New build - control4/ automation

kayabram · 24-05-2018 7:39pm #1

Hey there
Currently in the process of starting a new build in Cork
And researching what we want to put into the house
I’ve been reading a bit about home automation and am wondering is it expensive , has anyone had a control4 system put in in recent years
I’m looking at multi room audio , WiFi network , motorised blinds ,
What other items can be automated as such
Any help or advice is appreciated

wexfordman2 · 25-05-2018 9:58am

kayabram wrote: »

Hey there
Currently in the process of starting a new build in Cork
And researching what we want to put into the house
I’ve been reading a bit about home automation and am wondering is it expensive , has anyone had a control4 system put in in recent years
I’m looking at multi room audio , WiFi network , motorised blinds ,
What other items can be automated as such
Any help or advice is appreciated

For multiroom audio, it has to be either Sonos, or smart speakers (a mixture of Google homes and Google max when it is launchdf in Europe).

WiFi, you need to plan for a wired network throughout your house, and then slot in WiFi on top, dint rely on wifi only, wired is always better, leave wifi for internet browsing, smartphones and tablets etc.

Heating:- No new house should be without smart heating, what you use depends first in the type of heating you are putting in.

Lights:- lots of options here, but as your building from scratch, I would suggest going for a wired solution rather than the likes of hue wireless solution (hue could be included in the mix for lamps etc but not part of your Central lighting into)

Tv:- plan this around your wired internet network for future proofing, but out in a decent coax setup to give you distribution of terrestrial or sky etc). Sky q is an option but expensive IMHO

wexfordman2 · 25-05-2018 8:43pm

Oh yeah, and goes without saying, a min of 1 cat5 cable to each their point also, 4 in the main tv rooms.

Cat6 actually

Nedved85 · 14-06-2018 9:54am

As wexfordman was saying. bring cables everywhere, even if you don't think you'll need them.
2 x CAT 6 to your TV points. 4 X Coax to your TV points (2 For Freesat, 1 for Saorview, 1 recundancy).
Neutral wires to each light switch.
Research how to automate a light switch that is 1 gang 2 way (ie the hall lights upstairs/downstairs).. I don't know the best solution to this problem.
I would try to avoid 2 way switches. eg the lights in the kitchen, try to avoid 2 light switches that can turn one set of lights off..
Hope this helps

Nedved85 · 14-06-2018 9:58am

Put a CAT 6 in your hall. You never know when you'll need it down the line. Route all cables to the attic. Plan out a POE CCTV system - Hikvision is best, and can be picked up quite reasonably on ebay. I can recommend a good installer for CCTV in the Cork area.. You could run cat 6 to each potential CCTV point, eg the eaves of the roof front and rear.
Bring a CAT 6 to the doorbell (I missed this one in my new build).
If you are putting a shed in down the line, bring a CAT 6 to that

Pick up a small rack for all of your networking equipment in the attic.
I did this myself:
6U rack from Amazon
24 Port 1GB Patch Panel
24 Port Rack Mounted Switch.

wexfordman2 · 14-06-2018 10:07am

Nedved85 wrote: »

Put a CAT 6 in your hall. You never know when you'll need it down the line. Route all cables to the attic. Plan out a POE CCTV system - Hikvision is best, and can be picked up quite reasonably on ebay. I can recommend a good installer for CCTV in the Cork area.. You could run cat 6 to each potential CCTV point, eg the eaves of the roof front and rear.
Bring a CAT 6 to the doorbell (I missed this one in my new build).
If you are putting a shed in down the line, bring a CAT 6 to that
Pick up a small rack for all of your networking equipment in the attic.
I did this myself:
6U rack from Amazon
24 Port 1GB Patch Panel
24 Port Rack Mounted Switch.

I would double up on the cat6 to the shed and hall as well

Op has gone quiet though ?

