The Black Horse Inside Coolmore

Black_Ninja · 18-11-2016 7:46pm #1

Anyone else read the book by William Jones?

Got it in the post this morning and have it read already.

Found it a real interesting in-site into the Coolmore operation.

Found the story of the history of Northern Dancer really interesting also.

diomed · 21-11-2016 9:42am

Read it a few months ago. A good read.

marvin80 · 21-11-2016 4:26pm

Not in any bookshops I've been to, where can I order a copy?
Thanks.

Black_Ninja · 21-11-2016 5:36pm

marvin80 wrote: »

Not in any bookshops I've been to, where can I order a copy?
Thanks.

I got mine from eBay http://www.ebay.ie/itm/131997649526?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Around €18 inc delivery. Ordered 9th November, delivered 18th November.

diomed · 21-11-2016 6:12pm

marvin80 wrote: »

Not in any bookshops I've been to, where can I order a copy?
Thanks.

http://community.betfair.com/bloodstock__breeding/go/thread/view/94018/30675149/coolmore-book

marvin80 · 21-11-2016 8:37pm

There's another Coolmore book out at the moment:

https://www.mercierpress.ie/irish-books/coolmore-stud-/

finbarrk · 23-11-2016 10:50am

I read it a few months ago. It was all right. Worth the read anyway. I was expecting maybe a bit more scandal! I bought it directly off the author.

tipptom · 24-11-2016 11:16am

finbarrk wrote: »

I read it a few months ago. It was all right. Worth the read anyway. I was expecting maybe a bit more scandal! I bought it directly off the author.

Haven't read it yet but I think the main alleged scandal is supposed to be the treatment or mistreatment of a famous stallion when it became ill.
Wonder why Coolmore have not gone for defamation on that alone.

There is an interesting intro on Google on Jones v Coolmore case for a few pages until you have to start paying for the rest of the readings.

He seems to have played Coolmores lawyers well in response to their alleged intimidating letters to the point of telling them he was being shadowed by a RTE documentary crew and that any of their actions was being publicly recorded and basically he would see them in court.

Recent publicity must be a great boom to sales.

Imhof Tank · 24-11-2016 2:16pm

tipptom wrote: »

Haven't read it yet but I think the main alleged scandal is supposed to be the treatment or mistreatment of a famous stallion when it became ill.
Wonder why Coolmore have not gone for defamation on that alone.

There is an interesting intro on Google on Jones v Coolmore case for a few pages until you have to start paying for the rest of the readings.

He seems to have played Coolmores lawyers well in response to their alleged intimidating letters to the point of telling them he was being shadowed by a RTE documentary crew and that any of their actions was being publicly recorded and basically he would see them in court.

Recent publicity must be a great boom to sales.

Quite the opposite I think. AFAIK Coolmore got an injunction against (or voluntary agreement from) Easons, WH Smith etc stocking the book so now he is reduced to trying to distribute it himself from home

finbarrk · 24-11-2016 3:03pm

Yeah. And he says they stopped the RP and the Field from him being allowed to place advertisements about the book.

tipptom · 24-11-2016 7:02pm

finbarrk wrote: »

Yeah. And he says they stopped the RP and the Field from him being allowed to place advertisements about the book.

I would say Coolmore didn't have to put to much pressure on the RP and the Field if at all to stop him placing ads!

maximo31 · 04-07-2017 6:31pm

Just reading this at the moment. Enjoying it so far,especially the parts on Northern Dancer. Is there any book you would recommend for his career?

Gringo180 · 04-07-2017 10:54pm

Whos the stallion they allegedly mistreated? St Nicholas Abbey at a guess?

LivinLarge · 05-07-2017 1:01am

Gringo180 wrote: »

Whos the stallion they allegedly mistreated? St Nicholas Abbey at a guess?

Its a while since I read it so can barley remember but there was a good bit of focus on a top broodmare called Jude. Had some complications in previous foaling yet coolmore persisted in putting her in foal again which eventually resulted in her death.

