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Worrisome deal

  • 10-08-2018 1:16pm
    #1
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭


    Hi Boardsies,

    I would appreciate any advice on my little predicament here ...

    So 2 weeks ago I went to view a used car in an independent garage about 100mins drive away in a neighbouring county. Upon test-drive, I took to it immediately and expressed my interest to the dealer. I put down a cash deposit of 200 and he took down enough details to get the finance process going. This was on a Monday. By Wednesday I sent on the requested documents via e-mail. There was a little back n forth for clarification and additional document requests but by Thursday he said to call down to make the downpayment (almost 2000) and sign the finance agreement which I did on Saturday. I was told I'd get my copy of the agreement in the post sometime this week and confirmation to come collect the car.

    There was no sign of agreement doc or word from the dealer as of yesterday (Thursday) so I rang him in the afternoon to inquire an update. He said he had sent on my signed docs but hadn't heard back from the lending company. He said he'd ring them. I asked him to send on their number so I could contact them myself as well. He never did but he'd forwarded a correspondence from them to him the previous week so I retrieved their number from there and rang them myself this morning. I was told there was an issue with proof of address, that the address wasn't matching. I countered this by saying I have an email where they explicably confirmed that the proof of address was fine hence me going back down to the dealer to sign the agreement. They just insisted on it and said they'd already informed the dealer and that I should speak with him.

    I rang the dealer, no reply. I sent him a text just saying to call him when he has a chance. I rang him again 2 hours later then he replied saying he is on holidays till Monday.

    I'm pretty worried now that there's some shenanigans going on here either with the lending company, dealer or both. I haven't replied to his text yet but part of me just wants to tell him I'm not interested in the car anymore. It's gone on for 2 weeks now. A friend got a car recently and all he had to provide was 3 months bank statement and bank details n he was driving his new ride 3 days later.

    Any advice on how best to proceed?


Comments

  • #2
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Is this a main garage or a lad in van at side of road?

    Who is the finance company?


  • #3
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Is this a main garage or a lad in van at side of road?

    Who is the finance company?

    It's a proper garage. I'm not sure wha constitutes "main". There's no fancy reception or anything like that.

    They're called Bluestone.


  • #4
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    It's a proper garage. I'm not sure wha constitutes "main". There's no fancy reception or anything like that.

    They're called Bluestone.


    I mean does it have a Toyota or car manufacturer assigned to it.....that is a main dealer



    Or it is a large garage with offices proper office etc



    Or just a car lot with a small office......


  • #5
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I mean does it have a Toyota or car manufacturer assigned to it.....that is a main dealer



    Or it is a large garage with offices proper office etc



    Or just a car lot with a small office......

    The bolded fits best.


  • #6
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    The bolded fits best.


    I understand now why alarm bells.



    Sorry I seen you paid more....

    Not sure what to do....hold on and ring on Monday......

    I would not get too stressed yet


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  • #7
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    I understand now why alarm bells.



    You have only paid 200 so far?

    No, I've paid 2100 thus far.


  • #8
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    No, I've paid 2100 thus far.


    Yeah I edited....


    Not sure why such a big deposit



    When I done finance recently. I gave them address/bank details/maybe a copy of bill. Two hours later they rang with approval and I paid everything the day I picked up car...I think I maybe had a 200 quid deposit or something....


    Maybe someone else knows more....but I didnt put down anything like 2k


    Was it cash or via Bank? the 2k?


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    No, I've paid 2100 thus far.

    Bluestone is not a dealer. It's a finance company. Scumbag sub-prime high interest lenders.

    Any link to the dealer/advert for the car you're buying? Most places providing finance like that are selling on less than optimal stock. Might be worth getting a few heads here to have a look into it for you.


  • #10
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Yeah I edited....


    Not sure why such a big deposit



    When I done finance recently. I gave them address/bank details/maybe a copy of bill. Two hours later they rang with approval and I paid everything the day I picked up car...I think I maybe had a 200 quid deposit or something....


