Mens Rights Thread

iptba · 11-04-2021 2:49am

(continued)

In 2107, the global financial behomoth Lehman Sisters collapsed in the wake of a US sovereign debt crisis. The firm was bailed out by the Chinese authorities. A joint US-Chinese regulatory investigation ensued (the two superpowers of course developed a constructive relationship after President Chelsea Clinton led the USA into a disastrous all-autonmous "casualty-free" war in 2039-2045). The investigation found massive regulatory breaches as well as deep problems embedded in the organizational culture - characterized by gossip, infighting, backstabbing, and one-up-womanship at the board level. Christiano Laguardia - the first male head of the IMF in over 100 years made a famous comment after reading the damning report - things would have been very different if the firm had been called Lehman Brothers.

A certain Irish University has a new female president (not Trinity). In her last job in a university in a different part of the world, this lady was involved in suing a colleague who blew the whistle on questionable admissions practices in the university. She also abolished the Science faculty. To call this vandalism is an insult to the historic Germanic tribes.

So, as more women rise to the top of society, expect the men in grey suits to be replaced by women in grey suits, but for little or no other change to happen; if men and women are truly equal, then why would it be otherwise?

But we must not say these things out loud - we must believe that men and women are equal and interchangeable, but that women are somehow, magically, better than men. For those who have not done so, it is time to take out 1984 and to start learning Doublespeak - quickly.

FBD refused to pay out on insurance claims until forced to do so by court of law...decision made under female CEO. Ulster Bank refused to deal with tracker mortgage scandal until very last moment....CEO female. Clery's Department Store shut down by D4 buyout vehicle leaving people working in store high and dry.....CEO of buyout company female. If these are examples of women being morally superior, I wouldn't like to be around when women start engaging in corruption and sharp practices.

Is there any evidence that women make materially different decision than men? I mean sure some nice HR policies etc but I don't see any women CEOs or organisation heads pushing through change on sustainable finance or green products or moving production away from places with bad human rights records.

Sherly Sandburg isn't exactly pushing for the sort of future that would be healthy to live in. She's as toxic as any pale stale male GOPer.

This article is very light on detail (as usual). Maybe fill in actual evidence of where the women named have made better decisions than men would have.

DW should realise that at post-graduate level in the western world (where things become a little more advanced and where more practical application to the real world is required) that males and females

(even in left-leaning surveys run by women) show no significant difference in attainment. The female advantage seems to disappear perhaps (and I am just supposing here)

once young men get a handle on their sex drives and sport becomes less of a factor and they become career minded. Conspicuous that somehow DW has stopped his research at undergraduate level - when things are more academic (and introductory in nature) and men perhaps less mature at that point than their female counterparts. For DW’s sake when I say “academic” I mean repetition of existing ideas (which DW is clearly very good at) and theoretical notions (that he excels at) but that are not yet applied in practice and most often are not workable in reality and exclude key facts in order to “prove” the proposition. Arm-chair economics should really stick to that or else do their research in more depth and risk unearthing something that might change their (academic) minds! Very poor populist notions in this article and clearly written with a sexist pre-disposition. I would suppose that if DW found something that contradicted his (academic) notion here he would simply ignore it. Hopefully, DW learns from this - but today’s left wing academics such as DE don’t think they have anything to learn unless it’s the same as what they already say they know. QED

iptba · 12-04-2021 12:06am

How to build a modern man: Helping boys to grow up happy

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/how-to-build-a-modern-man-helping-boys-to-grow-up-happy-1.4527180

Just one mention to the patriarchy (there are other possible interpretations for this than "patriarchy"):

It seems reasonable to suggest that the patriarchy has served men no better than it served women. Men are more likely to face physical violence than women. They are more likely to take their own lives or to end up in prison. And from the time they are little boys, they are subject to a whole other set of narrow, damaging stereotypes.

When I ask my son the same question about being a man in today’s
world, he starts by telling me a list of all the things he knows men
shouldn’t be. This list includes, but is not confined to, being
sexist, violent, bullying harassing or trolling anyone.

This is a 13-year-old. It's a bit sad that already he feels all these things he shouldn't be.

One female gender studies lecturer is quoted. But not as overtly biased as many Irish Times pieces.

