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Seller unwilling to negotiate

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    #62
    Aka Ishur
    Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    I think folks are here are crazy or have never bought or sold a place in their lives. First place I bought for 12% below asking and second place was on at 310, we started at 220 and finished at 280. Would have finished at 262 if their agent did things right.

    The estate agents will estimate a bigger band than 10% so giving out to a fella for starting 10% below asking is off the wall.


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    #63
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,063 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    If you want the house, and there's no other like it, pay the asking.

    If it's only ok, move on and pick something else.


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    #64
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    [Deleted User] wrote: »

    You would, yeah. :rolleyes:

    Considering I’ll be getting carried out of my house in either a box or a stretcher (big f-off lotto/euromillions win notwithstanding) I would tell them to do one.

    Then again, I’ll be dead, so it won’t really matter to me.

    And if I win the lotto then I’d sell to underbidder just to piss you off. ::D:


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    #65
    Cyrus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,707 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    Gael23 wrote: »
    I’m reluctant to give too many details so as not to identify myself or the property.

    They aren’t upgrading, they are relocating to be nearer family so they will be downgrading if anything. Surprised it’s a sellers market, banks are difficult about giving out mortgages with Covid so would have thought someone not needing one would have the upper hand,

    You have misjudged the market at the moment , there’s no deals , supply is very low .

    Do you want a bargain or a home ?

    If it’s genuinely over priced then walk away , if it’s fairly priced but you want a deal because Covid ? Then you have a decision to make .


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    #66
    i57dwun4yb1pt8
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,655 ✭✭✭i57dwun4yb1pt8


    blow them ?

    else stump up

    9 of 10 ive seen on the market in dublin are selling over the asking , bar some wrecks.


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    #67
    rom
    Registered Users Posts: 5,135 ✭✭✭rom


    mfceiling wrote: »
    Are you buying it on adverts?

    Spot on. Next step is to talk about sad backstory on yourself (or your child even better) needs a break etc. as all they need is their house to be the light the end of the tunnel. Thanks for the laugh OP


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    #68
    893bet
    Registered Users Posts: 8,767 ✭✭✭893bet


    There is often an Irish mindset that “I should get something off the asking price........similar that there is often the mindset “I need to add something on to take it off”. Grand when seller/buyer have the same mindset.

    In this case it seems the buyer has that mindset and seller doesn’t.


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    #69
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    Strange question OP, nothing you can do. They don't have to sell. Up your bid, wait it out or walk away.

    Also, to me, 10% below asking is standard opening offer tbh - people are weird taking offence to a business transaction. It may be a misplaced tactic in certain markets but if the OP is the only bidder, have at it.


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    #70
    virginmediapls
    Registered Users Posts: 325 ✭✭virginmediapls


    Victor wrote: »
    So what? What makes you think the asking price is correct?

    It doesnt matter. It's the price the seller is asking for that matters as is exemplified by this post smart alec.


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    #71
    KevRossi
    Registered Users Posts: 4,402 ✭✭✭KevRossi


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    I think folks are here are crazy or have never bought or sold a place in their lives. First place I bought for 12% below asking and second place was on at 310, we started at 220 and finished at 280. Would have finished at 262 if their agent did things right.

    The estate agents will estimate a bigger band than 10% so giving out to a fella for starting 10% below asking is off the wall.

    Was this during the recession? If it was, then it's hardly relevant to 2021. Different market forces at work now.

    If it wasn't then you've a vocation as a professional buyer/haggler for house buyers.


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    #72
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,278 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    1. Is there anything that is excluded from the sale that might encourage you to bid more if it was included, e.g. appliances, fitted kitchen, furniture, soft furnishings?

    2. After a few few weeks of silence, have a friend bid €290,000.


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    #73
    johnnyskeleton
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 14,478 Mod ✭✭✭✭johnnyskeleton


    KevRossi wrote: »
    Was this during the recession? If it was, then it's hardly relevant to 2021. Different market forces at work now.

    The exact same market forces are at work. Aggregate demand and relevant supply dictate market prices.

