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26-12-2018 7:54pm#1.0
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No. But in fast moving forums like AH or Soccer it is impossible for mods to read every post. We rely on reports.0
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Mods can action any post that they believe contravenes the forum charter or site rules, or even those that do not in certain cases.
Feel free to drop the Mod a PM to discuss or seek clarification. Questioning a mod decision on-thread does usually lead to mod action as it drags threads off-topic.0 -
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Some mods are pro-active, and some are re-active (and some are somewhere between the two). In some cases (as I suspect is the case here) we are talking judgement areas. If no-one complains about something then why should a mod intervene?
I've not approved your prior post, but would note your reference to someone being actioned for asking a mod presumably arose because someone asked in-thread rather than via PM. I also note you and others seem to respond to comments you seem to have an issue with in-thread rather than reporting posts
I am not close to the discussion at all, and am not going to comment on specific actions or inaction. However it is a reasonable position for a mod to take if they simply react to what is reported. Equally it is unreasonable for posters to think they can complain about other posters in-thread when posts should be being reported0 -
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Some mods are pro-active, and some are re-active (and some are somewhere between the two). In some cases (as I suspect is the case here) we are talking judgement areas. If no-one complains about something then why should a mod intervene?
Hey Beasty, thanks for the input and apologies for the wall of text here.
The thing is, people have complained about this particular case. In a thread where feedback was pro-actively sought (fair credit where it is due as it was good to have a feedback thread as such to encourage users to voice concerns/issues/potential improvements or modification to subforum charter etc) the case of one particular user constantly soap-boxing and continually dragging the level of discussion down due to their posting style came up rampantly. Normally I'd say that not many people would have bothered with providing the feedback as it seemed to be relatively quiet in the feedback thread beforehand, until this particular poster started to post in the A & A forum regarding a subject that they have been threadbanned from all previous relevant threads across different forums on Boards due to their posting style (soap-boxing, not contributing to a discussion, making wild and unsubstantiated claims), to which a wide variety of posters then contributed towards the appeared tolerance of the alleged offenders posting style.I am not close to the discussion at all, and am not going to comment on specific actions or inaction.
However it is a reasonable position for a mod to take if they simply react to what is reported. Equally it is unreasonable for posters to think they can complain about other posters in-thread when posts should be being reported.
That's completely fine and understandable. If it is unreasonable for posters to complain about other posters in-thread then yes it is absolutely reasonable for a mod to take action only on reports, however the point of the feedback thread was exactly that, to gather feedback and that is what people gathered. They tried to outline and highlight the issues with the individuals posting style and were met with a nonchalant response which gave the rest of us the impression that the problem was not going to be addressed unless proper, exact and thoroughly documented reports were made.
The mod in question is being quite stiff and stubborn and appears to be completely unwilling to do an actual bit of investigation and comparison of the alleged offenders scrutinized posts, and posts for which they have been previously sanctioned/punished in (I myself have provided links to the posts for comparison in both PM' ((I'm 90% certain in PM anyways)) and on the thread) and I was met with nothing other than a ridiculous response not even giving an ounce of thought or willingness to engage on the issue so I do not wish to engage with that particular mod any further, however I'm not allowed post on the feedback thread any further despite you know, me wanting to provide feedback to improve the forum and the experience for those wanting and willing to engage in valuable discussion.
We have outlined everything, highlighted as much as we can, provided links and posts to support our concerns and yet still nothing has been done nor does it look like anything will be done.