Good book but maybe loses the fascination and starts to meander as the book goes on. I remember the first few chapters being brilliant.

Panrich · 05-07-2017 8:00am

This review indicates that Montjeu might be the horse in question but I have not read the book myself

http://theracingforum.co.uk/racing-articles/book-review-the-black-horse-inside-coolmore/

Black_Ninja · 05-07-2017 10:58am

Gringo180 wrote: »

Whos the stallion they allegedly mistreated? St Nicholas Abbey at a guess?

Montjeu.

Allegedly, if he was put down, insurance wouldn't pay out so they allegedly left the stallion in agony so he would die a natural death

WH BONNEY · 17-11-2020 11:55am

For those interested the sequel "The Black Horse is dying" is now available on Amazon.

I have only read the first few chapters, which are focused towards American racing and the Breeders Cup, but interesting none the less. Unsurprisingly Baffert isn't being painted in a good light.

The Tetrarch · 20-11-2020 2:15pm

Thanks for the info. I ordered it.

The Tetrarch · 12-12-2020 4:39pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I ordered it.

Delivered today.
On a flick through it appears that it will be a very, very interesting read.

nuckeythompson · 13-12-2020 1:11pm

Interesting article on todays indo

William Jones, The Black Horse trilogy and why 'you don't stand up to Coolmore'

https://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/william-jones-the-black-horse-trilogy-and-why-you-dont-stand-up-to-coolmore-39856670.html

chinguetti · 13-12-2020 7:24pm

Kimmage seems to be turning his focus on horse racing and in particular drugs in horse racing as that's his second article in the last couple of months, both at the end concerned drugs.

I'd say there's a few in the higher sections of Irish racing authorities will be worried if Kimmage starts digging for stories.

Andalucia · 13-12-2020 11:24pm

chinguetti wrote: »

Kimmage seems to be turning his focus on horse racing and in particular drugs in horse racing as that's his second article in the last couple of months, both at the end concerned drugs.

I'd say there's a few in the higher sections of Irish racing authorities will be worried if Kimmage starts digging for stories.

Kimmage will have a field day if he does any digging. HRI have handled the whole question of doping and drug use in the most concerning manner. Ever since the Fenton case, it has been heads in hands stuff.

The Tetrarch · 14-12-2020 11:44am

I read a chapter or two each night.
On page 49 I read that Lasix (Frusemide) if given to horses "to prevent bleeding".
It seems like about 5% of horses suffer from serious bleeding.

"The real attraction is the weight loss it induces. When between 10-15 litres of urine are passed as the drug goes to work a horse becomes 10-20 lbs lighter, with some horses even able to lose 30 lbs. That's a lot of weight not to be carrying through a race, which explains how performance can be improved."

How difficult is it to get Lasix in Ireland?
As I write this I have a small plastic bag before me with 14 Frusemide (Lasix) tablets in it.
They are from the local Vet Clinic, and are for my 14 year old female Jack Russell terrier.
She has a weak heart. Her lungs fill with fluid, and she needs help to clear the fluid.
To get more Lasix I phone for a repeat prescription.
My Jack Russell has shown increased speed over the lawn.

Slattsy · 14-12-2020 3:58pm

I could do with some Lasix so.

irish_major · 15-12-2020 11:59am

It does not take a rocket scientist to work out what's going on in Ireland and who some of the main culprits are. As alluded to in the book the improvement Denis Hogan got from Make a Challenge should really have raised eyebrows.

Another one that I nearly spat my coffee out at lately was Swift Wing winning on the 25th of November in Dundalk. Whilst a formerly half decent horse winning a claimer in Dundalk is no surprise the trainers comments post race deserved an investigation alone:

“When we got him he was moving well and there didn't seem to be any issue but we got the vet Donnacha Houlihan to have a look at him to check him.

“He did a small little job on him and it's made all the difference.”

