenant that I'd want. I only knew them vaguely and was fairly sure we'd get on grand. I offered mates rates on rent, much less than what a room in the area would cost.

    Anyway long story short - living together and WFH during lockdown has put a magnifying glass on things. I'm an easy-going, get on with things kind of person, and even though there are lots of things I don't like about COVID and miss lots of things, I appreciate I'm lucky to have a stable job where I can WFH for the foreseeable and pay my mortgage without any worries.

    My new tenant, from what I remember was always a private person, but its like living with someone in witness protection. I just about know their job. I've asked how they are settling in to the new job, general chit chat, etc, but it is like dragging blood from a stone. They just have no interest in any sort of conversation at all, barely a hello and it is making me uncomfortable in my own home.

    I get the impression that they thought moving here and their new job, would be a great fresh start - they have lots of friends in the area to socialise with and the reality of a COVID lockdown contrasts greatly with what they envisaged.

    Friends keep saying to me, it must be so nice to have this person there for company and I have to mumble on and change the subject, they would know this person about as well as I do and some more. I don't know if they'd believe how cold they are to me. They won't go into the kitchen/living room if I'm in there, and spend most of the evening on the phone in their room. There is the odd passive aggressive and snarky comment, and they'd know that that kind of things gets to me. I can't see what I could have done to make such tension.

    They are quiet defensive, so I don't think a conversation will bring about any improvement. I hate any sort of confrontation and they are far better at verbalising that I am.

    Do I just have to grow a pair and ask them to move out? I cant see any other way of getting my home back to a homely atmosphere.

    We wouldn't be close at all, so not very concerned about the friendship - more worried about the story our mutual friends would be told!

    Can anyone see this from their side, what should I do?
    Thanks


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    #2
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hey, op.

    Congrats on buying your own place :)

    I would feel pretty disappointed in your shoes too, the least you would expect is a comfortable atmosphere and a little bit of banter!

    If I were you, I would cut straight to the chase and explain that you would like to/have to end the tenancy and that you would like to give her/him notice and time to find a suitable alternative. It might be kinder to say that you would prefer to live alone or to say that a family member needs the room, but I suppose you could say that you don't think it's working for you on a personal level.

    But, I would check your rights and obligations as a live-in landlord before any conversation.

    It might be worth having a chat beforehand and seeing if the person is open to a friendlier relationship, maybe a movie night or ask them if they want to have that cup of tea with you? If one last attempt doesn't work, at least you'll know you tried! Some people are just incredibly quiet.

    If you keep things quite civil and emotionless hopefully there won't be any negative feelings. Best of luck though!


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    #3
    Danni21
    Registered Users Posts: 137 ✭✭Danni21


    Have you spoken to any mutual friends about her since she's been there? Seems weird to me, mutual friend moves in, you're kind enough to give her mates rates? Surely the odd conversation about Bob your mutual friend would have naturally come up?

    It just seems weird that someone would be defensive with you for no reason? Are you trying to talk to her a lot during the day, ie working hours? Maybe that is a reason she is short with you?

    I don't know OP it seems odd that a mutual friend of a friend would behave like this for no reason.

    Perhaps just have a chat with her ask her how she is finding living there and how she is coping with the COVID wfh situation? It's challenging times for everyone. It might not even be about YOU that she's behaving like this.


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    #4
    hawley
    Registered Users Posts: 1,216 ✭✭✭hawley


    Do you have a tenancy contract with her? You probably made a mistake in not having a meeting before allowing her to move in. If you have no agreement I would give her notice. You shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable in your own property.


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    #5
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    You can ask them to move out no bother but to be fair if you are going to rely on tenants to contribute to a homely atmosphere, any other tenant might be a disappointment too. There is no obligation to be sociable, even if they seem pleasant when you meet them.

    It's also a Covid year, they might be depressed or bothered by something. You seem fairly chipper, and right now for some people a chirpy chat is the last thing they want if they have something going on.