Is it honestly reasonable for a moderator (bar those moderating heavy-traffic forums like AH & Soccer which is completely reasonable as they can get snowed under in rapid time) to turn around and say "nope, follow procedure" when multiple users all have supporting posts, highlighted discrepancies and provided comparisons of the similarity between sanctioned and unsanctioned offending posts? Especially in a low-traffic forum? That to me is just not good enough, it really isn't good enough to turn around and say "nah follow procedure" and then when it is followed, it's found null and void anyways? So the particular mod's attitude actually discourages people from reporting as they are inadvertently giving off such a hostile and unhelpful vibe.0 -
I think we are wasting our time robarmstrong. Robdinch has no intention of actually doing anything. Can a mod close my thread as requested. No point wasting further time on this. The attitudes of the mods is quite clear.0
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Actually I'm not going to close this thread at this stage. You came here to have a whinge and it appears that because the small number of posters that have contributed (including only 1 mod and 2 Admins) are not falling over themselves to agree you've gone off in a strop deleting all 5 or 6 lines you have "contributed" hereohnonotgmail wrote: »I think we are wasting our time robarmstrong. Robdinch has no intention of actually doing anything. Can a mod close my thread as requested. No point wasting further time on this. The attitudes of the mods is quite clear.
To contrast, robarmstrong has set out his position in a thought through post, without resorting to throwing his rattle out of the pram
How can you possibly say the mods are not interested? You started this thread on Stephens Day. Many mods and "regular" users have a lot of other things going on at this time of the year, but no - now you can claim you complained but nothing was done
May I suggest you grow up if you wish your "feedback" to be taken seriously0 -
You were quite clear in your first post Beasty. Nothing but the same equivocation that robinch comes out with. Is there a special training course where mods learn this? You say a lot of words but there is very little actual content.0
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As i cant edit my previous post i will add this. Two other mods that posted actually answered the question i asked. You decided that the problem was with the people making complaints.0
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I answered your questions to the best of my ability. Why would I repeat what an Admin and other user (in this case a mod) had already said?
I told you I was not close to the thread in question. I also indicated, based on a cursory glance at the thread, that questioning or complaining about mod actions in-thread rather than reporting stuff is not a way to gain a mods attention, and indeed is against site rules
But carry on - keep digging as you wish0 -
What exactly do you think i am digging? You are being your normal dismissive self.0
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Even though you’ve gotten your feedback there’s no reason the thread should be closed at least not yet.
We have an opportunity here to engage with one of the more active members of the admin team and we should utilize that, let’s discuss this topic with well thought out and constructed posts.
@Beasty
I understand due to the timing this probably may not be looked at as often as myself or ohnonotgmail would like but is there any chance you’d be able to (when you’ve got the chance) engage with us and see if you’ve a response to my initial post? If not that’s fine, just wanted to grab an impartial view.0 -
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Yes I will look at the points you raised when I get chancerobarmstrong wrote: »
@Beasty
I understand due to the timing this probably may not be looked at as often as myself or ohnonotgmail would like but is there any chance you’d be able to (when you’ve got the chance) engage with us and see if you’ve a response to my initial post? If not that’s fine, just wanted to grab an impartial view.0 -
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A question for Beasty.
The original question was whether it was true that mods could only decide to action a post if that post had been reported. That was the claim made by the mod in question in the post that caused this thread to be started.So long as no posts are reported for offences within the remit of the forum charter, then yes, you're correct as nothing can be done.
Disregarding for the moment all the issues of questioning mod actions on-thread, does it concern you at all that a mod would make such a claim when you know, and I suspect you know that they know, it is untrue?0 -
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It has already been made clear that it is not a site-wide rule
However it does not concern me if a mod acts that way in practice, so long as they make it clear they are acting that way. That may be in the Charter (which I suspect is not the case here) or in-thread (as seems to have happened here)
I suspect there are a number of "practices" adopted across the site that, if reported, would require action to protect both the site and/or user (the posting of certain copyrighted material springs to mind, which strictly is illegal, as well as against site rules). If no-one reports it, there is no need to act. If someone does report it, there is. Equally in some forums these rules are strictly enforced - for example as a former mod of Cycling we were very strict on acting on any doping speculation - if we were not the whole forum would be littered with accusations - we know when Lance Armstrong came to Dublin he had his lawyers scouring the internet for any such accusations but fortunately the forum charter and policy meant there was likely to be very little of concern. Equally some posts may be considered defamatory by some, and fair comment by others. In those cases why would a mod act in the absence of a report? If it is reported, there becomes an onus on the site, via its mods, to review and act accordingly, usually erring on the side of caution to protect the site from potential legal claims.
