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Pre marriage course

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  • 22-04-2021 10:02pm
    #1
    flandabieduzie
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭


    How easy are these to come by or have I any hope of getting one to have a church wedding this side of winter?


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    #2
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    They are online now so yes, it's possible - and because they are online you can search outside of where you live to join one. Plus it's a 5 hr Zoom course rather than 10 hrs in person so there's that...

    Have you looked on the website for dates around the country? You can do it as early as you like.


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    #3
    flandabieduzie
    Registered Users Posts: 145 ✭✭flandabieduzie


    Neyite wrote: »
    They are online now so yes, it's possible - and because they are online you can search outside of where you live to join one. Plus it's a 5 hr Zoom course rather than 10 hrs in person so there's that...

    Have you looked on the website for dates around the country? You can do it as early as you like.

    Tried accord but they seem all booked up until August.

    Am looking at Avalon currently. Going to search for testimonials online.

    Does anyone know if their certificates are accepted by priests?


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    #4
    oconnot5
    Registered Users Posts: 56 ✭✭oconnot5


    flandabieduzie wrote: »
    Tried accord but they seem all booked up until August.

    Am looking at Avalon currently. Going to search for testimonials online.

    Does anyone know if their certificates are accepted by priests?

    Wexford only accepted Accord. Thats strange nothing till August. I booked in Feb for course a month later the start of March. April was booked out then with some available in late May though. I checked every location.


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    #5
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    flandabieduzie wrote: »
    Tried accord but they seem all booked up until August.

    Am looking at Avalon currently. Going to search for testimonials online.

    Does anyone know if their certificates are accepted by priests?

    Depends on the priest/diocese. Ours said that the Avalon course (which was always online and shorter and cheaper) was a 'cop out' and 'box ticking'.

    So we had to book with Accord. Which they subsequently cancelled due to the lockdown, meaning we missed our wedding date and then restarted wholly online. Totally not a cop out or box ticking I'm sure. :rolleyes:

    My sarcasm may stem from the fact that the cost of the course last year was €180 to attend for 3 hrs on a friday night and all day on Saturday (lunch & refreshments included) but the price for the 5hr Zoom Saturday without food is...€180.


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    #6
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Neyite wrote: »

    My sarcasm may stem from the fact that the cost of the course last year was €180 to attend for 3 hrs on a friday night and all day on Saturday (lunch & refreshments included) but the price for the 5hr Zoom Saturday without food is...€180.
    I suppose that's the price you pay when you want a catholic wedding.



    OP should the priest marrying you not be able to give you this information?


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    #7
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    lazygal wrote: »
    I suppose that's the price you pay when you want a catholic wedding.

    You do this on every catholic /wedding thread, lol.

    So even though I've politely replied to you a couple of times before when you've commented on my catholic wedding, I'll say it again:

    I'll suck it up for my partner who wants a catholic wedding. As is his right and he doesn't have to explain his faith to you. Or even me. It's enough that he wants to marry in the church and I respect his beliefs because I'm not an intolerant person

    Marriage registration in the UK costs £46GBP. In Ireland the HSE charges us €200.
    In the UK the cost of the RCC marriage course is £60GBP. Here it is €180.

    I reserve the right to dislike venues and vendors artificially inflating the costs of a service for a wedding, just because it's for a wedding - including the state and the church. While I can afford this, there are many couples who can't afford that kind of money and who are also equally deserving of the legal protections of marriage that you have. If they have a religious faith, then they are also deserving of the right to marry within that faith and while I understand the marriage course to be an important part of the requirement for a RCC wedding, I don't have to like the price they charge for it and I have every right to believe that may act as a financial impediment to people of faith that want and deserve the legal and religious status of marriage.


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    #8
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    I'm sure the church would cover the cost for those couples who financially can't afford the course.

    And similarly the state provides exceptional needs payments in the event a couple can't afford the cost of the HSE ceremony.


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    #9
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Just out of interest what kind of things are covered on a pre marriage course?

    Is it all about the importance of God in your marriage and is there an assumption you will have children and all that or is it stuff that you will actually use?