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    #6
    lunamoon
    Registered Users Posts: 263 ✭✭lunamoon


    hawley wrote: »
    Do you have a tenancy contract with her? You probably made a mistake in not having a meeting before allowing her to move in. If you have no agreement I would give her notice. You shouldn't have to feel uncomfortable in your own property.

    It's a rent-a-room. There doesn't need to be a contract.

    If it was me OP, I'd probably tell them that you just don't think this is working out and would prefer to live alone.


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    #7
    Augme
    Registered Users Posts: 5,205 ✭✭✭Augme


    You should really set ground rules about what you expect from a tenant, especially when you have all the power as you own the place. You can't force people to have a chat with you. But if you want to go down that road you should let people k ow that's what will be expected of them.

    Often I don't particularly care about conversations with my housemates or how there work day went. Ive no interest and I have no interest in pretending either. If that is a problem for them then it's their problem to deal with, not for me to starting changing my behaviour to suit them. But the joys of lvijg with multiple people is you can get away with this a lot easier without it being problem.

    Possibly sounds like your housemate is probbaly just tired of having to be your only social outlet every night of the week?


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    #8
    AmberAmber
    Registered Users Posts: 191 ✭✭AmberAmber


    Mates rates... when you under value your self or something belong to you... it's often disrespected. That is what comes to mind when I saw mates rates written in your post. Maybe they thought they were going to stay for free !!


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    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Quiet, private, unintrusive and keeps herself to herself - sounds like a lot of people's perfect housemate!

    But if its not a fit for you, its not a fit for you. I would talk to her about her finding a new place for herself, but after Christmas maybe.


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    #10
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,412 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Augme wrote: »
    Possibly sounds like your housemate is probbaly just tired of having to be your only social outlet every night of the week?

    This was my immediate first thought, OP. I'd love a housemate like your lodger - my housemate never stops talking and it's actually driving me demented. And that's coming from someone who's considered a talker!

    I know she's missing the office and her social outlets but I'm finding it *incredibly* difficult to be the "everything" she clearly needs at the moment. We've been friends since we were 2 which is making it even more difficult for me to express that I need space.

    I think you need to respect your lodger's boundaries and accept that you both clearly want and need different things from the living arrangement. And if you can't do that then you can just ask her to move out, it's your house. But as others have pointed out, you may just run into the same problem again. Unfortunately you can't make "Be my friend" part of the house rules.


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    #11
    Calypso Realm
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭Calypso Realm


    Firstly, I would try and see if there is indeed something bothering them -though I don't think that's any excuse to be acting very cold with a housemate in any circumstances, as I'm sure they're aware of their behaviour and the potential impact on those around them. or maybe not in this case! The very least they could do is explain it, out of consideration for others, that is if there is something else bothering them in the first place. A bit self-indulgent, in my view especially in the current climate when things are stressful enough. Furthermore I find it odd given you own the apartment and they must be aware they could risk being made homeless! (All this remind me of the colleague we once had who refused to speak to anyone in the morning, virtually ignoring everyone's greeting etc until he 'thawed' out later in the day, everyday!) Ridiculous behaviour!

    I would start by asking them in a concerned way if they're OK since you've noticed they're a bit down recently (or whatever work you'd like to use) and take it from there. You never know where it might lead and discover there is something else going on. This might be enough to see an improvement.

    Either way, I don't think you should have to put up with this uncomfortable atmosphere in your own home and yes, I would ask him/her to leave!


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    #12
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    It costs nothing to be civil.
    And a little bit of small talk doesn't kill.
    The amount of people on boards that seem to think that even acknowledging the other housemate is akin to indept conversation is incomprehensible to me.

    Op, you've been very fair to this person. Lower than normal rent, understanding that you're not looking for a friend, mearly a little civility in your own home. It's notuch to ask from them.

    For your own sake I'd be asking them to leave. You don't deserve to have someone like this in your home.


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    #13
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    My lodger is an introvert, said it to me when they viewed the room. Stays mostly in their room, I did one dinner for us a few weeks ago and then they randomly joined me in the sitting room one night a few weeks ago but other than that I only see them every few days. Suits me fine.

