Seller unwilling to negotiate

Panrich · 10-02-2021 8:32am

maestroamado wrote: »

I was asking for maximum, then I have to decide if I want to buy, that's my very point.
The EA asked me what I thought value.
For me this practice is Unprofessional.

So there was no asking price at all?

10-02-2021 8:34am

maestroamado wrote: »

I will buy today at the listed price.
I asked for a number and EA not know.
I want to buy it today, I am not in the business of feeling people out. Unprofessional for me Yes.

What you asking is, is there a number at which the seller will sell today?

That is for the vendor to decide, unless they are in a hurry, most will let the bidding play out.

knucklehead6 · 10-02-2021 8:38am

maestroamado wrote: »

I will buy today at the listed price.
I asked for a number and EA not know.
I want to buy it today, I am not in the business of feeling people out. Unprofessional for me Yes.

How would the Estate Agent know what the vendors are willing to accept as a lowest price?

His job is to act as a go between.

You make a bid, he presents it to the vendors, they either accept or reject.

It's not exactly rocket science.

As for buying at the listed price today, making an offer, it being accepted and going sale agreed all in the one day, you might be being a touch optimistic

10-02-2021 9:47am

maestroamado wrote: »

Well the agents seem not be aware of this.
I called an EA a few days ago and asked for the selling price of a house they have on books for €000 and I interested, he asked me what I thought it was worth? I said I thought not for me to say. He suggested showing and I said I only interested if I have selling price as person looking has cash. EA said save my number and come back to me.
As someone said here it's sellers market which is fine but EA should be able to give a selling price in my view, give the buyer a chance to buy.
I totally think this wrong way of doing business.

If this conversation actually happened, you realise it is not up to the estate agent to decide what the selling price of a house is right? It is up to the buyer. The estate agent can't pick a figure and decide that is the price. If you want to buy the house then make a bid.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:01am

Amanda Ugly Robin wrote: »

If this conversation actually happened, you realise it is not up to the estate agent to decide what the selling price of a house is right? It is up to the buyer. The estate agent can't pick a figure and decide that is the price. If you want to buy the house then make a bid.

I bought quite a few properties and last 10+ years ago and this practice was not there at that time except as guide price at auction.
From meomory all property i bought were around asking price.
Now people are being asked to pay mpore than asking price.
For me this is DODGY it be interesting to see if anyone here agrees..

vinnie_cork · 10-02-2021 10:03am

EA acts for the seller whom is the client not the buyer.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:03am

Panrich wrote: »

So there was no asking price at all?

Yes and it is listed on daft.ie with the NUMBER in €€€

10-02-2021 10:04am

maestroamado wrote: »

Yes and it is listed on daft.ie with the NUMBER in €€€

Well why don't you offer whatever you feel is a good price?

knucklehead6 · 10-02-2021 10:05am

maestroamado wrote: »

I bought quite a few properties and last 10+ years ago and this practice was not there at that time except as guide price at auction.
From meomory all property i bought were around asking price.
Now people are being asked to pay mpore than asking price.
For me this is DODGY it be interesting to see if anyone here agrees..

No one is being asked to pay more than asking price. If you are in a situation where more than one person wants to buy the property then they may each try to out bid each other, and may well go over the asking price.

But the vendor is under no obligation to sell, they can pull the house from the market at any time up to money and contracts changing hands.

This happened to me 12 years ago, went sale agreed (admittedly it was for below the asking price but we were in the depths of a recession) on a Wednesday and got a phone call the following Friday to say the vendor had pulled the plug

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:07am

bubblypop wrote: »

Well why don't you offer whatever you feel is a good price?

That is not the way i think it should be done.
I expect he will come back to me before it closes and i will decide then.
It EA knew his job i possibly buy today.

knucklehead6 · 10-02-2021 10:11am

maestroamado wrote: »

That is not the way i think it should be done.
I expect he will come back to me before it closes and i will decide then.
It EA knew his job i possibly buy today.

So because in your opinion it shouldn't be done in that way (where you make a bid) you are possibly (and i'd say probably tbh) going to miss out on a house you have spotted that suits your needs.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay then. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face

Grueller · 10-02-2021 10:16am

Grueller Baby wrote: »

It's a sellers market at the moment. If the seller won't budge, you can be sure someone else is going to offer more.