    I don't have a problem with the concept in theory but think it would be very frustrating to have to pay to sit through something that you don't really need.


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    #10
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    Neyite wrote: »
    Marriage registration in the UK costs £46GBP. In Ireland the HSE charges us €200.
    In the UK the cost of the RCC marriage course is £60GBP. Here it is €180.

    Now that we can travel up to 20km into a neighbouring county, I wonder if there are courses in Down, Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
    Get married there too, be able to have an actual wedding and a party afterwards......


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    #11
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Just out of interest what kind of things are covered on a pre marriage course?

    Is it all about the importance of God in your marriage and is there an assumption you will have children and all that or is it stuff that you will actually use?

    I don't have a problem with the concept in theory but think it would be very frustrating to have to pay to sit through something that you don't really need.
    https://www.accord.ie/services/marriage-preparation/course-content


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    #12
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lazygal wrote: »
    https://www.accord.ie/services/marriage-preparation/course-content

    God that is mortifying :o


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    #13
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Just out of interest what kind of things are covered on a pre marriage course?

    Is it all about the importance of God in your marriage and is there an assumption you will have children and all that or is it stuff that you will actually use?

    I don't have a problem with the concept in theory but think it would be very frustrating to have to pay to sit through something that you don't really need.

    Not really sure but a lot of that, plus financial stuff. A friend mentioned that there's a long Q&A at the end for couples - one of the questions she remembers was "would you get annoyed if he was talking to a woman in a pub"

    I think it's has plenty of relevance for observant catholics who don't co-habit beforehand though.


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    #14
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    God that is mortifying :o
    And state funded, believe it or not.

    https://www.accord.ie/about/support-funding


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    #15
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    Neyite wrote: »
    Not really sure but a lot of that, plus financial stuff. A friend mentioned that there's a long Q&A at the end for couples - one of the questions she remembers was "would you get annoyed if he was talking to a woman in a pub"

    I think it's has plenty of relevance for observant catholics who don't co-habit beforehand though.

    I can see the logic if you are a couple who has never lived together but how many people realistically does that cover?

    Looking at the content I would see it as an insult to my intelligence to have to sit through that. I know its the price you pay for a church wedding and has to be done but it must be weird set up for the people giving the course to be talking to couples as though they have never lived together before or haven't already discussed this stuff.


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    #16
    Nekarsulm
    Registered Users Posts: 11,194 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Just out of interest what kind of things are covered on a pre marriage course?

    Is it all about the importance of God in your marriage and is there an assumption you will have children and all that or is it stuff that you will actually use?

    I don't have a problem with the concept in theory but think it would be very frustrating to have to pay to sit through something that you don't really need.

    Bit about budgeting, the importance of making a will, resolution of discord, shared goals, working together...
    On this last point we were instructed to join our right hands and, gripping a biro, draw the picture of our ideal house.
    I took charge and drew a rectangle about 3 inches high by an inch and a half wide.
    There was some resistance from my wife-to-be.
    What's wrong? I whispered.
    It's very small, she replied.
    I'm drawing the front door ! I answered :D
    Honestly, that's all I can remember.
    It was the day of the Grand National, and the blokes running it cut off sharply at lunch, so they had time to hit the bookies and have lunch.....


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    #17
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    lazygal wrote: »
    I'm sure the church would cover the cost for those couples who financially can't afford the course.

    And similarly the state provides exceptional needs payments in the event a couple can't afford the cost of the HSE ceremony.

    Why should anyone have to disclose their private financial status in order to access their legal (and religious ) right to marry?

    Why not just have the cost of these mandatory requirements set at a reasonably accessible cost for everyone?

    From what I can remember, you are not a fan of the RCC nor a member so how are you sure the RCC would pay Accord €180 on behalf of a couple? and if you do have a link to where they say they will, what does a couple need to provide to the diocese /Accord to get the fee waived?


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    #18
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Neyite wrote: »
    Why should anyone have to disclose their private financial status in order to access their legal (and religious ) right to marry?

    Why not just have the cost of these mandatory requirements set at a reasonably accessible cost for everyone?

