Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

Kermit.de.frog · 06-03-2019 9:59pm #1

...for the 7th separate occasion since 2012!

https://www.thejournal.ie/kildare-farmer-thomas-reid-lodges-fresh-objection-in-ongoing-battle-with-intel-4527582-Mar2019/?utm_source=twitter_short

In total, the $8 billion (€7bn) investment – which will employ 6,000 construction workers at peak and 1,600 full time jobs on completion – will represent the largest single private investment in the history of the State on one project if given the go-ahead by Intel globally.

Consultants for Intel have told Kildare County Council that the firm has already invested $12.5 billion (€11bn) on its site at Leixlip and the firm is seeking a 10 year planning permission for its new application.

However, Reid of Hedsor House, Blakestown, Carton, Maynooth, is seeking to frustrate the multi-national’s plans after lodging a two page hand-written objection against the new application.

I hope this is not another Apple in Galway fiasco

This time the cost could be far more real and devastating for this area than Apple in Galway.

Fr_Dougal · 06-03-2019 10:07pm

They tried a CPO on his farm.

In 2015, Reid emerged victorious in his battle with the IDA where a unanimous Supreme Court found that the IDA making of a Compulsory Purchase Order (CPO) for Reid’s 72-acre farm adjacent to the Intel campus had been in excess of the IDA’s powers.

Can’t really blame him.

KERSPLAT! · 06-03-2019 10:08pm

I'd like to know his reasons before branding him any sort of so and so. He may have legitimate concerns, and if so I would hope some sort of compromise could be made considering the impact such a site would have locally. Huge money involved.

Victor · 06-03-2019 10:08pm

Is this the same guy who the IDA tried to take his land illegally to give to Intel. I think the "crazy" comment might be unfair and in such circumstances any anxiety might be understandable.

Kermit.de.frog · 06-03-2019 10:09pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

They tried a CPO on his farm.

Can’t really blame him.

Ok, I removed the "crazy" comment.

BUT...they didn't CPO his land so why is he objecting then???

amcalester · 06-03-2019 10:09pm

Victor wrote: »

Is this the same guy who the IDA tried to take his land illegally to give to Intel. I think the "crazy" comment might be unfair and in such circumstances any anxiety might be understandable.

The very same.

freshpopcorn · 06-03-2019 10:10pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I'd like to know his reasons before branding him any sort of so and so. He may have legitimate concerns, and if so I would hope some sort of compromise could be made considering the impact such a site would have locally. Huge money involved.

From my understanding he doesn't want to give up his farm/land that has being in his family for generations.

06-03-2019 10:10pm

if one fella needs to have a cpo hit him for 8bn to be invested then that is exactly what should happen

Wheeliebin30 · 06-03-2019 10:11pm

Was listening to something on the radio yesterday about how in other countries the good of the nation and people trumps the worry of a few individuals when it comes to things like this.

Basically most countries just tell the people this is happening and you can do nothing about it.

It’s for the greater good.

These numpties are always complaining about something.

Nimbyisn at its finest and also a huge factor in the housing situation.

major bill · 06-03-2019 10:12pm

Would love to know more about his reasons the article doesn’t go into a lot of detail on this!!

KERSPLAT! · 06-03-2019 10:12pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

if one fella needs to have a cpo hit him for 8bn to be invested then that is exactly what should happen

Legally. It should be done legally, not like the previous CPO, according to the article.

TheValeyard · 06-03-2019 10:13pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

if one fella needs to have a cpo hit him for 8bn to be invested then that is exactly what should happen

Easy to say when it's not your family home and legacy. It's a complex situation.

Victor · 06-03-2019 10:13pm

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Was listening to something on the radio yesterday about how in other countries the good of the nation and people trumps the worry of a few individuals when it comes to things like this.

That may be well and good where it is a public service like a road, water pipe or power line.

A factory owner not willing to pay market price for land is a whole other matter.

LessOutragePlz · 06-03-2019 10:13pm

When do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or in this case one person?

I'm going to say that this is a case where the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of one person.

Plumbthedepths · 06-03-2019 10:14pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

BUT...they didn't CPO his land so why is he objecting then???

Only because he took the IDA to the supreme court and won.

Kermit.de.frog · 06-03-2019 10:15pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Only because he took the IDA to the supreme court and won.

And...why object now then?

Just for spite or just because he can???

Plumbthedepths · 06-03-2019 10:17pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Just for spite or just because he can???

You could ask him instead of branding him crazy.

type85 · 06-03-2019 10:18pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

When do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or in this case one person?

I'm going to say that this is a case where the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of one person.

What is this "need" and where does this "need" come from?

Bada Bing Boy · 06-03-2019 10:19pm

Victor wrote: »

That may be well and good where it is a public service like a road, water pipe or power line.

A factory owner not willing to pay market price for land is a whole other matter.

I grew up on a farm nearby and know well he was offered above and beyond the market value of his land..