To share my experience (from a sellers perspective), I've had an apartment on the marketplace for close to 9 months. 5 months ago I got offered 30k less than asking and I was told that it was the best I was going to get.

Two weeks ago the apartment sold for 2.5k over asking price.

How did I not know you existed

vinnie_cork · 10-02-2021 10:19am

maestroamado wrote: »

I expect he will come back to me before it closes and i will decide then.

So your describing the term gazumping. Where a buyer puts in offer. It’s accepted by seller. And just before exchanging contracts EA phones a 3rd party seeking an other bid?
If that happened to be I’d never look at a house for sale by that EA again and soon word would get about and affect business.
EA fee is something like 2% of sale. So in the example the OP put up that’s a difference of €600 in fee... the EA will want a fast sale as they make money either way. Holding out just means more overhead costs for them so that’s no drive to hold. It’s the sellers choice. They Aren’t there to make the buyer a fast buck & saving they are there to protect their own interests.

10-02-2021 10:19am

maestroamado wrote: »

That is not the way i think it should be done.
I expect he will come back to me before it closes and i will decide then.
It EA knew his job i possibly buy today.

How or why would be come back to you?
Have you put an offer in?

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:22am

bubblypop wrote: »

How or why would be come back to you?
Have you put an offer in?

Because he said he would...

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:26am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

So because in your opinion it shouldn't be done in that way (where you make a bid) you are possibly (and i'd say probably tbh) going to miss out on a house you have spotted that suits your needs.

Okaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay then. Talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face

I already have a good house, i know what i am doing.
Its not just an opinion, i am talking from experience and am simply asking when and why did this practice change..

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:32am

vinnie_cork wrote: »

So your describing the term gazumping. Where a buyer puts in offer. It’s accepted by seller. And just before exchanging contracts EA phones a 3rd party seeking an other bid?
If that happened to be I’d never look at a house for sale by that EA again and soon word would get about and affect business.
EA fee is something like 2% of sale. So in the example the OP put up that’s a difference of €600 in fee... the EA will want a fast sale as they make money either way. Holding out just means more overhead costs for them so that’s no drive to hold. It’s the sellers choice. They Aren’t there to make the buyer a fast buck & saving they are there to protect their own interests.

I totally agree with you though we coming from different angles, this is why i would rather the price at a higher level.
If i wanted and agreed pricei would deposit 10% and that it.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 10:38am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

No one is being asked to pay more than asking price. If you are in a situation where more than one person wants to buy the property then they may each try to out bid each other, and may well go over the asking price.

But the vendor is under no obligation to sell, they can pull the house from the market at any time up to money and contracts changing hands.

This happened to me 12 years ago, went sale agreed (admittedly it was for below the asking price but we were in the depths of a recession) on a Wednesday and got a phone call the following Friday to say the vendor had pulled the plug

I got caught with this where i though i agreed a price, the EA came back and said there was an offer 2k more so i went again, he then said a few days later that a 3rd player had arrived with 1k more, i told him i would get back to him...

knucklehead6 · 10-02-2021 10:48am

maestroamado wrote: »

I already have a good house, i know what i am doing.
Its not just an opinion, i am talking from experience and am simply asking when and why did this practice change..

Where you ask an estate agent what's the best price? As far as I know the practice was always there, but the EA is under no obligation to come back to you.

I've only been involved in three house purchases, two which fell through and the one I am currently in. In my cases one vendor decided not to sell after going sale agreed for whatever reason, and they are still in that house. I was outbid for the second one, but the EA did come back to me to let me know. I then found the place i'm in now

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 10:56am

Gael23 wrote: »

Even a cash offer with no chain doesn’t seem to matter. They are happy to wait for more money

Cash offer makes no difference.
The seller still ends up with the same amount in their bank account whether it comes from your savings account, the credit union or a banks mortgage account.

You seem to think you are entitled to a discount for being a "cash buyer" ?

Draco · 10-02-2021 11:00am

Gumbo wrote: »

Cash offer makes no difference.
The seller still ends up with the same amount in their bank account whether it comes from your savings account, the credit union or a banks mortgage account.

