Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

Bob24 · 21-12-2017 6:29pm

Quite limited but some quotes from VC reps here explaining their point of view as well: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-ryanair-pilots-germany/german-pilots-union-calls-for-a-strike-on-friday-at-ryanair-idUSKBN1EF27I?il=0

German unions are strong and pilots there seem pissed-off and ready to take action. It might become a bit of a headache for Ryanair. If there are strikes and Ryanair makes concessions, it will become a template for unions in other countries. But if there are no concessions it could also escalate in Germany and spread elsewhere.

devnull · 21-12-2017 6:51pm

No business I have worked for would accept a disgruntled former contractor who is involved with litigation with the company as a representative of current staff at the company and for very good reasons.

The Ryanair pilots should also ask themselves if such person would be able to represent them objectively as well bearing that in mind that it would appear there is some baggage between the individual and the company.

There's no reason for such people to be involved, the pilots should be represented by fellow pilots to ensure that the pilots are working in their own interests and not in the interests of their competitors or other interest groups with a grudge.

Bazzy · 21-12-2017 6:58pm

devnull wrote: »

No business I have worked for would accept a disgruntled former contractor who is involved with litigation with the company as a representative of current staff at the company and for very good reasons.

The Ryanair pilots should also ask themselves if such person would be able to represent them objectively as well bearing that in mind that it would appear there is some baggage between the individual and the company.

There's no reason for such people to be involved, the pilots should be represented by fellow pilots to ensure that the pilots are working in their own interests and not in the interests of their competitors or other interest groups with a grudge.

In my last job we we're faced with such a position someone who had been dismissed a result of their own actions , They tried to set up a mini union away from the main recognised union.

We obviously didnt engage and told them as much in a polite manner

But i'd agree with Ryanair on this one they're dancing with the devil as it is without having to deal with that

Bob24 · 21-12-2017 7:44pm

devnull wrote: »

No business I have worked for would accept a disgruntled former contractor who is involved with litigation with the company as a representative of current staff at the company and for very good reasons.

The Ryanair pilots should also ask themselves if such person would be able to represent them objectively as well bearing that in mind that it would appear there is some baggage between the individual and the company.

There's no reason for such people to be involved, the pilots should be represented by fellow pilots to ensure that the pilots are working in their own interests and not in the interests of their competitors or other interest groups with a grudge.

The situation is probably not as simple as you picture it (you mostly base your views on Ryanair's version of the story which is obviously biased - as the version of the union would also be).

Pilots are no more stupid than the average Joe here and have no reason to send "bad" representatives, so it is probably a bit more complicated than that. To know if unions are taking the piss (or if it is Ryanair, or both), it would take someone who knows how unions are usually organised in Germany and exactly what is the background/situation of these pilots.

Mebuntu · 21-12-2017 8:22pm

Nobody should be surprised. This is just the beginning of the retribution I mentioned in an earlier post. I also omitted to mention the word vindictiveness.

Out of all the pilots available, purposely choosing people they knew Ryanair wouldn't deal with gives them the opprtunity to flex their muscles and at the same time claim that Ryanair had reneged.

The words and tone of their statement confirm this.

Add to this that Lufthansa and its unions don't want Ryanair to get a stronghold in Germany and, like everything else in that country, they always look after number 1 even when EU regulations don't allow it.

Expect more of the same to come.

la ultima guagua · 21-12-2017 8:22pm

Bob24 wrote: »

The situation is probably not as simple as you picture it ...

Indeed.

Who has the most to gain from a Ryanair German bases strike

I would suggest that it is NOT

- Said pilots

or

- Ryanair

what of

- Other airlines with significant German operations ?

devnull · 21-12-2017 8:29pm

Bob24 wrote: »

The situation is probably not as simple as you picture it (you mostly base your views on Ryanair's version of the story which is obviously biased - as the version of the union would also be).

