Disputing Card on Soccer Forum

Liam McPoyle · 07-02-2019 3:01pm #1

I received a yellow from the mod Kiith for the below.

Incredibly poor foresight from the club.

Unless the player has handed in a transfer request and out right refused to ever play again there is no good reason to sell him at this point, never mind for a paltry figure of £7m. Given his level of professionalism since joining I doubt that's happened so it's fcuking stupid to sell him.

Absolute fcuking apes running the club.

It relates to Man United selling a player and not replacing him coming into a crucial time of the season. The general feeling with supporters was that this was an incredibly stupid move.

PM Exchange with the mod is as follows.

Dear Business Cat,

You have been warned for personal abuse.

This site is for civil discussion and so we don't allow discussion to descend into name calling and petty abuse.

Please see the Boards.ie FAQ for more details.

Kiith

Hi Kiith.

Sorry but I'm a bit confused here, who did I personally abuse?

Hi Business Cat,

"Absolute fcuking apes running the club" is what it was for. Breach of the charter, covered under abuse.

"The rules on abuse apply to more than just boards users, and cover players/managers/fans/clubs/sports personalities as well."

Kiith.

I see.

Is it the "apes" or the "fcuking" thats the issue?

Where I'm from an ape would be used to describe a eejit/fool/idiot/buffoon/clown etc and I would have thought that was a fairly commonly used term and not abusive per se.

Would describing the board of a club or a footballer/ref/commentator that does something stupid as being eejits/fools/idiots/buffoons/clowns etc also be cardable?

The reason I'm asking is because I've been very conscious about my use of language on the soccer forum as I'm acutely aware that due to my help desk thread and daring to question a mod that I'd likely end up with a massive bullseye on my back.

If calling an eejit an eejit is a cardable offence then thats a pretty big rabbit hole the mod team are jumping down.

I'm not aware of the specifics of your helpdesk thread, and this has nothing to do with any previous infraction. Calling a group of people ****ing apes is clearly abusive language though. Regardless of if they are acting stupidly or deserve criticism, it's against the charter to direct language like that at anyone (be it a person, group, club etc...).

I could search the soccer forum and very easily come up with recent examples where people have made comments similar to mine about the board of a given club, about referees, pundits etc and no cards were given out.

Can i take it that calling someone (I mean a non boards user) an idiot or a clown will now automatically result in cards being issued too?

Because that's basically what I'm being carded for here.

Just for the record in case I decide to appeal the card, are you willing to rescind it?

That's fine. If there are other examples like that, report the posts and they'll be reviewed by the mod team.

And calling someone a clown or idiot isn't the same as saying they are ****ing apes. Clown or idiot could be carded, depending on the context, and mods reserve the right to apply their judgement as to a users intent when posting, and issue bans and/or infractions for abuse as necessary (that was taken directly from the charter).

If you want to appeal, that's fine, but as it stands i think it was a warranted infraction.

I initially was not going to appeal the card as I don't believe I will ever get a fair hearing again when it comes to the soccer forum given the help desk thread I started and considering how frowned upon it is for users to dare to question mods publicly but due to recent posts I reported that are deemed not card worthy in comparison to my own I feel obliged to once again to draw attention to what I feel is unfair treatment.

My post was not directed at anyone in particular, it did not name a person or persons and calling someone an ape would be a common enough expression. If the card is warranted for saying F'ing then the rules of the charter should state that use of swear words is cardable. On that basis I wish to appeal the card.

Liam McPoyle · 12-02-2019 11:07am

Anyone looking at this?

Steve · 12-02-2019 11:00pm

Apologies, your name change caused some confusion.

I can take a look.

There is enough info posted above, I don't need pm's.

Steve · 12-02-2019 11:20pm

The soccer for forum rules state:

The rules on abuse apply to more than just boards users, and cover players/managers/fans/clubs/sports personalities as well. You may consider certain terms to be a bit of banter, but any nickname or phrase that is even vaguely derogatory may be considered as abuse for the purpose of the charter.

Calling a team Manure, Liverpoo, Chelski, redsh1te, bluesh1te, the Scum, the Hun, SEVCO (for the purpose of winding up Rangers fans) or any other variant is abuse.

Nicknames like whisky nose, fat Spanish waiter, Fat Sam, Fat Frank, Maureen, and similar is abuse.

Calling Andy Gray or Pat Dolan names is abuse.

This list is not intended to be exhaustive, but it is common for users to misinterpret this rule and assume that language like the above is OK. Please think carefully before posting anything like the above..

However, emotional language is not in itself a problem. It is ok to deliver a point passionately, to swear if you so choose, though you can make a point solidly without having to call people / teams / etc names.

The mod team reserve the right to apply their judgement as to a users intent when posting, and issue bans and/or infractions for abuse as neccesary.

You posted:

Absolute fcuking apes running the club.

If I remove the emotional language (which is considered under the forum rule) then we are left with "Absolute apes running the club".

This still looks like a rule breach to me.

I invite you to offer a reason why it is not before ruling on it. Thanks.

