Waterford - Rosslare Greenway

nigra · 24-09-2020 12:39am

It seems that the line is attracting some long overdue debate#

https://my.uplift.ie/petitions/reinstate-south-east-rail-network

Coming at it from a purely environmental angle, lifting trainlines to one of the busiest ports in the state doesn't exactly indicate that the 'climate emergency' we declared was anything more than virtue signalling.

purplepanda · 24-09-2020 9:05am

Irish hauliers and exporters have said an alternative route to Europe must be found to avoid potentially massive queues at British ports from the beginning of January.

Just build a Greenway instead that'll sort it!

Meanwhile in the real world. :pac:

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0923/1166880-no-deal-brexit-v-coronavirus/

L1011 · 24-09-2020 9:11am

Rosslare is a roro port, rail freight is of no use to it.

loyatemu · 24-09-2020 9:15am

nigra wrote: »

Coming at it from a purely environmental angle, lifting trainlines to one of the busiest ports in the state doesn't exactly indicate that the 'climate emergency' we declared was anything more than virtue signalling.

there's no rail freight going to the port on the existing line.
There are also bugger all foot passengers on the ferry.
If you did want to move freight through a port by rail, you'd use Dublin or Waterford which are already setup for that.

If you want to use Rosslare port as justification for reopening the line, you're also talking about completely reorganising the way that freight logistics work in Ireland.

I told ya · 24-09-2020 9:41am

loyatemu wrote: »

there's no rail freight going to the port on the existing line.
There are also bugger all foot passengers on the ferry.
If you did want to move freight through a port by rail, you'd use Dublin or Waterford which are already setup for that.

If you want to use Rosslare port as justification for reopening the line, you're also talking about completely reorganising the way that freight logistics work in Ireland.

With the way Brexit is going, then that is what may well have to happen. A lot of posters on Brexit threads have stated that this is already happening.

Per the UK gov there could be 7k trucks backed up in Kent. Do you think the UK drivers will let the Irish trucks sail (pun) past on and off the ferries?

This piece of infrastructure has to be retained until we know exactly what the outcome is going to be and how we are going to import & export in the future.

Given this UK gov's respect for treaties and their general carry on, that could be a long time.

Isambard · 24-09-2020 11:37am

I told ya wrote: »

With the way Brexit is going, then that is what may well have to happen. A lot of posters on Brexit threads have stated that this is already happening.

Per the UK gov there could be 7k trucks backed up in Kent. Do you think the UK drivers will let the Irish trucks sail (pun) past on and off the ferries?

This piece of infrastructure has to be retained until we know exactly what the outcome is going to be and how we are going to import & export in the future.

Given this UK gov's respect for treaties and their general carry on, that could be a long time.

how will that put traffic on to rail though? Post Brexit, there may well be more ferries direct to mainland Europe, but that won't affect the rail system. The trucks will just go a different route.

loyatemu · 24-09-2020 11:42am

Brexit or no Brexit the chances of Rosslare Port being re-tooled as a freight railhead are practically nil. I know how ironic this is given who owns the port but that doesn't make it any more likely. Of all the arguments for reopening the South Wexford it's the weakest. The (also remote) prospect of rail-sail becoming a big thing again is probably more likely.

I told ya · 24-09-2020 11:58am

I don't know whether Rosslare will be retooled or whether freight will reappear on the line.

That's not my point. My point is keep the line until we are 100% certain. At the moment there is no clarity on Brexit. Also, have all Irish importers/exporters finalised their arrangements post 31/12/20? Until they do, it's better to have it than to want it.

The cost of maintaining the line and bridge is small change.

IE 222 · 24-09-2020 12:31pm

I think Rosslare would need to see Dublin port closing if it was to ever gain rail freight. Even then it would probably be easier to just keep it RO/RO and shift LO/LO to Cork and Waterford.