Inconspicuous enough but you only need to dig a fraction deeper to begin getting concerned - Between 2012 and 2019 James McCauley had over 100 runners with no winners, he has trained 3 winners and 3 places from 54 runners this year, an upturn in fortune which has coincided with him seeming to have a close partnership with Denis Hogan. Hogan has pulled off some huge gambles in the past 2 months and has had a sensational 24 months, training over 115 winners - 24 of these have been owned by James McCauley. You may remember them from the time they stopped Yuften and Gambled on Tony the gent on the 20th of March in Dundalk (Both owned by McCauley at the time). What I'm getting at here is they seem to have a very very close relationship, one whereby you could draw an assumption that Denis Hogan does most of the training of the horses that run under McCauleys name as a trainer.

Now back to swift wing who had no issues but Donnacha Houlihan still decided to do a little job on him - the same Donnacha Houlihan who "in error" administered an anabloic steroid to Denis Hogans horse Turbine in 2018 https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/racing/ihrb-defends-decision-to-back-date-turbine-steroid-ban-to-january-1.4002663. Surely any logical human being who had taken their horse to a vet who incompetently gave him an anabolic steroid would ensure them and those close to him would never ever return to that vet. Unless, of course, he had done exactly what you asked him to do and you were happy to return.

They're not even attempting to hide it and the HRI are willfully ignoring what is going on.

Odelay · 15-12-2020 12:08pm

“There didn’t seem to be an issue”. Read it properly. DH is one of the best vets in the country for horses movement, it there is an issue difficult to see to the naked eye, he will find the cause of it. Some horses do not show discomfort easily.

irish_major · 15-12-2020 12:14pm

Odelay wrote: »

“There didn’t seem to be an issue”. Read it properly. DH is one of the best vets in the country for horses movement, it there is an issue difficult to see to the naked eye, he will find the cause of it. Some horses do not show discomfort easily.

He also "wrongly" administered an anabolic steroid to a horse who is trained by your right hand man. I'd be finding another vet to do my lameness walk up if I believed that to be true.

Odelay · 15-12-2020 12:29pm

irish_major wrote: »

He also "wrongly" administered an anabolic steroid to a horse who is trained by your right hand man. I'd be finding another vet to do my lameness walk up if I believed that to be true.

You’re seeing what you want to see. Who is my right hand man?

paddy no 11 · 15-12-2020 12:30pm

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/high-court/court-confirms-two-month-suspension-of-well-known-vet-1.4436540

anything to see here

irish_major · 16-12-2020 7:55pm

Incredible training performence from James McCauley tonight in dundalk who trained a 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Remarkably all had been trained by Hogan until lately

The Tetrarch · 18-12-2020 1:28pm

I see on the Racing Post website a UK trainer "loses two Listed winners as extent of feed contamination revealed". :rolleyes:

In The Black horse Is Dying is a nice little story about an Irish trainer.
"His answer to the question of how he came to be in possession of these drugs was in the realm of blaming fairies. He told the court they had been accidentally left in his car at a race meeting by an unnamed man who intended passing them to a vet who has since died. He denied giving any steroids to his horses and could not explain why Stanozolol was found in his training yard."

I have read 204 pages of the 471 page book. Next are the chapters about Ireland.
An interesting comment in the book about the IHRB (Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board, formerly the Turf Club) is nobody outside the club knows who the members of the club are.

chinguetti · 20-12-2020 10:08pm

I didn't read David Walsh's article in the Times today but the IHRB have put out a statement so more attention is getting brought on this. If Walsh and Kimmage keep asking questions, this could get quite interesting as they're the kind of guys who get the story no matter how long it takes.

The Tetrarch · 21-12-2020 11:52am

It is nice to read the IHRB press release, and see they are patting themselves on the back for their number of tests.

When you read the book you learn that they almost always issue a fine for a drug offence, often the minimum Euro 1,000, instead of a ban.
Then they waive the fine with a comment like "the trainer had taken all reasonable precautions to avoid a breach of the rule and that the substance had been administered unknowingly".