06-03-2019 10:19pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Easy to say when it's not your family home and legacy. It's a complex situation.

it's easy to say full stop

our obsession with the individual landowner in this country is a large part of what has the place fcuked

the field is as piercing an observation as it ever was about our fetish for thick fcukers and their connection to 'the land'

the greater good

Kermit.de.frog · 06-03-2019 10:19pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You could ask him instead of branding him crazy.

Reid unsuccessfully opposed the $4 billion first phase of the ‘fab’ plan in 2017 when lodging an objection against the application and then appealing the Council decision to An Bord Pleanála.

Strikes me as a crazy vendetta because the IDA tried CPO his land.

They haven't CPO'ed his land because he won so I don't see why 1,000's of jobs should be put at risk.

TheValeyard · 06-03-2019 10:20pm

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

When do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or in this case one person?

I'm going to say that this is a case where the needs of the many should outweigh the needs of one person.

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 10:21pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

I'd like to know his reasons before branding him any sort of so and so. He may have legitimate concerns, and if so I would hope some sort of compromise could be made considering the impact such a site would have locally. Huge money involved.

He has totally legitimate concerns, that's why he has won previously in court.

The plans Intel have are not in accordance with proper planning and development of the area.

06-03-2019 10:21pm

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

Legally. It should be done legally, not like the previous CPO, according to the article.

i agree

but it should be a lot easier and quicker to do legally

and objecting should be a lot more difficult and expensive

and decisions should be much quicker in all cases

Plumbthedepths · 06-03-2019 10:21pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote:

Strikes me as a crazy vendetta because the IDA tried CPO his land.

You're only guessing so you don't know, just as you assumed you know his mental state

TheValeyard · 06-03-2019 10:22pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

it's easy to say full stop

our obsession with the individual landowner in this country is a large part of what has the place fcuked

Probably because of the individual landowners getting fcuked over by the powers that be in the past. Land is a very sensitive issue in this country.

Mad_maxx · 06-03-2019 10:23pm

freshpopcorn wrote: »

From my understanding he doesn't want to give up his farm/land that has being in his family for generations.

There wouldn't be a decent road in the country if guys like him were indulged

06-03-2019 10:24pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

He has totally legitimate concerns, that's why he has won previously in court.

The plans Intel have are not in accordance with proper planning and development of the area.

i dont know if its only on boards or what

but everywhere else on the internet knows that the phrase 'legitimate concerns' is genuinely like a shorthand/dogwhistle for 'bad faith opposition'

KERSPLAT! · 06-03-2019 10:25pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

i agree

but it should be a lot easier and quicker to do legally

and objecting should be a lot more difficult and expensive

and decisions should be much quicker in all cases

It shouldn't be more difficult and more expensive, the common man should be able to lodge an appeal the same as any other. You shouldn't need to be wealthy to do so.

I'm not saying I agree with this man but there's an appeal process and he's free to avail of it. The same as he did regarding an illegal CPO.

I do agree that all of this should be done much quicker however to avoid issues like the datacentre

LessOutragePlz · 06-03-2019 10:25pm

type85 wrote: »

What is this "need" and where does this "need" come from?

The need for jobs/employment which in turn will support other secondary jobs and provide the government with increased tax revenue.

While I'm presuming the other person's need is for his land for future generations and/or his livelihood.

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 10:26pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

There wouldn't be a decent road in the country if guys like him were indulged

Nowhere near the truth.

06-03-2019 10:26pm

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

Probably because of the individual landowners getting fcuked over by the powers that be in the past. Land is a very sensitive issue in this country.

no, thought its a quick and handy response

its because theres a lovely industry in land banking, a lovely industry in the legal and administrative barriers, a lovely industry in inflating the price of public purchase of assets and above all a contempt for the idea that experts should ever be able to make and enforce a decision against a gob****e in this country

hearkening back to absentee landlords and all that is an embarrassment tbh

screamer · 06-03-2019 10:27pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

There wouldn't be a decent road in the country if guys like him were indulged

They are though, the amount of work they get done as part of any CPO is unreal. I often think wow, it actually adds value compared to the **** holes that they were before they got miles of fencing, tarmac driveways, masonry walls and lots of other things too. Sheds, even whole new fields created out of bogs for them. So being whingy pays off, and by Jaysus can farmers whinge

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 10:27pm

Deleted User wrote: »

i dont know if its only on boards or what

but everywhere else on the internet knows that the phrase 'legitimate concerns' is genuinely like a shorthand/dogwhistle for 'bad faith opposition'

What point are you trying to make?

ongarite · 06-03-2019 10:28pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

if one fella needs to have a cpo hit him for 8bn to be invested then that is exactly what should happen

Nothing of his land is being CPOd for this planning application.
Plans are on Kildare CoCo planning for all to see.
All the development will be on the existing site, just looking for change from previous granted planning application to increase the FAB size, nearly double it.