    OP if you're happy to live alone it sounds like you don't need the company. So take the financial comfort and consider it the next best thing to living alone.


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    #14
    JustAThought
    Registered Users Posts: 5,323 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    I hsd similar -I tried asking & suggested they could have private use of one of the other rooms, told them what nights I would always be out/away on but they just lived, ate and socialised (online) in their (large) bedroom & that was that.It made me feel as thou I’d done something but I hadn’t & they assured me they were happy. But rarely greeted me or spoke apart from s hello when our patjs occasionally crossed every two weeks or so.All money due was aid remotely by transfer & anything needed by text. I found thus teally difficult, a bit hurtful & very odd but they were happy & stayed a year or so until they changed jobs.

    They were not the only share I had like that.

    Some people are just genuinely dead quiet (and odd/‘different’). You won’t be doing them any favours having the conversation or asking them to move over Christmas/January .

    It might be worthwhile considering a conversation for settling in and seeing what issues s/he may have ( boiler questions, need more storage space, anything you are doing that is driving her crazy etc) and see if anything arises from that.

    What did you say about lwngth of time to rent when you agreed a/he could move in? I always find it helpful to agree a length of time in principle like a year or 8 months or whatever
    they need but agree that if we are really unhappy or it just doan’t work out that we can agree to end it after a month or so with a full deposit returned - which almost never happened. What did you agree when s/he moved in? And if you didn’t take the opportunity ‘now that they have been there a while and had time to feel comfortable and settle in’ to discuss it. They may be looking for a way or or it may be aN opportunity to put a limit of 6
    months on it - so by April they would know to be looking and by May you would be a couple of grand up for some emergency fund or repair and know you did the right thing & won’t make the same mistake willingly again!


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    #15
    HildaOgdenx
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,516 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    'Friends keep saying to me, it must be so nice to have this person there for company and I have to mumble on and change the subject, they would know this person about as well as I do and some more. I don't know if they'd believe how cold they are to me. They won't go into the kitchen/living room if I'm in there, and spend most of the evening on the phone in their room. There is the odd passive aggressive and snarky comment, and they'd know that that kind of things gets to me.I can't see what I could have done to make such tension.

    They are quiet defensive, so I don't think a conversation will bring about any improvement. I hate any sort of confrontation and they are far better at verbalising that I am.

    Do I just have to grow a pair and ask them to move out? I cant see any other way of getting my home back to a homely atmosphere.

    We wouldn't be close at all, so not very concerned about the friendship - more worried about the story our mutual friends would be told!'

    I get what other posters are saying about this person being their ideal flatmate. The bits in bold stand out to me though. That suggests that the two of you have clashed, in some way.

    OP, very few people 'like confrontation'. There's nothing wrong, however, in making your points quietly and assertively in a given situation. In this case, the arrangement is not working, for either of you really. So, yes, I think you would be better off asking her to move out.

    And honestly, others won't care that much about what happened or what story gets told to them, by either of you.


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    #16
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi All,

    OP here, thanks for all your responses - it is great to get some different takes on things!

    We wouldn't see each other during the day - we are both WFH, but in separate parts of the house, so might see each other in the kitchen when boiling the kettle or grabbing breakfast/lunch.

    Its interesting what some of you have said about my expectations. I wasn't expecting an overly friendly relationship - like I said we won't have kept in touch and our lives took different paths in recent years. I suppose I was probably a bit naive in thinking that our friendly chats from occasional meetings would transfer into our living arrangements. I would be quiet myself and not overly chatty. Like I said I really wasnt looking for a buddy, just a comfortable atmosphere, and not dreading hearing their key in the door type scenario!

    On reflection, I think some of my discomfort relates to my last houseshare where the atmosphere was toxic, and I'd hate to go back to that again - living on my own was such a relief after that.
    I've possibly become accustomed to living alone and little things like moving my stuff and not cleaning as I would is probably bothering me more than I realised. the COVID bubble of being in the house constantly is probably just making it fester a bit more.