You seem to think you are entitled to a discount for being a "cash buyer" ?

It does if they're in a hurry - drawdowns take time (especially at the moment due to COVID) and if they are in immediate need of the cash it can make the difference. If there are any challenges with the property (e.g. needing complete renovation) that can add huge delays (Added 3 months to my closing).

vinnie_cork · 10-02-2021 11:03am

Draco wrote: »

(Added 3 months to my closing).

I’d wait 3 months for €30k... I’d wait 12 tbh.

The Phantom Jipper · 10-02-2021 11:10am

Baffled by some of the advice on this thread. People seem scandalised at the notion of bidding below asking despite none of us knowing if the asking is completely inflated. Is there not a saying about if you're not embarrassed by your opening offer, it's probably too high?

partyguinness · 10-02-2021 11:14am

There are a lot of BS buyers offering 'cash offers' just to get the property off the market.

Low and behold the bank's valuer turns up at the door a few weeks later for a mortgage valuation.

Ultimately the valuation is determined by what somebody is willing to pay. Estate Agents are an irrelevance and their greatest achievement is hoodwinking the public into thinking they are necessary- a property will sell regardless.

fliball123 · 10-02-2021 11:15am

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Baffled by some of the advice on this thread. People seem scandalised at the notion of bidding below asking despite none of us knowing if the asking is completely inflated. Is there not a saying about if you're not embarrassed by your opening offer, it's probably too high?

They are baffled by a buyer insistence on a seller not wanting to sell at a price that they deem is too low. Its the flip of what your saying. By all means everyone has the right to bid below but there is some silly responses when the seller says no I want more. If the buyer wants the property they know what they have to do or walk away. Its that simple.

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 11:18am

maestroamado wrote: »

I already have a good house, i know what i am doing.
Its not just an opinion, i am talking from experience and am simply asking when and why did this practice change..

It hasn't changed. Its always been like this here in Ireland. That's how our "system" works.

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 11:20am

Draco wrote: »

It does if they're in a hurry - drawdowns take time (especially at the moment due to COVID) and if they are in immediate need of the cash it can make the difference. If there are any challenges with the property (e.g. needing complete renovation) that can add huge delays (Added 3 months to my closing).

You always hear the worse case scenario about delays, lost documents etc.

The sellers are retired and in no rush based on the info at hand. In my years buying and selling my own homes, ive never experienced delays that were substantial.

Renovations are not delays, they are personal requirements to update the property to your liking.

The Phantom Jipper · 10-02-2021 11:22am

fliball123 wrote: »

They are baffled by a buyer insistence on a seller not wanting to sell at a price that they deem is too low. Its the flip of what your saying. By all means everyone has the right to bid below but there is some silly responses when the seller says no I want more. If the buyer wants the property they know what they have to do or walk away. Its that simple.

I'm talking more about people ridiculing the opening bid when it could in fact be perfectly reasonable, and the 350k asking could be an extreme overpay.

The rest of the advice about increasing the bid or walking now that the bidder has the lay of the land seems reasonable, no issue with that.

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 11:23am

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

I'm talking more about people ridiculing the opening bid when it could in fact be perfectly reasonable, and the 350k asking could be an extreme overpay.

The rest of the advice about increasing the bid or walking now that the bidder has the lay of the land seems reasonable, no issue with that.

Posters can only assume the asking price of 350k is reasonable. Otherwise the OP could have stated that based on recent sales he feels its a reasonable offer.

But they haven't, they specifically stated that they thought by being a cash buyer they would have "the upper hand".

partyguinness · 10-02-2021 11:28am

Another less widely known factor is that Estate Agents will always over egg the asking price purely for selfish reasons- they want the business.

Seller asks say, 3 Estate Agents for a valuation with a view to marketing:

EA#1 = "€300k"
EA#2 = "€290k
EA#3 = "€320k"

Seller invariably goes with EA#3 and EA#3 has secured the business. Then when when nobody is biting at €320k the EA can just say "Oh sure it's the market. Let's drop to €300k". They don't care they have the business.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 11:28am

Gumbo wrote: »

It hasn't changed. Its always been like this here in Ireland. That's how our "system" works.