CageWager · 12-04-2021 3:00pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/parenting/how-to-build-a-modern-man-helping-boys-to-grow-up-happy-1.4527180

Just one mention to the patriarchy (there are other possible interpretations for this than "patriarchy"):

This is a 13-year-old. It's a bit sad that already he feels all these things he shouldn't be.

One female gender studies lecturer is quoted. But not as overtly biased as many Irish Times pieces.

I eagerly await the “how to be a women” article from one of the Irish Times’ male writers.

iptba · 13-04-2021 1:48am

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags/items I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

I also threw in some other posts as I didn't want to post too much.

Metropolitan Police criticised over policing at Sarah Everard vigil in Clapham

Here's why women across India are sharing images of themselves in ripped jeans

An 89-year-old sharpshooter takes aim at India’s patriarchy

Sadiq Khan: "I’ve been calling for misogyny to be a hate crime”

Your washing machine is a feminist icon

TERFs

Groped and shown the kitchen - what it's like being a woman in rugby

Women Are Writing Themselves Back Into History on Wikipedia

#AthenaSwan
e.g.
https://twitter.com/Athena_SWAN/status/1377173142561452038?s=20
https://twitter.com/GMITOfficial/status/1377167206308450305?s=20

NUIG
https://twitter.com/ConallEducation/status/1371131019592658949
This appears to be about this motion with the students' union. A different version was eventually passed.

87% of Wikipedia's editors are men. It lacks diversity: experts
---
Didn't trend but I thought I would mention:

The Irish Times @IrishTimes
The Women's Podcast Big Night In is back for Season 3. Róisín Ingle will be joined by one of the six fabulous guests every fortnight. Have a look at the star-studded line-up and secure your ticket now.

Irish Independent:
Ireland’s top 30 women in tech for 2021

Ad on gender equality I got on my phone
European Investment Bank (i.e. paid by taxpayers)
"Gender equality is one of the founding values of the European Union. We strive to uphold those values."
https://www.eib.org/en/about/careers/diversity/index.htm

Joyce Fegan: Behind the airwaves – Why are women’s voices under-represented on radio? (Long, so I never read it)
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-40263545.html

Groups for men and women I came across:
Disabled Women Ireland (Not sure whether I had before or not)

iptba · 24-04-2021 2:04am

Irish Times headline:

"Andrea Gilligan: A kindly voice among the macho men of Newstalk"

I can't comment on the specifics of the article as I haven't read it so far, but I think it's unlikely the Irish Times would run with a headline like

"<Male presenter>: a kindly voice among the <negative adjective about women> women of <radio station>"

iptba · 27-04-2021 2:09am

One in five sex crimes reported to gardaí involves minors as victims and suspects
Proportion of women dying by homicide continues to fall, according to CSO report

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/one-in-five-sex-crimes-reported-to-garda%C3%AD-involves-minors-as-victims-and-suspects-1.4547873

Not the impression given by some NGOs who hype up "femicide".

The latest figures on homicide offences related to 2020. They showed majority of detected murders or manslaughters (74.2 per cent) involved a male victim and male suspect.

Just over 16 per cent involved a male on female homicide.

In total there were 32 male victims and six female victims of murder or manslaughter in Ireland in 2020.

The number of female victims of murder or manslaughter has fallen in each of the last three years, the CSO said.

KrustyUCC · 30-04-2021 1:40am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/helen-mcentee-interview-on-misogyny-seamus-woulfe-gardai-receiving-vaccines-and-becoming-fine-gael-leader-40247320.html

I wonder will her views change now she has her own son?

Grey Fox · 03-05-2021 3:48pm

Do you think men feeling shamed into hiding their erections in public is a men's rights issue? I would often get a boner on the bus/train when commuting to work, be very embarrassed and go to great lengths to conceal it... but lately I've been thinking feck it, its a natural thing and if anyone has a problem with it thats their issue. Any thoughts?

03-05-2021 5:14pm

Grey Fox wrote: »

Do you think men feeling shamed into hiding their erections in public is a men's rights issue? I would often get a boner on the bus/train when commuting to work, be very embarrassed and go to great lengths to conceal it... but lately I've been thinking feck it, its a natural thing and if anyone has a problem with it thats their issue. Any thoughts?

