Pre marriage course

ec18 · 21-06-2021 2:11pm

Celeste Shapely Rake wrote: »

You don't "have" to have children but have to be "open" to it. So for instance you can be infertile and still be "open" to life and can be validly married.

As for choosing not to for "ethical reasons" this really depends and you would probably need a canon lawyer to make a call on that. But I would imagine that if there is an express intent to never conceive on the part of both parties then the marriage would not be valid. If someone cannot conceive that is different, and the marriage would be valid.

If someone is impotent for some reasonand cannot physically have vaginal intercourse they cannot be validly married (although obviously if this disability happens afterwards that does not invalidate the marriage).

It's also worth remembering that under church teaching there is no contraception so the idea of choosing not to have children doesn't exist for CC. I.e in their words 'God' gifts them to you or he doesn't but you don't interfere by using contraception.

You would be legally married under those conditions but the church may not recognise it but the state would. (again might not matter to some)

(disclaimer: I'm not actually religious just pointing out the churchs position on it.)

21-06-2021 2:36pm

ec18 wrote: »

It's also worth remembering that under church teaching there is no contraception so the idea of choosing not to have children doesn't exist for CC. I.e in their words 'God' gifts them to you or he doesn't but you don't interfere by using contraception.

You would be legally married under those conditions but the church may not recognise it but the state would. (again might not matter to some)

(disclaimer: I'm not actually religious just pointing out the churchs position on it.)

Not a canon lawyer, but I'm fairly sure you could express a preference not to have a child, use natural birth control and it would be valid as you would still be "open to life" even if it is not exactly something you expressly desire. So being "open" is not the same as "really wanting". So if the attitude is "we don't really want children but sure if it happens we will have and raise the child and make the best of it" then this is ok as there is "openness".

So usually there was some wriggle room here. But in recent times there are more people who are completely "closed" to the idea. If they were of this mindset when getting married, their marriage is not valid in the eyes of the church.

(I hope I'm not boring people, I find this stuff interesting).

ec18 · 21-06-2021 2:40pm

Celeste Shapely Rake wrote: »

Not a canon lawyer, but I'm fairly sure you could express a preference not to have a child, use natural birth control and it would be valid as you would still be "open to life" even if it is not exactly something you expressly desire. So being "open" is not the same as "really wanting". So if the attitude is "we don't really want children but sure if it happens we will have and raise the child and make the best of it" then this is ok as there is "openness".

So usually there was some wriggle room here. But in recent times there are more people who are completely "closed" to the idea. If they were of this mindset when getting married, their marriage is not valid in the eyes of the church.

(I hope I'm not boring people, I find this stuff interesting).

Different priests will also have different interpretations of it, ours for example was very picky about the music and what in/out of communion was (I never quite got what he was on about) depending on the 'holiness' of the priest in question could be more or less strict on the interpretation

eviltwin · 23-06-2021 4:03pm

I'd imagine a fair chunk of the Catholic weddings that take place in Ireland are not valid then for various reasons. I think its mad but its the rules and there are other options if you don't qualify for a Catholic wedding. I can't understand why someone who choses not to live as a Catholic would want one anyway

qwerty13 · 24-06-2021 5:35am

eviltwin wrote: »

I'd imagine a fair chunk of the Catholic weddings that take place in Ireland are not valid then for various reasons. I think its mad but its the rules and there are other options if you don't qualify for a Catholic wedding. I can't understand why someone who choses not to live as a Catholic would want one anyway

Agreed. I disagree with almost all of their rules, which is why I don’t play their game. But I do have to acknowledge that it is ‘their club, their rules’. If people don’t like it, then don’t get get married in a church. (Not to mention the ‘day out’ for communions.)

NIMAN · 24-06-2021 5:45am

Are the church still running this scam?

Mrs OBumble · 27-06-2021 11:57pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Are the church still running this scam?

Weddings? Yes, the church is still offering them.

Pre marriage course

Comments