TCP/IP · 21-06-2018 12:49pm

I have Control4 installed in the house and put it in two years ago when doing a large extension to the house.
Installed Cat 6 in every room in the house all going to back to a comms room and patch panel and switch.
I have Control4 programmed to control the lights, heating, AV kit, cameras, Sonos audio the lot.
It's not cheap but is very stable and easy to use. I used HIFI for all the AV work. - https://www.hifihut.ie/

stickman1019 · 30-06-2018 1:27pm

Nedved85 wrote: »

As wexfordman was saying. bring cables everywhere, even if you don't think you'll need them.
2 x CAT 6 to your TV points. 4 X Coax to your TV points (2 For Freesat, 1 for Saorview, 1 recundancy).
Neutral wires to each light switch.
Research how to automate a light switch that is 1 gang 2 way (ie the hall lights upstairs/downstairs).. I don't know the best solution to this problem.
I would try to avoid 2 way switches. eg the lights in the kitchen, try to avoid 2 light switches that can turn one set of lights off..
Hope this helps

Could I ask why you recommend 2 x Cat 6 cables to each TV Point??

Nedved85 · 30-06-2018 1:33pm

stickman1019 wrote: »

Could I ask why you recommend 2 x Cat 6 cables to each TV Point??

In my case, the electrician charged the same for one cat 6 as two. It provides redundancy incase one gets damaged during construction and two fit nicely into one wall plate.

wexfordman2 · 30-06-2018 2:05pm

stickman1019 wrote: »

Could I ask why you recommend 2 x Cat 6 cables to each TV Point??

1 for tv, and 1 for a streaming device, xbox or something like that.

stickman1019 · 30-06-2018 2:29pm

Cheers for the replies how does the signal hold-up when using CAT6 is it as reliable as Co-Ax??

What kind of adaptors are would be required to connect the CAT6 to a TV the only one I find from a quick Google are the BNC type which are generally for CCTV I believe.

wexfordman2 · 30-06-2018 2:32pm

stickman1019 wrote: »

Cheers for the replies how does the signal hold-up when using CAT6 is it as reliable as Co-Ax??

What kind of adaptors are would be required to connect the CAT6 to a TV the only one I find from a quick Google are the BNC type which are generally for CCTV I believe.

No, run coax and cat cable to the tv points.

samdeluxjones · 02-07-2018 2:34pm

Check out Elan with Schneider clipsal, you can add as little or as much as you like to the system as long as you have the wiring in.

I researched/visited houses with it installed for over 2-3 years before I chose it.

Switches look the best and every smart device is your remote control.

Whatever lad you talk to from whatever company will tell you theirs is the best and the others are crap.

Wire every room/loo/outside area for speakers whether you plan on using them or not, cable is cheap.

Run CAT 5/6 every where too as it's cheap and can be used for network/cameras/alarm/control switches/speakers

kayabram · 10-09-2018 8:27pm

Hey guys only just getting back on here and have read through all the advice ,
Thanks to all of you for the input and I will for sure be using a lot of your guidance !! Build has been set back due to an objection so I have time on my side to plan out properly
I plan to use sky q , but to hide the boxes in a patch panel and run it through a cat 6 to the tv , I believe it can be done , but how will the sky remote work (as in get a signal to the box to change channel etc )
I’m going to do all the wiring so iv no problem putting in loads of extra cables around the house and like the idea of bringing it all back to one location for a patch panel

dubrov · 10-09-2018 9:30pm

I believe the Sky Q remote uses Bluetooth so will go through walls.
So it should work providing the range will cover it.

If it is just infrared, an IR repeater will do the job. You'd need to wire it along with the cat6

wexfordman2 · 10-09-2018 9:49pm

kayabram wrote: »

Hey guys only just getting back on here and have read through all the advice ,
Thanks to all of you for the input and I will for sure be using a lot of your guidance !! Build has been set back due to an objection so I have time on my side to plan out properly
I plan to use sky q , but to hide the boxes in a patch panel and run it through a cat 6 to the tv , I believe it can be done , but how will the sky remote work (as in get a signal to the box to change channel etc )
I’m going to do all the wiring so iv no problem putting in loads of extra cables around the house and like the idea of bringing it all back to one location for a patch panel

Another thing to consider, is if you are putting in a coax cable system to the TV's, you can install an ir system over that as well.

I have my stb (used to be sky, but not anymore) in the living room, but I have it distributed around the house over coax, and this also gives me ir control throughout the house as well.

I actually have a HDMI cable running from the stb to the family room where we watch most TV, and the coax cable in that room is there mainly to give me ir control.