All of the properties i bought in my lifetime (7) were below asking price except for one i paid full ask price.
My point is if you don't get it is i asked the EA if he accept full ask price and all i got, well well waffle.
I said same to him as i am saying as i am kinda friendly with him...

Gumbo · 10-02-2021 11:31am

maestroamado wrote: »

All of the properties i bought in my lifetime (7) were below asking price except for one i paid full ask price.
My point is if you don't get it is i asked the EA if he accept full ask price and all i got, well well waffle.
I said same to him as i am saying as i am kinda friendly with him...

Scenario 1
Property advertised at 100k.
Buyer offers 80k.
seller accepts.

Scenario 2
Property advertised at 100k.
Buyer 1 offers 80k.
seller says no.
Buyer 2 offer 105k
seller accepts.

It can go either way. It has always been this way based on the purchases of my properties. Always offer below, bit you have to weigh up other interested parties and the value you put on the property itself.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 11:32am

partyguinness wrote: »

Another less widely known factor is that Estate Agents will always over egg the asking price purely for selfish reasons- they want the business.

Seller asks say, 3 Estate Agents for a valuation with a view to marketing:

EA#1 = "€300k"
EA#2 = "€290k
EA#3 = "€320k"

Seller invariably goes with EA#3 and EA#3 has secured the business. Then when when nobody is biting at €320k the EA can just say "Oh sure it's the market. Let's drop to €300k". They don't care they have the business.

This is the complete opposite as to what i am talking about.
I would be happy to pay the full asking price on EA agent webpage for this place.
That is why i engaged to see what others thought.

The Phantom Jipper · 10-02-2021 11:36am

Gumbo wrote: »

Posters can only assume the asking price of 350k is reasonable. Otherwise the OP could have stated that based on recent sales he feels its a reasonable offer.

But they haven't, they specifically stated that they thought by being a cash buyer they would have "the upper hand".

I think we're talking about two different things here. I'm commenting purely on the notion that bidding over 90% of the asking is somehow an insult to the seller - it seems like bad advice to suggest this.

fliball123 · 10-02-2021 11:40am

maestroamado wrote: »

This is the complete opposite as to what i am talking about.
I would be happy to pay the full asking price on EA agent webpage for this place.
That is why i engaged to see what others thought.

OK well ask yourself the question you have a property for sale for 100k and someone has offered that, if time was not a factor and you had the current station where there is very little supply would you accept straight away or would wait a period of time and use the full asking to see if others will offer more..Only a complete idiot would accept straight away. if you are offering asking I would give the seller a period of time to accept or your pulling the offer

grogi · 10-02-2021 11:43am

Gael23 wrote: »

What do you do in a case where the owner of a property is in no hurry to sell and nothing other than the full asking price will be considered?

Unless there was a secret Meth lab in the basement, you don't have many options

iColdFusion · 10-02-2021 11:44am

Time is the big factor in this I would say, if the house sits unsold for 6 months with little interest then the seller would be more likely to consider a below asking price offer, up until 6 months as the seller id be wanting full asking price though until the market tells me im overpriced.

I wouldn't assume the sellers in this scenario, even though they are retired, arnt motivated to sell though because they could be trying to buy their ideal downsize house close to family elsewhere.

knucklehead6 · 10-02-2021 11:44am

maestroamado wrote: »

All of the properties i bought in my lifetime (7) were below asking price except for one i paid full ask price.
My point is if you don't get it is i asked the EA if he accept full ask price and all i got, well well waffle.
I said same to him as i am saying as i am kinda friendly with him...

That's not what you said initially

maestroamado wrote: »

Well the agents seem not be aware of this.
I called an EA a few days ago and asked for the selling price of a house they have on books for €000 and I interested, he asked me what I thought it was worth? I said I thought not for me to say. He suggested showing and I said I only interested if I have selling price as person looking has cash. EA said save my number and come back to me.
As someone said here it's sellers market which is fine but EA should be able to give a selling price in my view, give the buyer a chance to buy.
I totally think this wrong way of doing business.

That's what you said.

I (and it seems, others) took that to mean that you were asking the EA what price the vendor would accept.

Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact I'd say any of us who have bought under the asking price have asked an EA that question. It was just that you seemed to take offence at the suggestion from people here that the EA was under no obligation to come back to you with an answer, friendship notwithstanding.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 11:51am

fliball123 wrote: »

OK well ask yourself the question you have a property for sale for 100k and someone has offered that, if time was not a factor and you had the current station where there is very little supply would you accept straight away or would wait a period of time and use the full asking to see if others will offer more..Only a complete idiot would accept straight away. if you are offering asking I would give the seller a period of time to accept or your pulling the offer

I agree but that's not my point, the EA if they know their stuff should pitch ask price a bit above expected.
In my senario if agent thought valur 90k and asked 100 k all ok.
Then if the market brought it to 110k everyone happy.
What i have experienced in the last few Months is EAs telling me that they expect at least ask price+
It really not a big problem for me but thats not what i thought EAs were about...

Toots · 10-02-2021 11:53am

partyguinness wrote: »

There are a lot of BS buyers offering 'cash offers' just to get the property off the market.

Low and behold the bank's valuer turns up at the door a few weeks later for a mortgage valuation.

Ultimately the valuation is determined by what somebody is willing to pay. Estate Agents are an irrelevance and their greatest achievement is hoodwinking the public into thinking they are necessary- a property will sell regardless.

I think a lot of people think that if they're not in a chain they are a cash buyer. Possibly they confuse it with buying a car where so long as you're not trading something in you're a "cash buyer".

Personally, a "cash" offer of 30k below asking would not cut the mustard for me. If it was a case that 2 people were bidding, one party offering asking but were part of a chain and the other party was offering 5k less but were an actual proper cash buyer and could close quicker, I'd go with them. Being a cash buyer certainly makes you more attractive but it wouldn't be 30k worth of attractive.

maestroamado · 10-02-2021 11:54am

knucklehead6 wrote: »

That's not what you said initially

That's what you said.

I (and it seems, others) took that to mean that you were asking the EA what price the vendor would accept.

Don't get me wrong, there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact I'd say any of us who have bought under the asking price have asked an EA that question. It was just that you seemed to take offence at the suggestion from people here that the EA was under no obligation to come back to you with an answer, friendship notwithstanding.

The relationship is not that friendly and even if it was i would expect him to look after the seller as thats his job.
I asked if he would accept the price listed on their own EA website.
I do not what i said initially that caused confusion, i did not reveal i was buying for me until i was asked...

BnB · 10-02-2021 11:57am

The Phantom Jipper wrote: »

Baffled by some of the advice on this thread. People seem scandalised at the notion of bidding below asking despite none of us knowing if the asking is completely inflated. Is there not a saying about if you're not embarrassed by your opening offer, it's probably too high?

I'd 100% agree with you. But, equally some posters seem scandalised by the notion that the owner would not just accept an offer below the asking price.

For sure, make your low offer. Leave it on the table... Play the best cards you have otherwise (cash, quick sale etc etc if you can do it). If the seller is in a rush, they may just take your offer or at least negotiate with you. If they're not in a rush, but it is over valued, then you have to be prepared to leave the offer there and let them stew and hopefully (for you) over time, with no more offers coming in, they'll come back to you for a chat.

On the other side, if you're in a rush to buy or you're buying with your heart (you love the house and you want to live there) .... well then that puts you in a tricky position. You don't want to risk losing it so you're likely to blink first.

Ultimately, it's just a big game of cat and mouse....!!!!

DavyD_83 · 10-02-2021 11:59am

What do you do when the cashier in Tesco doesn't want to negotiate?

10-02-2021 12:00pm

maestroamado wrote: »

The relationship is not that friendly and even if it was i would expect him to look after the seller as thats his job.
I asked if he would accept the price listed on their own EA website.
I do not what i said initially that caused confusion, i did not reveal i was buying for me until i was asked...

Your posts have been very confusing!
You're saying now that you told the estate agent that you would.offer the asking price & he is getting back to you?
Seems perfectly normal to me.
He has to ask the seller if they want to sell at that price, for all you know they may have a few interested parties.
Lots of houses sell for over asking price, it doesn't mean the estate agent is wrong.

partyguinness · 10-02-2021 12:09pm

Toots wrote: »

I think a lot of people think that if they're not in a chain they are a cash buyer. Possibly they confuse it with buying a car where so long as you're not trading something in you're a "cash buyer".