Someone who is in legal proceedings with a former employer tends not to be the most objective person when it comes to dealing with that employer as normally such people have left on very bad terms and are often very disgruntled and have a grudge and want some kind of retribution.

If you were a C level executive in a company would you allow a disgruntled former employee who is involved in litigation, I assume about defamation in this case, to represent your existing staff and be totally comfortable with that and not be worried at all?

Because honestly I can tell you from working alongside a HR Department there is no way that anyone would allow that because it would just foster an air of distrust and suspicion at all times and wouldn't bring the sides further together at all, move drive them apart.

If what Ryanair says is not true why do VC not come out and say that it isn't? Their statement has a lot of rhetoric but is notable for the fact that it completely fails to mention anything of any real substance or detail as to why.

Bob24 · 21-12-2017 8:50pm

la ultima guagua wrote: »

Indeed.

Who has the most to gain from a Ryanair German bases strike

I would suggest that it is NOT

- Said pilots

or

- Ryanair

what of

- Other airlines with significant German operations ?

I don't pretend I know the situation enough to make a call on what the real issue is.

But posters here who assume they know what is good for the pilots better than the pilots know themselves have limited credibility in my view. Pilots know the exact situation on the ground and are personally involved ... posters here don't and are often taking sides.

duskyjoe · 22-12-2017 12:01am

Devnull....I’ve seen enough. Your way too partisan as a Mod. Disgraceful. Ban me.

L1011 · 22-12-2017 12:03am

duskyjoe wrote: »

Devnull....I’ve seen enough. Your way too partisan as a Mod. Disgraceful. Ban me.

He can't ban you here, as he's not a mod here and you'll note he has been warned in this thread. And you're being warned as this kind of post is unacceptable regardless of what poster it is about

CoisFharraige · 22-12-2017 4:12pm

My German from college has never come in handy, but here we go I might as well put it to use, I've translated this from the VC German union's website. Strike didn't cause much damage externally as it seems, and most flights were only delayed slightly as they flew in crews as expected.

This Friday morning at 9am brought an end to the strike of Ryanair pilots in Germany. From the point of view of Vereinigung Cockpit (VC) the strike was successful. The strike was very high in numbers and an overwhelming majority of Ryanair's employees supported the strike.

A spokesperson for them, Markus Wahl, said "Almost half of the flights concerned are delayed and, on the other flights, Ryanair used pilots who were not partaking in the strike, such as non-permanent pilots or, as in Frankfurt am Main, pilots in their probationary period. "Although they wanted to show fake results, this didn't change the actual result being that the pressure that the pilots wanted to produce definitely hit-home.

In the period up to 26.12.2017, there will be no further industrial action at Ryanair.

"Whether or not this means further strikes after Christmas, depends solely on Ryanair's management. It's obvious that we want to negotiate with the VC [to RYR] at an equal level without any strings attached, we are ready for talks. On the other hand, if Ryanair wants to again decide who exactly they want to negotiate with, then it's clear to us that they don't really want to resolve this, and that strike action is again not out of the question, by any means." added Ingolf Schumacher, chairman of collective bargaining at the VC.

"The fear of retaliation in the company is noticeably decreasing, despite this, a permanent Ryanair pilot was fired by the company last month, two days after it emerged that he was a member of the VC. Of course, it is not right that the collective bargaining commission can be deprived of the right to continue to negotiate and support this bargaining just because it has found itself in a dismissal protection lawsuit - it's not right." Concluded Schumacher.

Mebuntu · 22-12-2017 7:44pm

As I read that article it painted a picture of highly-paid, well-off and thoughtless, selfish men gloating about their efforts to upset the Christmas homecoming plans of ordinary hard-working people. I suspect they might be among the most difficult to negotiate with. Only time will tell.

smurfjed · 22-12-2017 10:33pm

You do realise that Ryanair have treated their pilots like crap for years ? So I’m not sure where you are getting the idea that they are well paid and well off.

billy few mates · 22-12-2017 11:48pm

smurfjed wrote: »

You do realise that Ryanair have treated their pilots like crap for years ? So I’m not sure where you are getting the idea that they are well paid and well off.