If you use a HDMI .modulator, you can actually distribute your stb in HD quite easily using coax.

To my mind the way thngs are going, coax will be legacy in the not too distant future, but is still very useful as an easy and cost effective way to distribute TV and ir control around the house.

wexfordman2 · 10-09-2018 10:21pm

kayabram wrote: »

Hey guys only just getting back on here and have read through all the advice ,
Thanks to all of you for the input and I will for sure be using a lot of your guidance !! Build has been set back due to an objection so I have time on my side to plan out properly
I plan to use sky q , but to hide the boxes in a patch panel and run it through a cat 6 to the tv , I believe it can be done , but how will the sky remote work (as in get a signal to the box to change channel etc )
I’m going to do all the wiring so iv no problem putting in loads of extra cables around the house and like the idea of bringing it all back to one location for a patch panel

Are you doing all the electrical wiring yourself ?

I saw a control4 install a few weeks back down in cork, looked very nice, never saw one before

kayabram · 10-09-2018 10:28pm

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Are you doing all the electrical wiring yourself ?

I saw a control4 install a few weeks back down in cork, looked very nice, never saw one before

At the moment I am planning to do all the electrical , I’m an electrician , but not 100% sure yet
Really , where in cork if you don’t mind me asking ? And any ideas who installed it all ðŸ€”

brio09 · 06-05-2021 9:45am

TCP/IP wrote: »

I have Control4 installed in the house and put it in two years ago when doing a large extension to the house.
Installed Cat 6 in every room in the house all going to back to a comms room and patch panel and switch.
I have Control4 programmed to control the lights, heating, AV kit, cameras, Sonos audio the lot.
It's not cheap but is very stable and easy to use. I used HIFI for all the AV work. - https://www.hifihut.ie/

TCP/IP, I was talking to a smart home consultant, and they recommended using control4 as the central hub and control4 chime as the smart doorbell. Wondering if you've used the doorbell from control4? how many different systems do you connect your control4 hub to (or is it just other devices from control4)? how easy and flexible is it to use your system via google home / alexa? how easy is it to modify your routines etc.?
Thanks!

TCP/IP · 07-05-2021 10:02pm

brio09 wrote: »

TCP/IP, I was talking to a smart home consultant, and they recommended using control4 as the central hub and control4 chime as the smart doorbell. Wondering if you've used the doorbell from control4? how many different systems do you connect your control4 hub to (or is it just other devices from control4)? how easy and flexible is it to use your system via google home / alexa? how easy is it to modify your routines etc.?
Thanks!

With Control4 you can pretty much anything the only limit is your budget. Before you make any decision also look at Savant.

brio09 · 08-05-2021 10:35am

TCP/IP wrote: »

With Control4 you can pretty much anything the only limit is your budget. Before you make any decision also look at Savant.

thanks!
i couldn't find prices for control4 online anywhere - does make the decision tricky. how much more expensive is it vs other options?
will check out savant - thank you!

TCP/IP · 08-05-2021 11:05am

brio09 wrote: »

thanks!
i couldn't find prices for control4 online anywhere - does make the decision tricky. how much more expensive is it vs other options?
will check out savant - thank you!

Even starting off you are looking at about 2k for the most basic of systems going up to 10’s of thousands depending on how complicated a system you need.
I have a Control4 and Savant system going up for sale soon as I have a new much bigger house and will be starting again from scratch with a larger system. What dealer have you spoken to?

Dont be at yourself · 08-05-2021 11:06am

My setup is:

- 2x Cat6 in each room, all routing back to utility room
- Google Wifi mesh network
- Alexa in each room
- Smart light switches wired in every room (2-way switch for landing managed by a routine)
- Roomba vacuum
- Netatmo security outdoor cam
- Netatmo thermostats
- Some additional IKEA smart cabinet lights and plugs for lamps etc
- Logitech harmony remote

Network cables are almost entirely unused; only have the Sky Q box wired in, and that’s because it’s WiFi is ****e. Nice in theory to have the option to run video etc over them, but haven’t ever needed to.

Wired light switches are great, replacing the existing physical light switches and allowing voice control, routines etc.