Personally, a "cash" offer of 30k below asking would not cut the mustard for me. If it was a case that 2 people were bidding, one party offering asking but were part of a chain and the other party was offering 5k less but were an actual proper cash buyer and could close quicker, I'd go with them. Being a cash buyer certainly makes you more attractive but it wouldn't be 30k worth of attractive.

"cash buyer" is promoted as a quick sale/buy. But as you said we are not taking a few hundred hundred euros here...€30k is €30k. Some people have to slog it out damn hard for a €30k annual salary.

I know Celtic Tiger days lads were scoffing at €30k as nothing...big shots who ended up in NAMA.

partyguinness · 10-02-2021 12:17pm

The last house I bought in 2016 in England (same principles) was marketed at £275k. Now I did my research and a fair price would have been around the £260-£270k. But two factors:-

1. The seller's attitude:

"I expect £280k. I have already had two solid offers at £280k. Buyer #1 could not get a mortgage and buyer #2 was stuck trying to sell so rather than wait we have stuck it back on the market."

In other words she was going to get £280k all day long. She knew it and I knew it and my thoroughly researched £260k didnt matter one bit.

Why accept £260k when people are biting her hand off at £280k?

2. The house ticked all the boxes for us so we had to run with it at £280k or else walk away.

woejus · 10-02-2021 12:18pm

partyguinness wrote: »

I know Celtic Tiger days lads were scoffing at €30k as nothing...big shots who ended up in NAMA.

€30k on a €1.5m house = 2%
€30k on a €300k apartment = 10%

Cash in hand definitely makes a difference at a higher price.

I know I wouldn't be hanging around for months for €30k against €1.5m.

Particularly if this meant I missed out on a property I want to buy.

Cyrus · 10-02-2021 12:21pm

woejus wrote: »

€30k on a €1.5m house = 2%
€30k on a €300k apartment = 10%

Cash in hand definitely makes a difference at a higher price.

I know I wouldn't be hanging around for months for €30k against €1.5m.

Particularly if this meant I missed out on a property I want to buy.

for sure, but in this scenario its 30k off a 350k asking price.

partyguinness · 10-02-2021 12:30pm

woejus wrote: »

€30k on a €1.5m house = 2%
€30k on a €300k apartment = 10%

Cash in hand definitely makes a difference at a higher price.

I know I wouldn't be hanging around for months for €30k against €1.5m.

Particularly if this meant I missed out on a property I want to buy.

Well no, not at €1.5m but that is changing the goal posts from €300k. Plus at that end of the market (€1.5m) your pool of buyers shrinks considerably.

It's amazing how many sellers of €1m+ properties don't appreciate that. A buyer lowballs them by say €100k and they throw a huge hissy fit and threaten to put the property back on the market. My attitude is "Go right ahead. Let's see how many people are lining up to buy." The world becomes a very lonely place all of a sudden.

The most expensive the property the more precious and thin skinned the sellers become.

Just yesterday a buddy of mine had an offer accepted at £2.2m when the asking price was £2.5m.

woejus · 10-02-2021 12:34pm

partyguinness wrote: »

Well no, not at €1.5m but that is changing the goal posts from €300k. Plus at that end of the market (€1.5m) your pool of buyers shrinks considerably.

It's amazing how many seller's of €1m+ properties don't appreciate that. A buyer lowballs them by say €100k and they throw a huge hissy fit and threaten to put the property back on the market. My attitude is "Go right ahead. Let's see how many people ar lining up to buy." The world becomes a very lonely place all of a sudden,

Just yesterday a buddy of mine had an offer accepted at £2.2m when the asking price was £2.5m.

Agree with you here. Houses for living in at €1.5m+ in Dublin are more positional goods, where the SP is more of an opener. Hence why when the times are good, you see more auctions, much better chance of getting two bidders hot under the collar.

I'm sorry I missed the initial discussion where he said it was a ~€300k property. He's on a hiding to nothing trying to lowball the vendor, they've little or no incentive to come down.

Where are they off to is the question - a retirement complex? What benefit is it to them to sell earlier and cheaper?

Seller unwilling to negotiate

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