    From what I can remember, you are not a fan of the RCC nor a member so how are you sure the RCC would pay Accord €180 on behalf of a couple? and if you do have a link to where they say they will, what does a couple need to provide to the diocese /Accord to get the fee waived?
    If they're a decent catholic organisation getting money from the state, surely they wouldn't want a couple to be tempted by sin because they couldn't get married because they couldn't afford a course? Maybe I have a higher opinion of them than you do. You're the one using their services, and complaining about the cost, because you want a particular wedding, not me!


    The only cost to get married is €200 in Ireland. Yes, it is cheaper elsewhere but that's irrelevant for an Irish marriage service.


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    #19
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lazygal wrote: »
    If they're a decent catholic organisation getting money from the state, surely they wouldn't want a couple to be tempted by sin because they couldn't get married because they couldn't afford a course? Maybe I have a higher opinion of them than you do. You're the one using their services, and complaining about the cost, because you want a particular wedding, not me!


    The only cost to get married is €200 in Ireland. Yes, it is cheaper elsewhere but that's irrelevant for an Irish marriage service.

    They could just scrap the requirement altogether and save everyone the bother.....


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    #20
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    eviltwin wrote: »
    They could just scrap the requirement altogether and save everyone the bother.....
    Their club, their rules. I suppose you can't blame them for wanting people who want a catholic wedding to sit through some level of catholic marriage stuff before having the big day out.


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    #21
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    eviltwin wrote: »
    I can see the logic if you are a couple who has never lived together but how many people realistically does that cover?

    Looking at the content I would see it as an insult to my intelligence to have to sit through that. I know its the price you pay for a church wedding and has to be done but it must be weird set up for the people giving the course to be talking to couples as though they have never lived together before or haven't already discussed this stuff.

    It's partly that, like you say, we've been together 17 years so a lot of that we've figured it out ourselves, but it's also the intrusiveness of it all - answering questions about our relationship, our feelings in a group setting with other couples on that Zoom course? That's also a very uncomfortable prospect.


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    #22
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Neyite wrote: »
    It's partly that, like you say, we've been together 17 years so a lot of that we've figured it out ourselves, but it's also the intrusiveness of it all - answering questions about our relationship, our feelings in a group setting with other couples on that Zoom course? That's also a very uncomfortable prospect.
    I would imagine it is. And not particularly useful for couples like yourselves. Would your partner not ask if this requirement can be dropped so as to respect your feelings about it?


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    #23
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    lazygal wrote: »
    If they're a decent catholic organisation getting money from the state, surely they wouldn't want a couple to be tempted by sin because they couldn't get married because they couldn't afford a course? Maybe I have a higher opinion of them than you do. You're the one using their services, and complaining about the cost, because you want a particular wedding, not me!

    The only cost to get married is €200 in Ireland. Yes, it is cheaper elsewhere but that's irrelevant for an Irish marriage service.

    You are the one who said you were sure that the HSE and RCC would waive those fees for marrying couples who can't afford it, so please provide a link to where you saw that information.


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    #24
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    lazygal wrote: »
    I would imagine it is. And not particularly useful for couples like yourselves. Would your partner not ask if this requirement can be dropped so as to respect your feelings about it?

    It's mandatory.


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    #25
    lazygal
    Registered Users Posts: 12,644 ✭✭✭✭lazygal


    Neyite wrote: »
    You are the one who said you were sure that the HSE and RCC would waive those fees for marrying couples who can't afford it, so please provide a link to where you saw that information.


    You seem bizarrely annoyed by and invested in my comments.



    You can afford it, and as I said I am sure there are supports for those who can't. Like exceptional needs payments. And surely a catholic priest wouldn't refuse to marry a couple because they couldn't afford an Accord course?


    Maybe I live in a totally different world, where unless you can pony up the cash priests won't do a catholic ceremony for you.


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    #26
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,710 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Neyite wrote: »
    Why should anyone have to disclose their private financial status in order to access their legal (and religious ) right to marry?

    If the state made a full and frank disclose of your financial status *to your spouse-to-be* a condition of marriage, the world would be a far better place.

    You would be surprised how many couples, including those who have lived together, have not properly explored some of these basic relational questions before presenting themselves for marriage.