Netatmo thermostats are equally handy — almost always control the heating by voice now.

Never use the voice control or automation on the Harmony remote.

maxamillius · 08-05-2021 8:28pm

Check out art of smart on Instagram, very informative regarding control4, they just set up a new office in Athlon I believe

brio09 · 09-05-2021 11:13am

maxamillius wrote: »

Check out art of smart on Instagram, very informative regarding control4, they just set up a new office in Athlon I believe

went through AOS Instagram today

it was pretty cool to see the scale of projects
...
and also daunting to see the scale of wiring required to facilitate all of it. makes me realize that I shouldn't probably aim for rewiring for our "read to move in" house.

brio09 · 09-05-2021 11:18am

TCP/IP wrote: »

Even starting off you are looking at about 2k for the most basic of systems going up to 10’s of thousands depending on how complicated a system you need.
I have a Control4 and Savant system going up for sale soon as I have a new much bigger house and will be starting again from scratch with a larger system. What dealer have you spoken to?

thanks! I looked up for control4 and savant, savant was even more opaque but branded as luxury so I ended up checking the rating of their alexa skills, which was pretty poor.
then I ended up searching for control4 on reddit and it seems people blast these systems for not allowing any DIY changes at all.
what I like about systems like control4 and savant is that I can offload the initial heavy-lift of installing it - saving me time.
what seems the challenge is any future addition to routines has to be done through the dealer.

has your experience been similar?

samdeluxjones · 09-05-2021 1:12pm

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Sonoff-Assistant-Channel-Control-independently%EF%BC%88Enclosure/dp/B0793N4TNP/ref=sr_1_54?crid=2LHPVXB4AL1QK&dchild=1&keywords=wifi+switch+module&qid=1620561589&sprefix=wifi+switch%2Caps%2C210&sr=8-54

Little wiring for these, put your whole house on on an app, lights, sockets and heating. Set scenes, add hundreds of timers including sunset and sunrise switch times.

The fancy systems use costly relays and twice as costly controllers, these do the exact same thing for a fraction.

Instead of paying €20,000, pay €300-400 and what if one breaks a new one will be half the price of the control4 techs callout charge.

bittihuduga · 10-05-2021 3:03pm

probably home assistant with all the smart stuff could be the economical option

TCP/IP · 10-05-2021 3:27pm

brio09 wrote: »

thanks! I looked up for control4 and savant, savant was even more opaque but branded as luxury so I ended up checking the rating of their alexa skills, which was pretty poor.
then I ended up searching for control4 on reddit and it seems people blast these systems for not allowing any DIY changes at all.
what I like about systems like control4 and savant is that I can offload the initial heavy-lift of installing it - saving me time.
what seems the challenge is any future addition to routines has to be done through the dealer.

has your experience been similar?

What is your budget and what are you looking to do?

brio09 · 13-05-2021 9:41am

TCP/IP wrote: »

What is your budget and what are you looking to do?

these were my estimates/budget that i was going with.
lighting got bloated the most mainly from lutron recommendations from smart home consultant.
lutron switch + lutron dimmer module + lutron face plate bloated that aspect a lot.

Category - Estimate
fan control - 330
lighting - 5300
security - 779
temperature control - 1300
window treatment - 1300
sensors - 1426
outdoor - 460

brio09 · 13-05-2021 9:44am

And what i was hoping for:

* general:
- ease of initial installation - happy to hire services for it since initial investment of time is a lot and there are so many things to tackle in the house
- but ease of DIY modifications later on including routine changes, routine additions, or device additions

* fans:
- smart controlled ceiling fans

* lighting:
- color change lighting in a few rooms, yellow-white change lighting in some other, and dimmable white in some other
- physical buttons that can operate the dimming/on/off

* security
- smart doorbell
- outdoor camera

* temperature control
- would like to control multiple zones of the house independently for heating
- auto-control heat vs me needing to maintain and change schedules through the seasons

* window treatment
- smart blinds in a few rooms and smart curtains in a few other

* sensors
- occupancy/motion sensor activated lights in bathrooms and staircases
- sensor to alert when dryer is done

* outdoor
- smart sockets in protective enclosures

New build - control4/ automation

Comments