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First venture into measuring power

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    #32
    space2ground1
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    To put a lid on the thread for now, I just wanted to say thanks again for all the advice.

    I'm a proud owner of a 4iii left side meter and took my first spin over the weekend. It seems fine and we'll see how I go on an FTP during the week.

    Next I need to find a bog standard version of TrainerRoad or something like that to talk to my HR, Cadence, Power and Speed. All I want is to see the graph and data on a screen in front of me but $20 a month for the most basic functions within TrainerRoad seems beyond what I need.

    My Garmin tri HRM is Ant+ only so I'd need a new one of those and a 130 Plus to see the data on the road.

    I'll also need to get some sort of second job at nights and weekends to pay for it all. :o

    Thanks again!


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    #33
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    see if you can get a second hand head unit, (maybe 100 euro?) that allows you to load workouts (Garmin head unit & software gives ability to create free workouts and download them to the head unit from your pc, and you can do the workouts indoors or out doors), that will show you all of the ant+ data you can shake a stick at during the ride, and then use the likes of strava & intervals.icu for tracking the data over time - free versions of both, so no monthly fee.

    ftp - there are a few protocols, the gold standard is the 20 minute test, which is horrible. do a warm up, do 5 minutes full gas, take a good recovery cycling easy, then 20 minutes as hard as you can. FTP will be 95% of your power for the 20 minutes. 8 minute test is less horrible, but slight less accurate apparently.

    enjoy (if you enjoy it you are doing it wrong!)


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    #34
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 6,952 ✭✭✭G1032


    How much of a lag, if any, do you guys see in power data being transmitted to the head unit? I have somewhere in the region of a 2 to 3 second delay with a ramp up in power being displayed on the head unit. Longer than that waiting for power to drop to zero after I stop pedalling (don't really mind that). The delay in ramp up is more of a pita.


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    #35
    lennymc
    Registered Users Posts: 6,458 ✭✭✭lennymc


    could be smoothing - live power data is. very jumpy, and to get around that, the data can be smoothed over a period of time. Check in the settings for your device to see if smoothing is enabled.

    some info about it here - https://powermetercity.com/2016/10/02/power-meter-tips-and-tricks/


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    #36
    Paul_Mc1988
    Registered Users Posts: 748 ✭✭✭Paul_Mc1988


    G1032 wrote: »
    How much of a lag, if any, do you guys see in power data being transmitted to the head unit? I have somewhere in the region of a 2 to 3 second delay with a ramp up in power being displayed on the head unit. Longer than that waiting for power to drop to zero after I stop pedalling (don't really mind that). The delay in ramp up is more of a pita.

    You may have the device set to display 3 or 5 second power. I much prefer this as it doesn't bounce around as much.


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    #37
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    space2ground1 wrote: »
    Next I need to find a bog standard version of TrainerRoad or something like that to talk to my HR, Cadence, Power and Speed. All I want is to see the graph and data on a screen in front of me but $20 a month for the most basic functions within TrainerRoad seems beyond what I need.


    GoldenCheetah has a train function, just pair it with a cheap ANT+ usb key
    space2ground1 wrote: »
    My Garmin tri HRM is Ant+ only so I'd need a new one of those and a 130 Plus to see the data on the road.

    Why would you need a new HRM? You will need an ANT+ bike computer if you want it on the road.


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    #38
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    I've spare TrainerRoad referrals if you want to try it anyway. PM your name and email address if you want the free month.

    fwiw it's much more than just HR/ Cadence/ Power, but only you can decide if the plans/ plan builder, calendar and analysis are value for money for you. Local terrain doesn't really work for me (I'd rather the turbo than outside hill repeats), but they have outdoor workouts with Garmin and Wahoo head units too.


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    #39
    G1032
    Registered Users Posts: 6,952 ✭✭✭G1032


    Paul_Mc1988 wrote: »
    You may have the device set to display 3 or 5 second power. I much prefer this as it doesn't bounce around as much.

    I have that setting, (3s) but I'm specifically on about actual power and the lag in actual power


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    #40
    comete
    Registered Users Posts: 384 ✭✭comete


    I have a dual sided 4iiii pm, 170mm 50/34 r7000, I’m thinking of selling in the very near future if anyone is still looking.

    It’s in pretty good nick aside from a scuff on the bottom of one of the crank arms where it rubbed a cerb.

    Bought in March of this year purely to ride Zwift on a dumb trainer, probably done about 2000-3000km max, mix of turbo and road.

    Not sure what to ask, and need to find a replacement chainset first.


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    #41
    space2ground1
    Registered Users Posts: 501 ✭✭✭space2ground1


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    GoldenCheetah has a train function, just pair it with a cheap ANT+ usb key


    Why would you need a new HRM? You will need an ANT+ bike computer if you want it on the road.



    I thought if I'm to see the HR data on a laptop screen when I'm using the turbo, it'll need to come from bluetooth. No bluetooth on the Garmin tri HR. I didnt realise I could get an adapter. Thanks for the tip!

    I have an old Ant+ head unit but it doesn't do power.