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    #27
    Faith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,655 Mod ✭✭✭✭Faith


    lazygal wrote: »
    If they're a decent catholic organisation getting money from the state, surely they wouldn't want a couple to be tempted by sin because they couldn't get married because they couldn't afford a course? Maybe I have a higher opinion of them than you do. You're the one using their services, and complaining about the cost, because you want a particular wedding, not me!


    The only cost to get married is €200 in Ireland. Yes, it is cheaper elsewhere but that's irrelevant for an Irish marriage service.

    Mod Note: Lazygal, this forum doesn't exist for people to be challenged and belittled about their choices regarding their weddings. You never miss an opportunity to parrot that "Getting married only has to cost €200", and you frequently belittle people who choose to have a Catholic ceremony. Just because people don't do things the way you think they should doesn't give you the right to be condescending about their choices.

    Don't post on this thread again, and I'd strongly advise having a think about how your posts come across to others in the event that you're genuinely unaware of how unkind and/or critical they can often be.


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    #28
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    lazygal wrote: »
    You seem bizarrely annoyed by and invested in my comments.



    You can afford it, and as I said I am sure there are supports for those who can't. Like exceptional needs payments. And surely a catholic priest wouldn't refuse to marry a couple because they couldn't afford an Accord course?


    Maybe I live in a totally different world, where unless you can pony up the cash priests won't do a catholic ceremony for you.

    To be fair to the RCC :eek: a pre-marriage course is going to be an investment in the marriage which is the most important part after all. Yes, 200 quid is a lot of money but I'd be a bit dismissive of someone putting on the poor mouth when spending a huge amount on a wedding.


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    #29
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    If the people are practicing catholics and know their priest, and the wedding is to be in the local church, it is not unheard of for the requirement for the course to be waived.

    If it sincerely cannot be afforded, it will be paid for (however this is almost never the case, as many multiples of the fee generally get spent on a wedding).


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    #30
    Pen Rua
    Registered Users Posts: 1,966 ✭✭✭Pen Rua


    My wife & I did the Accord course just before COVID hit. We found the course okay, but came away feeling it was a little light on actual Catholicism. There's a whole depth of theology, philosophy and tradition in the Sacrament. I fed this back to Accord, and have since met with the facilitator a handful of times to talk about the courses.

    The cost was hard to swallow, but in the grand scheme of things for a "normal" wedding (as we had planned pre-COVID) it was a drop in the ocean. And for us, we didn't mind supporting a Catholic organisation.

    From what I recall, we did a pre-nuptial enquiry form with the parish priest of where we reside. This happened to be a different priest than the one who did our wedding, and we live in a different county altogether than where we got married. He did not ask to see our cert, and just took us at our word that we did the course. Each diocese would have its own accepted pre-marriage courses. From what I recall, Avalon was accepted in a handful of dioceses. The priest that married us, who knows us well, still urged us to do the Accord course.

    We supplemented the Accord course with some other (American) pre-marriage courses which we found somewhat valuable.

    For us, the best marriage prep we had was talking to other young, Catholic married couples and hearing from then. Second to that was planning a wedding during COVID.


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    #31
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    eviltwin wrote: »
    To be fair to the RCC :eek: a pre-marriage course is going to be an investment in the marriage which is the most important part after all. Yes, 200 quid is a lot of money but I'd be a bit dismissive of someone putting on the poor mouth when spending a huge amount on a wedding.

    That's the general perception isn't it -people spend a huge amount on weddings anyway so screw em, they have no right to question the cost of the mandatory costs. :(

    Not everyone spends a huge amount on a wedding. We aren't, though we probably could if we wanted to. I've paid the course fee already, two months ago, so there was never an intention to get out of paying it on my part. I'm even fine with listening to RCC themed presentations for couples. But yeah, being asked intimate questions about our relationship in front of other couples is not something to look forward to either.

    Like I've said, we can afford it, but I do remember being absolutely broke when we first got engaged and there's no way that I'd be giving our dire financial information to the parish secretary that went to school with my OH and who is a known gossip which is what you'd have to do in order to get the fee waived.


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