Hence on the question of whether a mod should act in the absence of a report, that is discretionary but certainly not mandatory
All I have said above though is without having reviewed the specific thread in question in any detail, and I will do that when I get a chance0 -
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The first thing I would say here is that forum "Feedback" thread should never be used to make complaints about other users (I see that you and others have done so, without apparent sanction). The forum charter does make it clear that if you do have problems with a post (and as a consequence a poster) the "Report Post" function should be used. Feedback threads are there to make suggestions on how the forum and/or user experience can be improved, but not for pointing fingers at anyone in particular, be they regular users or indeed mods.robarmstrong wrote: »
The thing is, people have complained about this particular case. In a thread where feedback was pro-actively sought (fair credit where it is due as it was good to have a feedback thread as such to encourage users to voice concerns/issues/potential improvements or modification to subforum charter etc) the case of one particular user constantly soap-boxing and continually dragging the level of discussion down due to their posting style came up rampantly. Normally I'd say that not many people would have bothered with providing the feedback as it seemed to be relatively quiet in the feedback thread beforehand, until this particular poster started to post in the A & A forum regarding a subject that they have been threadbanned from all previous relevant threads across different forums on Boards due to their posting style (soap-boxing, not contributing to a discussion, making wild and unsubstantiated claims), to which a wide variety of posters then contributed towards the appeared tolerance of the alleged offenders posting style.
There are 3 mods as well as a number of CMods and the Report Post function allowing plenty of avenues to discuss/highlight specific posters/issues without "complaining" in a feedback thread.That's completely fine and understandable. If it is unreasonable for posters to complain about other posters in-thread then yes it is absolutely reasonable for a mod to take action only on reports, however the point of the feedback thread was exactly that, to gather feedback and that is what people gathered. They tried to outline and highlight the issues with the individuals posting style and were met with a nonchalant response which gave the rest of us the impression that the problem was not going to be addressed unless proper, exact and thoroughly documented reports were made.
The mod in question is being quite stiff and stubborn and appears to be completely unwilling to do an actual bit of investigation and comparison of the alleged offenders scrutinized posts, and posts for which they have been previously sanctioned/punished in (I myself have provided links to the posts for comparison in both PM' ((I'm 90% certain in PM anyways)) and on the thread) and I was met with nothing other than a ridiculous response not even giving an ounce of thought or willingness to engage on the issue so I do not wish to engage with that particular mod any further, however I'm not allowed post on the feedback thread any further despite you know, me wanting to provide feedback to improve the forum and the experience for those wanting and willing to engage in valuable discussion.
We have outlined everything, highlighted as much as we can, provided links and posts to support our concerns and yet still nothing has been done nor does it look like anything will be done.
I certainly do not see any need to document in detail issues in each post reported, but an outline of the issue is necessary. Follow up reports can then, for example, make reference to earlier reports indicating the later reports are for the same sort of thing. That allows a mod to build up a picture about a poster across a number of posts. If one post gets reported by a number of posters that is even more indicative to a mod that action may be required.
I have pointed out earlier in the thread practices that may be adopted by mods, and indeed why mods may only look to act on reported posts. There is no black and white rule on this, and I will mention that to the local mod team to ensure there is no misunderstandingIs it honestly reasonable for a moderator (bar those moderating heavy-traffic forums like AH & Soccer which is completely reasonable as they can get snowed under in rapid time) to turn around and say "nope, follow procedure" when multiple users all have supporting posts, highlighted discrepancies and provided comparisons of the similarity between sanctioned and unsanctioned offending posts? Especially in a low-traffic forum? That to me is just not good enough, it really isn't good enough to turn around and say "nah follow procedure" and then when it is followed, it's found null and void anyways? So the particular mod's attitude actually discourages people from reporting as they are inadvertently giving off such a hostile and unhelpful vibe.