    The "this time its different" mindset is very 2006, as is the aggressive assertions that the market is on the way up. Its been dropping slightly since late 2018, with an unexpected increase in the last 6 months of last year leading to a sort of mania in asking prices.

    OP, a different perspective on all this is that supply is low at the moment because we are still in lockdown level 5 and the impact of covid and brexit havent really been felt due to government subsidies. Whether prices will go up, down or stay the same I cant tell you, but I can say that people believe that they should achieve high selling prices.


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    #74
    A2LUE42
    Registered Users Posts: 2,533 ✭✭✭A2LUE42


    Have bought and sold houses over the years and they have been from 10% under the asking price to 35% over. As someone has said already, some agents undervalue to create interest and get the price up with more interest and bidders, some agents overvalue to try and get a sale price as close to it as possible.

    But the key thing is always that a house is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.
    If they want 350K and no one pays it for a considerable time, they will drop the price or wait for the market to increase to what they want. It may never sell or it could sell for less or more, without knowing their mindset and situation it is anyone's guess.

    All you can control is what you do. If you are OK to pay the 330-340 and believe it is a fair price, then offer 330-340 and see if they will come down, if they won't, the ball is in your court.
    Someone else could enter the equation and get it for close to asking or could drive the price over. Also possible that if they have multiple offers 20K below asking with no one willing to go higher they might realise it is overvalued and accept a lower price.

    But in summary, offer what you are ok with. If you really want it and there are no reasonable alternatives, you may have to pay that.

    But some sellers are also just messers. I've offered asking prices, only to then have them take the house off the market with a view to relisting in 6-8 months. Or others who have the house for sale, but have no intention of ever selling.


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    #75
    mgbgt1978
    Registered Users Posts: 4,230 ✭✭✭mgbgt1978


    shenanagans wrote: »
    You don't pay tax on your home when selling. A cash offer is no benefit in regards tax. Only benefit is that the whole process is generally faster to complete.

    If the owner lives in the property ....the cash offer probably isn't an incentive. If they hoping to upgrade then they probably want to get as much as possible for the property.
    No offense, but I think you might be misunderstanding the "Cash offer" reference here.
    The OP appears to be simply telling the Seller that there is no chain involved, and he is ready to purchase the house now.
    He is not trying to make this an 'under the table' deal.....just that he has access to the funds to go ahead with the purchase.


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    #76
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,905 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    Feisar wrote: »
    Yea I don't get this cash thing. I don't think the bank are sending the people I bought the house of monthly installments. Does it mean they are ready to go or something?

    Means they're funding it themselves with savings ie not having to get a mortgage. Cash sales are generally quicker because there's a lot that can cause delays with a mortgage - documents go missing, banks going back and forth looking for info, buyer has problems getting the necessary life cover etc. Also means they're not in a chain, so them buying the house isn't conditional on someone else buying their old property.


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    #77
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users Posts: 14,330 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    I think folks are here are crazy or have never bought or sold a place in their lives. First place I bought for 12% below asking and second place was on at 310, we started at 220 and finished at 280. Would have finished at 262 if their agent did things right.

    The estate agents will estimate a bigger band than 10% so giving out to a fella for starting 10% below asking is off the wall.

    The OP is going up against the worst possible seller, one who had an the time in the world to wait until prices and demand rise up to match what is worth to them. In their position I wouldn't be turning down the possibility of an extra 30k for free when I don't have any pressure to sell.

    As for starting under by 10%, well the OP got the right answer, and no property.

    Short of the op doing a Tadgh McCabe on the widow, they'll be in no hurry to sell under.


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    #78
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Gael23 wrote: »
    What do you do in a case where the owner of a property is in no hurry to sell and nothing other than the full asking price will be considered?

    I am also interested in this topic.
    I finnd recently that the asking price is no longer the selling price and personally i think Estate agents should quote the selling price when dealing with buyer.
    I made enquiries about this and it seems to be the norm.
    Personally i think it should be stopped.


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    #79
    hurleronditch
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭hurleronditch


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I am also interested in this topic.
    I finnd recently that the asking price is no longer the selling price and personally i think Estate agents should quote the selling price when dealing with buyer.
    I made enquiries about this and it seems to be the norm.
    Personally i think it should be stopped.