A good excuse is contaminated feed.
Another good excuse is the vet administered the drug too close to the race and the drug did not have time to exit the system.
The trainer is never at fault. It was the feed supplier, or the vet.

The IHRB seldom/never state the drug found was slightly over the allowed limit (if there is an allowed level) or a mile over the allowed limit.
One trainer had his fine waived for a Cobalt breach. Another case heard on the same day for Cobalt - that trainer was fined Euro 1,000. No info on how much Cobalt in each case. The first trainer is famous and extremely well connected, the second trainer is not.

The Tetrarch · 21-12-2020 12:05pm

Do you remember the case Chris Gordon, Head of Security and Investigations of the IHRB (Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board), took against The Irish Racehorse Trainers Association (IRTA) for defamation? The High Court jury awarded Gordon Euro 300,000 for damages.

An extract from the book: "The IRTA is a company limited by guarantee and and is understood to be protected by a maximum liability of Euro 6 per member. There are 355 licensed trainers in Ireland, although not all are members of the association, so the maximum pay out to Gordon would be around Euro 2,000."

Who pays the six figure sum in legal fees for the court case(s)?
My guess is if it is paid at all, it is probably you, the reader.

The Tetrarch · 24-12-2020 1:12pm

I finished reading it yesterday at 06:00.
If you think you know about racing and breeding this book will tell you how little you know.

You can not bet when you do not know what he horses are on. You can not own a horse, put it in a race, and have a fair chance.

In the USA trainers are suspended for drug offences, but their assistant trainer then runs the stable as if nothing happened.
In Ireland it appears that the authorities operate the same way anglers operate.
If you catch a big fish you immediately release it - "catch and release".

After the White Sox lost the 1919 World Series to the Cincinnati Reds, Jackson and seven other White Sox players were accused of accepting $5,000 each (equivalent to $74,000 in 2019) to throw the Series. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson confessed to participating in the fix.
When Jackson left the criminal court building in the custody of a sheriff after telling his story to the grand jury, he found several hundred youngsters, aged from 6 to 16, waiting for a glimpse of their idol.

One child stepped up to the outfielder, and, grabbing his coat sleeve, said:
"It ain't true, is it, Joe?"
"Yes, kid, I'm afraid it is," Jackson replied.
The boys opened a path for the ball player and stood in silence until he passed out of sight.
"Well, I'd never have thought it," sighed the lad.

Tell me it isn't true.
Tell me Irish racing (point to point; hurdles; steeplechases; flat) is drug free (it isn't).

You can take a hair sample from every horse that races, and horses that are sold at auction, and test them for drugs.
Keep the hair samples for ever, and re-test if tests for new drugs are developed.
A hair sample will also tell you approximately when drugs were administered.

Kauto · 26-12-2020 12:11am

The Tetrarch wrote: »

I finished reading it yesterday at 06:00.
If you think you know about racing and breeding this book will tell you how little you know.

You can not bet when you do not know what he horses are on. You can not own a horse, put it in a race, and have a fair chance.

In the USA trainers are suspended for drug offences, but their assistant trainer then runs the stable as if nothing happened.
In Ireland it appears that the authorities operate the same way anglers operate.
If you catch a big fish you immediately release it - "catch and release".

After the White Sox lost the 1919 World Series to the Cincinnati Reds, Jackson and seven other White Sox players were accused of accepting $5,000 each (equivalent to $74,000 in 2019) to throw the Series. "Shoeless" Joe Jackson confessed to participating in the fix.
When Jackson left the criminal court building in the custody of a sheriff after telling his story to the grand jury, he found several hundred youngsters, aged from 6 to 16, waiting for a glimpse of their idol.

One child stepped up to the outfielder, and, grabbing his coat sleeve, said:
"It ain't true, is it, Joe?"
"Yes, kid, I'm afraid it is," Jackson replied.
The boys opened a path for the ball player and stood in silence until he passed out of sight.
"Well, I'd never have thought it," sighed the lad.