Del.Monte · 24-09-2020 1:44pm

In the real world - not the fantasy one of burning up the planet by returning to cheap mass air travel - foot passenger traffic will have to return if Ireland is to attract visitors from the Continent and Britain. I have thought for years that mass tourism is completely unsustainable anyway but that's for a different forum.

Isambard · 24-09-2020 2:45pm

there's two routes by road to Rosslare basically, past Dublin Port and past Waterford and it's port. Why would anyone send a train to Rosslare rather than one or other of the other two?

Del.Monte · 24-09-2020 2:54pm

Isambard wrote: »

there's two routes by road to Rosslare basically, past Dublin Port and past Waterford and it's port. Why would anyone send a train to Rosslare rather than one or other of the other two?

Theoretically because it's closer to Europe?

Bonkey_Donker · 24-09-2020 4:02pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Theoretically because it's closer to Europe?

Europe I am not so sure about. If you go through the Irish Sea you go past Dublin. And Waterford and/or Cork are closer or as close if you go down around the Uk.

Isambard · 24-09-2020 4:49pm

Del.Monte wrote: »

Theoretically because it's closer to Europe?

even if that was the case, there is no case for passing one port to get to another .

IE 222 · 24-09-2020 4:55pm

Isambard wrote: »

even if that was the case, there is no case for passing one port to get to another .

Happens every day. Not every port offers the same routes

IE 222 · 24-09-2020 5:32pm

Bonkey_Donker wrote: »

Europe I am not so sure about. If you go through the Irish Sea you go past Dublin. And Waterford and/or Cork are closer or as close if you go down around the Uk.

Wouldn't be going past Dublin from Rosslare. The UK land bridge effectively could make Rosslare are better option than Dublin - Holyhead & land bridge.

Isambard · 24-09-2020 8:32pm

you would by train..... either through Dublin or Waterford.

7000 trucks in Kent truck park might spoil the old UK landbridge idea.

IE 222 · 24-09-2020 11:12pm

Isambard wrote: »

you would by train..... either through Dublin or Waterford.

7000 trucks in Kent truck park might spoil the old UK landbridge idea.

A ship from Rosslare to UK or EU will past Dublin???

If queues, delays and excessive checks become the norm at UK ports the land bridge is a dead duck.

L1011 · 24-09-2020 11:50pm

Losing the UK Landbridge will only make a difference to roro traffic - which does not use rail. Containers already bypass the UK; and Rosslare doesn't even handle them.

There is no light on the horizon here for using a no-deal Brexit to restore the South Wexford line.

A deepening climate crisis and a move to land based tourism to the South West is more likely to bring back Cork-Swansea ferries than passenger services on the South Wexford either. If there had (ever) been a direct Cork line the entire thing would have been, and remained, more viable but that isn't what we have.

dowlingm · 25-09-2020 4:14am

Did Rosslare Harbour *ever* move railFreight of any sort even in the uttermost heyday of CIE freight activities? Kegs, livestock, anything? In my lifetime I think it has only operated passenger.

Isambard · 25-09-2020 8:26am

livestock galore. Probably not a lot else. Guinness was brewed in West London in those days, so not kegs. Everything used to arrive/depart by train of course up to the sixties or thereabouts. Everything.

L1011 · 25-09-2020 11:56am

Guinness Park Royal couldn't supply the entirety of GB, Dublin supplies roughly from Leeds north. But I'd suspect it all went from Dublin

91wx763 · 27-09-2020 11:31am

L1011 wrote: »

Guinness Park Royal couldn't supply the entirety of GB, Dublin supplies roughly from Leeds north. But I'd suspect it all went from Dublin

Park Royal brewery has been loads of yuppy flats for years. All beer is now made in Dublin.
I think you meant "Dublin supplied roughly from Leeds north".