    I'm going to have a chat with one of our mutual friends at the weekend to see if they know anything. They would be much more social than I, so I suspect that the isolation of lockdown and lack of socialisation is probably affecting them more than me.
    I've told myself , I'll give it a few more weeks, until after Christmas at least. Living with essentially a stranger needs adjustment on both sides, so I'm going to give it a bit more time and also be a bit more upfront with them about the little things that are bothering me, like moving my stuff.

    Thanks all


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    #17
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    What about opening up a conversation the next time you meet at the kettle about the lockdown and ask how they are finding it?

    Both me and OH are WFH since the beginning. And sometimes I'm sure we get on each other's nerves a bit. But we talk a lot about how 'groundhoggy' it feels some days and communicate if we are finding it's getting to us on any given day.

    They may be struggling a lot. They might have had different expectations of you too. Even a "hey, don't know about you but lockdown is getting tedious for me, do you fancy getting into a netflix series with me as a distraction?" serves as a neutral way to hang out, chat and develop some sort of rapport.


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    #18
    Calypso Realm
    Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭Calypso Realm


    HouseTension wrote: »
    Hi All, Friends keep saying to me, it must be so nice to have this person there for company and I have to mumble on and change the subject, they would know this person about as well as I do and some more. I don't know if they'd believe how cold they are to me. They won't go into the kitchen/living room if I'm in there, and spend most of the evening on the phone in their room. There is the odd passive aggressive and snarky comment, and they'd know that that kind of things gets to me. I can't see what I could have done to make such tension.s

    This struck me when i first read your post but I forgot to mention last time but I wonder if the reason the friends are asking is because they suspect or heard all is not rosy in the garden? Either because they have some idea of what s/he is like or perhaps has said something to someone along the way? After all this is the way some people ie the friends, would sound you out!

    In fact, although I could be wrong, the snarky comments/passive aggressive behaviour would suggest to me that it might be harbouring some grudge against you. (Jeez why folk do this without coming out and saying it beats me but I guess I'm different.) Likewise in your position I would have said something before now!

    Do you know anything about his/her prior living arrangements? Anyone who's lived with him/her before?


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    #19
    cloudatlas
    Registered Users Posts: 3,709 ✭✭✭cloudatlas


    A friend of mine had a similar situation recently but worse, the person didn't pay rent on time, was very sulky and sullen made them feel uncomfortable so she had to ask them to leave and she has now found someone lovely to move in. The person had moved to the area from abroad and I think it was a bit of a shock to them but that's no excuse for immaturity.

    There doesn't need to be a story. 'It just wasn't the right fit'.


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    #20
    tara73
    Registered Users Posts: 2,341 ✭✭✭tara73


    HouseTension wrote: »
    they'd believe how cold they are to me. They won't go into the kitchen/living room if I'm in there, and spend most of the evening on the phone in their room. There is the odd passive aggressive and snarky comment, and they'd know that that kind of things gets to me. I can't see what I could have done to make such tension.

    They are quiet defensive, so I don't think a conversation will bring about any improvement. I hate any sort of confrontation and they are far better at verbalising that I am.


    this is what stood out to me , Op. what about the snarky and passive agressive comments? That's not on and I fully understand it makes you feel uncomfortable in your own home. Nothing wrong with being private and staying in your own room, but snarky comments are not on. You didn't go into much more detail what they are about and how they are articulated, but if this goes on it's completely understandable you show him/her the door (in a polite way).


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    #21
    dubstarr
    Registered Users Posts: 13,762 ✭✭✭✭dubstarr


    Im torn.You rented a room out ,i dont know why you expect that person to be your bestie.

    Like ok you say hello,make small talk.But im sensing you want more than that, which the housemate didnt sign up for.

    Maybe the pa and snarky remarks are because you are not respecting their bounderies.

    I think a chat is in order, see if they want to stay there or move.


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