Ignore him, he’s trolling...

donkey balls · 24-12-2017 12:35pm

Was informed yesterday that the contract lads hourly rate of pay is going up in the new year, Nothing mentioned about the employed lads.

pepe the prawn · 24-12-2017 1:30pm

donkey balls wrote: »

Was informed yesterday that the contract lads hourly rate of pay is going up in the new year, Nothing mentioned about the employed lads.

FO’s or just captains or both?

donkey balls · 24-12-2017 1:34pm

pepe the prawn wrote: »

FO’s or just captains or both?

My mate is an FO not sure about captains.

donkey balls · 24-12-2017 3:10pm

The pay rise is for all contractors.

Bob24 · 03-01-2018 9:18am

So Ryanair is meeting Impact members today and apparently expected to formally recognise them as representatives of pilots.

Bob24 · 03-01-2018 4:55pm

Bob24 wrote: »

So Ryanair is meeting Impact members today and apparently expected to formally recognise them as representatives of pilots.

No final deal yet but positive noise from the union:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-talks-with-pilots-constructive-says-union-1.3343749

Bazzy · 01-02-2018 10:01pm

Things have gone very quiet on the Ryanair news front , is it to be assumed all is well in camp?

Bob24 · 01-02-2018 10:08pm

Bazzy wrote: »

Things have gone very quiet on the Ryanair news front , is it to be assumed all is well in camp?

Recognising unions seems to have dodged the strike bullet for now, but apparently unions/pilots are not too happy with how talk are going:

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2018/0119/934627-ryanair/
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/ryanair-and-trade-union-f%C3%B3rsa-clash-over-pay-increase-offer-1.3360221
https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/ryanair-engaged-in-negative-talks-with-unions-pilots-representation-36555539.html

So it seems like we are out of acute crisis mode for now, but it could come back in the future.

View Profile · 01-02-2018 10:43pm

Bazzy wrote:

Things have gone very quiet on the Ryanair news front , is it to be assumed all is well in camp?

All is not well.

Negotiations with management are going very slowly. In Ireland, Forsa (formerly Impact) have yet to be officially recognised by Ryanair as the trade union for their pilots. (Management are fixated on IALPA being a purely Aer Lingus entity and so they refuse to engage with them on any level)

Ryanair management are instead busy trying to force through individual deals with pilots, one on one, rather than through collective bargaining.

It will be a long and difficult road for the pilots. And if MOL wants to restore market confidence in the airline he's going to have to swallow his stubbornness and allow staff to have fair terms and conditions in-line with Ryanairs competitor airlines.

View Profile · 26-02-2018 10:46am

Ryanair pilot council sends letter to MOL requesting his resignation over failure to resolve crewing issues.

https://www.independent.ie/business/council-representing-ryanair-pilots-calls-on-michael-oleary-to-resign-36642088.html

View Profile · 29-03-2018 10:54am

http://theportugalnews.com/news/ryanairs-portugal-cabin-crew-look-set-to-go-ahead-with-easter-strikes/45160

Cabin crew in a Portugal begin a 3 day strike today as negotiations with management were "fruitless".

IngazZagni · 29-03-2018 12:26pm

Multiple cancellations in Portugal today. Many other flights delayed and operated by non portugease crews.

Well done to the Ryanair cabin crew for sticking up for themselves over their appalling T's&C's. They deserve better while working for such a highly profitable company.

JCX BXC · 29-03-2018 1:07pm

IngazZagni wrote: »

Multiple cancellations in Portugal today. Many other flights delayed and operated by non portugease crews.

I can only find 2 cancellations in the whole of Portugal so far today, both from Porto and both to France. Is this 'Multiple Cancellations'? It seems very tame actually in my opinion.

IngazZagni · 29-03-2018 1:22pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

I can only find 2 cancellations in the whole of Portugal so far today, both from Porto and both to France. Is this 'Multiple Cancellations'? It seems very tame actually in my opinion.