What I will add though is the actions of posters both within the specific thread in question and the forum feedback thread really does go way too far. I have not yet had a look at what has been reported from that forum, and will now turn my attention to that. However it is completely inappropriate to "complain" about users, mods, or specific mod actions in that or any other thread within the forum. That is exactly what the Report Post function is for
If you see a number of reported posts for something similar remaining unactioned then that would be something I would imagine could be clarified in the feedback thread. So for example if you complain about a poster not providing backup to their claims, and they do this regularly, the question can be asked as to whether this is acceptable in the feedback thread without pointing any fingers at anyone0 -
The first thing I would say here is that forum "Feedback" thread should never be used to make complaints about other users (I see that you and others have done so, without apparent sanction). The forum charter does make it clear that if you do have problems with a post (and as a consequence a poster) the "Report Post" function should be used. Feedback threads are there to make suggestions on how the forum and/or user experience can be improved, but not for pointing fingers at anyone in particular, be they regular users or indeed mods.
Sorry I completely forgot about this thread, never got the update or anything!
I understand the Feedback thread should never be used to make complaints about other users. I did however try to highlight that it was a certain posting style that someone was utilizing rather than an actual individual if you get my meaning? So the finger-pointing whilst yes, I can see numerous times the individual was called upon, it's their posting style that causes issues that we're trying to highlight.There are 3 mods as well as a number of CMods and the Report Post function allowing plenty of avenues to discuss/highlight specific posters/issues without "complaining" in a feedback thread.
Again, I understand this, but with the lack of activity shown and the vibe given by a particular mod who was the only one engaging on the Feedback thread actively - We got frustrated, it's only natural and I'll be the first to say how frustrating the engagement has been.I certainly do not see any need to document in detail issues in each post reported, but an outline of the issue is necessary. Follow up reports can then, for example, make reference to earlier reports indicating the later reports are for the same sort of thing. That allows a mod to build up a picture about a poster across a number of posts. If one post gets reported by a number of posters that is even more indicative to a mod that action may be required.
That's fair enough, if an outline is necessary then an outline shall be provided but the depth of which we are being asked to is essentially equivalent of providing a mini-word document to a moderator of a relatively slow-moving forum, I just don't see that as being good enough and I know the majority of people complaining in that particular thread would agree.I have pointed out earlier in the thread practices that may be adopted by mods, and indeed why mods may only look to act on reported posts. There is no black and white rule on this, and I will mention that to the local mod team to ensure there is no misunderstanding
Whilst I can accept why mods may only look to act on reported posts I can't claim to fully understand it as that'd be a lie, the AH & Soccer lads excluded, mods on slow-moving forums really shouldn't be moderating if they can't do a little bit of investigative work. I mod on another site (not gonna name just in case I break some form of rule) and there's a poster with a certain .. "reputation" for making unsubstantiated claims fiercely similar to the offender in question on Boards. I had numerous people complain to me that he constantly soap-boxed, didn't really add to discussion and consistently avoided responding to call-outs. It breached a site-wide rule and he was told that any more behavior as such (lying, wild-claims, shilling, derailing discussions with soap-boxing and running out of threads when they get questioned) would result in a site-wide ban.
Other mods on Boards have noticed the individual we are complaining regarding their posting style and have not tolerated it whatsoever in threads (specifically regarding abortion and the 8th) and to my knowledge have threadbanned that particular person from pretty much all discussion around the topic because they have proven they cannot engage in a discussion.So for example if you complain about a poster not providing backup to their claims, and they do this regularly, the question can be asked as to whether this is acceptable in the feedback thread without pointing any fingers at anyone
This is where the problem lies, we have complained about them not providing backup to their claims, they do this constantly and we have asked if it is acceptable in the feedback thread. We did point fingers, and that was our mistake.
Again, apologies for the lack of response and appreciate your time responding to us.0
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