...... Ok.

03-05-2021 6:51pm

Grey Fox wrote: »

Do you think men feeling shamed into hiding their erections in public is a men's rights issue? I would often get a boner on the bus/train when commuting to work, be very embarrassed and go to great lengths to conceal it... but lately I've been thinking feck it, its a natural thing and if anyone has a problem with it thats their issue. Any thoughts?

Dunno about men feeling shamed over it... however, society has common rules about decency. The simple fact is any relaxation of those rules, would have many men rubbing themselves in public or something similar. The social rules might be over the top, but they're there to restrain behavior.

Although, then again, women have been gradually breaking most taboos about their own appearance/behavior in public, so I guess there's a case to be made about making it more acceptable. I still think it would be abused and just give ammunition to feminists/misandrists wanting to complain about men.

There's better things to fight over than erections in public.

Grey Fox · 03-05-2021 7:53pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Although, then again, women have been gradually breaking most taboos about their own appearance/behavior in public, so I guess there's a case to be made about making it more acceptable. I still think it would be abused and just give ammunition to feminists/misandrists wanting to complain about men.
.

Its a bit like women being traditionally shamed for having hair under their arms. In both cases people are being made to feel embarrassed about a natural bodily process. I think its a shame and hope the culture can develop to be more mature about such things.

03-05-2021 9:56pm

Grey Fox wrote: »

Its a bit like women being traditionally shamed for having hair under their arms. In both cases people are being made to feel embarrassed about a natural bodily process. I think its a shame and hope the culture can develop to be more mature about such things.

When were women shamed for having hair under their armpits? I can recall many women throughout my life who had hair there and weren't afraid to show it.

It's certainly not considered attractive in many cultures and for many men.. but shamed for it? Hardly. Have you been to France, Italy, etc. cause women with hairy armpits is extremely common there.

There is a difference between what is considered attractive, and being shamed for something.

As for culture evolving... be careful what you wish for. I've noticed this a lot from people who want to change society. They look at the possible change, and don't think what will come afterwards. Nothing stops with the initial change. Everything expands into something else.. and there are often unforeseen consequences (although many other consequences could be guessed at, if people really cared).

Grey Fox · 03-05-2021 10:53pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

When were women shamed for having hair under their armpits? I can recall many women throughout my life who had hair there and weren't afraid to show it.

There is definitely social pressure for women not to have hairy pits. We've been conditioned to think its gross.

the_pen_turner · 03-05-2021 11:52pm

seems like a surefast way to end up on a sex offenders list.

99nsr125 · 04-05-2021 1:54am

Grey Fox wrote: »

There is definitely social pressure for women not to have hairy pits. We've been conditioned to think its gross.

That's because it is

Hairy bodies are related to testosterone / estrogen balance and there's a hardwiring there from an evolutionary perspective. It's not the hair per say, it's if there is copious amounts

Pawwed Rig · 04-05-2021 5:12am

99nsr125 wrote: »

That's because it is

Hairy bodies are related to testosterone / estrogen balance and there's a hardwiring there from an evolutionary perspective. It's not the hair per say, it's if there is copious amounts

If it was the norm for women to not shave bodily hair men wouldn't think twice about it.

04-05-2021 10:27am

Grey Fox wrote: »

There is definitely social pressure for women not to have hairy pits. We've been conditioned to think its gross.

For young women, sure. However, it's still extremely common to find women in their early 30's and 40's, with hairy armpits, especially within certain cultures compared to others. It's a standard of beauty...

You really think it stands at the same level as a guy showing an erection in a public place, such as on the bus?

Context, people.

iptba · 04-05-2021 1:25pm

Not particularly important but they are pretty much admitting if you were female, it was an advantage this year.

News from the National Academy of Sciences
April 26, 2021

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

National Academy of Sciences Elects New Members — Including a Record Number of Women — and International Members
WASHINGTON — The National Academy of Sciences announced today the election of 120 members — 59 of whom are women, the most elected in a single year — and 30 international members in recognition of their distinguished and continuing achievements in original research.