12 flights cancelled so far according to the Ryanair website. Many other flights were due to depart at 6am but still have not and are not listed as cancelled as they are hoping they can fly crews in from other countries to do it at some stage today. The Porto to Dublin flight due to depart at midday still hasn't left for example too. I applaud all cabin crew taking part.

View Profile · 29-03-2018 2:32pm

According to the Portuguese Union it is illegal to bring in an external labour force during a strike.
So Ryanair is breaking Portuguese law an liable to legal action.

JCX BXC · 29-03-2018 2:41pm

View Profile wrote: »

According to the Portuguese Union it is illegal to bring in an external labour force during a strike.
So Ryanair is breaking Portuguese law an liable to legal action.

It's not an external workforce if they all work for the same company!

IngazZagni · 29-03-2018 2:52pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

It's not an external workforce if they all work for the same company!

Many Ryanair cabin crew don't work for Ryanair. They work for external agencies as self employed contractors many of whom on zero hour contracts. Same goes for pilots and other positions.

JCX BXC · 29-03-2018 2:57pm

IngazZagni wrote: »

Many Ryanair cabin crew don't work for Ryanair. They work for external agencies as self employed contractors many of whom on zero hour contracts. Same goes for pilots and other positions.

Right.

Your personal hatrid for the company doesn't affect law I'm afraid.

IngazZagni · 29-03-2018 3:18pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

Right.

Your personal hatrid for the company doesn't affect law I'm afraid.

I don't hate the company. Far from it. It is one of the best Irish success stories ever. MOL is a genius. I use them regularly but I also know they treat many staff poorly and I want that to change. The company will make a profit well north of 1 Billion euro this year so they should invest in their staff. Then it'll be a company everyone can be proud of.

As for law allow the Portuguese unions deal with that in this instance.

Bob24 · 29-03-2018 3:28pm

JCX BXC wrote: »

It's not an external workforce if they all work for the same company!

I’d say a Portuguese judge would be more qualified to make such a definite statement. I have no idea but the law could well consider that someone who doesn’t have an employment contract with the company in Portugal is considered external workforce in this situation.

LeChienMefiant · 29-03-2018 3:38pm

IngazZagni wrote: »

As for law allow the Portuguese unions deal with that in this instance.

Or maybe the courts of law / judiciary? The union statement re workers conditions is unclear for starters (are they talking about Portuguese workers or all workers flying into Portugal), then their proclamations re scab labour is further dubious.

View Profile · 29-03-2018 4:31pm

Each base has a different contract with the company (Ryanair/Crewlink)so you as an employee have to abide by that country's employment law.
Luckily Portuguese employment law favours employees rather than employers (unlike backward Ireland) so they receive more protection.
Apparently the Portuguese police are involved with preventing these Spanish based crews operating the Portuguese flights.

IngazZagni · 29-03-2018 6:48pm

LeChienMefiant wrote: »

Or maybe the courts of law / judiciary? The union statement re workers conditions is unclear for starters (are they talking about Portuguese workers or all workers flying into Portugal), then their proclamations re scab labour is further dubious.

Well yes of course. I meant they will be providing legal representation for the cabin crew.

Ryanair however will try and get the case to be heard in Ireland under Irish employment law as they always do as our labour laws are more lax.

Bob24 · 29-03-2018 9:38pm

Latest count seems to be 20 flight cancellations in Portugal today: https://www.reuters.com/article/ryanair-strike/update-1-ryanair-cancels-20-portugal-flights-as-cabin-crew-strike-idUSL8N1RB63L

IngazZagni · 29-03-2018 11:46pm

Bob24 wrote: »

Latest count seems to be 20 flight cancellations in Portugal today: https://www.reuters.com/article/ryanair-strike/update-1-ryanair-cancels-20-portugal-flights-as-cabin-crew-strike-idUSL8N1RB63L

Plus many many other flights with long delays. For example the Porto to Dublin flight is currently in the air with a delay of 10 hours and being operated by an Irish based crew.