The farmer's land in the bottom left of the blue/yellow line

TheValeyard · 06-03-2019 10:30pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

no, thought its a quick and handy response

its because theres a lovely industry in land banking, a lovely industry in the legal and administrative barriers, a lovely industry in inflating the price of public purchase of assets and above all a contempt for the idea that experts should ever be able to make and enforce a decision against a gob****e in this country

hearkening back to absentee landlords and all that is an embarrassment tbh

Yeah, damn past and people learning from it to make sure it will never happen again and act cautiously around institutions or groups seeking land. ..........embarrassing.

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 10:30pm

screamer wrote: »

They are though, the amount of work they get done as part of any CPO is unreal. I often think wow, it actually adds value compared to the **** holes that they were before they got miles of fencing, tarmac driveways, masonry walls and lots of other things too. Sheds, even whole new fields created out of bogs for them. So being whingy pays off, and by Jaysus can farmers whinge

Don't forget the tunnels built under the new roads so cattle can access and egress the milking parlour from different fields.

06-03-2019 10:31pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

What point are you trying to make?

i made it.

you may still, however, be 'trying' to grasp it.

TheValeyard · 06-03-2019 10:33pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

i made it.

you may still, however, be 'trying' to grasp it.

Mrsmum · 06-03-2019 10:40pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

Don't forget the tunnels built under the new roads so cattle can access and egress the milking parlour from different fields.

And how would a farmer get his cows across the main road otherwise. Stop all the traffic.

Mrsmum · 06-03-2019 10:44pm

The man doesn't have a family ie kids as far as I know so it's not for future generations of his own family he's fighting for. He seems to be fighting on matters of principal as he sees them.

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 11:00pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

And how would a farmer get his cows across the main road otherwise. Stop all the traffic.

I'm not trying to say it's wrong that these tunnels were built, stopping traffic just wouldn't work and neither would bridges.

Giveaway · 06-03-2019 11:00pm

Maybe is planning to sell his land to AMD

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 11:03pm

Mrsmum wrote: »

The man doesn't have a family ie kids as far as I know so it's not for future generations of his own family he's fighting for. He seems to be fighting on matters of principal as he sees them.

And I for one wish him the best of luck in his fight not to bullied by a corporate giant.

dresden8 · 06-03-2019 11:04pm

Rich man says "Gimme".

We are obliged to give.

Nah, I don't think so.

Kermit.de.frog · 06-03-2019 11:06pm

Rows Grower wrote: »

And I for one wish him the best of luck in his fight not to bullied by a corporate giant.

Ok, and if Intel says we'll invest in Israel instead and wind down Leixlip due to ludicrous planning fiascos in Ireland you would be perfectly happy with that?

All those high paid jobs, local jobs, local funds and national revenues gone.

This man's land is NOT being CPO'ed - it's a grudge.

7th time objecting.

eqwjewoiujqorj · 06-03-2019 11:09pm

Seems to be plenty of space for intel to expand - might make sense for them to expand west but it's not like it's the only option.

greencap · 06-03-2019 11:22pm

2019: but its been in my family for generations. my grandpappy bought it in 18 diggity 2 for a goat and a fur lined hat.

2020: $8 billion investment gets denied. goes somewhere else. adios losers.

2030: Empty field.

2040: Distant Australian relative, twice removed, sells precious family heritage, half goes to his ex wife in a divorce.

2041: Irish people continue to grumble about legacy of unemployment. A nation scratches its head and wonders why.

tabby aspreme · 06-03-2019 11:23pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ok, and if Intel says we'll invest in Israel instead and wind down Leixlip due to ludicrous planning fiascos in Ireland you would be perfectly happy with that?

All those high paid jobs, local jobs, local funds and national revenues gone.

This man's land is NOT being CPO'ed - it's a grudge.

7th time objecting.

There has already been an attempt to illegally cpo this land by the IDA , the legislation has since been changed to give the IDA more powers to build land banks, I'm sure the man is objecting because, if Intel do get planning his land will be subject to a CPO once more

Rows Grower · 06-03-2019 11:25pm

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Ok, and if Intel says we'll invest in Israel instead and wind down Leixlip due to ludicrous planning fiascos in Ireland you would be perfectly happy with that?

All those high paid jobs, local jobs, local funds and national revenues gone.

This man's land is NOT being CPO'ed - it's a grudge.

7th time objecting.

If Intel want to go to Israel that's entirely up to them.

What you and they need to understand first and foremost is that they must obey the law of the land here in Ireland if they want to do business here.

They are not basing themselves here in Ireland for any other reason than it makes better business sense than being located anywhere else.

Kermit.de.frog · 06-03-2019 11:27pm

tabby aspreme wrote: »

There has already been an attempt to illegally cpo this land by the IDA , the legislation has since been changed to give the IDA more powers to build land banks, I'm sure the man is objecting because, if Intel do get planning his land will be subject to a CPO once more

The planning application has nothing to do with his land.

So Intel should not be allowed expand on this site ever because this man's land might eventually be CPO'ed for something else?

What kind of mickey mouse way would that be to go about things?

Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

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