“The historic number of women elected this year reflects the critical contributions that they are making in many fields of science, as well as a concerted effort by our Academy to recognize those contributions and the essential value of increasing diversity in our ranks,” said National Academy of Sciences President Marcia McNutt. “I am pleased to welcome all of our new members, and I look forward to engaging with them in the work of the National Academies.”

http://www.nasonline.org/news-and-multimedia/news/2021-nas-election.html

Grey Fox · 04-05-2021 6:08pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

For young women, sure. However, it's still extremely common to find women in their early 30's and 40's, with hairy armpits, especially within certain cultures compared to others. It's a standard of beauty...

In Ireland it most definitely is not common. I'm not sure about other cultures.

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You really think it stands at the same level as a guy showing an erection in a public place, such as on the bus? .

I'm obviously not talking about showing the penis in public, more the outline of it through clothes etc. I think both scenarios would get the same reaction from onlookers, i.e. shock, and the identification of the person as some sort of freak.

Pawwed Rig · 04-05-2021 7:04pm

Grey Fox wrote: »

I think both scenarios would get the same reaction from onlookers, i.e. shock, and the identification of the person as some sort of freak.

Well no. One might cause a bit of comment by teenagers whispering and giggling to each other while the other will have people moving to a different part of the train and ushering their kids away.

There are real issues with respect to men's rights but I don't think this is one of them and is certainly not the hill to die on.

04-05-2021 7:11pm

Grey Fox wrote: »

In Ireland it most definitely is not common. I'm not sure about other cultures.

As I said, its common enough in France, Italy and Spain. Very common in Asia. Among younger women too, although shaven armpits are typically considered sexy/attractive. I had a French girlfriend, and she only shaved her armpits when she was wearing a particular type of dress.. any other time it was an afterthought and something that wasn't necessary.

Since there is little reaction from people to hair under the armpits. It's certainly not something people would think attractive, but it won't be considered any kind of break in accepted social behavior.

I'm obviously not talking about showing the penis in public, more the outline of it through clothes etc. I think both scenarios would get the same reaction from onlookers, i.e. shock, and the identification of the person as some sort of freak.

You really think that a woman with hairy armpits would get the same reaction as the shape of a boner in a mans pants?

I don't see any common aspect to it. In any case, anything I add will be a repeat of what I said before.. you haven't added anything new to discuss.

iptba · 07-05-2021 11:39pm

Committee hears 'significant targeting of women online'

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0505/1214010-women-online-harassment/

https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1038632263481737216?s=20
https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1038632265272705025?s=20

Regarding online harassment
http://www.fighting4fair.com/uncategorized/regarding-online-harassment/

iptba · 08-05-2021 2:19am

From the Irish Independent daily digest. I haven't read it myself so far, but there have been few if any similar articles about men

Workforce women
Women, especially mothers and women of colour, have been crushed by the pandemic. Many have been forced into full-time, unpaid roles in childcare, teaching and eldercare, all the while continuing to manage their full-time, paid work. Others have been forced out of the workforce.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2021/5/7/do-woker-workplaces-await-mothers-who-quit-jobs-due-to-pandemic

iptba · 08-05-2021 2:20am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0505/1214010-women-online-harassment/

https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1038632263481737216?s=20
https://twitter.com/CathyYoung63/status/1038632265272705025?s=20

Regarding online harassment
http://www.fighting4fair.com/uncategorized/regarding-online-harassment/

Pay-walled:

Vile abuse from strangers and from within your own party – is it any wonder there's no women in politics?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/vile-abuse-from-strangers-and-from-within-your-own-party-is-it-any-wonder-theres-no-women-in-politics-40399048.html

iptba · 14-05-2021 3:42pm

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags/items I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

I also threw in some other posts as I didn't want to post too much.

#JusticeForJohnnyDepp

#WhyNotHer
https://www.canva.com/design/DAEbw8lw1Fw/UPHCRKRV1bKHLm4qz4W1SQ/view?utm_content=DAEbw8lw1Fw&utm_campaign=designshare&utm_medium=link&utm_source=sharebutton

Power of Women: Maya Rudolph, Julia Louis-Dreyfus & more cover Variety
Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Sofía Vergara, Mindy Kaling, Michaela Coel, Maya Rudolph, and Kate McKinnon cover Variety's "Power of Women" issue, honoring six creative leaders in comedy.