Liam McPoyle · 13-02-2019 12:11am

Steve wrote: »

The soccer for forum rules state:

You posted:

If I remove the emotional language (which is considered under the forum rule) then we are left with "Absolute apes running the club".

This still looks like a rule breach to me.

I invite you to offer a reason why it is not before ruling on it. Thanks.

Hi Steve.

Are you really trying to say that using the term apes is a cardable offence? Across every single busy thread on the forum, on a weekly basis, similar terms (e.g. clown, idiot, fool, buffoon etc) are used to describe players, pundits, referees, linesmen, managers or the board of a given club.

In my help desk thread the thing that kept being brought back up was mod discretion and for instances like these mod discretion should be applied otherwise every single post that is even borderline abusive should be carded and we both know that is neither feasible nor wanted by mods or posters.

If I had gone into a rival teams thread and for no apparent reason posted that someone connected with the club was an f'ing ape then absolutely card me because that would likely wind up the natives and would be construed as trolling.

I didn't do that though. I am a United fan, I posted in the United thread about a very specific United related matter and I used the term f'ing apes.

There is an unwritten rule across the forum about certain leeway being applied (ie mod discretion) depending on where the post is made. This particularly applies to the general PL thread and match threads. Have A quick read through tonight's United match thread for example. I'd conservatively say that if 40 to 50% of the posts in there were made in the main United thread then there would (or at least should) be cards given out hand over fist.

Like I said in the HD thread, I don't expect to be allowed to say or do what ever I want because without rules there is anarchy however basic cop on should be used for modding.

If I'd posted something like "Ed Woodward is an f'ing c**t" then fair enough but if calling the board of the club I support apes, even f'ing apes, after they do something that serves no other purpose than to weaken the team is card worthy then the forum is truly lost.

Steve · 14-02-2019 12:56am

Hi Liam McPoyle,

Comparing your post to the forum charter, yes it is a rule breach and the card is justified.

Your defense that there is / was an ongoing HD discussion cannot be considered as, of yet, there has not been a rule change.

Mod action upheld, you may appeal to admin as you are well aware.

Liam McPoyle · 14-02-2019 10:48am

Steve wrote: »

Hi Liam McPoyle,

Comparing your post to the forum charter, yes it is a rule breach and the card is justified.

Your defense that there is / was an ongoing HD discussion cannot be considered as, of yet, there has not been a rule change.

Mod action upheld, you may appeal to admin as you are well aware.

Hi Steve, with all due respect, thats nonsense.

There has always been mod discretion applied across the forum so to say thats not the case and that its currently under discussion is an outright lie.

My HD thread was to question the bullying by thanks for the fish of me and other posters and to question the inconsistencies that exist across the forum. Beasty did not accept any wrong doing on thanks for the fishes part but acknowledged that there were inconsistencies in moderation and there would be an effort to improve how moderation and the charter is applied.

Even though I did not agree with his ruling I accepted it in the hope that going forward everyone would be treated the same and that the interpretation of the charter would be applied evenly and consistently to all users. But that is simply not happening. I got carded for posting "f'ing apes", the below posts were not deemed action worthy even though I reported them so the usual excuse of "the mods cant read every post" simply does not wash, if they were reported they were seen but not deemed card worthy, for what ever reason.

Great Keita starts the useless sh*t

A poster names a player and calls him a useless sh*t. He didn't say he was useless, he didnt say he was a sh*t footballer, he described him as a useless sh*t. That is every bit as abusive as my post but for some reason was not deemed card worthy.

Fcuk off.

Comment made in reply to another users post. It is clearly uncivil but was not carded. Discretion was obviously applied here as it was a response to a post that rankled alot of United fans.

Pathetic that Man Yoo fans are then booing Di Maria. Young got a huge home game decision there, they’ve some cheek to be booing Di Maria

Mangling a name for comedic effect is against the charter and card worthy, when it suits. No card given.

I expect nothing less from that poster. A nasty piece of work.

User commenting about another forum member, it is uncivil. Post was deleted and no action taken.

There are four examples for you of posts that I personally reported over the last week or so and not one of them were actioned yet for some strange reason "f'ing apes" is card worthy.

Applying literal interpretation of the charter to me but letting multiple other posters away with comparable posts is victimisation, pure and simple. It is been carried out by the mods and now is being advocated by cmods. I have no doubt in my mind that an admin review will result in the same ruling.

Like I said from the get go on my HD thread, I have no problem with getting carded when I break the rules but I absolutely have a problem with my posts being cherry picked for action when other members get away with doing the exact same thing.

Beasty · 14-02-2019 1:53pm

Liam McPoyle wrote: »

Even though I did not agree with his ruling I accepted it

Marking as resolved

EDIT - given your insistence in trying to use examples that were not actioned to try and support your own position. I have looked at all the posts you have reported this week. Now I was at the match, and unable to do any modding at the time, but every one of those posts had been actioned prior to your post above, with the exception of one. I have now dealt with that post

In future, rather than trying to to this, please deal with your own actions, as I will not entertain you coming here and trying to quote what happens elsewhere. Anyone who abides by site and forum rules will be fine. If you decide not to, please do not complain about others you perceive to be "getting away with it"

Disputing Card on Soccer Forum

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