View Profile · 18-06-2018 7:57pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0618/971426-ryanair/

Irish pilots preparing to strike again for better treatment.

SleetAndSnow · 18-06-2018 8:00pm

View Profile wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0618/971426-ryanair/

Irish pilots preparing to strike again for better treatment.

Would most likely affect next month if voted through, the busiest month for tourism etc. Hopefully not!

View Profile · 18-06-2018 8:51pm

SleetAndSnow wrote:

Would most likely affect next month if voted through, the busiest month for tourism etc. Hopefully not!

Irish law requires 7 days notice before industrial action commences so could potentially be next week.

kevinandrew · 26-06-2018 10:45pm

There's trouble brewing in Spain, talks are due tomorrow to avert a potential 3 day cabin crew strike.

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/news/on-euro-weekly-news/spain-news-in-english/1473011-ryanair-cabin-crew-summer-strike-set-to-affect-115,000-passengers-a-day-in-spain-alone#.WzKhaqXvu2J.twitter

Slightly closer to home, a member of Ryanair crew appears to holding a one man strike outside Dublin Airport today. There's images of him on social media sitting on the grass in full uniform holding a piece of paper stating he's on hunger, water and silent strike, apparently over pay and conditions. Whatever his reasoning or state of health, I'd worry about his wellbeing sitting in the heat all day and he already appears very sunburnt.

https://twitter.com/Sarahoneill1234/status/1011685657796927490

Disgruntled employee? Genuinely unhappy with progress for crew? Whatever the reason I hope he's home by now.

CoisFharraige · 27-06-2018 1:49pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

Disgruntled employee? Genuinely unhappy with progress for crew? Whatever the reason I hope he's home by now.

Do you know anything about their working conditions? It sounds like you're belittling him by the tone I'm getting, if not I apologise. Fair play to him.

kevinandrew · 27-06-2018 2:17pm

CoisFharraige wrote: »

kevinandrew wrote: »

Disgruntled employee? Genuinely unhappy with progress for crew? Whatever the reason I hope he's home by now.

Do you know anything about their working conditions? It sounds like you're belittling him by the tone I'm getting, if not I apologise. Fair play to him.

Not my intention at all. I was genuinely worried, everyone who spoke to him said he was sound but you can never know in these situations.

As for my knowledge of conditions at Ryanair... a year as cabin crew with them was enough for me!

Bob24 · 27-06-2018 2:27pm

kevinandrew wrote: »

Not my intention at all. I was genuinely worried, everyone who spoke to him said he was sound but you can never know in these situations.

I’m actually genuinely wondering what is motivation is for doing this.

It is clear that on his own he won’t have much impact. Is he hoping the plublicity will encourage his colleagues and trigger a larger protest? Has he decided to leave the company anyway and is he doing this for the laugh? Or something else?

I’m really curious ...

CoisFharraige · 28-06-2018 12:07am

https://prnt.sc/k069em

Printed pages he has (he's still there as of 2300) with the requests he has proposed - more or less the CBA that is being pushed in the whole company by CC.

Padraig Mor · 03-07-2018 3:34pm

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it's on the 12th - as myself and family are flying on the 11th.

theteal · 03-07-2018 3:42pm

So is it safe to assume that this strike is for the 24 hours of Thursday the 12th? Friday the 13th is flights as normal?

Another selfish view, I could well be spending that weekend in Edinburgh on my own otherwise

Mr rebel · 03-07-2018 3:45pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

From a purely selfish point of view, I'm breathing a sigh of relief that it's on the 12th - as myself and family are flying on the 11th.

Lucky you.
I am supposed to be flying with them to Berlin on the 12th....obviously won't be happening now. I hope I will at least get a refund for the flight

Ryanair Strike implications re Cancellations NO INDUSTRIAL RELATIONS POSTS

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