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What is considered of 'historical value'?

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  • 03-03-2012 11:45am
    #1
    wolfpawnat
    Registered Users Posts: 6,124 ✭✭✭


    Hey all, I was wondering if you could help me with a query?

    My partner has been in contact with the Dun Laoghaire - Rathdown County Council in relation to bee-hive bomb shelters that stood, until recently, in Cabinteely Park, D18. These were small little constructions, each barely fitting a couple of people at any one time, however we would have considered them a unique part of our heritage. We visited the park the other day for the first time in a long time and discovered them to be gone. Himself contacted the Co. Council to enquire about them, and this is what he got back -
    Mr. xxxxx,
    As no doubt you noticed during your recent walk at Cabinteely Park, we re-graded the area in front of Cabinteely House and removed an unattractive metal palisade fence at that location.
    During these works our staff geared up to move the two mass concrete shelters, which were not of historical value. The found they were unsafe and prone to disintegrate.
    In the circumstances a decision was made to demolish them of grounds of safety.
    xxxxxxxxxxxxx,
    DLR Parks

    My question to you now is what do you consider to be of historical value? I certainly would have valued these constructions as such. Interestingly the DLR Council listed them as being of historical value in their 'Did You Know. Celebrating Forgotten Aspects of our Local Heritage' book. I do intend on publicising this further. I would just like to gauge your thoughts and opinions.

    Here is what the 'Did You Know' book states in relation to these constructions -
    During the Second World War this shelter was built by the McGrath family in the grounds of Cabinteely House. Originally the entrance had a blast wall in front of it. It was never put into effective use although German planes did bomb Glasthule in 1940. These 'beehive' structures were designed by the Irish Defence Forces (sic) to resist the blast of a 500 pound bomb exploding as close to 50 feet away. Each could accommodate up to 6 people.

    Cabinteely House was built in 1769 by Robert Nugent, Lord Clare, who was related to the Byrne family who owned the demesne. The walls of the estate took five years to build. The house, modified in Victorian times, was bought by Joe McGrath, of Irish Hospital Sweepstakes fame, in 1933. His family presented it to Dublin County Council in 1969.


    http://dunlaoghairec...=1383&start=275

    There are pictures of them here. They don't look like much, granted, but they were a unique part of our built heritage.


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    #2
    olly_mac
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭olly_mac


    I think that the removal of these structures was an act of cultural vandalism, but that is my personal opinion. Did they at least attempt to preserve them 'By Record', i.e. photographs, plans etc.?

    Unfortunately, I believe that structures post 1700 do not have a good chance of getting protected status. Interestingly enough, I read something about these beehive shelters in the Irish Times, sometime last year. It was in the 'From the Archives' column, on the crossword page. Maybe worth looking up?


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    #3
    Mr. Presentable
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,496 ✭✭✭Mr. Presentable


    If they were never used, and given their recent and crude construction, they would be of no historical value, in my opinion.

    Historical value for preservation is very subjective. There needs to be a balance between cost, safety, and actual significance.

    If they'd been used during a bombing you could argue significance.
    They were clearly unsafe, so a cost would have been required to make them safe. That cost would come out of the park's budget for something else. On balance, while I deplore the loss of anything historical, we can't afford to keep everything


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    #4
    slowburner
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Hey all, I was wondering if you could help me with a query?

    My partner has been in contact with the Dun Laoghaire - Rathdown County Council in relation to bee-hive bomb shelters that stood, until recently, in Cabinteely Park, D18. These were small little constructions, each barely fitting a couple of people at any one time, however we would have considered them a unique part of our heritage. We visited the park the other day for the first time in a long time and discovered them to be gone. Himself contacted the Co. Council to enquire about them, and this is what he got back -



    My question to you now is what do you consider to be of historical value? I certainly would have valued these constructions as such. Interestingly the DLR Council listed them as being of historical value in their 'Did You Know. Celebrating Forgotten Aspects of our Local Heritage' book. I do intend on publicising this further. I would just like to gauge your thoughts and opinions.

    Here is what the 'Did You Know' book states in relation to these constructions -


    http://dunlaoghairec...=1383&start=275

    There are pictures of them here. They don't look like much, granted, but they were a unique part of our built heritage.

    I'm sure the good people of the Industrial Heritage Association of Ireland would be interested in this, even if it is after the fact.
    Is it a uniquely Irish thing to wonder about the value of something, only when it is gone?

    ''Have you the hammer, Seán?'
    - 'I have, Michael.'
    'Where have you it?'
    - 'I have it losht.''


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    #5
    pedroeibar1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    slowburner wrote: »
    ''Have you the hammer, Seán?'
    - 'I have, Michael.'
    'Where have you it?'
    - 'I have it losht.''

    You have it losht?
    Yes, 'tis there where I left it, gone!


  • Options
    #6
    Fuzzy Clam
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭Fuzzy Clam


    There was a similar shelter in the grounds of All Saints Church in Blackrock. Not sure whether that still exists either.


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  • Options
    #7
    champ1
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭champ1


    There's one in the corner of my back garden .. not likely to be demolished any time soon.


  • Options
    #8
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Can't see pic in link.

    Playing devil's advocate:
    They are of no architectural significance. Not the prettiest things to look at.
    Cheaply built crumbly re-inforced concrete I would imagine? Unless they were maintained and/or fenced off, in these days of compo culture, little Johnny or Mary would be getting themselves hurt playing around them.
    We can't preserve every single structure in aspic.

    However if they were in good condition and wasn't in the way of anything, I don't see why they couldn't be left be.
    There were a lot more significant buildings and sites that were demolished during the Celtic Tiger without a whisper of protest.


  • Options
    #9
    champ1
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭champ1


    Agreed.
    Truth to tell, it's no more than a curiosity.
    We do however, occasionally show it off to visitors and it's surprising that so few people know what it is.
    I'm just registering the fact that exists. You'd never know who might be interested.
    Luckily, we didn't name any of our kids "Johnny" or "Mary". Our lot survived childhood relatively intact notwithstanding the article in the corner of the garden.

    S0494762.jpg


  • Options
    #10
    gobnaitolunacy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,073 ✭✭✭gobnaitolunacy


    Neat, like a mini version of a German 'winkelturm'.

    Spotted one of the EIRE coastal markers on hols one year, most of those should still be there, given their often remote locations.

    http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2458/3820325333_0b7b79555b.jpg


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