    Maybe someone else knows more....but I didnt put down anything like 2k


    Was it cash or via Bank? the 2k?

    It was in cash. Yeah, I'm going to wait till Monday afternoon to give him a ring if he doesn't contact me first.
    JayZeus wrote: »
    Bluestone is not a dealer. It's a finance company. Scumbag sub-prime high interest lenders.

    Any link to the dealer/advert for the car you're buying? Most places providing finance like that are selling on less than optimal stock. Might be worth getting a few heads here to have a look into it for you.

    I was about to say no, cus I noticed he marked the car as sold few days after I paid the deposit but I just checked now again and there it is on donedeal. Put up 2 days ago!!!

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-rio-2015/19500614

    He's most likely lying about being on holidays as well cus there was no mention of that when I spoke to him yesterday.


  • #11
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    It was in cash. Yeah, I'm going to wait till Monday afternoon to give him a ring if he doesn't contact me first.



    I was about to say no, cus I noticed he marked the car as sold few days after I paid the deposit but I just checked now again and there it is on donedeal. Put up 2 days ago!!!

    https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-rio-2015/19500614

    He's most likely lying about being on holidays as well cus there was no mention of that when I spoke to him yesterday.


    Probably is on holiday and using the cash to pay for it. Then when he comes back will sort out the paperwork.


    I wouldn't be overly concerned at the moment. Ring on Monday. He will probably come up with some excuse for delay of contracts and then put them in....


    Small companies will use cash like that


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  • #12
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Probably is on holiday and using the cash to pay for it. Then when he comes back will sort out the paperwork.


    I wouldn't be overly concerned at the moment. Ring on Monday. He will probably come up with some excuse for delay of contracts and then put them in....


    Small companies will use cash like that

    But the holiday, true or false does not explain him putting the car up for sale again 2 days ago. Something must have happened with the lender. If he hadn't heard from them like he claimed, I can't imagine what else would prompt him to advertise the car again.

    I'm going to wait till Monday still.At least I have that one date in writing.


  • #13
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    I wouldn't read into the ad going back up too much. Most dealers have automatic renewal of ads through their donedeal account, that and you may find they might be using that ad just to drum up interest if they dont have a lot of stock and if you were to call about it they'd say "that one is actually sold, but I have a similar blue one/ a 2013 one coming in next week" etc.


  • #14
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,449 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Probably is on holiday and using the cash to pay for it. Then when he comes back will sort out the paperwork.


    I wouldn't be overly concerned at the moment. Ring on Monday. He will probably come up with some excuse for delay of contracts and then put them in....


    Small companies will use cash like that

    But the holiday, true or false does not explain him putting the car up for sale again 2 days ago. Something must have happened with the lender. If he hadn't heard from them like he claimed, I can't imagine what else would prompt him to advertise the car again.

    I'm going to wait till Monday still.At least I have that one date in writing.
    Get a friend to contact him from a different number, and check if he is on holidays to someone buying.


  • #15
    tobdom
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 514 ✭✭✭tobdom


    What's going to have changed between now & Monday based on what the financing company said?... He's just putting you off. I wouldn't worry so much about the car being advertised again, he might have a similar one coming in and he's just trying to drum up a bit of business ("Well the one in that ad now is actually sold but I have one just like it coming in next week....").

    Ring him from a landline (or have someone else ring), or text him from another mobile saying you're interested in X car and when would be best to call about it..... You'll soon be able to call bull**** properly on his holiday story depending on the kind of response you get.

    I'm assuming you have some kind of receipt for the 2k cash deposit?.....

    ETA: 2 previous posts bet me to the same advice/opinion while I was typing......


  • #16
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    But the holiday, true or false does not explain him putting the car up for sale again 2 days ago. Something must have happened with the lender. If he hadn't heard from them like he claimed, I can't imagine what else would prompt him to advertise the car again.