Tell me it isn't true.
Tell me Irish racing (point to point; hurdles; steeplechases; flat) is drug free (it isn't).

You can take a hair sample from every horse that races, and horses that are sold at auction, and test them for drugs.
Keep the hair samples for ever, and re-test if tests for new drugs are developed.
A hair sample will also tell you approximately when drugs were administered.

If your horse is not on the 'go go Juice' you have no chance. It is expensive for the smaller trainer however.

STB. · 26-12-2020 1:21am

The Tetrarch wrote: »

In The Black horse Is Dying is a nice little story about an Irish trainer.
"His answer to the question of how he came to be in possession of these drugs was in the realm of blaming fairies. He told the court they had been accidentally left in his car at a race meeting by an unnamed man who intended passing them to a vet who has since died. He denied giving any steroids to his horses and could not explain why Stanozolol was found in his training yard."

I have read 204 pages of the 471 page book. Next are the chapters about Ireland.
An interesting comment in the book about the IHRB (Irish Horseracing Regulatory Board, formerly the Turf Club) is nobody outside the club knows who the members of the club are.

The Irish Trainer was named in court reports at the time - Pat Hughes .

His brother was the vet caught with 6 kilos of nitrotain and refused to implicate anyone else because of client confidentiality. It since turned out that the Agriculutural investigators found out that the 6kgs discovered was just one of 24 packages sent, which in total pointed to industrial scale amounts imported from Australia from the same supplier. Somewhere in the region of 225kg according to an article recently published in The Times by David Walsh, famous cycling drug cheats author and journalist.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/questions-must-be-asked-about-whether-irish-racing-takes-doping-seriously-cqc0zk2qq

paddy no 11 · 26-12-2020 6:20pm

Was enough for 5,000 individual doses if I call correctly

You'd have fellas on here creaming their shorts over certain trainers

STB. · 27-12-2020 1:39am

paddy no 11 wrote: »

Was enough for 5,000 individual doses if I call correctly

You'd have fellas on here creaming their shorts over certain trainers

1 kilo is 250 doses. Its 4g of paste in a dose per day.

I don't know what you would do with 225 Kilos of the stuff that David Walsh claimed was imported from Nature Vet Australia in the total orders by Hughes. That's 56,000 doses.

This stuff has a very quick withdrawal period. You probably won't detect it after 2 days.

Lets face it I don't think anyone in the industry wanted widespread usage to be a headline. The number of consignments seized by Customs no doubt pales in comparison to what gets through.

finbarrk · 27-12-2020 3:01am

Denis Coakleys response to David Walsh’s article is excellent. I can’t link it now.

IAMAMORON · 10-01-2021 3:48am

Brian O'Connor wrote an interesting article in the Irish Times this weekend. I tried to read it fully, but in all fairness I have been on the hoop since Thursday night and I am slightly wary of the snowball that is appearing.

Most worryingly for me is the indication that the HRI are terrified of what would happen if they had a good look under the covers.... In fairness that is what worries me most also.

I phucking love Brian O'Connor but having read his piece I can't help feeling that he danced around the truth like a debutant at an underground rave? I get that he might be trying to investigate the truth... but if he recognises that if he steps too far ahead of himself he is culpable to ridicule. It simmers with insipidness.

I am a punter,,, for me I don't really have to concern myself with small stables trying their heart out to get half decent nags across the line to pay the bills.... There lies the problem. Too much wink and elbow language for my liking and if I was sniffing for a bone I know where I might end up scratching the ground like a hound?

I was horrified over the feed scandal during Ark week. My jaw dropped and to be quite frank I still cling to the hope that prudence was being adopted by the connections that matter.

Regrettably this will be smothered by the game. Outsiders and journalists will be placated with conceited untruths and told to " get back in their box", or fear the inevitable ostracisation that the industry demands.

It bestrides the world like a colossus , who are we petty men to walk under its' huge legs and find ourselves in servile fearfulness?