Didn't trend but I thought I would mention:

Sponsored by Trócaire
'What I've learned about the power of female leadership in times of crisis'
https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2021/0308/1201610-what-ive-learned-about-female-leadership-in-times-of-crisis/

The gender play gap: why aren't more women playing sport?
https://www.rte.ie/brainstorm/2017/1129/923613-the-gender-play-gap-why-arent-more-women-playing-sport/
[Not a new article but is in the current Brainstorm top 10 most read articles on the RTE.ie website]
Comment: I imagine if one looked at dance, a lot more women than men would be involved.

https://twitter.com/NREC_Office/status/1392872235656962053?s=20

Groups for men and women I came across:
Global Women's Strike
Irish Federation of University Women
Irish Women Lawyers Association
Mens Voices
Mná na hÉireann
Monthly Cycles
National Collective of Community Based Women's Networks
National Traveller Women's Forum
National Women's Council of Ireland
Soroptimist International Republic of Ireland
Stop segregation of men
Transgender Equality Network of Ireland
UCD Women Graduates Association
Women for Election
Women in Film and Television
Women in Technology and Science
Women on Air
#WorkEqual
30% Club Ireland

iptba · 14-05-2021 5:24pm

Near FM are running their next online interactive media skills training for women who want to learn skills in broadcasting. This course is limited to 12 places and will be led by women for women only.

http://nearfm.ie/we-need-more-women-on-air/

iptba · 23-05-2021 2:33am

Female high school teacher storms into boys' changing room and accuses students of being 'misogynistic' for celebrating a sporting victory
Students say teacher at West Australian school barged into male change rooms
The teacher accused boy's of being 'misogynistic' after celebrating soccer win
The school's principal said he addressed the behaviour with the teacher

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9580927/Female-high-school-teacher-storms-boys-change-room-accuses-students-misogynistic.html

A female teacher stormed a boys change room and berated students as 'misogynistic' for celebrating a sporting victory too loudly.

The Year 10 and 11 students at Como Secondary College in Perth were celebrating after an indoor soccer match before their afternoon classes on Monday when the teacher stormed the change room.

The teacher yelled that the students sounded like 'a bunch of testosterone-fueled misogynistic boys', a Year 11 student who was present told The West Australian.

The student said he and his friends were stunned by the teacher's actions because they were not making any comments about women.

According to the student, the group was cheering their goalkeeper who did not let any goals through.

'We were all sort of offended by the fact she called us misogynistic even though we hadn't done anything like that. It's like something that 1 per cent of us do is now something that all of us do,' he said.

I saw this post somewhere about some of the specifics of the school itself:

So I read the article and holy **** that is my old high school. I can confirm the locker rooms are in an entirely separate building and far away from classrooms. You could blast an air horn in them and I doubt you could hear it from outside the building. There is no way the students could make enough noise to disrupt other classes.

Also the teachers excuse that she was assisting a disabled student to the toilets at the time is total BS as there are no toilets in the locker rooms, only showers. And there are no toilets near them either.

py2006 · 23-05-2021 3:02pm

Not a lot of mention of a female adult bursting into a changing room of underage boys who could be in a state of undress etc.

99nsr125 · 23-05-2021 3:04pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9580927/Female-high-school-teacher-storms-boys-change-room-accuses-students-misogynistic.html

I saw this post somewhere about some of the specifics of the school itself:

Was looking for information on Coercive Control and the highest result was womens aid.

Their description constantly used "he" to describe the absuer.

I engaged in their chat and asked them to change it. If they don't I will lodge a complaint. I would appreciate help on where to lodge such a complaint so as to be most effective.

iptba · 23-05-2021 5:57pm

99nsr125 wrote: »

Was looking for information on Coercive Control and the highest result was womens aid.

Their description constantly used "he" to describe the absuer.

I engaged in their chat and asked them to change it. If they don't I will lodge a complaint. I would appreciate help on where to lodge such a complaint so as to be most effective.

As well as ignoring male victims, using it in this way also ignores female victims in lesbian relationships.

Mens Rights Thread

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