    I'm going to wait till Monday still.At least I have that one date in writing.


    Dealer put ad back up to save paying for a new one....


    I wouldn't worry about that....he will just say he is sourcing another car with same spec and was just checking to see if anyone interested...


    You have to remember this is not a main dealer. Even the cost of donedeal has to be kept to minimum.


  • #17
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    tobdom wrote: »
    What's going to have changed between now & Monday based on what the financing company said?... He's just putting you off. I wouldn't worry so much about the car being advertised again, he might have a similar one coming in and he's just trying to drum up a bit of business ("Well the one in that ad now is actually sold but I have one just like it coming in next week....").

    Ring him from a landline (or have someone else ring), or text him from another mobile saying you're interested in X car and when would be best to call about it..... You'll soon be able to call bull**** properly on his holiday story depending on the kind of response you get.

    I'm assuming you have some kind of receipt for the 2k cash deposit?.....

    ETA: 2 previous posts bet me to the same advice/opinion while I was typing......

    Yeah, i'm going to get someone else to ring him.

    I actually didn't get a receipt for the 2k. I copped right after I left that I should've requested one. I only have a receipt for the initial 200.


  • #18
    terrydel
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,881 ✭✭✭terrydel


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    Yeah, i'm going to get someone else to ring him.

    I actually didn't get a receipt for the 2k. I copped right after I left that I should've requested one. I only have a receipt for the initial 200.

    Jesus Christ. You are at the mercy of his good nature now. If he denies receiving it, you have a problem on your hands.


  • #19
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    terrydel wrote: »
    Jesus Christ. You are at the mercy of his good nature now. If he denies receiving it, you have a problem on your hands.

    Let's not overly stress the OP either. It's very unlikely they are going to do a runner with his money. Particularly if they are working from an established site. It's not like he met them in a Tesco car park.


  • #20
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    My friend called; the holiday story is definitely BS.


  • #21
    2cool4school
    Closed Accounts Posts: 162 ✭✭2cool4school


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    My friend called; the holiday story is definitely BS.

    uh-oh...


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,637 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    My friend called; the holiday story is definitely BS.

    You’re in for trouble so.


  • #23
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,219 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Ask your friend to arrange a viewing tomorrow, for that car.
    Instead,go down yourself and get your money back
    Bring a bit of help with you.


  • #24
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    What do people thing is going to happen here? The dealer is going to deny receiving the money and ask the OP to PFO? Call me naive but that seems unlikely, really.

    Sure he's a bit scatty, a blatant liar, dealing with a dodgy financial company selling ex UK stock but I doubt he will steal the deposit, that's a different kind of deceit that isn't usually conducted at a fixed premises.


  • #25
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    Toyotafanboi wrote: »
    What do people thing is going to happen here? The dealer is going to deny receiving the money and ask the OP to PFO? Call me naive but that seems unlikely, really.

    Sure he's a bit scatty, a blatant liar, dealing with a dodgy financial company selling ex UK stock but I doubt he will steal the deposit, that's a different kind of deceit that isn't usually conducted at a fixed premises.




    I agree, I can't see him doing a runner if he has a fixed office.


    I would go to his location and talk to him. Over the phone is pointless.


    Any issues...bringing help with you is pointless....ring the Garda.


    Did you at least take the money out of an account that you can show a big lump sum 2k coming out?


  • #26
    ThunderCat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,385 ✭✭✭ThunderCat


    If I were you OP, seeing as you don't have a receipt for the 2k, I'd download a call recording app onto my phone (free from the play store) and at least try to get him to verbally state through conversation that there was an exchange of the 2k between the pair of you. That way if he denies it at a future date at least you have an audio recording of him stating the exchange of money took place. Such a recording might not stand up in court or anything, I have no idea, but it may be enough to prompt the refund if he starts getting forgetful and you remind him of said recording.