IAMAMORON · 19-01-2021 12:13pm

How come it took 2 years?

https://www.irishracing.com/news?headline=Charles-Byrnes-banned-for-six-months&prid=215123

IAMAMORON · 19-01-2021 12:21pm

Cheltenham Festival Irish winners the last 20 years.

year total
2000 3
2001 0
2002 5
2003 6
2004 4
2005 9
2006 10
2007 5
2008 7
2009 9
2010 7
2011 13
2012 5
2013 14
2014 12
2015 13
2016 13
2017 19
2018 17
2019 14
2020 17

https://juicestorm.com/horse-racing/2020-cheltenham-festival-many-irish-trained-winners/
https://www.independent.ie/sport/horse-racing/cheltenham/irish-trained-winners-in-the-last-10-years-26711583.html
https://www.thejockeyclub.co.uk/cheltenham/events-tickets/the-festival/about-the-event/race-results/2020/

The Tetrarch · 19-01-2021 1:39pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

How come it took 2 years?
https://www.irishracing.com/news?headline=Charles-Byrnes-banned-for-six-months&prid=215123

The horse was given 100 times the normal dose.
It probably took the horse the two years to come around, and then when asked he could remember nothing.

IAMAMORON · 19-01-2021 1:56pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

The horse was given 100 times the normal dose.
It probably took the horse the two years to come around, and then when asked he could remember nothing.

While it looks like a thorough enough investigation I cannot help but feel it is tip of the iceberg stuff. I also find it a stretch that they were going to such lengths to lay a horse. It seems like a lot of hassle given some of the reasons I have seen over the years for an underperforming horse.

All in all it seems like they literally threw the book at them to get a conviction, but how come it has taken 2 years and some peripheral heat from a few scribes to bring up the issue?

The only logic I can find in this circumstance is that the horse was a total machine they were hoping to lob into a big handicap down the line. That being the case they may have felt that sedating him would have taken less focus off any jockey faffing around the back of the field with him. I still think they have gone to an extreme to pull a horse. Alternatively it may have been the only way the HRI could embellish their prosecution, insofar as by proving that they were laying the horse they were offering a counterargument to the defense that the horse was tampered with by a 3rd party?

Am I missing a trick here? Is it possible that sedating a horse with a certain dose actually improve performance? Could it be that they got the dose wrong? Then when they realised this prerace they layed the phuck out of it in a panic?

Francie Barrett · 19-01-2021 2:42pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

The horse was given 100 times the normal dose.
It probably took the horse the two years to come around, and then when asked he could remember nothing.

A notorious cheating rogue, basically let off with a slap on the wrist. That full entire report is a must-read and completely damning.

Kauto · 19-01-2021 2:46pm

Poor Charles has nothing on the green and gold. The biggest scurge on racing by a long way.

famagusta · 19-01-2021 2:53pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

The horse was given 100 times the normal dose.

You're wrong there chief, read it again, the horse would prob be dead with that dose

Odelay · 19-01-2021 2:59pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

The horse was given 100 times the normal dose.
It probably took the horse the two years to come around, and then when asked he could remember nothing.

Not 100 times the normal dose. He had 100 times the agreed minimum detection level.

finbarrk · 19-01-2021 3:08pm

I read 'The Black Horse is dying'. It's good in fairness.

Francie Barrett · 19-01-2021 3:22pm

Did anyone else laugh at this bit?

Mr Buckley added that all three of these lay bets had been traced through the Betfair exchange to the same account number.These lay bets were initially placed with a limited liability company, which placed them in turn with Betfair, on what appeared to be a combined basis with other such bets. The Committee was surprised to hear that such a mechanism is possible, as it could hinder identification of the possible beneficiaries of lay betting. Mr Buckley identified an individual known to be associated with the combined account. He is based in a distant part of the world and was said to be associated with match fixing and associated betting in connection with other sports. There is no evidence to connect Mr Byrnes with these betting patterns, but they are part of the full and relevant context to the events of 18 October 2018 at Tramore and informed the subsequent investigation into those events.

The Black Horse Inside Coolmore

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