L1011 · 27-09-2020 11:46am

Yes, typo

Del.Monte · 11-02-2021 2:08pm

Latest news from South East On Track: https://southeastontrack.com/business-case

loyatemu · 12-02-2021 4:22pm

that's a very well written document, I've no idea if the figures suggested are in any way realistic, but they've done a good professional job on the study.

nigra · 31-05-2021 5:33pm

Whats going on with this trainline at the moment? I had thought that it was curtains for the line and all maintenance was to stop earlier this year with the bridge position being fixed .
Then i was surprised (and glad!) to see online that the weedsprayer train was on it today. Has something changed?

Losty Dublin · 31-05-2021 6:57pm

nigra wrote: »

Whats going on with this trainline at the moment? I had thought that it was curtains for the line and all maintenance was to stop earlier this year with the bridge position being fixed .
Then i was surprised (and glad!) to see online that the weedsprayer train was on it today. Has something changed?

No change here. The line was inspected and weed sprayed this week, as per Irish Rails obligations to the organs of State.

man98 · 31-05-2021 7:28pm

Losty Dublin wrote: »

No change here. The line was inspected and weed sprayed this week, as per Irish Rails obligations to the organs of State.

Irish Rail have no obligation under the new NTA agreement to weedspray, only to provide basic maintenance. I believe Southeast on Track lobbied Eamon Ryan and he agreed to ask Irish Rail to spray the line while the Strategic Rail Review is ongoing.

Wexford County Council have also paused development of the greenway plan and are growing increasingly annoyed at Waterford's lack of willingness to co-operate on this new greenway plan. My own opinion is that this argument is about to go on much longer, and a greenway alongside the Wexford - Rosslare Strand section of track, which will not impede on views or private property, will be agreed upon and built in the meantime.

tabbey · 02-06-2021 4:06pm

man98 wrote: »

. My own opinion is that this argument is about to go on much longer, and a greenway alongside the Wexford - Rosslare Strand section of track.

Do you mean Kilmokea (Barrow bridge)- Rosslare? Or is there a proposal for a greenway alongside the still operating railway?
Or indeed a greenway on a route away from the railway?

blackwhite · 02-06-2021 4:17pm

man98 wrote: »

Irish Rail have no obligation under the new NTA agreement to weedspray, only to provide basic maintenance. I believe Southeast on Track lobbied Eamon Ryan and he agreed to ask Irish Rail to spray the line while the Strategic Rail Review is ongoing.

Wexford County Council have also paused development of the greenway plan and are growing increasingly annoyed at Waterford's lack of willingness to co-operate on this new greenway plan. My own opinion is that this argument is about to go on much longer, and a greenway alongside the Wexford - Rosslare Strand section of track, which will not impede on views or private property, will be agreed upon and built in the meantime.

How is Waterford CC capable of being a hold-up on this one?

There's approximately 100 metres of the proposed route in County Waterford, maybe 10-15km (at very most) in Co. Kilkenny and the remainder in Co. Wexford

man98 · 03-06-2021 6:23pm

tabbey wrote: »

Do you mean Kilmokea (Barrow bridge)- Rosslare? Or is there a proposal for a greenway alongside the still operating railway?
Or indeed a greenway on a route away from the railway?

No I mean from Wexford Town to Rosslare Strand, which is a separate Greenway plan which isn't supposed to affect the running of the operational railway, this is at preliminary stages now.

blackwhite wrote: »

How is Waterford CC capable of being a hold-up on this one?

There's approximately 100 metres of the proposed route in County Waterford, maybe 10-15km (at very most) in Co. Kilkenny and the remainder in Co. Wexford

I don't get why they're blaming Waterford either, aside from Waterford's development plan I believe calling for the reopening of the railway, and regardless I don't think the plan is for the greenway to go beyond Belview, as that part is still in use. It sounds like excuse making exercise as the will to tear up the track dies down - unless they were hoping for funding. Kilkenny will have their Greenway to New Ross, and won't be too pushed about the prospect of a second one.

Waterford - Rosslare Greenway

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