  • #27
    Shefwedfan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,958 ✭✭✭✭Shefwedfan


    ThunderCat wrote: »
    If I were you OP, seeing as you don't have a receipt for the 2k, I'd download a call recording app onto my phone (free from the play store) and at least try to get him to verbally state through conversation that there was an exchange of the 2k between the pair of you. That way if he denies it at a future date at least you have an audio recording of him stating the exchange of money took place. Such a recording might not stand up in court or anything, I have no idea, but it may be enough to prompt the refund if he starts getting forgetful and you remind him of said recording.


    You need to tell the person you are recording the call.


    Also it beeps as far as I know so they will know even if you dont tell them

    Seeing as the OP has no receipt and no record of anything better off trying to deal with the person that automatically getting them on wrong foot


  • #28
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    Personally I hate these places with "Trade Sales" in their Business Name. Usually just an excuse to offer fairly clean high-mileage Cars without a Warranty.

    Mostly UK Auction or Irish trade-ins that the Main Dealer wanted off his premises for half what it's on sale for now.
    This particular Car isn't even showing as 'Sold to a Dealer' on motortax.ie, which is a bit worrying as any stock these guys source from a Main Dealer will have been electronically passed to the main dealer.
    This may have been a trade-in taken by the Seller himself.....which makes you wonder why the previous owner did a deal here. There's nothing currently on the guy's site that would be anything remotely like an obvious choice to replace a 2015 Rio with.


  • #29
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,245 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    You need to tell the person you are recording the call.


    Also it beeps as far as I know so they will know even if you dont tell them

    Seeing as the OP has no receipt and no record of anything better off trying to deal with the person that automatically getting them on wrong foot


    No you don't. Only one party has to give consent to the recording of the phone call. In this case it's obviously the OP.
    As long as one of the two parties involved in the dispute are part of the conversation then it is perfectly legal to record the conversation.


    See post #14;

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057712374


    I have a call recording app on my phone and it definitely does not beep (at either person's end) when recording.


    edit; BTW I didn't intend to have a go at yourself Shefwedfan. I was just letting the OP know the story.


  • #30
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,477 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    What’s the apr on the finance deal?


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  • #31
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    Shefwedfan wrote: »
    Any issues...bringing help with you is pointless....ring the Garda.

    Unless the handover of 2k was witnessed by a third party or captured on cctv, involving the Guards is fairly pointless too. One man's word against another can only result in the matter being left to civil remedy.

    I think the OP's got themselves in a bit of a tizzy here & just sitting tight for a couple of days will likely see it all resolved.


  • #32
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,449 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Yamanoto wrote: »
    Unless the handover of 2k was witnessed by a third party or captured on cctv, involving the Guards is fairly pointless too. One man's word against another can only result in the matter being left to civil remedy.
    Almost every case in every court is 'one man's word against another'. Witnesses and video are very helpful for sure, but if you've been ripped off of €2k, you should certainly take it to the Gardai.


  • #33
    Yamanoto
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,489 ✭✭✭Yamanoto


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Almost every case in every court is 'one man's word against another'.

    Not without a requisite amount of accompanying evidence to either support or call into question what's being alleged.

    Law officers won't sanction a prosecution with nada. I get the argument that it should still be reported to allow for an investigation, futile though that might be, in the absence of any supporting evidence.


  • #34
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    OP needs to do the 100 minutes trip and meet in person.


    The finance company may be 'scumbags', but they'll be legit.



    The car dealer is treating you with disdain because, simply, you've been naive. Also, possibly because the finance deal has fallen apart because of you not being able to supply the required documents. While the dealer is probably feeling a bit aggrieved too (not saying he has a right to) he'll likely come good in the end - but help yourself and go meet him.


  • #35
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Lads if I was the OP I wouldn't have slept last night because of the rubbish posted here.

    OP there is clearly a delay, you've contacted the finance company and they have highlighted that to you. The dealer appears to be buying time to rectify it.