    This makes no sense. The asking price is what they are asking for. As someone outlined most EAs will put it up for what they feel it should go for or the seller has told them they want.

    Some will undervalue it so as to get interest and bids flowing early.

    Some others may overvalue to convince buyers it’s a better house than it is and get an underbid which is better than the “real” hidden asking.

    But the bottom line is the EA has no duty of care when it comes to pricing towards the potential buyers. How could they?

    If every EA put an ad up saying the asking is 300 but the seller will accept 280 they’d be a fairly ****e agent. I think this is what you’re implying. Basic game theory, economics 101, salesmanship 101 and the dummies guide on how to negotiate a deal all would suggest that’s not what anyone in their right mind would do.


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    #80
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    hurleronditch wrote: »
    This makes no sense. The asking price is what they are asking for. As someone outlined most EAs will put it up for what they feel it should go for or the seller has told them they want.

    Some will undervalue it so as to get interest and bids flowing early.

    Some others may overvalue to convince buyers it’s a better house than it is and get an underbid which is better than the “real” hidden asking.

    But the bottom line is the EA has no duty of care when it comes to pricing towards the potential buyers. How could they?

    If every EA put an ad up saying the asking is 300 but the seller will accept 280 they’d be a fairly ****e agent. I think this is what you’re implying. Basic game theory, economics 101, salesmanship 101 and the dummies guide on how to negotiate a deal all would suggest that’s not what anyone in their right mind would do.

    Any agent who cannot value a property is in my opinion a ****e agent.


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    #81
    hurleronditch
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭hurleronditch


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Any agent who cannot value a property is in my opinion a ****e agent.

    They can value it, they just have zero incentive, rationale or compulsion to tell you as a possible buyer what it’s really worth and what the seller is willing to sell for. All they have to try and do is get you or someone else to pay the maxium amount of money possible for the property.

    Now at the very endgame it may help them to say, go another 5k to 10 below asking and they’ll sell, but why would they start at that.

    If the asking is 300, but the seller is happy to take 280, why would the estate agent tell you selling is 280 in case a buyer might just happen to start the bidding at 290?


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    #82
    checkcheek
    Registered Users Posts: 207 ✭✭checkcheek


    Any house is only worth what you are will to pay for it.

    If you think a house is worth 2 million and willing to pay it. Good for you.

    If you think a house is worth 300k. Then equally great.

    So as others say. You and only you need to see if asking price is the price you think it’s worth. If not. Then move on.

    However I don’t think it’s a 100% sellers market. I’ve friends who have bid on houses slight below asking. To be told no. And the house has then remained on the market for months. And ends up selling for even less. As expected sellers want as much money as they can get. And buyers want it for the least amount of money!!!!

    I see a house as just that. A house. Others see it as where they will spend the rest of their lives, rare families etc.


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    #83
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    hurleronditch wrote: »
    They can value it, they just have zero incentive, rationale or compulsion to tell you as a possible buyer what it’s really worth and what the seller is willing to sell for. All they have to try and do is get you or someone else to pay the maxium amount of money possible for the property.

    Now at the very endgame it may help them to say, go another 5k to 10 below asking and they’ll sell, but why would they start at that.

    If the asking is 300, but the seller is happy to take 280, why would the estate agent tell you selling is 280 in case a buyer might just happen to start the bidding at 290?

    For me they are unprofessional and it is like buying on Ebay.
    Why would anyone employ an agent, i would put on the property website and sell myself.
    I am currently thinking of moving and all properties tjhat the agents are on there. There is no require to be an agent to list a property so people will cop-on. I had this conversation with an estate agent last week...


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    #84
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Any agent who cannot value a property is in my opinion a ****e agent.

    They should all be mindreaders?


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    #85
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Dav010 wrote: »
    They should all be mindreaders?

    They used be PROFESSIONAL and ask a bit more than the market value.
    Now they simply do not know and the market decides like as i said Ebay...


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    #86
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    maestroamado wrote: »
    They used be PROFESSIONAL and ask a bit more than the market value.
    Now they simply do not know and the market decides like as i said Ebay...