    Just finished my first ftp test this evening. Did the 20 minute one.. (10 easy, 5 hard, 5 easy, 20 hard) and nearly puked. At least its a benchmark anyway to start from!


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    #42
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    paddydriver wrote: »
    I too would go Assioma or Garmin Vector if they were SPD-SL - I just prefer not changing cleat system. Have read of a patent issue and possibly it opening up soon so that they will be able to go SPD-SL on next iterations, and also possible Shimano coming out with their own pedal based PM's soon when new Dura Ace/Ultegra group sets arrive.

    Potential good news for you this year, albeit rumour land: https://cyclingtips.com/2021/02/leaked-favero-assioma-shimano-compatible-power-meter-pedal/


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    #43
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Really hope that's true, and includes spd pedals. I'd probably risk a warranty exclusion for pod strikes if I kept the rest of the warranty.


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    #44
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Really hope that's true, and includes spd pedals. I'd probably risk a warranty exclusion for pod strikes if I kept the rest of the warranty.

    I get the impression it won't as Shimano seem reluctant to deal with others. I imagine it will be a spindle that you can use with certain Shimano pedals. Either way, I'd be happy with that. Have a 4iiii dual sided on back order but it could be months. Picked as 4iiii allow you to split them as one is not a slave to the other so you can have two single sided PMs if you want to quickly add one to another bike for a short while. I do like my SPD SL pedals though, so if this comes out in time, I might cancel that order and go for these.


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    #45
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    CramCycle wrote: »
    I get the impression it won't as Shimano seem reluctant to deal with others. I imagine it will be a spindle that you can use with certain Shimano pedals.
    Yes, I meant that it if it was a common spindle across SPD and SPD-SL. So if it will fit certain SPD-SL pedals it'll fit certain SPD pedals? I don't know whether there's common spindles in shimano road and mtb pedals though.

    I've been tempted a few times for the current hack to get them working on MTB pedals - if they're selling with the intent of fitting you're own body, it removes a barrier to me.


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    #46
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Yes, I meant that it if it was a common spindle across SPD and SPD-SL. So if it will fit certain SPD-SL pedals it'll fit certain SPD pedals? I don't know whether there's common spindles in shimano road and mtb pedals though.

    I've been tempted a few times for the current hack to get them working on MTB pedals - if they're selling with the intent of fitting you're own body, it removes a barrier to me.

    I think there are different bodies, I know it was possible to remove the old ultegra spindle and put the Vector pedal spindle in but the Xpeedo hack indicates to me that there are enough differences between pedals that it might not be that simple. My Shimano SPDs internal part of the spindle is a good cm shorter than the Ultegra ones on my other bike, although total spindle length seems to be very similar. To me, based on those pics, they would need to be selling a sheath for the SPD only on top of the actual spindle but it is certainly feasible they will do Shimano SPD only as the threaded part of their spindle is long enough, maybe you can fit a nut to hold it more outboard?

    Like this


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    #47
    Weepsie
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,909 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    Anyone who uses speedplay, wahoo are apparently launches a speedplay powermeter. Details on DC rainmakers site


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    #48
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Trainer road had pics up of Garmin pedal power meter (not Vectors) and Cyclingtips have run with it. TR has since deleted and the lack of info anywhere makes me doubt it is anymore than a stunt as the boxes don't look as polished as most Garmin stuff. Probably an early April Fools but here are the photos: https://cyclingtips.com/2021/03/new-garmin-rally-power-meter-pedal-family-to-include-spd-sl-and-spd-models/


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    #49
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Not so sure, I was listening to the Zwiftcast over the weekend, and during the close GPllama said he was in the thick of testing stuff that would be big news to all cyclists... Also, he and Rainmaker are active on the TR forum, and didn't dismiss it from what I saw (they were tagged pretty early).


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    #50
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    They're real anyway. Game changer in that you can swap pedal bodies. i.e. you can use the one power meter for Spd-SL and SPD.

    https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2021/03/garmin-rally-power-meter-review-spd-spd-sl-look-keo.html

    Will await to see what Favero do, after them hinting shimano compatibility.


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    #51
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Single sided €666, except for the SPD which is €717. Plus 205 for the conversion kits.

    If first time buying a power meter, and multiple bikes, this still seems ideal*. But I think I'll be waiting for Shimano to start stocking cranksets to swap my existing 4iiii to my gravel bike!

    *even for consistency


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    #52
    CramCycle
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,497 Mod ✭✭✭✭CramCycle


    Macy0161 wrote: »
    Single sided €666, except for the SPD which is €717. Plus 205 for the conversion kits.

    If first time buying a power meter, and multiple bikes, this still seems ideal*. But I think I'll be waiting for Shimano to start stocking cranksets to swap my existing 4iiii to my gravel bike!

    *even for consistency

    Same here, I am waiting on the 4iiii double sided to come into stock, it can be split into two so I can have it on multiple bikes with ease (all Shimano cranks), comes with new chainring and new crankset and all for substantially cheaper. Other hope is that Favero spindle undercuts them and starts a price war


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    #53
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,289 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Seems like the existing vector 3's can also be converted to SPD-SL/ SPD.


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