    I'd just sit tight for a few days. For now ignore all talk of Guards, solicitors, court and bring heavies with you.

    Completely over the top and unnecessary for people to post.


  • #36
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Thanks everyone for the contributions. I plan on heading down there after work on Monday. At the very least, I'm going to get a receipt for the down payment.

    In regards to Avatar MIA's post, I think you misconstrued portions of my story. I provided every single document they asked for and I've an email where they said those were all fine. That's why I was shocked when they mentioned an address mismatch. The dealer never mentioned that to me.


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  • #37
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,750 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Shine2018 wrote: »
    Thanks everyone for the contributions. I plan on heading down there after work on Monday. At the very least, I'm going to get a receipt for the down payment.

    In regards to Avatar MIA's post, I think you misconstrued portions of my story. I provided every single document they asked for and I've an email where they said those were all fine. That's why I was shocked when they mentioned an address mismatch. The dealer never mentioned that to me.

    No, understood what you wrote. Normally what a finance company will do is confirm the type of proof is acceptable i.e. not a mobile bill. But what they'll only pick up on later is if the information on the proof of address is not the same as your application address. That check happens around the time of the credit history check.


  • #38
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    The delay is due to AML (Anti money laundering) regulations. Every financial services company must satisfy the identity of every customer.
    The dealer sounds like a bit of an idiot and a bad communicator but I doubt he is stealing your deposit.


  • #39
    Toyotafanboi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭Toyotafanboi


    ba_barabus wrote: »
    Lads if I was the OP I wouldn't have slept last night because of the rubbish posted here.

    OP there is clearly a delay, you've contacted the finance company and they have highlighted that to you. The dealer appears to be buying time to rectify it.

    I'd just sit tight for a few days. For now ignore all talk of Guards, solicitors, court and bring heavies with you.

    Completely over the top and unnecessary for people to post.

    Here here.


  • #40
    clfy39tzve8njq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 597 ✭✭✭clfy39tzve8njq


    Did you get sorted OP ?


  • #41
    Shine2018
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭Shine2018


    Update:

    So I drove down to the garage on Monday after work. I relayed to him what the lending company told me over the phone. Apparently he missed an email they had sent him last Tuesday iterating the address mismatch. He rang them and it turns out the mismatch was due to a typo on their part in the contract doc. They were going to rectify it but according to the dealer it would still be a matter of days before I could drive away with the car. I was relieved but simultaneously annoyed that the transaction was yet again being dragged out through another week. At least I got him to write me a receipt for the down payment.

    One of the posts made here on the first page about Bluestone being high credit lenders stuck with me. I calculated the overall cost of the repayment and the interest astounded me. I came home and looked into obtaining a bank loan as an alternative. The interest rate was much lower. I applied online and it was approved instantaneously. I rang the dealer the next day and told I'll be paying for the car directly. I collected the car earlier today :) Bluestone's dillydallying worked out in my favour so all's good. Most importantly, it's been quite the learning curve.

    Thanks again to everyone that contributed. It made a difference.


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  • #42
    George Dalton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,728 ✭✭✭George Dalton


    Good to see you got sorted and that you managed to recognise and act on the good advice from all the hysteria and nonsense in this thread.

    Just to reiterate what another poster said earlier in the three, Bluestone are a sub-prime lender and as such I can never understand why some dealers use them as their default choice for finance. We deal with Bluestone plus 2 other finance companies and only ever use Bluestone as a last resort and always warn people about the higher interest rates before making an application.


  • #43
    ba_barabus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,617 ✭✭✭ba_barabus


    Glad to see you got sorted without resorting to the rubbish posted by some.


  • #44
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    What rates do bluestone charge?
    I see their name here a good bit.
    Are they a bit over the odds like 10% or a mad level altogether and lend to everyone?
    I never get loans myself which precludes me from getting shiny new cars but I'm happy to go well back the years and buy in cash (many many years back in most cases!)


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