    Market has always decided what a property is worth, not an auctioneer. It is the highest value a buyer is willing to pay at a particular time.

    If an EA values a house at 300k and bidding pushes it to 350, is the valuation wrong? Or is it just that at least two people who really want that property kept bidding until one dropped out?

    Considering what is going on, all indicators are that property prices should be falling, but they are not due to supply issues, wfh, increased savings etc. Some renowned economists predicted 20% falls in property prices, but they have gone up, so expecting anyone to put an accurate valuation on a property right now is expecting a lot.


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    #87
    vinnie_cork
    Registered Users Posts: 71 ✭✭vinnie_cork


    I sold in 2019. House went on market October 2018. Got a number of different viewers and got 1 offer in December of 10% under.
    I had no intention of giving a 10% discount to a stranger. House was at market price of what the identical houses had sold for. So I turned it down.
    January they upped offer but still €30k under. House went sale agreed in February & exchanged keys in March for €10k over as 2 interested parties all the time the 1st bidder was bidding but didn’t get it.
    Thing was, if they had offered the asking price in December I’d have accepted it.
    I was looking at different properties but was not sale agreed so would Cash offer wouldn’t have bothered me.

    The house I did end up buying was the flip side of it. It had been on market for 2 years. Was an estate sale by executor of a will. Major structural issues but clearly visible. I did the sums and worked out a price that would work for me to make it what I wanted & address the issues.
    Made an offer, was turned down, I spoke to agent and got indication of what would cut it. I ended up buying for 20% under. I needed every cent to get the house livable again.
    So, depending on situation, how long on market, why being sold, that’s the way price works.


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    #88
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Dav010 wrote: »
    Market has always decided what a property is worth, not an auctioneer. It is the highest value a buyer is willing to pay at a particular time.

    If an EA values a house at 300k and bidding pushes it to 350, is the valuation wrong? Or is it just that at least two people who really want that property kept bidding until one dropped out?

    Considering what is going on, all indicators are that property prices should be falling, but they are not due to supply issues, wfh, increased savings etc. Some renowned economists predicted 20% falls in property prices, but they have gone up, so expecting anyone to put an accurate valuation on a property right now is expecting a lot.

    Of course the market decides but in my view the EA needs to set the asking price in according to value, i am surprised it is legal as all goods need be sold at listed price, for some strange reason it seems not the case with property...


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    #89
    Dav010
    Registered Users Posts: 14,068 ✭✭✭✭Dav010


    maestroamado wrote: »
    Of course the market decides but in my view the EA needs to set the asking price in according to value, i am surprised it is legal as all goods need be sold at listed price, for some strange reason it seems not the case with property...

    All goods do not need to be sold at a listed price, advertised price is just an invitation to treat.

    An EA does not set the asking price, the seller does. The EA is there to give guidance, nothing more. Value being a movable figure depending on how much buyers are willing to pay, I’m not sure how asking price can be fixed to a price point that can fluctuate. Value is decided at the end of the process when the sale completes, not necessarily at the start when the expected selling price could be considerably lower or indeed higher.


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    #90
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    maestroamado wrote: »
    For me they are unprofessional and it is like buying on Ebay.
    Why would anyone employ an agent, i would put on the property website and sell myself.
    I am currently thinking of moving and all properties tjhat the agents are on there. There is no require to be an agent to list a property so people will cop-on. I had this conversation with an estate agent last week...

    Well be sure to ask for less than you can actually get in the name of being professional. (Sounds outright amateur to me but what do I know?)


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    #91
    Melanchthon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,118 ✭✭✭Melanchthon


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Most sellers would have it priced accordingly. And almost everyone would be willing to accept a little bit under what they're looking for, unless there was a crazy amount of bidding going on.

    I have never heard of anyone accepting almost 10% below asking. Ever.

    I don't know, late last year started noticing houses that were popping up with 20/30 grand reductions in asking price, as well as places that bidding wasn't reaching asking, they might have later but doubtful.
    It's definitely a seller's market but what I see is that sellers know that and some are then putting houses on the market for unrealistic prices.


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